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Old 06-25-2012, 12:00 AM   #1
Mr. C
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Make matches matter
After quite a few years as a fan of professional wrestling, I’ve heard complaints about the product, some valid and some not. The one that bugs me more than any other is how little the outcome of most matches seems to matter. It's hard to become emotionally invested in most of the matches on RAW and SmackDown, because who wins doesn't seem to matter much. Very rarely does the WWE try to establish how a match on television affects the title hunt.

An Intercontinental title match should be an adequate RAW main event, but with having so much time to fill with content these days, it really won’t happen. I know the idea is that you’re in this business to become the WWE Champion, but not everyone there is the champion. That’s lost in creative, as well as some of the wrestlers who are just pegged to become stars right out the gate. Yes, I want guys like Dolph Ziggler and Wade Barrett to get the title and have a reign, but when they’re not challenging for the title or fighting John Cena, they’re lost in the shuffle.
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:31 AM   #2
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Pretty much.

One of the main problems that I've mentioned before is how the outcomes of the matches don't serve the purpose they try to make them serve. CM Punk being pinned on Raw does not mean anything if it's happening monthly in 10 minute Raw matches. Then all of a sudden, he regains his skills to win with the title on the line at the PPV. Rinse, repeat. It's pointless.

There's no reason you can't have Punk wrestling a lower-midcard guy on Raw, squashing them on occasion, struggling a little on occasion, but ultimately winning because he is the best in the world. That "best in the word" title should be justified by him being more successful in matches than anyone else in the world... not just on PPV when the title is on the line. His world title storyline leading into PPVs can be built up via altercations not revolving around matches. It's not rocket science.

It's easy to use matches to solidify guys' placement on the card and build up to a point where you're pitting two guys together who match up well to build intrigue as to who will win. There needs to be an idea where people stand and the matches need to show that. If you want to book Punk as the best in the world, you can't have him losing regularly. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make his character seem any more impressive than your typical main eventer who also loses about as much.

Smackdown is better as far as character booking within matches. Sheamus has been beating Dolph Ziggler over and over but Dolph has taken him to the limit every time. This establishes that Sheamus is the top dog and Ziggler is the up and comer who just can't get over the hump. His wins over lesser guys than Sheamus helps to solidify the fact that he's good but not quite THAT good yet.

Del Rio vs Christian last week was good too. Del Rio is a main eventer, Christian is the champion of the upper-mid card. Christian came within an eyelash of beating him but ultimately failed. It justifies where both guys are. I'm not saying the result of those matches had to be just so. Upsets can and should happen. Just like with a legit sport, you have minor upsets and major upsets on occasion. But with every match, there should be some kind of understanding of where people stand.

That's how you make TV matches matter while also building up anticipation for PPV matches between evenly matches guys.
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:54 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. C View Post
After quite a few years as a fan of professional wrestling, I’ve heard complaints about the product, some valid and some not. The one that bugs me more than any other is how little the outcome of most matches seems to matter. It's hard to become emotionally invested in most of the matches on RAW and SmackDown, because who wins doesn't seem to matter much. Very rarely does the WWE try to establish how a match on television affects the title hunt.

An Intercontinental title match should be an adequate RAW main event, but with having so much time to fill with content these days, it really won’t happen. I know the idea is that you’re in this business to become the WWE Champion, but not everyone there is the champion. That’s lost in creative, as well as some of the wrestlers who are just pegged to become stars right out the gate. Yes, I want guys like Dolph Ziggler and Wade Barrett to get the title and have a reign, but when they’re not challenging for the title or fighting John Cena, they’re lost in the shuffle.
I think it's like a demo now or playing an hour of a game you get the feel of it but you don't get the full thing.. i mean back then they used to show great meaningful matches ON Tv. Now all it's about is money and making that big profit on the PPVs. The WWE today doesn't understand that you can make money and still put out a great product for people to watch. Look what they are doing with the writing and how they aren't really developing all these guys that much or following up with them. Take that Sandow guy for example.

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Old 06-25-2012, 03:24 AM   #4
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Some of their matches do matter, but most are used to treat a large percentage of the talent like shit! For instance, if you don't air somebody's theme, you already know that person is gonna lose. STUPID!

If a guy is doing good on television and drawing a good crowd, you don't keep the sunava bitch OFF of the television and make him look like a barely visible stepping stone- he's making people care if he wins or not. STUPID!

Like #1wwfchampion said, if you're holding a primary title and are considered a top face, don't make him lose half or more of his matches, that only makes it look like he shouldn't be champion or takes away the meaning of his role. STUPID!

Another thing I've noticed on the programs- when someone does become a champion, it seems like the character development stops. This is the case of both Punk and Sheamus. Matches may still be good matches, but people will lose interest in them if their characters weren't bettering, and by bettering, I mean cutting more priceless promos, making people more and more afraid of them, or doing controversial things. Make these guys champion and then say fuck it, let their characters get old? STUPID!
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:45 AM   #5
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I agree with the original post. Could you imagine if Hulk Hogan was losing non-title matches on Superstars in the lead up to PPVs back in the day? Seems ridiculous to even think about.

I think it's all based on the shoehorn booking trying to squeeze as many PPVs into a calendar year to where they don't have time to build up contenders as viable threats. We've talked about that ad nauseam, but that's only because it's so true. When you have three weeks to build a contender as opposed to months, you have to give people a quick reason to think that the contender deserves a shot, so what better way than to have him beat the champion? It makes sense sorta, but it's not entertaining...like, at all.
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:56 AM   #6
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Yeah. It doesn't say "He beat the champion, he's got a legit shot of doing it again for the title" as much as it says "He beat the champion... big deal. Join the club."
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:59 AM   #7
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I remember in the case of HHH during the Mcmahon/Helmsley Era, losing was a rarity for him. It took a helluvan effort for him to lose the match to somebody. He might have had more, but during that Era, he had two non-PPV losses that I am aware of- one to Chris Jericho and another to the Brooklyn Brawler.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:01 AM   #8
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I don't even like the contender and champion being in matches with one another in the build up to a PPV. From a kayfabe GM stand point, you shouldn't even want to be giving away your PPV main event on free TV. Seems like it would be super easy to book around, but I guess just the sheer volume of material they have to write makes it hard to be amazing all the time. Fortunately, they still strike gold every here and again.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:02 AM   #9
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I remember in the case of HHH during the Mcmahon/Helmsley Era, losing was a rarity for him. It took a helluvan effort for him to lose the match to somebody. He might have had more, but during that Era, he had two non-PPV losses that I am aware of- one to Chris Jericho and another to the Brooklyn Brawler.
He even had the aura about him AFTER that. Remember what a huge deal it was when Shelton Benjamin beat him on Raw?
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:08 AM   #10
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That's cuz he is
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:09 AM   #11
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I was just about to mention his loss to Shelton Benjamin. That was huge. And all these years later, it's still fresh in people's minds. I think it says something when you can specifically name someone's TV losses like that. Punk I can name Tensai, Jericho, Kane, Bryan... that's just because they happened in the last month or two. I'm sure there are people who had forgotten about some of those already because of how unimportant they were.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:12 AM   #12
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Shelton's two wins over Triple H had him poised for greatness. He kinda squandered the opportunity I guess, but at least the potential was there. It would be nice to get back to something like that.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:13 AM   #13
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Speaking of making things matter, the United States title should be very, very far from Santino Marella right now.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:30 AM   #14
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I'm still wondering why the hell it got taken away from Ryder and given to... bleck.. Swagger.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:33 AM   #15
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Swagger made sense as US champion. I thought he was going to have a great run and become relevant again with the reign coming to an end once Swagger proved to Vickie that he could do anything Dolph could do (incredible title run from Dolph and that title). THEN I expected the blow off match that Swagger and Ziggler just had on Raw for free in something like 6 minutes if I had to guess. Could have been PPV worthy. Everybody knew Dolph was going to win that match on Monday. Could have been way bigger. Oh well. No point in talking about that now.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:34 AM   #16
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Ryder's not really that awesome, btw.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:42 AM   #17
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It's because they won't let him be. I think he needs to be somewhat revamped, like have a new finisher and not be as much of a coward either (doesn't have to a fearless retard either, but too much is too much). The fans love him, you gotta admit that, he just needs a little work.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:50 AM   #18
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They let him speak, and every time he does, he sounds like a giant doofus. His mic skills are nowhere to be found. I do think he's OK in the ring, but the only "great" match I remember from him was against Christian for the ECW title a couple years or so ago.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:53 AM   #19
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Speaking of making things matter, the United States title should be very, very far from Santino Marella right now.
I'm a huge fan of Santino but I agree that until his character is revamped to include a "Holy shit, he's goofy as fuck but he can actually beat someone's ass" factor, they need to get the title off of him.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:56 AM   #20
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Ryder was kinda in the same boat. Difference is Santino has the ability to look credible in the ring (Just look at his style in OVW). I can't see Ryder working as a champion.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:59 AM   #21
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Don't get me wrong, I think Ryder is a million miles away from any hope of a primary title shot. I see potential in him, but he's not using enough of it. He needs to speak more like he does in his Youtube show.
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:02 AM   #22
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THEN I expected the blow off match that Swagger and Ziggler just had on Raw for free in something like 6 minutes if I had to guess. Could have been PPV worthy. Everybody knew Dolph was going to win that match on Monday. Could have been way bigger. Oh well. No point in talking about that now.
Yeah, that's another thing. Crazy missed opportunities. Ziggler kinda has his spells where he's not really doing anything of note (As with most of the Raw roster outside the main event). Swagger definitely hasn't had a feud in a while. Why not stretch out that natural feud between Swagger and Ziggler to a PPV and make an intriguing midcard match with a story instead of throwing on Sin Cara vs Hunico unannounced with no build? It would almost take little to no effort... which seems right up these writers' block.

I thought the same thing when John Morrison returned after R-Truth injured him. All that waiting and he makes his return to face Truth on Raw and Truth squashes him in like 5 minutes. I think that was before SummerSlam where both men were involved in an impromptu 6 man tag to start the show... as opposed to just letting that natural build that had been building for months while Morrison was out lead to a big PPV match. Again, little to no effort. But they decided to blow it on a quick TV match.
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:06 AM   #23
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It's definitely not a good sign when you aren't even using your PPVs to build up your midcard. A good reason why they're starting to realize none of the younger guys are main event ready. Because they've spent all these years not putting any effort into anything but the current main event and now they've got all these young guys who have just been drifting aimlessly for years and they're wondering why they aren't over.
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:26 AM   #24
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Give me rep if you guys like what I posted above.
Did you really just say that?
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Old 06-25-2012, 06:22 AM   #25
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It felt weird on the first seasons of NXT when they would track the win/loss record.
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:15 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by tjogo View Post

Give me rep if you guys like what I posted above.
Tell me you did not just say that!
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:18 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
It felt weird on the first seasons of NXT when they would track the win/loss record.
TG I never paid attention to NXT.

Also, I never understood why they seemingly all of a sudden stopped paying attention to peoples win/loss records
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:11 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Logan View Post
TG I never paid attention to NXT.

Also, I never understood why they seemingly all of a sudden stopped paying attention to peoples win/loss records
If they did, it would look even more ridiculous that the champion has a pretty shitty one.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:20 PM   #29
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Does anyone think Cena is going to lose at Money In The Bank? I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s the one who ends Punk’s reign at SummerSlam. I’ll be more surprised if Punk wins, considering Punk went over last year at SummerSlam.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:06 PM   #30
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Cena vs Punk would kill the progress they've made getting the fans more behind Cena. Not only because it would put him back in the title picture so they can start resenting him again but it would put him against a guy that they will be WAY more behind than him. It would be a bad idea.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:51 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Mr. C View Post
Does anyone think Cena is going to lose at Money In The Bank? I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s the one who ends Punk’s reign at SummerSlam. I’ll be more surprised if Punk wins, considering Punk went over last year at SummerSlam.
I've been waiting for the argument of Cena cashing in on a face, without announcing it to turn him heel.
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Old 06-28-2012, 12:50 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Volare
I've been waiting for the argument of Cena cashing in on a face, without announcing it to turn him heel.
Cena won't turn heel because there isn't anyone who, as a face, is good enough to oppose him.
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Old 06-28-2012, 10:51 AM   #33
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I do think Cena wins MitB, but loses his cash-in. If WWE wanted to spin that back to the "he can't win the big one" story they were telling after Mania, they could come up with much worse ways of getting there.

Or he could just no-sell the loss again and pour barbecue sauce on an announcer.

I feel like this all-former-champions match is a clever way to have someone fail cashing in without losing momentum.
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Old 06-28-2012, 01:54 PM   #34
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Cena won't turn heel because there isn't anyone who, as a face, is good enough to oppose him.
Have you not been watching the program for the past year? CM Punk and Daniel Bryan are both well equipped to stand strong as opposition for a heel John Cena. Punk brings out the best in Cena - John hasn't had a single match as good as his encounters with Punk at MITB and Summerslam last year. Punk sells merchandise, he gets cheered and chanted for in every arena, and he's a good role model because no one can ever question whether he's on steroids or not. Daniel Bryan is just fucking amazing right now and his "Yes!" gimmick is so over he could turn face on a dime.

The only reasons they won't turn Cena heel is because of all the merchandise he sells, because of all the Be a Star and Make a Wish stuff he does, and because Vince McMahon and Triple H don't believe that Punk or Bryan are physically big enough to be the face of the WWE.

End rant.
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:22 AM   #35
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Have you not been watching the program for the past year? CM Punk and Daniel Bryan are both well equipped to stand strong as opposition for a heel John Cena. Punk brings out the best in Cena - John hasn't had a single match as good as his encounters with Punk at MITB and Summerslam last year. Punk sells merchandise, he gets cheered and chanted for in every arena, and he's a good role model because no one can ever question whether he's on steroids or not. Daniel Bryan is just fucking amazing right now and his "Yes!" gimmick is so over he could turn face on a dime.

The only reasons they won't turn Cena heel is because of all the merchandise he sells, because of all the Be a Star and Make a Wish stuff he does, and because Vince McMahon and Triple H don't believe that Punk or Bryan are physically big enough to be the face of the WWE.

End rant.
I think if Cena's out of the way, Punk's popularity would triple if not more, as long as he speaks pipe bombs that earn the gasps of the audience, but still.... Ryback's coming up, so that might not happen anyways.
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:00 PM   #36
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Having wins matter is by making more matches for the lesser titles. It would help put over the lesser titles if more guys were anxious to get a shot. Just giving Jack Swagger a United States title shot with no build and no reason doesn’t exactly make me think anyone gives a smeg. The brand split is dead; drop the World Heavyweight title. Build up the Intercontinental and United States titles and have those titles be main event matches on RAW and SmackDown. Meanwhile, keep the main angles revolving around the WWE Champion, but only give him the main event of the Pay-Per-View and two TV matches.
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:09 PM   #37
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For the last time: Cena doesn't need to turn heel. He's the PERFECT wrestler. People either LOVE him or HATE him, so he's perfect because regardless, he always draws a reaction. Pretty much anybody can go up against Cena and get over be it a face or a heel.
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:10 PM   #38
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I think if Cena's out of the way, Punk's popularity would triple if not more, as long as he speaks pipe bombs that earn the gasps of the audience, but still.... Ryback's coming up, so that might not happen anyways.
Punk's "pipebombs" get old fast
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:11 PM   #39
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I think if Cena's out of the way, Punk's popularity would triple if not more, as long as he speaks pipe bombs that earn the gasps of the audience, but still.... Ryback's coming up, so that might not happen anyways.
If you mean just the lack of Cena would cause Punk's popularity to skyrocket, I have no idea why you would think that.

If you mean Cena being out of the way would force WWE into booking Punk as "THE guy" and would therefore raise his popularity, that's probably true. No way it triples or gets nearly as huge as you think though. WWE's writers don't have the ability to book a character that well at the moment and "pipe bombs" only go so far. As it stands, Punk in his current state is not ready to be the face of the company.
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:19 PM   #40
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For the last time: Cena doesn't need to turn heel. He's the PERFECT wrestler. People either LOVE him or HATE him, so he's perfect because regardless, he always draws a reaction. Pretty much anybody can go up against Cena and get over be it a face or a heel.
I don't buy that.

The same argument could have been made for Hulk Hogan in 1995/96. He was in about the same state as Cena is now: the kids still loved him and cheered for him, but the older audience booed him and didn't buy his schtick anymore. Regardless, he got "a reaction" wherever he went.

But when he turned heel he exploded. Yes, he turned off the kiddies and alienated them against him, but it was the biggest thing ever because his heel character was just so good.

Cena "works" right now because of the reasons you listed, and there's no argument that that is true. But to say that he couldn't be even bigger and a better asset to the entertainment and storyline aspect of the company as a mega heel is just unfounded. A full blown John Cena heel turn would be like an atomic bomb going off in the middle of the WWE universe. The kids would be shocked and alienated and terrified that their hero had turned evil. The adults and teens would love the fact that he had changed and become what they always thought he could become. And everyone would look to see who was going to step up and try and take down the monster that John Cena had become.

Of course, you'd need someone capable of writing that storyline and keeping it on track to make the thing really work. But a massive heel John Cena who got mega heat in every arena in the country against the TRUE babyface star of the company (see: someone who doesn't get a 50/50 reaction in every arena, but more like a 90/10 reaction), be it CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, an elevated Ryback, or whomever could be incredible in all aspects: entertainment value, good versus evil storylines, PPV buyrates and TV ratings.

I guarantee they will pull the trigger one day. Cena can't be this character forever. It's just a matter of time. My only concern is that when they do pull the trigger, will it be too late?
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