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Old 04-19-2013, 09:09 PM   #41
Alvin Hobbs
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Originally Posted by whiteyford View Post
Yeah, a few months under constant supervision doesn't make him a changed man, same reason Scott Hall isn't in yet or even getting the nostalgia appearances on Raw.
That's what I don't get. The dude tries to clean up his act, yet he can never do good enough. But I bet if he died of a drug overdose he'd be in the hall of fame within 3 years of it.
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:05 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by whiteyford View Post
Yeah, a few months under constant supervision doesn't make him a changed man, same reason Scott Hall isn't in yet or even getting the nostalgia appearances on Raw.
Pretty sure Scott was offered the chance to appear at HBK's HOF induction but declined on the basis that it would be a damn bad idea for him to be in that environment.
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:23 AM   #43
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Wasn't Koko one of the first black wrestlers to mean something?
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:54 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by whiteyford View Post
Antonino Rocca
I don't know what it is about him but my Dad, who hates wrestling, brings up Rocca every so often like I would Bret Hart. Just for the backbreaker alone. It just seems to fascinate him.

Don't have the heart to show him Lex Luger and the rack.
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Old 04-20-2013, 02:31 PM   #45
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Wasn't Koko one of the first black wrestlers to mean something?
Dunno about that. Guys like JYD and Ernie Ladd were around before Koko. I'd say he was one of the first high flyers on the national stage.
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:54 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteyford View Post
James Dudley, "Baron" Mikel Scicluna and Antonino Rocca. You can think of something you wanted to see from those three HOF inductees but not Koko?
http://www.wwe.com/superstars/antoninorocca

Rocca is/was a legend in the biz.

He was a huge star for the old Capitol Wrestling Corporation - the precursor to WWE/WWF/WWWF.



Before it was ever known as WWE, Antonino Rocca was the top Superstar in the company. Back then, it was simply the Capitol Wrestling Corporation, and Rocca was the star of the show, drawing packed houses throughout the Northeast for Vincent J. McMahon.

The reasons were simple. He was the most dynamic performer the business had ever seen up to that point. His arsenal of aerial maneuvers would be considered amazing even by today's standards; back then, he was a legitimate phenomenon. Hurricanranas, flying dropkicks, victory rolls and flying body presses dazzled 1950s audiences used to seeing athletes who almost never left their feet. His signature move, the Argentine Backbreaker (known to newer fans as the Human Torture Rack) also brought crowds to a frenzy.

The ethnic factor also played a big part. Rocca was of Italian heritage and hailed from Latin America, making him a drawing card for two of the New York area's largest populations. His fan following was passionate, as is evidenced by the famous riot that erupted at Madison Square Garden on a night in 1957 when Rocca was busted open by Dick the Bruiser.

Rocca began his career as a teenager, training under the legendary Stanislaus Zbyszko. In the United States, he began his career in Texas, but was quickly brought to New York in the late 1940s by Joseph "Toots" Mondt, the kingpin of wrestling in the Big Apple. Mondt shared Rocca with other promoters in the region, including a newcomer from Washington, D.C. named Vincent J. McMahon. Eventually, McMahon managed to convince Rocca to join his troupe full-time. This, along with his use of television, allowed McMahon to gain enough leverage to become the major player in the territory.

Although Rocca never held a World Championship, it really didn't matter. In arenas like Madison Square Garden, he was such a big deal that his matches were always main events, even if the NWA World Champion was also competing on the card; the Argentine acrobat was the man the people came to see. During this period, only Gorgeous George was a bigger star, and on the East Coast Rocca was the uncontested king.
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:56 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XL View Post
Dunno about that. Guys like JYD and Ernie Ladd were around before Koko. I'd say he was one of the first high flyers on the national stage.
even before them there was huge names like Bobo Brazil and Sailor Art Thomas.

so no Koko wasn't one of the first to mean something.
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:03 PM   #48
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No one likes you anyways Seth! Geez. Just kidding.

Did any of them go to TNA's Slammiversary as a groomsman in the wedding for "Black Machismo" Jay Lethal?

Eat it!
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:04 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth82 View Post
Rocca is/was a legend in the biz.
I wasn't disputing that, simply asking why three, largely unknown names to modern fans were more recognizable and deserving of a place than Koko, who was a draw in the 80s on a national/global level rather than a regional one. Ignoring the fact entirely that it's based on who they want in rather than who is most deserving of course.
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:07 PM   #50
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Rocca should definitely be in the HOF. He may be somewhat unknown to modern fans but he is deserving of it far more than Koko imo.

Koko was a solid undercard performer in Memphis and WWF.
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:25 PM   #51
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Yeah but you still live in the '50s, but with more openly available man on man shenanigans.
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:46 PM   #52
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Still can't believe Heracles and Theseus aren't in the hall of fame
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:47 PM   #53
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You joke but I could see it happening when Vince finally goes senile.
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Old 04-20-2013, 05:00 PM   #54
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That's what I don't get. The dude tries to clean up his act, yet he can never do good enough. But I bet if he died of a drug overdose he'd be in the hall of fame within 3 years of it.
That's any type of Hall of Fame tho. I'm one of the bigger Jake The Snake fans. In my mind he was probably the biggest draw in the company that didn't main event. Hopefully he stays clean for another couple years and the give him the nod.

It's kind of hypocritical to write him out of history over drugs, considering a lot of the guys already in the Hall weren't exactly clean, just chose a more discrete or embraced poison. Some people don't see it that way. If they're really serious about being PG from now on, then that works doubly against him.
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Old 04-20-2013, 05:36 PM   #55
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Yeah but you still live in the '50s, but with more openly available man on man shenanigans.
I hardly live in the 50s. I am somewhat of a wrestling historian.
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Old 04-20-2013, 05:46 PM   #56
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Oh come on Seth, you're definitely biased towards the older generations. I've never seen you even say a single word about anything post-1990 with regards to wrestling. You probably think some random territory mid carder is more deserved of a hall of fame place than someone like John Cena.
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Old 04-20-2013, 05:48 PM   #57
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That's not a bad thing by the way, we all have our preferences, but you're definitely not a fair and neutral judge on something like this.
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Old 04-20-2013, 05:59 PM   #58
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Koko was ONE of the first black mainstream wrestlers AND he was a big part of the WWF expansion period in the 80s. Regardless of who did better at what time, he's got bigger name recognition with a lot of fans than the likes of Ernie Ladd or Bobo Brazil.
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Old 04-20-2013, 06:20 PM   #59
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Oh come on Seth, you're definitely biased towards the older generations. I've never seen you even say a single word about anything post-1990 with regards to wrestling. You probably think some random territory mid carder is more deserved of a hall of fame place than someone like John Cena.
I may not comment on anything post 1990 but I am a fan.

I've been a fan of CM Punk for a long time now. I watch the ppvs every month as well. I also am a fan of The Shield.

you're right I do chime in when it concerns mostly territory wrestlers. I just have a deep appreciation for the territories and want to correct any mistakes or preconceived notions and etc.

I just found it humorous and shocking that people think Koko Ware is more deserving than the legendary Antonino Rocca to be in the HOF.

Rocca was THE star of New York and the Capitol Wrestling Corporation before Bruno's era.

Koko at best was a solid midcarder. I did like Koko's work as a tag team with Norvell Austin in the PYT Express.
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Old 04-20-2013, 06:31 PM   #60
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Wow, they really let their Souls Glo back then.
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Old 04-20-2013, 07:12 PM   #61
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Nobody is saying Koko is more deserving, the whole point of the quote you replied too was that I found it hard to believe that anyone not born before the advent of colour television could think of something they wanted to see from someone like that ahead of Koko, who had a parrot. But again, to play devils advocate, globally recognised star trumps regional star, not that shocking an opinion really.
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Old 04-20-2013, 07:13 PM   #62
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Koko at best was a solid midcarder. I did like Koko's work as a tag team with Norvell Austin in the PYT Express.
his vocals in Piledriver alone are HoF worthy
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Old 04-20-2013, 07:14 PM   #63
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I guess its along the same lines of Foley deserves to be the headliner over Sammartino, valid arguments could be made for both sides, simply a matter of opinion.
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Old 04-20-2013, 07:14 PM   #64
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Koko B Ware won me over with his parrot. I was a kid back then, kids love parrots. Brilliant motherfucking formula, checkmate.



nWo?
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Old 04-20-2013, 07:16 PM   #65
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The parrot was now.
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Old 04-20-2013, 07:38 PM   #66
Heisenberg
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I want Rick Martel in the Hall of Fame, one of the best heels of my childhood
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Old 04-20-2013, 08:13 PM   #67
James Steele
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Antonio Rocca, Bobo Brazil, and Ernie Ladd are already in the WWE Hall of Fame.
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Old 04-20-2013, 08:14 PM   #68
Seth82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteyford View Post
Nobody is saying Koko is more deserving, the whole point of the quote you replied too was that I found it hard to believe that anyone not born before the advent of colour television could think of something they wanted to see from someone like that ahead of Koko, who had a parrot. But again, to play devils advocate, globally recognised star trumps regional star, not that shocking an opinion really.
well count me as someone who wasn't born before color tv that'd rather watch Antonino Rocca than watch Koko.

Rocca and Miguel Perez were a damn good tag team. Koko's main draw was the damn parrot.
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Old 04-20-2013, 08:25 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
Antonio Rocca, Bobo Brazil, and Ernie Ladd are already in the WWE Hall of Fame.
VERY true
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Old 04-20-2013, 08:27 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth82 View Post
well count me as someone who wasn't born before color tv that'd rather watch Antonino Rocca than watch Koko.

Rocca and Miguel Perez were a damn good tag team. Koko's main draw was the damn parrot.
Racist.
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Old 04-20-2013, 08:30 PM   #71
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Yeah Seth that really wasn't cool
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:16 PM   #72
Seth82
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Quote:
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Racist.
huh?

what part of that was racist?
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:35 PM   #73
Alvin Hobbs
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Where you said you wouldn't watch tv with colored people on it dude...
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:39 PM   #74
Seth82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvin Hobbs View Post
Where you said you wouldn't watch tv with colored people on it dude...
dude I didn't mean it that way. I meant I'd rather watch Rocca's matches than Koko's matches.

I'm not racist whatsoever dude.
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:48 PM   #75
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I hope it just came off that way accidentally and you're not a racist. I'll give you another chance pal
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