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Old 10-26-2012, 10:31 AM   #41
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But James Steele is acting like there is a obv number one contender who is getting fucked here.. Other than Hendo, there is no clear cut contender.. Sonnen is still a highly ranked fight with a huge draw and no one to fight.. As Vic said, this fight will be huge and the lead up, will prolly be the best season of TUF in a long time.. They get a huge main event and save their tv series all with one match..

So again, who is a better choice for this shot at this time??
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:35 AM   #42
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Chael's success against Silva came from him not believing the hype and stalking Silva down.. No one has done that to Bones yet.. Not saying Sonnen is gonna win, but acting like he has no chance is foolish..

p.s. remember he rocked Silva on the feet in both fights..
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:13 PM   #43
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What has Chael Sonnen done in the recent past to deserve a Light Heavyweight title shot other than losing to the best fighter in the world twice and being able to talk people into the building? Besides, you are completely missing my point. UFC will never break past boxing if it continues to just play buyrate bingo with its matchmaking. It works now, but hasn't Dana and co. said they want UFC to become ingrained into sports culture like the other major sports leagues? You can't do that when their is no unbiased process for determining who gets what oppurtunities. Yes, bigger market teams get better time slots or what have you but they aren't guaranteed a playoff spot or anything just because they were barely above .500 or upset a really good team in Week 3.
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:31 PM   #44
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So again, who is a better choice for this shot at this time??
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:34 PM   #45
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Anyone who has fought at 205 and won at 205 since 2008.
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:35 PM   #46
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Is Hendo's injury so bad that there is no way he could have a full camp before the fight?
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:37 PM   #47
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Like NBT said, Chael/Jones is manufactured and is just a ratings ploy for a reality show on its last legs because UFC drove it into the ground and hoping the best shit talker can build enough hype. It has nothing to do with Chael Sonnen being one of the best light heavyweight fighters in the world to earn this title shot.
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:38 PM   #48
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He has a torn meniscus..
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:41 PM   #49
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UFC has consistently done this and this will keep them from ever breaking through and being a legitimate sports league on the highest level. UFC has a good market and fan base and will keep them for the most part, but they have stretched themselves too thin and they need to find a way to build fights that people will either pay to see or watch on free TV without being about who is the most marketable or talks the most shit.
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:41 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
Like NBT said, Chael/Jones is manufactured and is just a ratings ploy for a reality show on its last legs because UFC drove it into the ground and hoping the best shit talker can build enough hype. It has nothing to do with Chael Sonnen being one of the best light heavyweight fighters in the world to earn this title shot.
I never said he was..

I can definantly see why they are doing it.. They did the same thing with Randy Couture coming in to beat Sylvia and letting Brock Lesnar fight for a title with under 5 pro fights.. Even letting him compete in the UFC with only one pro fight..

All those decisions were good ones..
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:42 PM   #51
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Would it be that hard to move the fight a little later and have Chael at least fight 1 fight at 205 before giving him a title shot?
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:46 PM   #52
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This is just like when Penn moved up to fight Hughes at 170lbs.. He was an elite 155lbs mainstay and they let him move up to go after Hughes WW Title..
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:47 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris P Lettus View Post
I never said he was..

I can definantly see why they are doing it.. They did the same thing with Randy Couture coming in the beat Sylvia and letting Brock Lesnar fight for a title with under 5 pro fights.. Even letting him compete in the UFC with only one pro fight..

All those decisions were good ones..
Short-term financial decisions yes, but long-term it makes them look no different than boxing. I can't take UFC seriously when they give title shots out tl fo whoever is willing to jump into a lava pit for Dana or talk shit and do whatever to get some buzz instead of actually winning to earn a title shot. UFC has people like you and the other hardcore fans nailed down. It is casuaans like me who they are trying to get and this makes me roll my eyes. It will be huge if Chael can upset it or make it close, but if Jones just beats the living fuck out of Chael then UFC looks like a fucking joke because there was no justification for putting him in that title fight.
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:47 PM   #54
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Would it be that hard to move the fight a little later and have Chael at least fight 1 fight at 205 before giving him a title shot?
does it matter? I still have no idea why some people have such a problem with this, guys get put in positions/fights they maybe don't deserve all the time, it's been happening for as long as MMA has existed. It's like saying Frankie Edgar should have to fight somebody else before fighting Aldo or that anybody else who's won at 145 is a better fight etc. It's semantics for the sake of semantics, complaints for the sake of complaints. It doesn't devalue the belt, it doesn't devalue the fighters and it doesn't devalue the sport so I just don't get the whining. As I said

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It's like a lot of you pretend that the UFC isn't a business for the sake of your arguments quite a lot.
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:48 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Kris P Lettus View Post
This is just like when Penn moved up to fight Hughes at 170lbs.. He was an elite 155lbs mainstay and they let him move up to go after Hughes WW Title..
Penn had beaten Hughes before at that weight class though and had been pretty successful before that barring a couple of fights.
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:49 PM   #56
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Short-term financial decisions yes, but long-term it makes them look no different than boxing. I can't take UFC seriously when they give title shots out tl fo whoever is willing to jump into a lava pit for Dana or talk shit and do whatever to get some buzz instead of actually winning to earn a title shot. UFC has people like you and the other hardcore fans nailed down. It is casuaans like me who they are trying to get and this makes me roll my eyes. It will be huge if Chael can upset it or make it close, but if Jones just beats the living fuck out of Chael then UFC looks like a fucking joke because there was no justification for putting him in that title fight.
And yet this has happened throughout the history of the UFC and you are still in here talking about it..

Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit..
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:52 PM   #57
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It's not bullshit. It's fucking reality. If that is how they want to be run, then they have pretty much grown as much as they are going to grow. I'm in here talking about it, but I've never ordered a UFC PPV. That is the whole point, right? Get more and more people interested enough in the sport to follow it like they do the the NFL or whatever and plop down $50 bucks every once in awhile.
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:52 PM   #58
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Penn had gone 6-0-1 before that fight. Slightly different.
and Chael is 5-2 in his last 7 with the 2 losses coming against the greatest fighter of all time and they include wins over 2 previous middleweight title contenders, 1 of whom is the current Strikeforce 170lbs champion and 2 potential/touted 185 contenders who are regarded as "top class" fighters. You're talking like it's Jason Brilz or somebody that has been slotted in to face JBJ or something.
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:56 PM   #59
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Quote:
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does it matter? I still have no idea why some people have such a problem with this, guys get put in positions/fights they maybe don't deserve all the time, it's being happening for as long as MMA has existed. It's like saying Frankie Edgar should have to fight somebody else before fighting Aldo or that anybody else who's won at 145 is a better fight etc. It's semantics for the sake of semantics, complaints for the sake of complaints. It doesn't devalue the belt, it doesn't devalue the fighters and it doesn't devalue the sport so I just don't get the whining. As I said
UFC being a business isn't a legitimate excuse for them not basing decisions on actual merit instead of financial ones. NFL is a fucking business too, but you don't see them denying the Browns a playoff spot and giving it to the Jets because the Jets would get more media coverage and get better ratings.
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:56 PM   #60
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Quote:
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Penn had beaten Hughes before at that weight class though and had been pretty successful before that barring a couple of fights.
Penn lost the inaugural UFC LW Title fight, then came back to beat some LW contenders before getting the shot at the WW Title.. The only thing that seperates these two storylines (besides 9 years) was the fact that Chael got a second shot at the MW title while Penn only got the one shot at Pulver..
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:59 PM   #61
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It's not bullshit. It's fucking reality. If that is how they want to be run, then they have pretty much grown as much as they are going to grow. I'm in here talking about it, but I've never ordered a UFC PPV. That is the whole point, right? Get more and more people interested enough in the sport to follow it like they do the the NFL or whatever and plop down $50 bucks every once in awhile.
The fact that you are arguing about it yet haven't watched a whole show kinda proves my point.. You are making out like this is a new thing yet it has been happening since the tourney style shows ended.. That was over a decade ago..
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:02 PM   #62
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and Chael is 5-2 in his last 7 with the 2 losses coming against the greatest fighter of all time and they include wins over 2 previous middleweight title contenders, 1 of whom is the current Strikeforce 170lbs champion and 2 potential/touted 185 contenders who are regarded as "top class" fighters. You're talking like it's Jason Brilz or somebody that has been slotted in to face JBJ or something.
I was wrong on that record for BJ Penn, but the bigger point was he had been successful at 170 before, beaten Hughes, and had at least fought at 170 again before his fight (and lost by decision).

Chael is 5-3 in his last 8 fights. He lost twice to the best MMA fighter in the world, but one of them was REALLY CLOSE so let's throw him in there with potentially the 2nd best fighter in the world (if not the best fighter in the world). Makes no sense other than Chael turning a PR nightmare into an opportunity for him. It is a fucking joke.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:02 PM   #63
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UFC being a business isn't a legitimate excuse for them not basing decisions on actual merit instead of financial ones. NFL is a fucking business too, but you don't see them denying the Browns a playoff spot and giving it to the Jets because the Jets would get more media coverage and get better ratings.
The NFL is based on a set tourney style schedule, the UFC is not.. Stop comparing apples to oranges..

UFC doing this is more like when the NFL gives good teams nationally televised primetime slots against other teams that draw big numbers.. Which they do with SNF, MNF, and the TWO flex games on every team's schedule every fucking year..
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:03 PM   #64
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The fact that you are arguing about it yet haven't watched a whole show kinda proves my point.. You are making out like this is a new thing yet it has been happening since the tourney style shows ended.. That was over a decade ago..
My point is people like me look at this shit and see it very similar to boxing. We all know boxing is full of bullshit and is in shambles other than a 2 fighters who won't fight each other.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:05 PM   #65
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UFC being a business isn't a legitimate excuse for them not basing decisions on actual merit instead of financial ones. NFL is a fucking business too, but you don't see them denying the Browns a playoff spot and giving it to the Jets because the Jets would get more media coverage and get better ratings.
you're still saying these things like the UFC and the NFL are even remotely comparable. And you're still talking like Chael Sonnen has no merit as a fighter whatsoever. Given how keen you are with these NFL analogies, do you really think Chael Sonnen is a guy that doesn't make the playoffs in this pseudo-NFLUFC world?
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:06 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Kris P Lettus View Post
The NFL is based on a set tourney style schedule, the UFC is not.. Stop comparing apples to oranges..

UFC doing this is more like when the NFL gives good teams nationally televised primetime slots against other teams that draw big numbers.. Which they do with SNF, MNF, and the TWO flex games on every team's schedule every fucking year..
Championship fights should be treated as something fucking important and earned in the octagon just like a playoff spot. You put big non-title fights and hype the fuck out of them with storylines or whatever, but you championship fights should be between the undisputed best fighters in the world at that weight class. Is Chael Sonnen that? Fucking wait and give Hendo his rightful shot. Hendo should be pissed and I'm glad he tweeted that to Dana.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:09 PM   #67
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you're still saying these things like the UFC and the NFL are even remotely comparable. And you're still talking like Chael Sonnen has no merit as a fighter whatsoever. Given how keen you are with these NFL analogies, do you really think Chael Sonnen is a guy that doesn't make the playoffs in this pseudo-NFLUFC world?
This would be like giving the Cowboys a AFC playoff spot over a good small-market AFC team because of marketability. Whats the point of even fighting in weight classes if you can just talk shit and get a title shot in the next class. Chael is a good fighter, but he does not deserve this title shot. If it wasn't so fucking blatant why he is getting this title shot then it wouldn't be that big of a deal. You can't seriously say that they booked Sonnen/Jones because they are the 2 best light heavyweights in the world and we are going to find out who is the better fighter.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:11 PM   #68
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Quote:
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My point is people like me look at this shit and see it very similar to boxing. We all know boxing is full of bullshit and is in shambles other than a 2 fighters who won't fight each other.
People like you have no idea what you are talking about..

p.s. Penn had NEVER COMPETED at welterweight before he moved up to fight Hughes at UFC 47, FYI..
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:14 PM   #69
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Can y'all seriously not understand where a casual fan is coming from with this? UFC tells me how they are the fastest growing sport in the world and how they are the hottest league in all of sports. They tell me they are nothing like boxing that is generally looked at with a suspicious eye, but then they turn around and give a good fighter a title shot out of nowhere other than he took advantage of a PR opportunity? I can't take UFC seriously when they do this shit and they have always done it which is why I have never taken them as seriously as I do "real sports leagues" that they claim to be like.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:15 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris P Lettus View Post
People like you have no idea what you are talking about..

p.s. Penn had NEVER COMPETED at welterweight before he moved up to fight Hughes at UFC 47, FYI..
Thought you were talking about 63. 05/06 is when I started following MMA.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:20 PM   #71
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There are millions of things that go into matchmaking.. And yes, marketablity is a big one.. Dana White has always said he makes fights the fans want to see.. After the UFC 151 shitfest, the fans want to see this fight.. Jones needs this fight b/c he turned it down and looked weak for it.. Sonnen needs this fight b/c of the losses to Silva.. The UFC needs this fight for their quarter year superfight.. And I , for one, am looking forward to it..
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:20 PM   #72
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Quote:
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People like you have no idea what you are talking about.
It doesn't matter if I do or don't. Most jackasses don't know what they are talking about with any sport. Perception is reality, and for a sport trying to expand and grow into one of the major mainstay sports in the world they need to make better decisions regarding the sanctity of their championships. If the championships don't really matter because you'll just throw the best draw out there anyway then whats the fucking point of the whole thing?
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:20 PM   #73
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This would be like giving the Cowboys a AFC playoff spot over a good small-market AFC team because of marketability. Whats the point of even fighting in weight classes if you can just talk shit and get a title shot in the next class. Chael is a good fighter, but he does not deserve this title shot. If it wasn't so fucking blatant why he is getting this title shot then it wouldn't be that big of a deal. You can't seriously say that they booked Sonnen/Jones because they are the 2 best light heavyweights in the world and we are going to find out who is the better fighter.
not it's not. The Cowboys are shit. Chael Sonnen is world class. He's just happens to fight in the same 2 weight classes as the greatest fighter ever and the potential "next greatest fighter ever" at a time when they are both currently possibly the most dominant champions in the history of the sport. And nobody at all is claiming it's because they're the best 2 LHW's. If he'd stepped over a bunch of other worthy contenders, I'd completely agree with you. But that's not the case. He's no less of a viable challenger than any of JBJ's previous defences.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:22 PM   #74
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63 was their second fight.. Why would I be talking bout that one when I'm making a case for guys getting title shots first off why moving up a weight class??
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:23 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris P Lettus View Post
There are millions of things that go into matchmaking.. And yes, marketablity is a big one.. Dana White has always said he makes fights the fans want to see.. After the UFC 151 shitfest, the fans want to see this fight.. Jones needs this fight b/c he turned it down and looked weak for it.. Sonnen needs this fight b/c of the losses to Silva.. The UFC needs this fight for their quarter year superfight.. And I , for one, am looking forward to it..
I have no doubt it will be a hyped up fight a lot of people will want to see, and I bet Chael doesn't look like a idiot but the championship is irrelevant in this fight. Like I said, if the title fights are irrelevant because the champ is either fighting the biggest draw or fighting an opponent deemed not necessarily worthy of the title shot all the time then whats the fucking point? Fuck the titles and just book supercards every few months.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:23 PM   #76
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The Cowboys are shit. Chael Sonnen is world class.
LOL

This is going in my sig..
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:25 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris P Lettus View Post
63 was their second fight.. Why would I be talking bout that one when I'm making a case for guys getting title shots first off why moving up a weight class??
Somebody had said something about Chael fighting at LHW before and then moving around weight classes and now he is going back to LHW. Thought that was the context.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:25 PM   #78
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Quote:
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I have no doubt it will be a hyped up fight a lot of people will want to see, and I bet Chael doesn't look like a idiot but the championship is irrelevant in this fight. Like I said, if the title fights are irrelevant because the champ is either fighting the biggest draw or fighting an opponent deemed not necessarily worthy of the title shot all the time then whats the fucking point? Fuck the titles and just book supercards every few months.
I'm gonna link this to Lorenzo Fertitta and Dan White so they can learn from you, someone who has never watched a whole show, how to run a successful MMA promotion..
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:26 PM   #79
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Send it to them. I'm sure Dana will cuss me out like the unprofessional twat he is and then talk about how he could whoop my ass.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:27 PM   #80
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I'm gonna link this to Lorenzo Fertitta and Dan White so they can learn from you, someone who has never watched a whole show, how to run a successful MMA promotion..
I have watched whole shows. I've just never paid to see one.
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