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Old 12-13-2012, 01:44 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
You're off on a tangent now, Jabba.

I'm just talking about storytelling based on a signature move. You can't knock Orton's psychology because of one move you find unrealistic without knocking a shitload of guys who you'd probably agree are great.
First of all, we can't knock Orton's in-ring psychology because he doesn't have any. Secondly, Jab pointed out the complete nonsense of Orton's general move-set -- outside of the wrestling classic that is "walk around your downed opponent and step on his appendages", but that's just technical mastery.

And again, we've both said we'd knock anybody who clings to a blatantly unbelievable move, so what the hell is your position?
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:44 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesgonnakillyou View Post
Orton's not the most technical or spectacular guy in the ring, but as no 1 wwf fan said he's the best storyteller.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJabbaNoBogRoll View Post
Balancing a barely stunned opponent on the middle rope, by their feet, for sometimes up to ten seconds, is some pretty smooth storytelling.

I couldn't stay away.
Jabba was using a move that he found particuarly unrealistic as a knock on Orton's storytelling ability. Therefore I'm making the point that you'd have to knock a lot of guys based on that.

Better?
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:45 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife View Post
First of all, we can't knock Orton's in-ring psychology because he doesn't have any.
lol. Best argument I've heard all day.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:46 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
I was just bringing it up because it was a point I made that got ignored. Taker is a guy who has an unrealistic signature move and you're asked to remember it's not real. It's not meant to be judged like a real fight.
...So?
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:49 PM   #85
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So you don't think Taker is a good storyteller.

The British Bulldog did a stalling suplex. Another move that requires the guy he's suplexing to keep perfect balance as just shifting his weight slightly would fuck it up. So he's a shitty storyteller.

Mysterio, we've discussed. Shitty storyteller.

Would you agree to all these?
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:50 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Jabba was using a move that he found particuarly unrealistic as a knock on Orton's storytelling ability. Therefore I'm making the point that you'd have to knock a lot of guys based on that.

Better?
I'd be happy to knock more guys who have a bad move, or bad aspect of their in-ring style, but I wouldn't want to go on another completely unwarranted and unrequested tangent, would I?
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:52 PM   #87
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If you're not clinging to one move to knock a guy's body of work then I'M NOT DIRECTING IT TO YOU! I'm arguing Jabba's point. lol

If you ARE doing that, then that's a silly knock on a pro wrestler.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:54 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
So you don't think Taker is a good storyteller.

The British Bulldog did a stalling suplex. Another move that requires the guy he's suplexing to keep perfect balance as just shifting his weight slightly would fuck it up. So he's a shitty storyteller.

Mysterio, we've discussed. Shitty storyteller.

Would you agree to all these.
I still don't get what point you're arguing that we'e not agreed to. I already said there are more things I'd hold against taker than the Old School thing. So...yeah, I'm sure there's better than him.

However, you're still acting like anything in Orton's arsenal isn't cringe-worthy outside of his backbreaker, and even that's had bad days. Orton's a bad storyteller because he's a bad professional wrestler.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:55 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJabbaNoBogRoll View Post
I'd be happy to knock more guys who have a bad move, or bad aspect of their in-ring style, but I wouldn't want to go on another completely unwarranted and unrequested tangent, would I?
I'm simply saying that one move is no different than moves that guys whose ability I'm sure you respect perform. Like I said, knocking a pro wrestler's ability for it is silly.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:56 PM   #90
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I dunno, Orton was pretty good at punching the mat... prior to his shoulder injuries. Now that just looks embarrassing.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:56 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife View Post

However, you're still acting like anything in Orton's arsenal isn't cringe-worthy outside of his backbreaker, and even that's had bad days. Orton's a bad storyteller because he's a bad professional wrestler.
You find the RKO cringe-worthy??
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:56 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
You find the RKO cringe-worthy??
Yip.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:57 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
I'm simply saying that one move is no different than moves that guys whose ability I'm sure you respect perform. Like I said, knocking a pro wrestler's ability for it is silly.
Which is why I have way more problems with Orton than just his middle rope DDT, before claiming he's an awful wrestler.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:57 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJabbaNoBogRoll View Post
I dunno, Orton was pretty good at punching the mat... prior to his shoulder injuries. Now that just looks embarrassing.
Yeah I think HBK was better at stomping the mat before SCM when he was younger too. Embarrassing. Grown man stomping the mat. That hack.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:01 PM   #95
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I missed the show where HBK blew out his hip while hyping his superkick.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:03 PM   #96
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The reason he's a fucking awesome storyteller is because he does shit for a reason. His Mark Henry matches were a good example. They weren't the typical WWE paint-by-numbers matches everyone was doing. Especially the Hell in a Cell match. It made Henry look like a million bucks. Orton played the "mega-face" who just gave everything he had but couldn't quite overcome the monster in the end and the entire match built up to that finish. He seems to understand the fact that a wresting match isn't just a bunch of meaningless shit thrown together for 15 minutes before a minute long finishing sequence.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:04 PM   #97
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I don't recall ever thinking "HBK is holding back at stomping the floor, because he's scared to injure himself, to the extent that it looks silly and pointless".
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:05 PM   #98
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Yeah. Orton really gets pro wrestling.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:05 PM   #99
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Quote:
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Orton played the "mega-face" who just gave everything he had but couldn't quite overcome the monster in the end
So Orton's stellar storytelling ability is really just the way he's booked?
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:06 PM   #100
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There's like... a paragraph there. You should read it.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:07 PM   #101
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It talks about how he played the role. Kind of the important part.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:08 PM   #102
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Quote:
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Yeah. Orton really gets pro wrestling.
I'm glad we could finally come to this agreement.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:09 PM   #103
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I was being sarcastic. Probably should have told you.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:13 PM   #104
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The irony in that post is fucking amazing. lol
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:14 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
There's like... a paragraph there. You should read it.
I'll remember to quote the entire post next time, so it doesn't appear that I'm skimming you.

Any wrestler can tell a story they're handed, via booking. If someone took a dump in Orton's bag, live on Raw, I expect even he could pull off "wrestling angry" on Smackdown. That doesn't make him a good storyteller.

He doesn't make me believe in any of his moves, or where/when/why/how he executes them. I don't feel pulled into the show, when I'm watching Randy Orton "wrestle".
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:23 PM   #106
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Not any wrestler can tell a story they're handed via booking. If that's the case, there's no difference between The Great Khali and Ric Flair outside of how they're booked. There's a typical "we've got 15 minutes to waste before we 'go home'" match and then there's actually doing everything for a reason that helps lead to a climax.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:25 PM   #107
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There's like... kind of three paragraphs there. You should read them.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:26 PM   #108
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:08 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJabbaNoBogRoll View Post
There's like... kind of three paragraphs there. You should read them.
lol... You want me to reply to the rest of that deep and very precise argument you laid out? Alright, one second...
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:09 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJabbaNoBogRoll View Post

He doesn't make me believe in any of his moves, or where/when/why/how he executes them. I don't feel pulled into the show, when I'm watching Randy Orton "wrestle".
Welp... I do. And a lot of other people do. Including wrestlers who list Orton as one of if not the best psychologist.

So uh... I find your opinion to be shit.

lol. Seriously don't know what other response you want from a way you do or don't feel...
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:47 PM   #111
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Popular opinion happens to be wrong, in this instance. It's not that uncommon.
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:35 PM   #112
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You know whose matches make sense?

Antonio Cesaro
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:40 PM   #113
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I was gonna guess Sin Cara, but I guess Cesaro works too.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:13 PM   #114
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Cesaro seems pretty good in the ring, but I haven't seen enough to say he's the best just yet.

I can say that they need to pick a good character for him, and stick with it, instead of experimenting with different things while he's a champion. Isn't that what developmental is supposed to be for?

No sooner did they change his music to a suitable lady's man theme, did he immediately ditch the woman on his arm. I'm glad they're toning down the five languages thing, though.

Also, his finisher is seemingly the least impressive move that he does. The knee-tralizer, as I like to call it, seems to only attack the most padded part of his opponent's body. He has plenty of other impressive moves I'd rather see as his finisher.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:45 PM   #115
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Quote:
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Popular opinion happens to be wrong, in this instance.
Nuh uh
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:10 PM   #116
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Cesaro may not be the best in ring performer yet but his workrate far surpasses any that Randy Orton has had in his career except when transitioning from heel/face for the first time. By far Orton was at his best then for me. Besides ADR and CM Punk being top workrates and best in the ring. Cesaro and Daniel Bryan are nipping close behind on their heels.
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:12 PM   #117
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Cesaro's theme is pretty boss, too. I don't understand any of it, but it's got a nice feel to it. I'm pretty sure they used a sample from Dean Malenko's 007 theme in it too, which is bonus points in my book.
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:15 PM   #118
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:19 PM   #119
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Yeah, but listen:
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:20 PM   #120
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lol it says "arousing" in his tron.
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