Cain vs Dos Santos

[Testicle]

Originally Posted by Next Big Thing Let's wait and see what the ratings say.

Wait to see the ratings of the next couple shows on fox. I'm sure this show did huge numbers, but what will follow.

[KillerWolf]

Originally Posted by Next Big Thing Let's wait and see what the ratings say.

wrong. lets wait and see what the ratings say the NEXT TIME they do a UFC on Fox.

[Jura]

Heavyweight and Light Heavyweight titles have and are going to change frequently.

[Shisen Kopf]

Dude doesnt Curling get like huge fucking ratings up there?

[KillerWolf]

Originally Posted by Testicle If you think that went well you know nothing about TV. Remember tonight was not for you, hardcore MMA fan, tonight was for everyone else.

yes. BUT, make no mistake, this turd was no better for us hardcore fans than it would have been for a first time viewer. i'm a hardcore fan. and 25 minutes in, i was thinking, "when are they going to fight?" just like any first time viewer. and on top of that, i was wondering wtf was happening with the Ben Henderson/Clay Guida fight the whole time. this shit was an embarassment.

[Mr. C]

Originally Posted by The Mask dana looked gutted lol

That's what he gets for booking only one fight that could very well, and did, end in the 1st round for an entire hour. What harm would it have done to air both Henderson/Guida and Velasquez/Dos Santos on FOX? Even if it was FOX who only wanted to show the main event, Henderson/Guida should've been aired. I'm sure Dana could've had more say in airing it.

[KillerWolf]

Originally Posted by Jura Heavyweight and Light Heavyweight titles have and are going to change frequently.

speaking of which - IMO, the UFC Heavyweigh Title is NOT the most prestigious title in the UFC, dispite the fact they kept selling it as such all night. but i think that most UFC fans are too smart to buy into that. the most prestigious title would tend to be that of the most stacked division, which IMO would put Lightweight and Light Heavyweight as the more prestegious titles.

[Mr. C]

Also, I love how Brock Lesnar went on and on about Velasquez winning, when he still can't even pronounce his name right, from the time the fight was announced until right before the fight. I felt like this fight could've easily went either way, but Lesnar sure didn't. Guess he felt like he'd look better if Velasquez had put a beating on Dos Santos like he did Lesnar.

[Vastardikai]

I can honestly say that Ubereem will probably beat Dos Santos. Mostly because Dos Santos was doing precisely dick to check Velasquez's leg kicks. That's going to be a bad situation should Ubereem beat Lesnar.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

I don't get why people think this is going to hurt UFC of FOX.

Yeah, it was a super short fight, shit happens. In the future, the shows on Fox are going to have more fights on the card, so it's not going to be "1 big fight." Plus, this wasn't a boxing ppv. This was on tv, for free. It's not like people just paid a shit ton of money to watch that fight. Yeah, this fight will create some naysayers. But then come the next show or two, when they end up having a bad ass fight, they'll get people back.

[Crimson]

lol @ people thinking its the end of MMA. It's here to stay and it will do good. Not the perfect fight but it'll bounce back,you wont see bullshit decisions like boxing

[KillerWolf]

Originally Posted by What Would Kevin Do? I don't get why people think this is going to hurt UFC of FOX. Yeah, it was a super short fight, shit happens. In the future, the shows on Fox are going to have more fights on the card, so it's not going to be "1 big fight." Plus, this wasn't a boxing ppv. This was on tv, for free. It's not like people just paid a shit ton of money to watch that fight. Yeah, this fight will create some naysayers. But then come the next show or two, when they end up having a bad ass fight, they'll get people back.

what people are saying is that this whole [stupid] production was supposed to be (and clearly was) an attempt to draw in new fans. 65 seconds of action on for an hour long program will likely leave a bad taste in alot of peoples mouths, and they may not bother to tune in next time. Us hardcore fans probably will tune in hoping for a more UFC-ish production. people for whom this was their first time watching MMA - they might just go ahead and watch CSI or the College Game or whatever.

[Pintint]

Originally Posted by Vastardikai I can honestly say that Ubereem will probably beat Dos Santos. Mostly because Dos Santos was doing precisely dick to check Velasquez's leg kicks. That's going to be a bad situation should Ubereem beat Lesnar.

I don't think Overeem is going to beat Lesnar. People are dismissing Lesnar too quickly and too easily. If you read the news, apparently Lesnar has been fighting sick for a while and it seems now he has "gotten clean" of his health problems.

That said, it doesn't mean his stand up is automatically great. It's not, Lesnar's not a guy who should fight on his feet against good strikers like Cain or JDS. Lesnar's strength is his wrestling and physical dominance. From what I have seen from Overeem, I haven't seen him show anything that shows him capable of out wrestling Lesnar.

I think once (if) Brock gets him off his feet, or Overeem takes Lesnar off his, and it goes to the ground, then Brock will beat him. People are writing off Lesnar too easily after his last fight and seem to rate Overeem too highly. I feel this is a mistake.

I mean, look at Overeem's performance here,

http://youtu.be/shrXeEaHh_w

Hardly seems like a person who would be able to beat Lesnar.

I'd put my money on Lesnar.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Originally Posted by KillerWolf what people are saying is that this whole [stupid] production was supposed to be (and clearly was) an attempt to draw in new fans. 65 seconds of action on for an hour long program will likely leave a bad taste in alot of peoples mouths, and they may not bother to tune in next time. Us hardcore fans probably will tune in hoping for a more UFC-ish production. people for whom this was their first time watching MMA - they might just go ahead and watch CSI or the College Game or whatever.

I get what you're saying, and that will probably be the case for some new people. However, if someone was interested enough to watch this, they're probably not going to totally write it off. Yeah, if someone normally watches CSI, and has no interest in combat sports, then they might not tune back in. But if they're going after boxing fans, football fans, etc, they might be more willing to give it a second chance because these things happen. Furthermore, one bad fight can be easily made up for by one "holy shit" fight. All they need is one good fight for people to say "Hey, did you see that fight, holy shit!" And that'll probably push some people who "wrote it off" to give it a second chance.

With that said though, I do hope Fox is kicking themselves for only airing one fight.

Anyway, just to clear up any confusion, I'm not really disagreeing with you that the 35 minuted lead up into a 1 minute fight will drive some people away. I get what you're saying, and it's a valid point. I just don't buy into the idea that this is going to damn UFC on FOX, which is what some people seem to think, or that last night will keep UFC from getting new fans, which I highly doubt.

[Crimson]

Originally Posted by KillerWolf what people are saying is that this whole [stupid] production was supposed to be (and clearly was) an attempt to draw in new fans. 65 seconds of action on for an hour long program will likely leave a bad taste in alot of peoples mouths, and they may not bother to tune in next time. Us hardcore fans probably will tune in hoping for a more UFC-ish production. people for whom this was their first time watching MMA - they might just go ahead and watch CSI or the College Game or whatever.

Might be true for a select few..but if their smart they should know sports are unpredictable..as is mma. And there will be short ko's and long wars, nature of the beast

[What Would Kevin Do?]

The other problem is, UFC has to be careful what they air on TV. Hell, they could get amazing ratings if they aired Jones vs Evans on FOX, but how much money would they lose from the ppv buys? I'd be curious to see how much of a loss they take for airing something free on tv, versus the ppvs.

[Next Big Thing]

Originally Posted by Pintint I don't think Overeem is going to beat Lesnar. People are dismissing Lesnar too quickly and too easily. If you read the news, apparently Lesnar has been fighting sick for a while and it seems now he has "gotten clean" of his health problems. That said, it doesn't mean his stand up is automatically great. It's not, Lesnar's not a guy who should fight on his feet against good strikers like Cain or JDS. Lesnar's strength is his wrestling and physical dominance. From what I have seen from Overeem, I haven't seen him show anything that shows him capable of out wrestling Lesnar. I think once (if) Brock gets him off his feet, or Overeem takes Lesnar off his, and it goes to the ground, then Brock will beat him. People are writing off Lesnar too easily after his last fight and seem to rate Overeem too highly. I feel this is a mistake. I mean, look at Overeem's performance here, http://youtu.be/shrXeEaHh_w Hardly seems like a person who would be able to beat Lesnar. I'd put my money on Lesnar.

Be honest, do you really follow this sport?

Brock's been fighting sick for awhile? What? After each incident of diverticulitis, Brock had surgery, healed up and came back. He wasn't fighting anyone while he was sick. Just as you say he's "gotten clean" now, he had "gotten clean" after each incident before too.

Then you say Brock doesn't do well against good strikers while being obviously ignorant to the fact that Alistair won the K-1 Grand Prix, which involves... striking.

Why would you even talk about the fight going to the ground and wrestling being the deciding factor in Lesnar's favor and then show a video from a kickboxing match 2 years ago as indicative of Overeem's abilities in MMA or chances against Brock?

Besides, Badr Hari is one of the best kick boxers in the world. Brock doesn't come close to him or Alistair in the stand up. BUT, even if that fight was supposed to be an example of something, why wouldn't you show the fight from the year before when Alistair knocked Badr Hari out?

Not saying Brock can't or won't get it to ground and beat him that way, but I haven't read an analysis of that fight more off base than yours. If you knew anything about the sport, you would have shown the fight between Alistair and Werdum as an example of Overeem's weaknesses on the ground, but even that would have been a stretch because Brock doesn't have Werdum's submission skills. At least talk about Overeem's cardio or something.

[Next Big Thing]

Originally Posted by KillerWolf what people are saying is that this whole [stupid] production was supposed to be (and clearly was) an attempt to draw in new fans. 65 seconds of action on for an hour long program will likely leave a bad taste in alot of peoples mouths, and they may not bother to tune in next time. Us hardcore fans probably will tune in hoping for a more UFC-ish production. people for whom this was their first time watching MMA - they might just go ahead and watch CSI or the College Game or whatever.

Mike Tyson knocking guys out in 35 seconds didn't stop millions of people from spending $45 on a Saturday night on his PPVs, so why would someone be pissed off that they saw a championship fight end in a KO on free t.v.?

Think about how the idiots at these events always boo during a good extended grappling session or when a guy is trying to actually box instead of brawl, but cheer when they see a knockout. Seeing someone get knocked out resonates with people. Those are the casual fans who the UFC was trying to reach and those fans probably aren't complaining that after 65 seconds they got to go back to CSI or the Stanford game.

[SuperSlim]

Originally Posted by Next Big Thing Be honest, do you really follow this sport? Brock's been fighting sick for awhile? What? After each incident of diverticulitis, Brock had surgery, healed up and came back. He wasn't fighting anyone while he was sick. Just as you say he's "gotten clean" now, he had "gotten clean" after each incident before too. Then you say Brock doesn't do well against good strikers while being obviously ignorant to the fact that Alistair won the K-1 Grand Prix, which involves... striking. Why would you even talk about the fight going to the ground and wrestling being the deciding factor in Lesnar's favor and then show a video from a kickboxing match 2 years ago as indicative of Overeem's abilities in MMA or chances against Brock? Besides, Badr Hari is one of the best kick boxers in the world. Brock doesn't come close to him or Alistair in the stand up. BUT, even if that fight was supposed to be an example of something, why wouldn't you show the fight from the year before when Alistair knocked Badr Hari out? Not saying Brock can't or won't get it to ground and beat him that way, but I haven't read an analysis of that fight more off base than yours. If you knew anything about the sport, you would have shown the fight between Alistair and Werdum as an example of Overeem's weaknesses on the ground, but even that would have been a stretch because Brock doesn't have Werdum's submission skills. At least talk about Overeem's cardio or something.

I was thinking the same thing. Although Brock won't have the submissions of Werdum to trap Overeem... Brock has shown that if the other guy isn't a very good wrestler he can hold him down. Cain was real good so as soon as he got Cain down Cain was able to get back up. Overeem wouldn't even dare to get down with Werdum. But Overeem has submissions and could potentially lure Brock into taking the fight down and lock something.

But the biggest question is... can Overeem keep up with Brock. Brock is a freak athlete. Overeem has little cardio.

[Stickman]

Does fox usually do different things in various regions? Guida/henderson opened the night after the main event they showed a prelim. So i saw three fights and some of you oly got 1? Wtf fox?

[Crimson]

Really? Where the heck do you live

[Stickman]

Vancouver

[Crimson]

Don't like Dana's comments on how the fans that complained need to shut up and that we coulda seen the Ben/Guida fight it on facebook. He's right but this was the whole point of trying to lure a new fan base on free tv. By putting on decent fights. And what's wrong with people wanting more?

He came off bitter which im sure he was, seeing as he said it almost immediatley after the fight

[Jura]

"For anyone to [expletive] about this fight because they didn't get to see [this fight or] that fight ... shut up! You should've bought tickets if you wanted to see all the fights," White said. "And you don't like to watch them on Facebook? Seriously, shut up."

"Every weirdo comes from everywhere, [talking] about how bad fighting is and joining the 'Coalition of I Have Nothing Better To Do With My Life.''" said White. "These are the stories we have to tell to mainstream America. Because most of us in this room live in this bubble called MMA. It's a world of triangle chokes and arm bars, all the [expletive] people have never heard of. They don't understand it. They don't know what it is. We have to ease people into this, so that's what we did tonight."

[Testicle]

Ha.

[Vastardikai]

On one hand, Dana has done a great good to make MMA legit.

On the other hand, he doesn't help his case many times when he opens his mouth.

[RP]

The thing that will eventually happen is that he will either learn to carry himself more professionally, or he will be pushed out of the UFC. Fox is way more important to the Fertittas than Dana White is. He only owns 9% and probably could be forced to sell. If Fox doesn't like him as the face and the mouth peice of the sport and they threaten to pull the product unless he's dealt with, he'll get dealt with. He probably doesn't realize this. He's in big business now. Anyone can do ppv. He's in network now. He can and will probably be silenced.

[Next Big Thing]

I think Dana could definitely tone it down a little but even if he doesn't I think he will still be fine. Promoters have always been a huge part of combat sports. From Don King to even Vince McMahon. Those guys act as the glue and are the one constant in those worlds as fighters come and go. Part of the reason why boxing has gone to shit is because Don King got pushed out and the boxers took over promoting or there's a boring old fuck like Bob Arum running things. So now, there's no one to hype up younger boxing stars or make marquee matches happen when they need to. WWE's business turned around once Vince took a more prominent role as a character and became one of the faces for the company in the mid 90's.

I don't agree that anyone can do PPV either. TNA can't do PPV. WCW had Ted Turner and later AOL behind them and they couldn't do PPV. Affliction had Mark Cuban and Donald Trump backing them and they flopped. Sweaty fat fuck Scott Coker had CBS and Showtime and he flopped. Pride was the best thing in MMA and UFC bought them. He's needed and I feel like he was a big reason for the Fox deal taking place. Not every fighter is someone you can send on the press circuit so would you rather have selling fights, Dana White or Lorenzo Fertita? They know how he is and wouldn't have done the deal if they thought he'd be a problem or didn't like him.

Plus this is Fox we're talking about. Seth MacFarlane isn't on the chopping block after Family Guy does a song and dance about old man on boy neighbor sex or abortion so I don't see the brash promoter of a sport like MMA getting pushed out.

[RP]

Anyone can do ppv. There's all kinds of stupid shit on ppv. Whether people will watch is different.

[Iop]

Ne1 think that Overeem Vs Lesnar in a debate on the economy would be more entertaining than their fight?

[MoFo]

Originally Posted by Next Big Thing Mike Tyson knocking guys out in 35 seconds didn't stop millions of people from spending $45 on a Saturday night on his PPVs, so why would someone be pissed off that they saw a championship fight end in a KO on free t.v.? Think about how the idiots at these events always boo during a good extended grappling session or when a guy is trying to actually box instead of brawl, but cheer when they see a knockout. Seeing someone get knocked out resonates with people. Those are the casual fans who the UFC was trying to reach and those fans probably aren't complaining that after 65 seconds they got to go back to CSI or the Stanford game.

This.

[Crimson]

Yeah Dana isnt going anywhere..but his comments were retarded

[Reavant]

Originally Posted by KillerWolf speaking of which - IMO, the UFC Heavyweigh Title is NOT the most prestigious title in the UFC, dispite the fact they kept selling it as such all night. but i think that most UFC fans are too smart to buy into that. the most prestigious title would tend to be that of the most stacked division, which IMO would put Lightweight and Light Heavyweight as the more prestegious titles.

The heavyweight title is the most prestigious title in combat sports. Whether its the best in the UFC is irrelevant. Them going with that fight was to bring in the mainstream, not the hardcore.

[KillerWolf]

Originally Posted by Reavant The heavyweight title is the most prestigious title in combat sports. Whether its the best in the UFC is irrelevant. Them going with that fight was to bring in the mainstream, not the hardcore.

i know that that used to be the case. i'm not sure if that is still necessarilly true. who is the heavyweight champ in boxing? i have no idea, and i, nor most people could pick his name or face out of a line up.

however, i do know who Manny Pacquiao is, and i know that he is not a heavyweight. i know who Floyd Maywether is -- not a heavywieght.

more "casual" or "non-fans" of UFC and MMA, i'm guessing, have heard of GSP, Anderson Silva, Tito Ortiz, and Chuck Liddell than have heard of Cain Valasquez or Junior Dos Santos.

my point being that the prestige of the Heavyweight Title has always been a function of fame, and connection between the Heavyweight Title and fame is no longer an absolute. so, IMO, the philosophy that they were subscribing to in order to attract new viewers and hype up the heavyweight title fight (and in fact, the position that you appear to hold regarding the Heavyweight belt) is an outdated one.

having said all that, i realize that they likely employed this gimmick to hype the fight since, as you said, the whole production was aimed at the mainstream. but, had this fight been a part of a UFC PPV, i doubt they would have made the statements about the Heavyweight Title holding more prestige than any other UFC title.

[Reavant]

Originally Posted by KillerWolf i know that that used to be the case. i'm not sure if that is still necessarilly true. who is the heavyweight champ in boxing? i have no idea, and i, nor most people could pick his name or face out of a line up. however, i do know who Manny Pacquiao is, and i know that he is not a heavyweight. i know who Floyd Maywether is -- not a heavywieght. more "casual" or "non-fans" of UFC and MMA, i'm guessing, have heard of GSP, Anderson Silva, Tito Ortiz, and Chuck Liddell than have heard of Cain Valasquez or Junior Dos Santos. my point being that the prestige of the Heavyweight Title has always been a function of fame, and connection between the Heavyweight Title and fame is no longer an absolute. so, IMO, the philosophy that they were subscribing to in order to attract new viewers and hype up the heavyweight title fight (and in fact, the position that you appear to hold regarding the Heavyweight belt) is an outdated one. having said all that, i realize that they likely employed this gimmick to hype the fight since, as you said, the whole production was aimed at the mainstream. but, had this fight been a part of a UFC PPV, i doubt they would have made the statements about the Heavyweight Title holding more prestige than any other UFC title.

again, your still coming from a point of being a hardcore.

Theres plenty of random people out there who couldnt tell you who manny pacquiao is or tell you what class hes in (outside of maybe knowing hes a boxer) and Im sure theres just as many who dont know GSP.

The current prestige of the heavyweight belt may not be there, but historical still is. Everyone knows who muhammed ali is. Anyone older than id say 35 or 40 knows about the big heavyweight championship fights that used to be on free TV and what a big deal they were. The whole name of HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP still resonates with the public.

Even in professional wrestling, the pinnacle of the sport is being the "world heavyweight champion"

Again the average person may not know that the heavyweight title in the UFC is not the most prestigious. You and me do, but the average fan hears heavyweight title fight for free, and they check it out.

[Reavant]

and the reason noone could tell you who the boxing heavyweight champ is, is because theres two of them, their brothers, they wont fight, and they are not exciting. (klitschko brothers)

how big was boxing when there were guys like tyson running around

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Heavyweight boxing used to be the biggest sport in the world for most of the 20th century. It probably still would be if there were top notch American and British challengers. UFC would probably be minted if they came up with a dominant American heavyweight, that's what boxing is crying out for (as well as being run properly, obviously).

[RP]

I think Lesnar has a long way to go before he's dominate. When he gets punched in the face, things start to fall apart for him.

[RP]

I say America should get behind Roy Nelson. Makes sense.

[Jura]

8.8 Million Viewers Indicate the Sky’s the Limit for UFC on Fox MMAWeekly.com The success of the first ever UFC on Fox show continues to grow with the ratings returns in, and the fighters in the sport are just as excited as UFC and Fox officials. In a ratings release on Sunday, the UFC on Fox averaged 5.7 million viewers for the entirety of the one-hour broadcast that aired during the 9 to 10 p.m. ET time slot. According to Nielsen Ratings sent to MMAWeekly.com, the 15-minute averages steadily increased as the show got closer to the actual fight, which didn’t kick off until after 9:30 p.m. ET. Starting at 9 p.m. ET, the UFC on Fox broadcast pulled in 5.3 million viewers and then jumped to 5.5 million viewers during the 9:15 to 9:30 time slot. The real jump happened during the fight between Cain Velasquez and Junior Dos Santos. The peak hit at 8.8 million viewers during the fight, the highest ever for any mixed martial arts fight in television history, surpassing the numbers reached during the EliteXC broadcast featuring Kimbo Slice against James Thompson. The overall rating during the 9:30 to 9:45 p.m. time period averaged 7.1 million viewers. The decrease was due to the amount of fans that changed the channel after the heavyweight title fight ended with the viewership going to 5.9 million within three minutes of the fight’s conclusion. “It’s awesome. I think it’s a matter of time before mixed martial arts and the UFC is the biggest sport and the biggest organization in the world,” said Urijah Faber about the debut Fox show. According to a release from Fox on Thursday, another half-million viewers were added to the overall broadcast courtesy of the show’s airing on Fox Deportes. FoxSports.com also saw their biggest numbers outside of a Super Bowl when showcasing the UFC on Fox prelims on the internet. The two-hour UFC on Fox pre-game show on Fuel TV was the highest rated program on the network for all of 2011, and their largest share in the coveted 18-49 male demographic as well. UFC on Fox 1 was just the starting point to a seven-year deal that actually doesn’t begin until January 2012. For some fighters who have been around MMA for several years, it’s a very exciting time to see the sport explode on a whole new level. “I think the game is just starting,” said Wanderlei Silva on Thursday. “We just had our first event on Fox, the transition for the sport right now, and it’s just time before this sport is No. 1 in the world.” Dan Henderson, who fights in this weekend’s main event fight at UFC 139, marks the UFC on Fox debut as another placeholder in MMA history. “It’s been a long time coming,” said Henderson. “The UFC getting on Spike TV was one big step, and with them getting a deal with Fox, it’s another huge step for the sport.” The second Fox show is rumored to take place in January 2012, and if the numbers from the debut show are any indication, the sky’s the limit for the future. “I think the second show on Fox will be even bigger for the UFC,” middleweight Cung Le stated at the UFC 139 pre-fight press conference. Expectations are definitely high that Le is right on the money with his prediction.