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Old 04-23-2012, 07:00 PM   #1
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Would You: Put Brock Lesnar in the UFC Hall of Fame?
interesting enough article from BJPenn.com

Quote:
A lot has been said recently of Brock Lesnar’s (5-3) impact on mixed martial arts. Some argue that his foray into combat sports was nothing more than a flash in the pan and that his “all sizzle – no steak” legacy is inconsequential, relegating Lesnar to little more than a footnote in the history of the Ultimate Fighting Championship. These claims are fueled by Lesnar’s inability to take a punch well, his disappointing downfall after only eight professional fights, and a deep seeded hatred for anything pro wrestling. Despite all of that, I contend that not only was Brock Lesnar a force to be reckoned with inside of and outside the cage, but that he is worthy of an induction of the UFC’s Hall of Fame.

First off, consider Lesnar’s uncanny ability to move the needle. The former professional wrestler possessed an unequaled drawing power evidenced by his seven Octagon bouts selling somewhere in the neighborhood of 7 million pay-per-view buys. You don’t even need to look at the name of the PPV to know if he was fighting or not, the numbers clearly proclaimed his presence. Every fighter who fought on the same card as Lesnar benefited from the extra exposure garnered by the most polarizing figure in the sport’s recent history. The sound bytes, the media attention from ESPN, and the casual fan’s increased level of interest in the product Lesnar was part of is more than many fighters can say they have brought to Zuffa’s crown jewel.

Don’t mistake brevity for lack of importance. The Minnesota native accomplished in a handful of years what most fighters will never accomplish and the ones that do, spend a lifetime in its pursuit: a belt that is equal parts leather and gold and is one hundred percent proof positive that you are the best in the world. Lesnar’s accomplishments are what solidify the arguments above. As he rose to stardom, he beat the best the UFC could throw at him in a weight division it all but owned. And if it weren’t for his bouts with Diverticulitis, he may very well still be the heavyweight champion of the world.

The UFC Hall of Fame, home to legends of the sport, well, most of them anyway. It’s not a Hall of Best Records. It’s not the Hall of Really Really Good Fighters, and it’s certainly not the Hall of Legitimate Unarmed Combatants Who Like to be Punched in the Face. It is the Hall of Fame – something Brock Lesnar knows all too well. If there’s anything this guy is it’s famous. From his post-UFC 100 promo ripping the corporate sponsors to his recipe for chicken salad, the bearded viking was a memorable character, a household name, and the main event. You can’t tell the story of the UFC without mentioning the NCAA standout turned pro wrestler turned NFL player turned mixed martial artist. Sylvester Stallone was inducted into the Boxing Hall of Fame for his role in the ‘Rocky’ movies. Mike Tyson was inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame for, well, being Mike Tyson. Are you going to tell me either of these two helped their promotion more than Brock did the UFC? Didn’t think so.

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Yeah.
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Old 04-23-2012, 07:10 PM   #2
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No. He had a good albeit brief run. He won some big fights and drew alot of fans. But the Hall of Fame, to me anyway, is something reserved for an elite few who have done beyond exceptional things for the sport and had amazing careers. I don't think he did enough in the Octagon to warrant a hall of fame bid.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:31 PM   #3
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I'll say there's always exceptions to the rules, and I'll say yes he should. Besides what Penn states above I also highly doubt there will be another Brock Lesnar. A unique entry into the hall of fame won't tarnish it at all because there won't be another one like him.
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:36 AM   #4
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Definitely should be in there. He's done a ton for the UFC in terms of fame and exposure.
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Old 04-24-2012, 05:19 AM   #5
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nah. i'm sure the guy did tons for the ufc in terms of exposure and whatnot but there was no longitevity and the guy turned out to be a coward. i think of brock as a fighter who shone brightly early on but quickly got found out and never adapted. if randy couture knew how shit brock was at taking a punch i imagine he would have changed his title defense strategy drastically back in the day.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:50 AM   #6
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I think he is one of the most important selling points of the UFC of the last 5 years.

But no, I think the Hall of Fame should be mostly about the in octagon career.

He could have been an all time great, but injury cut him off at the knees.
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:02 AM   #7
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I think Brock did a lot for the UFC in terms of exposure and perhaps hastened the company's rise in popularity. However, I think the UFC would have reached this point eventually without him and in hindsight, his record as a fighter is mediocre and lacks longevity.
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Old 04-24-2012, 05:55 PM   #8
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:35 PM   #9
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Brock will be in there someday, personally if he never got diverticulitus i think he'd still be fighting in the UFC, his body can`t take it anymore, the guy is 106 - 5 in the NCAA hes not a quitter, he works to be the best, he beat Mir (former champ),Herring(veteran,ended his career), Carwin (undefeated at the time and interim champ),Min Soo Kim(tomato can but silver medalist in judo)and Randy F'n Couture! (former champ in 2 divisions,olympic alternate wrestler) his fights were always exciting, and main events basically, he grossed alot of money and brought alot of attention to the UFC, if he had gotten better striking he woulda been pretty tough to beat, yes I am a Brock Lesnar fan boy, I watched him since I was like 9 and he was in the WWE, then only started watching UFC and MMA cuz he was there, he inspired me to get into wrestling, ive been wrestling since 7th grade so about 5 years now, and I plan on pursuing MMA cuz of Lesnar
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:13 PM   #10
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No one who is 4-3 in the UFC should go to the UFC Hall of Fame.. Sure he was a beast and a big draw but really his only "big" wins were over Carwin (who had ZERO cardio and had never been out of the 1st round), a 44 year old Couture who was only back at HW to dethrone Sylvia, and Mir, who he also lost to.. Herring is a joke and only had success in Pride, and even then, the only "names" he beat were Kerr, Vovchanchyn, and Evan Tanner (at HW) who he had also lost to.. Sure he was a "vet" but every time he faced anyone of worth he lost.. He lost to Cro Cop, Fedor, Belfort, Big Nog, etc etc etc..

He is not a UFC Hall of Famer..

The only guys in the HOF are Couture, Coleman, Severn, Gracie, Hughes, Liddell, Shamrock and "Mask".. With guys like BJ Penn, GSP, Anderson Silva, Evan Tanner, Rich Franklin, Dan Henderson, and even guys who were as successful in UFC but made a bigger impact on MMA as a whole like Cro Cop, Shogun, etc, not on the list, I'm hard to believe he is in the calibre with his short career and the illness..
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris P Lettus View Post
No one who is 4-3 in the UFC should go to the UFC Hall of Fame.. Sure he was a beast and a big draw but really his only "big" wins were over Carwin (who had ZERO cardio and had never been out of the 1st round), a 44 year old Couture who was only back at HW to dethrone Sylvia, and Mir, who he also lost to.. Herring is a joke and only had success in Pride, and even then, the only "names" he beat were Kerr, Vovchanchyn, and Evan Tanner (at HW) who he had also lost to.. Sure he was a "vet" but every time he faced anyone of worth he lost.. He lost to Cro Cop, Fedor, Belfort, Big Nog, etc etc etc..

He is not a UFC Hall of Famer..

The only guys in the HOF are Couture, Coleman, Severn, Gracie, Hughes, Liddell, Shamrock and "Mask".. With guys like BJ Penn, GSP, Anderson Silva, Evan Tanner, Rich Franklin, Dan Henderson, and even guys who were as successful in UFC but made a bigger impact on MMA as a whole like Cro Cop, Shogun, etc, not on the list, I'm hard to believe he is in the calibre with his short career and the illness..
This is quite possibly the stupidest post that I've read in quite some time. You need to give your head a shake. Lesnar, having had extremely limited MMA training, came in and not on won the UFC Heavyweight title in record time, but set records for PPV buyrates, etc. It was obvious that Lesnar's illness slowed him down, and even with the illness, he still managed to survive and beat Shane Carwin; a guy, who up until that point, was unbeaten.

I would greatly prefer it if the adults on this site stuck to UFC discussion.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:37 PM   #12
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4-3
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lui Kang View Post
-Two losses to Cain Valasquez and Alistair Overeem; arguably two of the greatest MMA fighters of all-time.
lmfao
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:51 PM   #14
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Other than Junior Dos Santos, name any current MMA fighter or any past MMA fighter in their primes that could defeat Cain and Overeem.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Thanks for coming out.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:08 PM   #15
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I'm not really gonna continue this because you are obv an uneducated troll, but I will add ONE more point..

Bo Jackson isn't in the NFL Hall of Fame for a reason.. He only played 4 seasons before injury ended his career.. With a 5.5 yards per carry and 9 yards per catch, he was well on the way to being one of the best RB's in NFL history, BUT he fucked his hip up and BOOM, no more NFL career..

I look at Lesnar in the same light.. Sure, he is a monster wrestler with heavy hands, a lethal double, and cardio for days, specially for a 6'3" 290lbs beast.. He had some impressive wins and sure, he brought in some WWE fan boys to add to the buy rates, but the simple fact is, he was 4-3 in the UFC, and after returning from his illness, was a shell of his former fighting self..

If potential means someone deserves a spot in the Hall of Fame, then fuck it, lets put those kids from the Tapout commercial in there.. Along with Phil Baroni..
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:12 PM   #16
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For fuck sake Pat Miletich isn't even in there and not only was he 8-2 in the UFC, but he also trained numerous UFC champions like Tim Sylvia, Jens Pulver, Matt Hughes, etc..
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris P Lettus View Post
I'm not really gonna continue this because you are obv an uneducated troll, but I will add ONE more point..

Bo Jackson isn't in the NFL Hall of Fame for a reason..
Bo Jackson never won a Super Bowl and even during his stellar yet short lived NFL career, was never considered the best player in the league.

Lesnar was THE #1 guy in the UFC. He won the Heavyweight championship and was the biggest drawing card in UFC. Bo Jackson was never of these things for Football.

Perhaps it is you that is the uneducated troll......along with being overweight.

Quote:
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For fuck sake Pat Miletich isn't even in there and not only was he 8-2 in the UFC, but he also trained numerous UFC champions like Tim Sylvia, Jens Pulver, Matt Hughes, etc..
Was he ever the heavyweight champion that drew the biggest numbers?

Again, thanks for coming out.
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Old 05-08-2012, 04:39 PM   #18
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The Backstreet Boys sold more albums than Bob Marley..
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Old 05-08-2012, 04:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris P Lettus View Post
No one who is 4-3 in the UFC should go to the UFC Hall of Fame.. Sure he was a beast and a big draw but really his only "big" wins were over Carwin (who had ZERO cardio and had never been out of the 1st round), a 44 year old Couture who was only back at HW to dethrone Sylvia, and Mir, who he also lost to.. Herring is a joke and only had success in Pride, and even then, the only "names" he beat were Kerr, Vovchanchyn, and Evan Tanner (at HW) who he had also lost to.. Sure he was a "vet" but every time he faced anyone of worth he lost.. He lost to Cro Cop, Fedor, Belfort, Big Nog, etc etc etc..

He is not a UFC Hall of Famer..

The only guys in the HOF are Couture, Coleman, Severn, Gracie, Hughes, Liddell, Shamrock and "Mask".. With guys like BJ Penn, GSP, Anderson Silva, Evan Tanner, Rich Franklin, Dan Henderson, and even guys who were as successful in UFC but made a bigger impact on MMA as a whole like Cro Cop, Shogun, etc, not on the list, I'm hard to believe he is in the calibre with his short career and the illness..


I hate that first paragraph b/c you could do the same thing to any fighter picking their record apart to suit any argument...for example would anyone deny Fedor a place in any HOF, no, but who has he really beat? Kevin Randleman? China Chin Arlovski?

Come on man, you are better than saying "44yr old Couture". Guy was still legit at the weight.
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:01 PM   #20
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Couture got brought back just to save the division, which he did.. Just like Lesnar's title run.. As soon as he started fighting legit talent, he didn't look so great.. Sure, it was prolly the illness, but I really don't think he would have gotten the shot, if the talent was as deep as it is now.. He got the shot just b/c there wasn't anyone else except Couture, Mir, and Big Nog.. Now you have guys like Carwin, Cain, Dos Santos, Overeem, Werdum, Big Country, etc on top of those previously mentioned fighters (minus Couture).. And with guys like Barnette and Cormier coming in, it's even gonna get deeper..

Anyone who thinks the HW division was anywhere near what it is now, four years ago, is a f'n retard..

p.s. LOL at yr Fedor comment.. He beat everyone (cept Henderson).. Cro Cop, Sylvia, Randleman, Big Nog, Coleman, Hunt, etc etc etc..
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:00 PM   #21
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I hate that first paragraph b/c you could do the same thing to any fighter picking their record apart to suit any argument...for example would anyone deny Fedor a place in any HOF, no, but who has he really beat? Kevin Randleman? China Chin Arlovski?

Come on man, you are better than saying "44yr old Couture". Guy was still legit at the weight.
This is why I've said before that when you consider great fighters or hall of famers you should consider fighters that fought prior to 2008 when Pride was the premier organization and guys like Couture, Ortiz and Liddell were at the top and post 2008 when more well rounded athletes like Lesnar, Evans and Jones emerged. There's obviously going to be some overlap, but I think that works for most guys.

You can't really knock the run Fedor had in Pride and we know Royce Gracie would have no chance in hell in today's MMA landscape, but that doesn't make their contributions any less impressive during the era they fought in.

I agree with Kris P. in that Couture's run at HW was more him keeping a down division on life support and less Couture being that good. There is no one he beat at HW that anyone would consider more than a gatekeeper and even in his last few fights at LHW Randy was basically passing the belt back and forth with Liddell. When Brock and Randy stood next to each other, it didn't even seem fair.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:11 PM   #22
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The UFC was completely different during Couture's first HW run..

I've always said there should have been a 225lbs division for guys like Couture, Cro Cop, even a guy like Pat Barry..
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:15 PM   #23
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Also, I absolutely love Randy Couture and he is in my top 3 of all time, fyi.. This is by no means a shot at him or his achievements.. I'm just saying that he isn't a real HW and Dana begged him to come back to save the division..

It was pretty much set up for Brock to take the title and rematch Mir.. Lucky for them Mir did beat Big Nog, which lead to the huge buyrate of UFC 100.. But that wasn't just Lesnar, it was the biggest card they'd ever put on next to UFC 92..
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:43 PM   #24
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Yea please no 225 division. It's fine as it is
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:33 PM   #25
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lesnar belongs nowhere near any MMA HOF
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:12 PM   #26
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Yea please no 225 division. It's fine as it is
I was talking about when it was first sanctioned and they first made weight divisions..
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:25 PM   #27
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Who is in the hall of fame? That guy that punched the other guy in the nuts for a tap out win? Yeah, they shouldn't muddy up Lesnars name with the likes of him.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:37 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
Who is in the hall of fame? That guy that punched the other guy in the nuts for a tap out win? Yeah, they shouldn't muddy up Lesnars name with the likes of him.
Jon Son didn't tap from it and Keith Hackney isn't in the Hall of Fame..
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Old 05-27-2012, 10:35 PM   #29
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Old 05-29-2012, 03:40 PM   #30
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I personally wouldn't put him in there, but it's not like complete blashemy if he made it in one day.
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Old 05-30-2012, 02:31 PM   #31
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nah. i'm sure the guy did tons for the ufc in terms of exposure and whatnot but there was no longitevity and the guy turned out to be a coward. i think of brock as a fighter who shone brightly early on but quickly got found out and never adapted. if randy couture knew how shit brock was at taking a punch i imagine he would have changed his title defense strategy drastically back in the day.

Whether he is in the HoF or not, I take issue with calling him a coward. He had a portion of his guts ripped out, from a highly debilitating disease, and still got back into the octagon to face one of the best heavyweights going today.

He didn't leave because he was scared. He just realized that after his ordeal with the disease, he could never be what he was, so he humbly bowed out. Most people wouldn't have even showed up for the Overeem fight.
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Old 05-30-2012, 02:53 PM   #32
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He's not a Hall of Famer
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:10 PM   #33
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No. Only had a handful of fights overall and even less when he had the belt.

He did manage to become a big name and brought in a lot of interest to UFC during his short time there though.
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:09 PM   #34
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Absolutely.

He brought in a lot of interest to UFC, boosted their business big time, and was an amazing fighter before his health issues.
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