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Old 06-11-2004, 04:31 PM   #1
The One
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Do away with Heels/Faces.
Am I the only one who is damn sick and tired of WWE trying to push someone's status down our throats? What if, here is a tricky one, no one was anything. Everyone would have their own favorites. If you didn't have JR leading the Mark Parade and you just let people wrestler. Sure their could be story lines...sure there could be backstage attackings, but instread of JR doing the "Bah Gawd Sum of a Bitch" just do a "Bah Gawd, what an attack" and let the crowd make up their own damn mind. Think about it. Why do we need to be told who to cheer and who to boo. People are smart enough to decide who they like and don't like. Don't have just usless promos like "Boy your town sucks" and then a face come out to save the day...because honestly when someone attacks another town, I don't give a flying fuck about it since I don't live there...oh and when they ARE in my town, I don't care either . My point is this. What if Chris Benoit and Edge could have a fued where JR didn't shout hatred from the top of his lungs, and instead it was just a fued between the two of them. Everyone could do heelish things (backstage attacks, attacks on mangers, etc.) and it wouldn't be encouraged, it would just be fueled by hatred...

Oh...and we could side step any other potential Nazi related "heat drawers" too....

Quote:
Originally Posted by What Would Kevin Do? View Post
I would have no problem with HBK getting a farewell run with the title before he retires.

With that said though, there is no belt in the industry that HBK could win that would add to his career. HBK's career is built around him being HBK, not winning a bunch of titles.
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Old 06-11-2004, 04:32 PM   #2
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*Heels
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Old 06-11-2004, 04:33 PM   #3
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*Heels
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Old 06-11-2004, 04:33 PM   #4
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Damn it ILT!!!!
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Old 06-11-2004, 04:36 PM   #5
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DAMN YOUR GREEN FONT JOEY!!!!!!1
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Old 06-11-2004, 04:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
Am I the only one who is damn sick and tired of WWE trying to push someone's status down our throats? What if, here is a tricky one, no one was anything. Everyone would have their own favorites. If you didn't have JR leading the Mark Parade and you just let people wrestler. Sure their could be story lines...sure there could be backstage attackings, but instread of JR doing the "Bah Gawd Sum of a Bitch" just do a "Bah Gawd, what an attack" and let the crowd make up their own damn mind. Think about it. Why do we need to be told who to cheer and who to boo. People are smart enough to decide who they like and don't like. Don't have just usless promos like "Boy your town sucks" and then a face come out to save the day...because honestly when someone attacks another town, I don't give a flying fuck about it since I don't live there...oh and when they ARE in my town, I don't care either . My point is this. What if Chris Benoit and Edge could have a fued where JR didn't shout hatred from the top of his lungs, and instead it was just a fued between the two of them. Everyone could do heelish things (backstage attacks, attacks on mangers, etc.) and it wouldn't be encouraged, it would just be fueled by hatred...

Oh...and we could side step any other potential Nazi related "heat drawers" too....
I wouldnt this idea at all.

BTW, where is your Billy Gunn sig?
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Old 06-11-2004, 04:39 PM   #7
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Wrestling would be boring without Good Guys and bad guys. I hate to break it to you but its not about the wrestling anymore. Its about entertainment. Thats why so many fans say "Raw is better than smackdown" or "Smackdown sucked" it wasnt because of the wrestling its the story line. Good guy/ Bad Guy is what makes the show more entertaining is what makes it have some excitment.
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Old 06-11-2004, 04:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilt_undertaker

BTW, where is your Billy Gunn sig?
I fixed it...there you go
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Old 06-11-2004, 04:43 PM   #9
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Thank you The One
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Old 06-11-2004, 04:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Radd
Wrestling would be boring without Good Guys and bad guys. I hate to break it to you but its not about the wrestling anymore. Its about entertainment. Thats why so many fans say "Raw is better than smackdown" or "Smackdown sucked" it wasnt because of the wrestling its the story line. Good guy/ Bad Guy is what makes the show more entertaining is what makes it have some excitment.
Yeah, good point there
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Old 06-11-2004, 04:48 PM   #11
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But see...I enjoy SmackDown more BECAUSE of good matches...hell 9 time out of 10 I mute the TV when watching Wrestling so I can do my own commmentary...so I don't even hear promos and the likes
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Old 06-11-2004, 04:48 PM   #12
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Honestly I don't think that doing away with the heel/face thing would be a good idea, but allowing the fans more of a say in the matter as well as having JR tone it down a little bit on telling us who to cheer. And some more face/face and heel/heel matchups wouln't be a bad idea. It's a good change of gears and makes the whole thing more emotionally charged. Obviously you can't have that all the time, but they could certainly do with having it more often.
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Old 06-11-2004, 04:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Radd
Wrestling would be boring without Good Guys and bad guys. I hate to break it to you but its not about the wrestling anymore. Its about entertainment. Thats why so many fans say "Raw is better than smackdown" or "Smackdown sucked" it wasnt because of the wrestling its the story line. Good guy/ Bad Guy is what makes the show more entertaining is what makes it have some excitment.
Why do the segments involving in ring wrestling consistantly draw the highest ratings then? Who buys PPV's to see storylines?

Storylines are an important part of wrestling it's the matches that people pay to see. Simple as that.
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Old 06-11-2004, 04:49 PM   #14
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Wrestling NEEDS good vs. evil. It's the oldest angle in the world and it's draws.
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Old 06-11-2004, 04:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
But see...I enjoy SmackDown more BECAUSE of good matches...hell 9 time out of 10 I mute the TV when watching Wrestling so I can do my own commmentary...so I don't even hear promos and the likes
lol, I used to do that too. But I put the mute off on promos, unless its HHH, then it goes back on
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Old 06-11-2004, 04:57 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
Why do the segments involving in ring wrestling consistantly draw the highest ratings then? Who buys PPV's to see storylines?

Storylines are an important part of wrestling it's the matches that people pay to see. Simple as that.


Did Your Order ...lets say Wrestlemania XX? If you did Why? for the great wrestling of the Undertaker? To see girls roll around on each other? To watch the Rock and Sock connection take on Evolution? Im sorry Rob but your wrong. Yes people enjoy seeing a good technical "wrestling" match But its the story that goes with it that we want. The Hype for takers return wasn't because he is a phenominal wrestler its his gimmick the excitment everyone got when they heard a *gong. Read back through the RAW threads leading up to his return and see how many posters Marked out. Take a look at the Legend killer story line and look at LC's post.
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Old 06-11-2004, 05:03 PM   #17
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I watched Wrestlemania XX for Benoit vs HHH.

That is all.
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Old 06-11-2004, 05:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asphyXy
I watched Wrestlemania XX for Benoit vs HHH.

That is all.

Thats why you wanted to watch wrestlemanina but thats not what you got.

HHH vs. HBK vs. Benoit
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Old 06-11-2004, 08:39 PM   #19
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Good VS Evil will always sell.
It's not just in the wrestling world.
Quite frankly watching a bunch of people whom I respect yet have no feelings for beat the hell out of each other would be boring.
Now watching someone I like beat the hell out of someone I dislike is cool.
Seeing someone I dislike beat the hell out of someone I like will make me watch next week in hopes that Mr. Good Guy gets revenge.


...Okay, that's not the best way to say it, but I'm running on empty...
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Old 06-12-2004, 08:21 AM   #20
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One of the best things in wrestling (which hardly occurs now) is massive heat for heel.
I watched some old PPV's not so long ago, and the heat that the likes of ted debiasse, bam bam bigelow and yokozuna used to get was simply unreal!

Doing away with heels/faces will loose all that.

Anywayz, the majority of the storylines are based on heels doing somehting bad, face getting angry, square off and feud, this is the essence of wrestling nowadays.

as far as ur suggestion of getting rid of heels and face tags...i think it is happening to a certain degree, mainly with the midcarders (esspecially on Smackdown). I mean, where are guys like Charlie Haas, Rico, Miss Jackie, Jamie Noble, hardcore holly, billy gunn nowadays? they are tweeners if anything
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Old 06-12-2004, 08:43 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Radd


Did Your Order ...lets say Wrestlemania XX? If you did Why? for the great wrestling of the Undertaker? To see girls roll around on each other? To watch the Rock and Sock connection take on Evolution? Im sorry Rob but your wrong. Yes people enjoy seeing a good technical "wrestling" match But its the story that goes with it that we want. The Hype for takers return wasn't because he is a phenominal wrestler its his gimmick the excitment everyone got when they heard a *gong. Read back through the RAW threads leading up to his return and see how many posters Marked out. Take a look at the Legend killer story line and look at LC's post.
Your missing his point. He's not talking about quality technical wrestling; people watch wrestling mainly for the "competition" that takes place in the ring, the actual physical interaction between those involved in the feud. Half the time WWE seems to be spending way too much time building the feud without actual match interaction, and the other half they seem to not put any time into it at all. Storylines climax in the ring, that's where they're supposed to be settled, therefore the most important part of any storyline takes place between the ringings of the bell. You can have wrestling matches without storylines, but storylines without matches are called soap operas.
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Old 06-12-2004, 08:56 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdwaVer
Your missing his point. He's not talking about quality technical wrestling; people watch wrestling mainly for the "competition" that takes place in the ring, the actual physical interaction between those involved in the feud. Half the time WWE seems to be spending way too much time building the feud without actual match interaction, and the other half they seem to not put any time into it at all. Storylines climax in the ring, that's where they're supposed to be settled, therefore the most important part of any storyline takes place between the ringings of the bell. You can have wrestling matches without storylines, but storylines without matches are called soap operas.




Indeed but you cant have feuds without story lines. It would just be a booked match of two neutral characters in which you wouldnt know wether to Boo or cheer then again neither is face nor heel so why Boo or cheer? Basically it would be like watching a schools wrestling team go out and compete and your not for either school your just there to watch competition (also its not appropriate to boo at a wrestle meet)
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Old 06-12-2004, 09:25 AM   #23
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They should do away with Billy Gunn first.
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Old 06-12-2004, 09:46 AM   #24
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They should do away with Billy Gunn first.
The Mackem gets a ref
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Old 06-12-2004, 10:00 AM   #25
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Quote:
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The Mackem gets a ref
When can I expect my Earl Hebner?
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Old 06-12-2004, 12:36 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Radd


Did Your Order ...lets say Wrestlemania XX? If you did Why? for the great wrestling of the Undertaker? To see girls roll around on each other? To watch the Rock and Sock connection take on Evolution? Im sorry Rob but your wrong. Yes people enjoy seeing a good technical "wrestling" match But its the story that goes with it that we want. The Hype for takers return wasn't because he is a phenominal wrestler its his gimmick the excitment everyone got when they heard a *gong. Read back through the RAW threads leading up to his return and see how many posters Marked out. Take a look at the Legend killer story line and look at LC's post.
850,000 in the States bought Mania for the Undertaker's return? So it has nothing to do with seeing Benoit vs. HHH vs. Michaels, Guerrero vs. Angle, Christian vs. Jericho and Rock n'n Sock vs. Evolution?

That PPV had less storylines in it than most I can remember.
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Old 06-12-2004, 12:51 PM   #27
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Keep them, I'm fine with this system now.

BTW, I'm 10 points from being brilliant. Can somone good rep me? That person will receive a good rep back from me...
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Old 06-12-2004, 12:59 PM   #28
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You must spread some rep around before giving it to c4g2 again

sorry, I tried though
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Old 06-12-2004, 01:05 PM   #29
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Never mind though...
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Old 06-12-2004, 01:37 PM   #30
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Never mind though...
there you go
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Old 06-12-2004, 02:01 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
850,000 in the States bought Mania for the Undertaker's return? So it has nothing to do with seeing Benoit vs. HHH vs. Michaels, Guerrero vs. Angle, Christian vs. Jericho and Rock n'n Sock vs. Evolution?

That PPV had less storylines in it than most I can remember.

Christian Jericho was a match built on a storyline...the whole purpose of the match was to turn Trish heel. HHH vs. HBK with benoit on the side. The real match was to build the storyline of HHH and HBK's feud which is still going on. And yes the main reason alot of people bought the PPV was for the UNdertakers return. I order the PPV every month and for wrestlemania XX, 5 extra people came over just to see the Undertaker return. The point is you cant take the story lines out of wrestling and make everyone a face it will get stale and rtather boring.
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Old 06-12-2004, 03:20 PM   #32
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STORYLINES ARE THERE TO BUILD MATCHES!!!

Am I not saying it right? You are saying storylines define whether shows are good or not. I'm telling you they don't. People buy tickets to see wrestling. How many people do you know who buy tickets for house shows, TV tapings or PPV's to see storylines?
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Old 06-12-2004, 03:25 PM   #33
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House shows are cheaper and people buy tickets because its close to home and its a live event.

Storylines still go on at house shows usually a house show is a basic run through for the next tv event.

Example I was at the RAW in Pittsburgh Pa. where Booker T made his big return, the night before In West Virginia the whole RAW card was done at a house show in which I also attended. The return of Booker T The 8 man tag team match. Storylines are at house shows as they are on Raw and Smackdown.
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Old 06-12-2004, 03:26 PM   #34
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Who said anything about taking storylines out of wrestling? You think they define shows. In WCW, they did 2 Nitro's where there was a complete one hour of storylines. Those two shows had more negative feedback than any others. Smackdown did 2 shows last year which had less than 20 minutes of in ring wrestling (one of those shows only had one match and it didn't have an ending) and they were two of the worst received shows of the year.

I'm still saying that you need storylines to build matches but the end product and what sells is always wrestling. 5 of your mates coming to your house doesn't mean shit really to WWE because they only got 1 PPV buy out of it. 849,999 people bought that show for wrestling.

If you put one two shows this week, one with nothing buy storylines and the other with only wrestling, I'd put my life on the wrestling show during the better ratings. How much money do you think a PPV without good matches would draw nevermind one with no matches?
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Old 06-12-2004, 03:33 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
Who said anything about taking storylines out of wrestling? You think they define shows. In WCW, they did 2 Nitro's where there was a complete one hour of storylines. Those two shows had more negative feedback than any others. Smackdown did 2 shows last year which had less than 20 minutes of in ring wrestling (one of those shows only had one match and it didn't have an ending) and they were two of the worst received shows of the year.

I'm still saying that you need storylines to build matches but the end product and what sells is always wrestling. 5 of your mates coming to your house doesn't mean shit really to WWE because they only got 1 PPV buy out of it. 849,999 people bought that show for wrestling.

If you put one two shows this week, one with nothing buy storylines and the other with only wrestling, I'd put my life on the wrestling show during the better ratings. How much money do you think a PPV without good matches would draw nevermind one with no matches?


Takeing a storyline out is what defines a good guy and bad guy. Without the storylines there is no heel no face just straight up wrestling. If you take away everything that defines a face and a heel you would also have to take away gimmicks. Rico cant act flamboyant taker wont be the dead man. The Gimmick and the story that goes with the gimmick is what defines the heel and the face.

Your missing the point that the story lines is what makes the wrestling. If you have straight up wrestling like you say, nobody on the mic, no gimmicks nothing just to guys go to the ring and wrestle I guarentee that the company would go out of business there veiwers would strongly decrease in veiwing and eventualy the company would fold. With out story lines merchandise would drop. why would you buy a shirt that says "suck it" or 3:16? it wouldnt make sence. Bottom line is, without storylines wrestling wouldnt be what it is.
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