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Old 02-19-2013, 03:56 AM   #441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
What would change? Losing to The Rock didn't change anything. Cena did the same shit. Now if he wins, he does the same shit only without the lame apology to his fans.
So you're against it because you feel like they won't use the win to do anything compelling with his character?

If nothing else, losing to The Rock set up his journey to prove that he's on Rock's level. I agree that they didn't really do anything directly from that match as far as Cena's character and dropped the ball... but it did atleast set up the story for Cena to come back at this years' WrestleMania and get a signature win for THE guy over a fucking mega-star. The biggest win in Cena's career.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:57 AM   #442
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What compelling thing could they do with John Cena if he "overcomes the odds" and beats The Rock this time? Logically, there would be nothing to change because he is officially back on top of the WWE. Who gives a fuck about John Cena getting his biggest win ever? He has beaten everybody else anyway. We get a "feel good" moment that we've had before. Y'know, the same kind of moment when Cena FU'd Big Show in MSG to win his first singles title, pinned JBL ending a record reign to win his first World Title, made Triple H tap out, Shawn Michaels tap out, when he picked up Big Show and Edge and once and won the World Title, when he pinned Batista to win the World Title, etc.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:58 AM   #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
What would change? Losing to The Rock didn't change anything. Cena did the same shit. Now if he wins, he does the same shit only without the lame apology to his fans.
I have to agree with this. Unless they have something new planned for Cena's character if he wins the WWE championship, it's all gonna feel like the "same old shit."
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:58 AM   #444
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Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
Did CM Punk vs The Rock not work? Did it not draw? Was the crowd not really into it? CM Punk is the 2nd most over full time wrestler in WWE and he is really fucking over. Quit being a fucking dumbass.
Does any of that mean Punk is on The Rock's level? Was there any chance that Punk was gonna come out of that feud with the title? He's the second most over full time guy... that doesn't mean he's on the level of The Rock or the most over full time guy. I actually like Punk and don't wanna just go Gertner and shit on him for effect. Your blind wishful thinking is not reality though, sir. No matter how much you pout and name call. lol
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:00 AM   #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
What compelling thing could they do with John Cena if he "overcomes the odds" and beats The Rock this time? Logically, there would be nothing to change because he is officially back on top of the WWE.
And he should be on top of the WWE. He's the most over full-time guy in the company. Why the fuck wouldn't he be?
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:01 AM   #446
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Because you're fucked if anything happens to Cena. What happened when Hogan left? WWF damn near died because they had to build a "new generation" from scratch. Also, you are being a willing dumbfuck to ignore how over CM Punk was and is.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:01 AM   #447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Was there any chance that Punk was gonna come out of that feud with the title? l
I dunno, if you read some of the stuff that's been written in the legit sheets, the decision to put the title on The Rock was not a "lock"
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:05 AM   #448
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Cena has had a hell of a run, but him not having the title for over a year didn't hurt anything. Let's take all these guys who are on the cusp of being long term SUPERSTARS (not just main eventers) and put them over the top - Dolph Ziggler, Daniel Bryan, Ryback, Sheamus, etc. Stone Cold only headlined 4 WrestleManias. Cena will headline his 9th WrestleMania this year (same number has Hogan, and you could argue Hogan actually headlined less since IX was an unannounced title match) Nobody will ever get on his level if you never give them the chance to.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:05 AM   #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
He's the most over full-time guy in the company.
I don't think this is accurate. Technically Punk is just as over as Cena.

No other "top face" has half the crowd chanting that he sucks
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:05 AM   #450
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Rock is not gonna stick around full time. Rock is a mega-star, far ahead of any of the full-timers. Why would you be so against the top full-time face in the company... a guy who has lived in the shadow of guys like The Rock in the big picture of WWE history... beating The Rock and getting a win that blows everything else he's ever done in his career out of the water? THAT'S the climax to the fucking story. You're worried about "Where does his character go from here"? Wherever the fuck they decide to take his character. It's irrelevant. As for the match, Cena getting his win back is a major story.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:07 AM   #451
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Because I'm sick and fucking tired of John Cena. As has half the fucking crowd for 5 years. Does beating The Rock really take him to another level? Rock beating Hogan didn't put Rock on another level. It was about cashing in on a dream match. They got the "clash of the titans" and the "electric atmosphere" from the dream match. Move on and do something we haven't seen before and something that won't be so fucking predictable.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:12 AM   #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
Because you're fucked if anything happens to Cena. What happened when Hogan left? WWF damn near died because they had to build a "new generation" from scratch. Also, you are being a willing dumbfuck to ignore how over CM Punk was and is.
Punk is over... he is not on Cena or Rock's level. Seriously. Stop. lol

And yeah, you're fucked if anything happens to Cena. That's kind of an issue that needs to be resolved by putting some fucking effort into building guys up the other 11 months of the year. Maybe then you can have a guy at WrestleMania in a year or two who can draw by simply having his name and picture on the poster. For now, WrestleMania is where you do your money main event and your climactic ending. And that climactic ending is Cena getting his win back from last year. He's your biggest full-time draw. Whether you like it or not, there are more people (YEAH, 12 YEAR OLD KIDS! LOL) who watch the PPVs to see him win than anyone else. He lost a HUGE match last year against Rock. After losing in the main event the year before because of The Rock. Him finally getting Rock is the climax to the story. How are you not getting this?
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:13 AM   #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Rock is not gonna stick around full time. Rock is a mega-star, far ahead of any of the full-timers. Why would you be so against the top full-time face in the company... a guy who has lived in the shadow of guys like The Rock in the big picture of WWE history... beating The Rock and getting a win that blows everything else he's ever done in his career out of the water? THAT'S the climax to the fucking story. You're worried about "Where does his character go from here"? Wherever the fuck they decide to take his character. It's irrelevant. As for the match, Cena getting his win back is a major story.
It is a major story I have no interest in seeing. I care about where the characters go because I was it 12 fucking months a year. That is beyond fucking retarded. "Why do you give a fuck what happens to the characters?"
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:14 AM   #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Punk is over... he is not on Cena or Rock's level. Seriously. Stop. lol

And yeah, you're fucked if anything happens to Cena. That's kind of an issue that needs to be resolved by putting some fucking effort into building guys up the other 11 months of the year. Maybe then you can have a guy at WrestleMania in a year or two who can draw by simply having his name and picture on the poster. For now, WrestleMania is where you do your money main event and your climactic ending. And that climactic ending is Cena getting his win back from last year. He's your biggest full-time draw. Whether you like it or not, there are more people (YEAH, 12 YEAR OLD KIDS! LOL) who watch the PPVs to see him win than anyone else. He lost a HUGE match last year against Rock. After losing in the main event the year before because of The Rock. Him finally getting Rock is the climax to the story. How are you not getting this?
I know what the fucking story is you twat. It is a lame fucking story we've seen a million times. Only instead of Cena overcoming the odds in 3 weeks it took 2 years.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:16 AM   #455
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So Cena FINALLY beats The Rock at WM. Then what? He gets that win that means the world to him, but then what?

There's no doubt in my mind that this is what WWE is planning. For Cena to FINALLY overcome The Rock, but then what?

Cena comes out the next night and thanks the fans and says this was the biggest win of his career and the proceeds to overcome the odds again for the next 5 or 6 months and everyone is tired of Cena again
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:16 AM   #456
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It is needlessly and uninspiring melodramatic (much like Michael Cole's announcing). Which is appropriate because I'm sure Cole will be selling your whole point of "CENA FINALLY BEAT THE ROCK! AFTER 2 YEARS OF HELL, JOHN CENA HAS BEATEN THE ODDS, SILENCED THE CRITICS, AND IS ONCE AGAIN WWE CHAMPION!!!!" as half the crowd goes home pissed.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:17 AM   #457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
Because I'm sick and fucking tired of John Cena.
Aaaand I'm pretty sure we're at the core of the issue here.

When they get a clue how to build up a guy that every demographic fucking goes nuts for for an extended period of time, then they can start building him up for his WrestleMania moments and whatnot. Until then, there's Cena. And he's got a win to get back. And should probably hold the title and keep it credible until that other guy comes along.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:18 AM   #458
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Quote:
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I don't think this is accurate. Technically Punk is just as over as Cena.

No other "top face" has half the crowd chanting that he sucks
Noooo he is not my Taco Supreme
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:18 AM   #459
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It wouldn't be all that big of an issue if Cena hadn't beaten everybody already. The Rock is the only guy left. Seriously, who on the roster has John Cena not beaten in a feud already that could headline PPVs?
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:19 AM   #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Aaaand I'm pretty sure we're at the core of the issue here.

When they get a clue how to build up a guy that every demographic fucking goes nuts for for an extended period of time, then they can start building him up for his WrestleMania moments and whatnot. Until then, there's Cena. And he's got a win to get back. And should probably hold the title and keep it credible until that other guy comes along.
They did. His name was CM Punk. They turned him heel because he is the only bad guy who could compete with Cena/Rock despite what you think.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:20 AM   #461
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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Aaaand I'm pretty sure we're at the core of the issue here.

When they get a clue how to build up a guy that every demographic fucking goes nuts for for an extended period of time, then they can start building him up for his WrestleMania moments and whatnot. Until then, there's Cena. And he's got a win to get back. And should probably hold the title and keep it credible until that other guy comes along.
CM Punk did more good for the WWE Title in a year than Cena did in 5.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:21 AM   #462
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Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
It is a major story I have no interest in seeing. I care about where the characters go because I was it 12 fucking months a year. That is beyond fucking retarded. "Why do you give a fuck what happens to the characters?"
BECAUSE YOU DON'T BUILD A FUCKING CHARACTER IN ONE WRESTLEMANIA MATCH, YOU DOLT! IF YOU WANNA DISCUSS HOW NO ONE IS OVER BECAUSE THE BOOKING FOR MOST OF THE YEAR IS GENERALLY SHIT, THEN WE CAN DISCUSS THAT. IT HAS SHIT TO DO WITH THIS ONE MATCH. IF THEY WANNA TAKE HIS CHARACTER IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION, THEY COULD HAVE DONE IT LAST YEAR AFTER THE MATCH. THEY CAN HAVE HIM TURN HEEL THE NIGHT AFTER ON RAW. THEY CAN HAVE HIM SHIT ON THE AMERICAN FLAG AT EXTREME RULES. THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT. lol

Better? Comprehending why I said they're separate issues? Jesus
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:22 AM   #463
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The only money matches left for Cena that haven't been done to death are Undertaker and Ryback.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:23 AM   #464
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Noooo he is not my Taco Supreme
I feel like this was the accurate response. Sometimes it's a lost cause.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:24 AM   #465
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Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
The only money matches left for Cena that haven't been done to death are Undertaker and Ryback.
Well that sucks. They should probably build up some heels for him to feud with after WrestleMania.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:24 AM   #466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
BECAUSE YOU DON'T BUILD A FUCKING CHARACTER IN ONE WRESTLEMANIA MATCH, YOU DOLT! IF YOU WANNA DISCUSS HOW NO ONE IS OVER BECAUSE THE BOOKING FOR MOST OF THE YEAR IS GENERALLY SHIT, THEN WE CAN DISCUSS THAT. IT HAS SHIT TO DO WITH THIS ONE MATCH. IF THEY WANNA TAKE HIS CHARACTER IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION, THEY COULD HAVE DONE IT LAST YEAR AFTER THE MATCH. THEY CAN HAVE HIM TURN HEEL THE NIGHT AFTER ON RAW. THEY CAN HAVE HIM SHIT ON THE AMERICAN FLAG AT EXTREME RULES. THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT. lol

Better? Comprehending why I said they're separate issues? Jesus
Do you not see how a new main eventer winning at THE BIGGEST FUCKING SHOW OF THE YEAR would help cement him? FFS, why do you think they didn't put the belt on Austin, Batista, and Cena until WrestleMania? Because winning at WrestleMania is just on another level than winning at another ppv. Would it have been as epic if JR screaming "THE AUSTIN ERA HAS BEGUN" had happened at fucking BreakDown In Your House?
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:25 AM   #467
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I feel like this was the accurate response. Sometimes it's a lost cause.
I don't get it
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:27 AM   #468
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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Well that sucks. They should probably build up some heels for him to feud with after WrestleMania.
They had some, but they fed them all to Cena already. (Ziggler, Sandow, Barrett, Cesaro, Del Rio, Brock, Rhodes, The Shield, Swagger, Mark Henry, etc.)

WWE shouldn't have let Cena soundly beat Ziggler already. He is the next great heel, but they have cut him off at the knees every single fucking time. Maybe Mark Henry, but we've seen that before too. Swagger's reinvention could be a good heel for Cena, but he's in the other title scene and Cena's beaten his ass a bunch too.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:30 AM   #469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
Do you not see how a new main eventer winning at THE BIGGEST FUCKING SHOW OF THE YEAR would help cement him? FFS, why do you think they didn't put the belt on Austin, Batista, and Cena until WrestleMania? Because winning at WrestleMania is just on another level than winning at another ppv. Would it have been as epic if JR screaming "THE AUSTIN ERA HAS BEGUN" had happened at fucking BreakDown In Your House?
Austin, Batista and Cena were built up to a point where their WrestleMania win would be a huge culmination. WrestleMania is the icing on the cake... it still takes that other 11 months of building the star before he hits that big moment that puts him over the top.

It actually requires long term building BEFORE hand. Chris Benoit won it at the main event at WrestleMania. He didn't exactly go on to be a mega star. Til he murdered people at least. That got his name out there. But still.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:30 AM   #470
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WWE hasn't got enough heels/challengers for Cena because whenever anybody gets remotely over enough to feud with him they feed him to Cena. Cena doesn't need any more building up. He has peaked.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:31 AM   #471
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I'm just surprised anyone on earth is enthused about watching Cena/Rock 2
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:31 AM   #472
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I don't get it
There should have been a comma between "not" and "my".
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:31 AM   #473
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Instead of feeding Ziggler to Cena the past few months, they let him actually look like he is on Cena's level. Then, the story is can Cena keep fighting off Ziggler and can Ziggler finally put it over the top and beat Cena when it matters most?

It is a vicious cycle. They have no major stars to face Cena because they feed all their rising stars to Cena. The one time they buck that trend, CM Punk, he became the hottest thing in wrestling for months and is now the only full time guy who is remotely close to being on the level of Cena, Rock, Lesnar, etc.

They build guys up all the time. How many times has Ziggler been built up only to job out in the big match? Wade Barrett was fucking hot and they decided that John Cena getting his "moment" was more important than cementing Wade Barrett as a main event heel. I can go on and on. You know this is true. Cena doesn't need his moment. He has had nothing but "moments" his entire career. The Shield are the closest thing they have right now, but none of them are ready for one-on-one feuds. It is still a glorified stable war of sorts.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:33 AM   #474
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wow, James Steele as the voice of reason here.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:34 AM   #475
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Quote:
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WWE hasn't got enough heels/challengers for Cena because whenever anybody gets remotely over enough to feud with him they feed him to Cena. Cena doesn't need any more building up. He has peaked.
Well, them feeding him to Cena and fucking up his push immediately seems like bad booking. Maybe an issue they should think about fixing.

And does Rock need more building up? Did Hogan need more building up after WrestleMania 3? Again, it's about the story. You're not getting it. Cena doesn't NEED the win to build himself up. He needs the win because that's the fitting climax to the feud.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:34 AM   #476
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owenbrown is on your side, James.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:37 AM   #477
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I feel like you're completely ignoring the fact that half the crowd still fucking loves Cena. And there is a happy ending to be had for them. You and the half of the crowd you agree with don't exactly have more of a "right" to have it your way than the other half. Though you're acting like it. They could use Cena's reign to put over someone else, push Ryback or someone to the moon and then demote Cena if they see fit. For now though, Cena winning this one match is the right way to go.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:40 AM   #478
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K, so why don't you just agree to disagree. Pretty obvious nobody is changing their view on things.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:42 AM   #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Well, them feeding him to Cena and fucking up his push immediately seems like bad booking. Maybe an issue they should think about fixing.

And does Rock need more building up? Did Hogan need more building up after WrestleMania 3? Again, it's about the story. You're not getting it. Cena doesn't NEED the win to build himself up. He needs the win because that's the fitting climax to the feud.
Bad booking, yes. You are still missing the point. They could use this WrestleMania to complete somebody else's story instead of just rehashing the same story we've been told 1000 times. The feud had its climax when John Cena basically said that losing to The Rock meant nothing and The Rock went on to win the WWE title. No reason to dig this feud back up. The 3-way at least adds something new to it.

Also, regarding WM3, Hogan/Andre was cashing in on the dream match. You didn't see them do it again at WM4 or have Andre win at WM3 just to have Hogan "get his win back and epic moment" at WM4. No. If you wanted Cena to have his fucking moment, do it when the story was fresh. Rock/Cena is well-worn and nothing left to add to it other than an unnecessary feel good moment for a guy who has had more feel good moments than anybody in the history of wrestling.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:43 AM   #480
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K, so why don't you just agree to disagree. Pretty obvious nobody is changing their view on things.
Because #1-wwf-fan is a dumb sack of shit.
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