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Old 05-01-2013, 09:33 PM   #1441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveBrawl View Post
No, I'm not saying Romo isn't better, I'm saying they're both pretty terrible at times.
You can't compare the two though. Romo has set records playing the position of QB. Completing 50% of his passes is a "good game" for Tebow. Romo makes boneheaded plays at times. Tebow is completely inept at playing QB.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:40 PM   #1442
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Originally Posted by Vito Cruz View Post
Marino himself is his own harshest critic. He's said several times he'd trade in most of his accolades for a ring.


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Old 05-01-2013, 09:42 PM   #1443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Peyton Manning nor Dan Marino nor Brett Favre... will never... ever... by anyone with any football knowledge whatsoever... be mentioned as being WAY BEHIND Terry Bradshaw. And I've never heard anyone call Trent Dilfer a better QB than Dan Marino. Your argument is invalid. lol
yeah, if you say so. Nobody mentioned Dilfer but you.

Passing records, Touchdown records, completion percentage, QB ratings...all that shit will be eclipsed sooner or later by some youngster. The two things that will never be taken or broken are WINS, and CHAMPIONSHIPS. Dan Marino had the all time single season passing record...does he have it now? so what makes that record worthy of putting him over Steve Young or Troy Aikman or even Mr. Bradshaw?

Hell Peyton isn't even the Best Manning!
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:44 PM   #1444
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I mentioned Dilfer because he fits EXACTLY what you're saying. How the hell did you miss that? lol

And you just restated it. By what you're saying, Trent Dilfer will go down as a better QB than Dan Marino. Don't try to avoid it.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:12 PM   #1445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
I mentioned Dilfer because he fits EXACTLY what you're saying. How the hell did you miss that? lol

And you just restated it. By what you're saying, Trent Dilfer will go down as a better QB than Dan Marino. Don't try to avoid it.
I know dilfer won a superbowl. So did Mark Rypien, Jim Mcmahon, Doug Williams, and Joe Theisman. I never say that any of them are better than Peyton or Marino.

But among the BEST QB's to PLAY THE GAME, They all have gaudy numbers. what would be the thing that separates them then? what would be the conversation point that would help one define who's better than Montanna or Brady? how about Between Farve and Aikman? Hmm? what would you use to differentiate them then sir?

Most people with half an inkling of the game would use wins and losses in the games that matter. and those games usually revolve around getting to and winning the Superbowl.

Stop trying to make it seem like I"m saying that Trend Dilfer needs to go into Canton.

You seem to define the 'greatness' or validity of a quarterback by the completion percentage, or by the amount of 300 yard passing games that they accumulate.

Hey keep your logic, I'll keep mine. You evaluate the game how you choose, and I'll keep doing it my way.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:30 PM   #1446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krimzon7 View Post
I know dilfer won a superbowl. So did Mark Rypien, Jim Mcmahon, Doug Williams, and Joe Theisman. I never say that any of them are better than Peyton or Marino.

But among the BEST QB's to PLAY THE GAME, They all have gaudy numbers. what would be the thing that separates them then? what would be the conversation point that would help one define who's better than Montanna or Brady? how about Between Farve and Aikman? Hmm? what would you use to differentiate them then sir?
This whole conversation is about Tebow. He's nowhere near the level of the other guys being discussed here talent-wise. So by what you just said, he's eliminated from the discussion before we even get to judging them by wins.

So what the hell are you arguing about? lol
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:40 PM   #1447
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Why don't you just be happy with saying that you don't like Tebow? that's completely fine and it's your opinion. You're entitled to that.

Tebow was a winning quarterback in Denver. He won a Division title, and won a playoff game before going up against an outmatched opponent.

He's younger and cheaper than manning, and he's proven that he can win in the playoffs. Peyton Manning came in and did the same thing that Tebow did in his first year. Won a division reached the second round of the playoffs. my argument all along was that signing peyton was not giving the broncos any better chance of reaching or winning a super bowl. I've been right so far too.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:03 AM   #1448
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... I was never arguing anything about Manning before you jumped in. You're fixated on arguing about Peyton Manning. lol

I mean... if you WANT to argue that Peyton Manning isn't a WAY better option than Tebow, we can. You made it clear that your "playoff/title wins" argument only works among the BEST QB's to PLAY THE GAME. That's how you got by your guidelines saying that Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino.

So are you saying Tim Tebow is among the BEST QB's to PLAY THE GAME? If not, then he isn't even in the discussion and you're arguing against yourself.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:13 AM   #1449
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hey do you guys want to go beat your heads into a wall or run around in circles?
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:19 AM   #1450
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Was that a Gus Frerotte joke?
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:42 PM   #1451
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it's a WWF Fan joke. I'm no more obsessed with arguing about Manning than you are trying to discredit anything Teebow has done in the NFL.
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:38 PM   #1452
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Then why are you trying so hard to argue about the Manning-Tebow Broncos situation to me?

Like I said, if you don't think Tebow is one of the greatest QBs to play the game, then by your own admission, wins don't come into the equation.

If you wanna argue whether he should still be QB of the Broncos, there's quite a few Broncos fans here. Air that grievance with them.
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:44 PM   #1453
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I'm watching DLHQ. I just listened to Asante Samuel recount how he bought his mother a house as a complete surprise for Mother's day a couple of years ago. I was already a fan of the man because of his Patriot days. Now, I gotta say that a part of me would like to see him win again.

Man that was honestly one of the best interviews I've ever witnessed on DLHQ
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:49 PM   #1454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Then why are you trying so hard to argue about the Manning-Tebow Broncos situation to me?

Like I said, if you don't think Tebow is one of the greatest QBs to play the game, then by your own admission, wins don't come into the equation.

If you wanna argue whether he should still be QB of the Broncos, there's quite a few Broncos fans here. Air that grievance with them.
By my own admission, Peyton manning is not one of the best players in the history of the game because wins DO come into the equation. I'm just putting it out there over and over because you repeatedly take the bait.
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:51 PM   #1455
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Let's just nip this in the bud... Do you think Tim Tebow is a better QB than Peyton Manning, Matt Ryan, Tony Romo or Andy Dalton?
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:01 PM   #1456
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Let's nip this in the bud do you think that Peyton Manning is a better quarterback than Tom Brady, Joe Montanna, Troy Aikman or Eli Manning?

My answer would have to be yes....I think that Tim Tebow has done more for his franchise (the Broncos when he was starting) than Tony Romo and Andy Dalton. He deserved to have a complete off season training camp and to enter last year as a starter with some team. Matt Ryan is a push to me.

It is apparent that we place premiums on two different things. You would rather have a quarterback who could zip a football all over the field, and amass prolific numbers during the 16 week regular season.

I'd rather have a championship winning quarterback.

YOu prefer stats, I prefer Titles.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:37 PM   #1457
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Yeah. I'll see shows comparing Peyton Manning and Joe Montana and I think to myself "How is this even close?" Peyton doesn't win big games that matter. There's the biggest difference.

It's the difference between Peyton and Eli as well. Eli shows up for big games.
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Old 05-03-2013, 05:50 AM   #1458
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No. I do not think Peyton Manning is a better QB than Joe Montana. Aikman and Eli, yes (And I'm a Cowboys fan. But I'm not so fucking blind that I can't see that the other fucking players and coaches around a guy contribute to winning games). Brady... debatable. Brady was injured for a year and the Patriots won 11 games with Matt freakin' Cassel. Not a big drop off. Manning was injured for a year and the Colts nearly went winless. HUGE fucking drop off. That's a pretty big point in Peyton's favor.

I don't base shit on stats alone. I base it on a lot of factors. Mainly just watching a guy play. lol. It's retarded to base it on anything else, really. Simply saying "this team wins" is a fucking ridiculous way to judge a player. Again... IT'S A FUCKING TEAM GAME! YOU CAN ONLY JUDGE A PLAYER BASED ON HOW HE PLAYS HIS POSITION!!! Brad Johnson was not a better QB than Matt Ryan is because HE DIDN'T PLAY THE POSITION AS WELL. Tim Tebow is not a better QB than pretty much anyone mentioned in this thread because HE DOESN'T PLAY THE POSITION AS WELL. Throw him in with a good defense, some good coaching, maybe a running game and the team might win some games despite him not even being able to complete 40% of his passes. IT DOES NOT MEAN HE IS A GOOD QB! IT MEANS HE IS A SHITTY QB ON A GOOD TEAM.

And you'd rather have a championship winning quarterback? Good. Peyton Manning has won a championship. And he actually did it while playing the position of QB in a way that helped, and in some cases pushed, his team to victory. So there ya go.
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Old 05-03-2013, 05:59 AM   #1459
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I think Peyton Manning is a better quarterback than Joe Montana(maybe not because I didn't see him play that much, but based on what I've seen), Troy Aikman and Eli because process trumps results
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:39 AM   #1460
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I also think Peyton is a better quarterback than Eli, Aikman and Brady. I don't really remember much of Montana aside from those allstar 49ers teams, although I remember being impressed he made the Chiefs that good while he was there.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:34 AM   #1461
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Brady is just as good as Manning, I feel. The only QB's better than either are Elway, Marino, and maybe Favre
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:48 AM   #1462
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I'd just like to see what Brady can do without Belichik just for curiosity sake. Of course I feel that way about anybody that has been in 1 system for their entire career.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:53 AM   #1463
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Indeed. After Brady got Moss it was an incredible transformation. Like he got his own "Marvin Harrison"
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Old 05-03-2013, 02:15 PM   #1464
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Originally Posted by DaveBrawl View Post
I'd just like to see what Brady can do without Belichik just for curiosity sake. Of course I feel that way about anybody that has been in 1 system for their entire career.
I would have loved to have seen what Brady could do as QB of the 2011 Colts.

I mean... I think they would have been improved obviously because I think Brady is more than just a guy in a good position. But without those pieces, it would have been interesting to see if he could carry a team on his back like Manning did regularly.
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Old 05-03-2013, 03:17 PM   #1465
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Definitely. I don't think he's just a cog in the machine that can be easily replaced by anyone, but I'd like to see how he works with a medicore or even poor coach and support cast.
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Old 05-03-2013, 03:24 PM   #1466
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Peyton is just as big of a "1 system" QB as Brady is when you consider his system is a few years older and ended up being the actual inspiration Belichick used when he reworked Brady's in 2007. Also around the same year Belichick started to get more involved on the offensive side of the ball.

Same goes for last year with the Broncos considering the huge changes they did to their own style/system to accommodate him and reduce the learning time Peyton needed.

Flip both guys around and the general consensus is Peyton would have at least another ring because of the early Pats defenses while Brady still gets a ring because of the early Colts offensive weapons. Weather was a huge reason for Peyton's playoff struggles in New England since he wasn't used to playing in cold weather games/situations like Brady.
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Old 05-03-2013, 04:31 PM   #1467
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I wouldn't just call either a "1 system" QB. Having never seen either of them really in a system where they're failing, it's presumptuous to think of either as just a "1 system" QB.

As for the systems though, I think having seen the 2008 Patriots without Brady and the 2011 Colts without Manning I think we can safely assume Brady had it much easier. In another "if" situation, I don't think Matt Cassel would have led the 2011 Colts to 11 wins or even close.
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Old 05-03-2013, 04:42 PM   #1468
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I think system was a poor word choice on my part, not really sure what word to use in it's place though. What I was getting at was more along the lines of the conisistancy of working with one great coach over like 11 seasons as opposed to the handful that Peyton has had with their various philosophies on offense.
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Old 05-03-2013, 05:05 PM   #1469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
I wouldn't just call either a "1 system" QB. Having never seen either of them really in a system where they're failing, it's presumptuous to think of either as just a "1 system" QB.

As for the systems though, I think having seen the 2008 Patriots without Brady and the 2011 Colts without Manning I think we can safely assume Brady had it much easier. In another "if" situation, I don't think Matt Cassel would have led the 2011 Colts to 11 wins or even close.
Agree that Cassel wouldn't have won that many games with the 2011 Colts but he'd be more competitive than what the Colts used for QBs that year.

He did have about 3 years worth of development and learning on the Pats system/style before he started the 2008 season unlike Painter or whoever else the Colts used in 2011.
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Old 05-03-2013, 06:14 PM   #1470
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Brady is just as good as Manning, I feel. The only QB's better than either are Elway, Marino, and maybe Favre
The NFL has been around longer than twenty years.
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Old 05-03-2013, 06:46 PM   #1471
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The NFL has been around longer than twenty years.
Terry Bradshaw, Sammy Baugh, and Otto Grahmn both thank you for this statement.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:21 PM   #1472
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Ed Reed has a torn labrum in his hip (thought that was in the shoulder?) and had to have surgery and probably won't be ready for the start of Texans training camp. Apparently it was torn LAST SEASON and he just is getting around to having the surgery on it now, which I would have to think could give the Texans a reason to void his contract maybe?

Really hate to be this way about him, but it looks like the Ravens might have dodged the damaged goods bullet..between this hip injury and his often injured shoulder...
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:23 PM   #1473
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According to Pro Football Focus’ data, since '08 Larry Fitzgerald has caught 40 of 42 catchable passes of 20 yards or more. That is awesome. He is awesome. It would be hard not to put him as 1-2 with Calvin Johnson in ability. But here is the opposite of those awesome numbers; in 2012 he only had two catchable targets over 20 yards. He went ahead and caught those two, but had 24 non-catchable targets over 20 yards, that yes, he did not catch. Twenty-four!

save_us.carson_palmer
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:47 AM   #1474
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According to Pro Football Focus’ data, since '08 Larry Fitzgerald has caught 40 of 42 catchable passes of 20 yards or more. That is awesome. He is awesome. It would be hard not to put him as 1-2 with Calvin Johnson in ability. But here is the opposite of those awesome numbers; in 2012 he only had two catchable targets over 20 yards. He went ahead and caught those two, but had 24 non-catchable targets over 20 yards, that yes, he did not catch. Twenty-four!

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Kimo Von Olhaffen, or whatever the fuck that asshat from the Steelers name is, stole the best of Carson Palmer from us. A part of me wants to see him succed. But I gotta tell you to be very wary of any success he brings you.
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:00 PM   #1475
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MJD's Cinco de Mayo:


"It's CINCO DE MAYO!!!!!!!! You know I had to bring the boots out"


"And then there were 3........... Amigos!!!!!!! And their trusted stallions."


"Riding into the sunset!!!!!"
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:42 PM   #1476
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Thank you Next Big Thing.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:12 PM   #1477
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In other NFL news, here's Joe Namath riding a horse shirtless.
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:15 PM   #1478
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CEO of the Miami Dolphins threatening the team is considering moving out of the city if the renovations bill is not passed by the city. The owner also stated if its not passed, he'd end up selling the team and wouldn't care if the new potential owners favor relocation.

Quote:
The Dolphins wanted both state and local help to pay for $400 million worth of renovations to 26-year-old Sun Life Stadium. The Dolphins wanted $3 million a year for the next 30 years from the state. Dee said Ross was committed to funding 70 percent of the cost.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/92...s-ceo-mike-dee
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:50 PM   #1479
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well if there's one fanbase who's going to be open to funding anything related to a sports stadium right now it's Miami
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:57 PM   #1480
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Lol, fans in Jacksonville are petitioning Obama to make the Jaguars sign Tebow.

Going to desigante this group of fans as "Tebros."
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