The Evolution Of Orton: The Elusive Wrestlemania Moment Thread

[Schlomey]

I recently watched The Evolution of Randy Orton on Netflix. He spent time in his video talking about never being satisfied with his in-ring work, especially at Wrestlemania. He went on to say that he feels like he has never really had a Mark Out Wrestlemania Moment which led me to this thread.
I just finished watching and live reviewing every Orton match from every Wrestlemania since his debut at Wrestlemania 20 to decide for myself. Has Orton had a great Wrestlemania match? Has he captivated the audience and delivered a “moment of a lifetime” Wrestlemania Moment? Read on and see my point of view and enjoy the matches with links below and decide for yourself.
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Rock & Sock Connection vs Evolution – Wrestlemania 20

The Rock & Mick Foley vs Evolution part 1... by Rocky_TheRock_Maivia

The Rock & Mick Foley vs Evolution part 2... by Rocky_TheRock_Maivia
This was Randy Orton’s first Wrestlemania event. The feud was good and it really helped get Orton over by having legends such as Flair, Rock & Foley to work with. Orton drew good heat when he made his way into the match especially after he left the ring when Foley got the tag. His in ring work is a lot different than it is today. He is kind of generic and works at a faster pace than he does these days. Half way through the match I am noticing that Orton is the blandest character in this match. Flair has his strut and his WOOOOO, Foley has his Bang Bang, The Rock has everything, hell even Batista has his rope shaking and flexing. Orton really doesn’t stand out but maybe that is a good thing since he was so obviously green at this event. As Foley pulled out the sock Randy Orton his a vicious RKO out of nowhere for the win giving him a major rub from this match of legends (and Batista).

Final Thought: I had never seen this match. I loved it. The best parts featured Ric Flair and The Rock and sadly Orton was an afterthought until the very end. Orton spent very little time in the ring but did come out of this looking strong getting the pin on Foley. A great start to the career of Orton and with his lack o f experience I feel that he did exactly the job he needed to do here.

Match Rating: 8/10
Randy Rating: 5/10
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Randy Orton vs The Undertaker – Wrestlemania 21

The Undertaker Vs Randy Orton Wrestlemania 21... by WWETNAHDUploader

The Legend Killer vs The Streak. Orton had a lot riding on this match. For Randy to have this opportunity so early in his career it really was a big rub and showed the confidence that the WWE had in Orton. The big match feel was present in the air and the arena but I don’t think anyone thought Orton would get the win. To me, it wasn’t about him getting the win as much as it was to prove himself as a solo competitor in the spotlight of Wrestlemania and to see if he could hang by himself in a “big match” environment. Undertaker did a great job at getting Orton over by selling his work and really making the RKO seem like a threat that could be hit at any time. Once Orton got the upper hand he stopped and did his patented pose and the crowd responded with a lot of heel heat and a decent “Orton Sucks” chant. The crowd is really into this match. The interference of his father “Cowboy” Bob Orton brought even more heat to the conclusion of this match but once the Undertaker sat up it was over for Orton, even after a reversal RKO out of nowhere.

Final Thoughts: I’d like to say that Orton took Undertaker to the limit but we all know now what Undertaker’s limit is at Wrestlemania. While this match will fall in the middle of the pack for Undertaker fans this will go down as the night Randy Orton solidified himself as a main event player. The last 5 minutes of this match was easily 5 of the greatest minutes of his career. This may be as close to a Wrestlemania moment as he ever got.

Match Rating: 7/10
Randy Rating: 8/10
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Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio vs Kurt Angle – Wrestlemania 22

Wrestlemania 22 Kurt angle vs Rey Mysterio vs... by deminatrix
First off I want to say that I absolutely LOVED Randy’s entrance with the pose and the pyro. A very cocky Randy Orton made his way into the ring for this World Heavyweight Title Triple Threat match. This was a very fast paced match and the crowd was hot as always in Chicago. The best parts of this match mostly featured Angle and Mysterio but Orton delivered an RKO out of nowhere on Angle mid-match that really had the crowd hot. The match was so fast paced that it felt over before it began. So many close calls that when Mysterio got the win over Orton I totally expected another kick out. Wish this match would have continued a few more minutes but I did enjoy every second of it.

Final Thought: No “Wrestlemania Moment” for Orton in this match as he was mostly an afterthought when compared to the performances of Angle and Mysterio. But obviously with the passing of Eddie Guerrero Mysterio was booked strong.

Match Rating: 8/10
Randy Rating: 5/10
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Money In The Bank Ladder Match – Wrestlemania 23

Money in the Bank from Wrestlemania 23 by Fox-Watcher
One of my favorite matches of the year, Randy Orton stepped away from the main event scene and joined the likes of Edge, Hardy, Booker T and Mr. Kennedy in the Money in the Bank ladder match. Within a minute of the bell, Orton found himself on the top of the ladder with Finlay but sadly a botched spot quieted the crowd. Not a great start for Orton and after that he was out of the spotlight for the next several minutes. 7 minutes into the match and Orton has yet to do anything besides take a spinebuster, a spear and get hit with a ladder. Obviously there were some Wrestlemania Moments to happen during this match but nothing compares to Jeff Hardy taking out Edge from atop a ladder though a ladder on the arena floor. At the half way point Randy Orton did start gaining some momentum by going on an RKO streak but nothing came of it until Orton delivered an RKO to CM Punk from atop a ladder leading to Randy getting squashed by Booker and returned to the arena floor. That was the last time Randy was part of the match.

Final Thought: While he didn’t achieve the briefcase and he spent most of the match on the arena floor I will be nice and say that the RKO to Punk from the top of the ladder was CLOSE to a Wrestlemania Moment but sadly even that was overshadowed by Jeff Hardy and Edge.

Match Rating: 8/10
Randy Rating: 4/10
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Randy Orton vs HHH vs John Cena – Wrestlemania 24

This is a non-main event Triple Threat match for the WWE Championship. Sadly it had to follow Flair vs HBK in what would be Flair’s retirement. Randy walked in to this huge match as the reigning WWE champion so he had that going for him. As soon as the bell rang Orton drew instant heat by attacking HHH with a championship belt shot to the face. Not often that these 3 guys don’t go on last especially with the WWE championship on the line. Mid match I’m finally starting to see hints of Orton acting like the Viper. Slow, plodding and using some of his now-standard moves. While Cena was on HHH’s shoulders Orton delivered a very effective cross body block from the top rope. Nothing special but definitely not something we see often from Orton. You can tell he is more intense and trying to steal the show and that is exactly what he needed to do. Orton delivered a 2nd rope DDT on both men and then got in to the now infamous strike position. First time I have seen that thus far. Orton hit a mid match RKO (again out of nowhere) on HHH moments before Cena hit Super Cena status and locked Orton in the STF(u). Orton then spent the rest of the match hurt from the STF until the almost shocking punt on HHH and covering Cena for the 3 count.

Final Thoughts: A really strong match by all 3 guys but did lack the big match feel from other encounters I have already watched. All 3 men took turns being alpha male in this match so pin-pointing the best performance is impossible. I will say that Randy was more aggressive than he is lately and worked at a faster pace for most of the match. Enjoyable match and I feel it was one of Orton’s best matches.

Match Rating: 7/10
Randy Rating: 7/10
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Randy Orton vs HHH – Wrestlemania 25

Right off the bat before I even start the match I have a few comments. This match should never have followed Undertaker vs HBK. I don’t think the WWE knew what they were getting themselves into when they did that. Also, I remember this feud very well. By the time Wrestlemania came around the feud had been going on for what seemed like a lifetime and by Wrestlemania I remember already “being over it”. It’s been a few years so I’m excited to get into this match and see how it goes as a standalone main event and not the match that followed HBK vs Taker.
The 5 minute video package before the match really set the stage for this huge match. The creation of Orton’s patented punt kick happened during the build to Wrestlemania and it was obviously at the forefront of this match. Within the first 2 minutes of the match HHH hit Orton with a Pedigree but not before Randy hit an RKO. This match is the first time we see Orton as he is today in full force, slow, plodding, cold, calculating and intense. By the middle of the match the tempo has slowed down to the typical snail’s pace of most of Orton’s matches these days. Loads of rest holds and stalking going on here. By the 2/3rds mark the crowd is silent until Orton rears back for the punt but as soon as he doesn’t connect we are back to crickets in Texas. The match moves to the outside and even a table spot didn’t go as planned as the table didn’t break to give the fans something to cheer for. Back in the ring Randy takes control for the next several minutes until the Game hits Orton with Sledgie and then a Pedigree for the win.

Final Thoughts: This match should not have main evented a Wrestlemania. Any other PPV this match would probably have been considered a classic but for Mania it lacked feeling, emotion and was too damn long for as slow as they were working. It had built in emotion and feeling so for them to loose that during the match was very sad to see. This would also prove to be Randy’s last shot at main eventing Wrestemania to this very day.

Match Rating: 5/10
Randy Rating: 4/10
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Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes vs Ted DiBiase – Wrestlemania 26

From main eventing the Silver Anniversary of Wrestlemania to bottom of the card, Randy Orton took a severe nose dive in the hierarchy of WWE. After Legacy split this match was booked for Wrestlemania pitting Orton vs Rhodes and DiBiase as basically a handicapped match even though it was called a triple threat.
DiBiase and Rhodes worked over Orton in “pack of dog” style for the first several minutes of this match. I will say that Orton did a great job of getting Cody and Ted over by selling all of their work. By the half way mark the cohesiveness of Ted & Cody fell apart and it became a true Triple Threat match and Orton took over while the crowd cheered loudly for him. Michael Cole announced “we’ve never seen this!” as Orton hit the other guys with a double rope hung DDT. As you have already read it happened against Cena and HHH just 2 years prior at Wrestlemania. Orton coils and thinks PUNT as the crowd gets behind him. This is the most over Orton has been at Wrestlemania thus far which is shocking how far he had dropped in the card. Orton hits DiBiase with the RKO and it’s over.

Final Thought: This was a good match. It had great card placement for what they wanted to accomplish and even though Orton won, all 3 guys had really good showings. Nothing special, though. This match could have happened at any PPV with similar results but Orton did the best he could with what he was given.

Match Rating: 6/10
Randy Rating: 6/10
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Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Wrestlemania 27

Cm Punk Vs Randy Orton WWE Wrestlemania XXVII 2011 by dm_4ff32973a7357

Another grudge match similar to last year we have Orton (face) vs CM Punk (Nexus heel leader) in a redemption match after Punk cost Orton the title at Royal Rumble against The Miz. This match landed right in the middle of the card which I feel is where it belonged. It was a standard 1 on 1 match featuring both guys performing their top moves but neither guy really doing anything worth of a Wrestlemania Moment. Punk spent the majority of the match working over Ortons hurt leg and Orton spent the majority of the match selling the pain even on his offense. Best moment occurred when Punk came near a down Orton and pulled away within a second of getting hit with the RKO. Punk smiled it off and attempted a top rope maneuver but ended up getting caught with a mid air RKO (out of nowhere) for the win.

Final Thoughts: A good match with a great finish. Happy it was a Wrestlemania mid card match and really featured the strengths of both of these guys. The RKO from the top rope was sudden as it should be and really popped the crowd. I’m on the edge calling it a Wrestlemania Moment since we had seen that before a few times and some even better (looking at you Evan Bourne). Since it was awesome but not the first time we seen it I’ll be an asshole and say, not quite.

Match Rating: 7/10
Randy Rating: 6/10
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Randy Orton vs Kane – Wrestlemania 28
No embed: http://www.video.az/en/video/26058/W...ne-2012-part-1

The bottom of the barrel for Randy Orton here. Kane attacked Orton after he was disgusted with himself for shaking Randy’s hand a long ass time ago. That’s basically it. The action was slow and plodding by both men and really strikes me as a TV match more than a Wrestlemania match. Kane dominated most of the match with Orton getting in some offense leading to nothing more than Orton getting off his standard moves. Orton missed a punt and then the action reached the top rope where Kane delivered a 2nd chokeslam, this time from the top rope of course, for the win.

Final Thoughts: Randy did not have a good showing. They were trying to book Kane strong since his return to WWE after a short absence and return with the mask. His heel turn lasted all of 2 feuds before the WWE gave up and paired him with Daniel Bryan. This match was barely good enough for free TV and only the final move of the match really made it feel “big”.

Match Rating: 4/10
Randy Rating: 4/10
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So after reviewing all of Randy Orton’s Wrestlemania matches I will not disagree with him. He really hasn’t had a spectacular string of Wrestlemania matches and hasn’t achieved that elusive Wrestlemania Moment he so desperately wants. He has came close on several occasions but most of them happened very early on in his career.
Which leads to this question: Will Randy Orton ever main event a Wrestlemania again and does his style of wrestling come with a built in Wrestlemania Moment?

[Savio]

I would say he started off really well but then peter'd out.

[Schlomey]

That is basically a shortened version of my extremely long winded answer.

[mike adamle]

Maybe he'll win the world title at mania this year. But then that'd be overshadowed by Dolph cashing in. Nope don't see it happening this year either, Randy!

[mike adamle]

Schlomey are you ignoring me, you stuck up Jew?

[Schlomey]

Originally Posted by mike adamle Maybe he'll win the world title at mania this year. But then that'd be overshadowed by Dolph cashing in. Nope don't see it happening this year either, Randy!

I can see Orton entering the Elimination Chamber and facing someone at Mania for the WHC but it'll be mid card at best. I hope he turns heel but that would probably lead to Del Rio vs Orton which is an awful WM thought.

Originally Posted by mike adamle Schlomey are you ignoring me, you stuck up Jew?

no and there is no reason for that here.

[Lock Jaw]

I'd say his strongest stretch was WM24-26 where he was beginning to develop his cold blooded Viper character, and then WM26 cementing his big face turn which continues to this day.

However, this directly lead to probably his worst stretch, WM27/28 where he pretty much got John Cena's sloppy seconds. Punk and Kane were both feuding with Cena before going to Orton. At least Kane's feud with Cena at least came to an "end". The year before, Punk pretty much just dropped his beef with Cena out of nowhere because Mania was coming up and they wanted him to fight Orton.

[Lock Jaw]

His WM21 showing would have been a lot stronger (in my eyes) if he hadn't lost a whole lot of his momentum with his disastrous face turn. I have to say though, that WM21 is the last time that I legitimately thought that they might have Undertaker lose.

[Schlomey]

Originally Posted by Lock Jaw I'd say his strongest stretch was WM24-26 where he was beginning to develop his cold blooded Viper character, and then WM26 cementing his big face turn which continues to this day. However, this directly lead to probably his worst stretch, WM27/28 where he pretty much got John Cena's sloppy seconds. Punk and Kane were both feuding with Cena before going to Orton. At least Kane's feud with Cena at least came to an "end". The year before, Punk pretty much just dropped his beef with Cena out of nowhere because Mania was coming up and they wanted him to fight Orton.

The fact that his beef with Orton was for a punt to the head 2 years prior with a group that hadn't existed in over a year...Yea kind of a stretch but it lead to a good mid card match.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Savior I would say he started off really well but then peter'd out.

I wonder if he just reached his "ceiling", his "peak", or if it's just that after so much success, so fast, he just doesn't have the same passion.

[DrCrawford]

orton bores the hell out of me. on the mic, in the ring, his gimmick, his song. his shitty rko

the only way id mark out is if he spontaneously combusted in the ring

[Schlomey]

Originally Posted by DrCrawford orton bores the hell out of me. on the mic, in the ring, his gimmick, his song. his shitty rko the only way id mark out is if he spontaneously combusted in the ring

Somewhat agree. I do think he has been a part of several great matches but sadly as you read above you will see that most of the time he is not the reason they are great.

[Emperor Smeat]

Never really thought about it before but it does seem odd he's missing that big Mania moment all the other big stars have.

Also odd how the WWE never really bothered to make Cena vs Orton occur at Mania even though for a while they kept pushing their rivalry as the next Stone Cold vs Rock type.

His match against Taker was his best chance at having a Mania moment and having the streak be used to rub off a young wrestler.

[The Condor]

#legitimization

[Savio]

Originally Posted by Smelly Meatball Taker...used to rub off a young wrestler.

You're thinking of Pat Patterson.

[James Diesel]

He's been in 3 main events, fought the Undertaker, and beat the Best In The World. He needs to quit throwing fits and realize that his problem is his laziness and attitude. Congrats, he quit doing the drugs and shit. And then he didn't change anything. Be more energetic. For fuck's sake, be entertaining. You don't get shit by coasting.

[Tommy Gunn]

When he progressed from rest-hold Orton to the star jumping, DDT in the ropes, catch-RKO Orton, he entertained me to no end.

Now he's gotten dull again, and he doesn't really get any major storylines, because he keeps losing momentum from being off TV so often. He's developing Rey Mysterio-syndrome.

[Flash Funk]

A lot of good points in here, but by no means do I think we have seen the last of Randy Orton in main events. He will get his Mania moment sometime, maybe against Austin if he really does have a couple of matches left in him.

[mike adamle]

Randy Orton has already peaked. He's not gonna be any better than he is right now.

[mike adamle]

Originally Posted by Flash Funk A lot of good points in here, but by no means do I think we have seen the last of Randy Orton in main events. He will get his Mania moment sometime, maybe against Austin if he really does have a couple of matches left in him.

They wouldn't waste Austin on Randy Orton

[Schlomey]

Originally Posted by mike adamle Randy Orton has already peaked. He's not gonna be any better than he is right now.

Although things change at the drop of a hat, if you follow his career like I did today it's easier to agree with this than guess a different path.

[James Diesel]

Best case scenario, he gets another World Title, loses it, takes it to heart, 3rd strike.

Worst case scenario, 3rd strike.

[CSL]

Originally Posted by James Diesel He's been in 3 main events, fought the Undertaker, and beat the Best In The World. He needs to quit throwing fits and realize that his problem is his laziness and attitude. Congrats, he quit doing the drugs and shit. And then he didn't change anything. Be more energetic. For fuck's sake, be entertaining. You don't get shit by coasting.

very strange post

Originally Posted by mike adamle Randy Orton has already peaked. He's not gonna be any better than he is right now.

whilst this simply isn't true and is complete conjecture on your part, even if that were the case, it wouldn't really matter given that he's excellent

[Schlomey]

Originally Posted by James Diesel Best case scenario, he gets another World Title, loses it, takes it to heart, 3rd strike. Worst case scenario, 3rd strike.

Another likely trend but regardless I never see him main eventing wrestlemania again unless its a multi man scenario.

[CSL]

still pop for chokeslam into the RKO

[mike adamle]

Originally Posted by Schlomey Although things change at the drop of a hat, if you follow his career like I did today it's easier to agree with this than guess a different path.

Around 2007-2008 it looked like Cena and Orton were gonna be the franchise players for years to come. Now? CM Punk has far and away surpassed Orton and Cena's at a level of his own. More or less looks like Punk took Orton's spot.

[James Diesel]

Originally Posted by CSL very strange post

Define strange

[Theo Dious]

I have feared for a long time that Orton was going to end up in the "too much too soon" category. His first Wrestlemania match had the Rock and Ric Flair in it for fuck's sake, there wasn't much more to do after that.

[Schlomey]

Originally Posted by Tedious I have feared for a long time that Orton was going to end up in the "too much too soon" category. His first Wrestlemania match had the Rock and Ric Flair in it for fuck's sake, there wasn't much more to do after that.

But he was a small nut in a giant cog. It got bigger and bigger and now it's cooled off.

A big question is why is he so popular with crowds? His matches, especially on tv are slow. He has zero personality when compared to the other fan favorites and he also comes and goes very frequently.

Other than women who find him hot for the life of me I can't understand his overness.

[Ultra Mantis]

He's booked strong and he has the best / most versatile finish on the roster. Plus he has the attitude of a teenage boy. Relatability and all that.

[Schlomey]

*shrugs

Guess I just don't get it

[Keith]

Maybe Randy Orton is just one of those guys that wrestles because he likes it, because it's better than having an 8-hour job, because it brings you fame and you make some pretty good dough.

It's probable he's content with all he's done, and he's not hungry for more. It happens sometimes. You've got to have a certain tenacity in order to get to "that" next level where, for example (just to mention someone who has gone to "that" level relatively recently), John Cena resides.

Orton has a wife, he's got a little girl. Maybe he's satisfied with what he's done and how his career has gone.

[The Condor]

He has plateaued over the course of the last 3 years or so. He doesn't seem to care. Therefore, I don't care.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

He's just waiting for strike three cause they won't fire him otherwise.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon He's just waiting for strike three cause they won't fire him otherwise.

You think he's just riding it out?

[Schlomey]

Originally Posted by Crazy Edgar He has plateaued over the course of the last 3 years or so. He doesn't seem to care. Therefore, I don't care.

Since Legacy ended I haven't cared much at all and even Legacy turned out to be a bust towards the middle and end...

[CSL]

Originally Posted by Schlomey But he was a small nut in a giant cog. It got bigger and bigger and now it's cooled off. A big question is why is he so popular with crowds? His matches, especially on tv are slow. He has zero personality when compared to the other fan favorites and he also comes and goes very frequently. Other than women who find him hot for the life of me I can't understand his overness.

some people seem to mistake his whole "cold, calculating" schtick he has going with doing nothing or has having zero personality. If it's not your thing then fair enough but you don't have to play an imaginary trumpet or drop pipebombs to have a personality. He simply has "it". It drips out of him, you just have to watch him walk to the ring and look at the crowd at the right time to realize the guy screams "superstar". For example, just tonight I was talking to a bird I know and wrestling came up and she loves Orton, one of her mains reasons being because of his "intensity".

The guy is probably the most "widely praised" WWE born and bred style guy going, I've never heard anybody inside the pro wrestling business, from shitty little shows to the "been there, done that" guys like Ted DiBiase or Barry Windham etc on shoot interviews and so forth say a bad word about him. The only place you ever see him criticized is online. Not liking the guy, not being a fan of him, not being "your thing" etc is all completely understandable but to not see why he's so over? I dunno, how can you miss it. The guy is like a prototype #2 for "Successful Modern Professional Wrestler" after prototype #1 John Cena.

[Schlomey]

So outside of this message board nobody thinks Orton has been phoning it in lately..... Watch every match like I did today and see in " real time" . Its cool to have your opinion however you like it here and will get no argument from me. I guess the "it" he oozes isn't the it that makes me watch and like wrestling.

Now the cocky and arrogant legend killer and before Orton was more than tolerable he was pretty enjoyable.

I blame arn and Harley for the style change. Injury after injury they kept saying the key to longevity is to not take chances....he finally started listening. It's on the DVD.

[XCaliber]

His match with Punk should have been that match but it wasn't because it wasn't for the Championship and thus was poorly booked. Most of his good matches were as a heel too with the exception of the one against Triple H in which they are both too blame. So with that said if they were smart they should have a situation were Orton costs The Rock the WWE Championship and sets up a match for them one one one next year.

[Schlomey]

Re read my post. It came off short and I didn't really say all I wanted but I'm on the iPad so if I came across with an attitude I didn't mean to.