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Old 07-02-2013, 10:22 AM   #81
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I thoroughly enjoyed the build up for the main event. The only thing that bother me was that while visiting the history of the big gold belt, only one champion who held the belt in it's current iteration was showcased - Booker T.



They could have shown Triple H since he was the first ever World Heavyweight Champion and arguably the most important wrestler to hold the strap and solidify it in the company.





Undertaker was somewhat responsible for maintaining the prestige and bringing it back to the main event scene.





And Edge who held the strap for a record seven times.
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:06 AM   #82
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I hope Vickie is removed from Raw, this stupid McMahon storyline makes no sense with her having power.
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:38 PM   #83
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It feels like they are trying to get sympathy for Vickie, and I don't know if that is possible short of her breaking down crying in the ring and start talking to Eddie. I hope that sort of thing wouldn't happen.
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:12 PM   #84
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I skimmed the results and saw that Ryback lost via ref stoppage because he got destroyed by The Miz. Was this as hilarious / awful as it sounds?
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:24 PM   #85
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I skimmed the results and saw that Ryback lost via ref stoppage because he got destroyed by The Miz. Was this as hilarious / awful as it sounds?
Ryback asked to stop the match. It was a "WTF" moment because for such a long period of time, Ryback has been pushed as a monster and now he's acting like a crybaby. It's quite a change in his personality.
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Old 07-03-2013, 03:07 PM   #86
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I wish ADR went over Cena, put over the WHC a bit.
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Old 07-03-2013, 03:19 PM   #87
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I second that. They have been "demoting" the big gold belt for a while now. It doesn't help that the WWE Champion gets a pinfall victory over the World Heavyweight Champion.
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:24 PM   #88
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Shoulda had either Dolph or Henry actually interfere and end in No DQ. Both matches furthered and the World Belt isn't "Demoted"
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Old 07-03-2013, 10:05 PM   #89
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As much as the World Title has been made to look like shit over recent times, just the fact that ADR was wrestling John Cena was a plus for the title. He shouldn't have gone over though. Let's not make the WWE champion look weaker in the process.
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:34 AM   #90
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John Cena could job to Zack Ryder and be fine coming out of it. WWE has a ridiculous Hogan-level paranoia about him looking weak. The only guy to really beat Cena clean multiple times since 2005 is CM Punk. Look what it did for him.
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:43 AM   #91
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lol. The guy loses enough. They aren't paranoid about him looking weak. He's the top guy in the company. It makes sense for him to actually look strong. Having a guy hold a title while losing left and right just to make the rest of your roster look good is not only retarded but if he were losing left and right, at a certain point it wouldn't be putting anyone over. Regardless of how big of a star he is, it doesn't make anyone look good to go over a guy who loses on a regular basis.
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:47 AM   #92
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Missing the point. John Cena losing to ADR with some shenanigans wouldn't hurt Cena and would help ADR and the WHC. Hell, Ziggler beating Cena in the cage match in January would have done ungodly good for Ziggler and not really hurt Cena at all (especially considering he won the Rumble, beat Rock for the title, etc.)
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:49 AM   #93
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Cena is on a completely different level than anybody in the company. The only one close to him is CM Punk...and how did they achieve that? In order to get people remotely close to his level, they have to beat him. Besides, whenever Cena has lost clean - it hasn't effected him. He comes out and does his whole spiel on never giving up and we start the thing over again. Remember, the "worst year of his life" wasn't all that bad and helped build Punk up to the level he is now.

Yes, having a Wade Barrett or Cody Rhodes lose often after winning the IC or US title is stupid. They are still trying to be built up. Cena is built up more than Fort Knox and the Great Wall of China. Losing occasionally doesn't hurt him and helps the other guy incredibly.
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:51 AM   #94
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Dolph Ziggler beat John Cena in the main event of a PPV in December and then was stagnant until he cashed in to beat Del Rio 3 months later. Like I said, Cena loses enough. To the point where most people over the age of 13 find his character to be shit. It doesn't do much long term anymore for people to beat him. Especially on a random Raw.
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:53 AM   #95
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Dolph Ziggler beat John Cena in the main event of a PPV in December and then was stagnant until he cashed in to beat Del Rio 3 months later. Like I said, Cena loses enough. It doesn't do much long term. Especially on a random Raw.
He beat Cena because a woman knocked over Cena while he was on a ladder. Ziggler beating Cena clean inside a steel cage would have given Ziggler a MOMENT and huge momentum going into Mania season and his eventual cash-in. Aren't you always bitching about how they don't build up guys who win the briefcase or titles?

Cena doesn't lose enough, and he doesn't lose clean enough. It is almost always some shenanigans or some over the top convoluted finish that gives him an excuse (clusterfuck interference, being thrown into searchlights, tackled through sets, etc.)
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:55 AM   #96
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Because he's the top guy in the company and should be booked like it. Wrestling is better without parity. Someone beating Cena should be a big fucking deal. Not just a common occurrence.
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:56 AM   #97
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He's only made 1 guy. The man has been the top star for 8 years and has only made 1 guy. That is the bigger issue especially considering him losing has been shown to not hurt him. He has never been hurt by losing clean. I'm not saying he needs to lose every month, but at this point he doesn't need to be built up anymore. He needs to build up other guys.
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:57 AM   #98
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Ziggler beating clean in a cage match would have been fine as long as they didn't follow it up with the 3 month span they ended up going with Ziggler.

His loses should be few and far between though.
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:58 AM   #99
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I agree, but more than once every 3 years. Who has beaten Cena cleanly more than once and been established as a long term main eventer after feuding with Cena? The only guy I can name is CM Punk and that helped push him into the stratosphere.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:03 AM   #100
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Cena did establish Edge, but I can't recall Edge actually beating Cena clean. That fit with Edge's character though. So, I aplogize - CENA has made 2 GUYS in 8 years on top.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:03 AM   #101
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It depends on if they guy/situation is good enough for the win to catapult him to something else and isn't just gonna be a waste. Del Rio beating Cena on Raw isn't one of those moments. It would just be the commentators trying to act like beating Cena is a big deal like they've done a shitload of times. It wouldn't matter in 2 weeks.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:06 AM   #102
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So, they should never try and push anybody? Hell, there is no guarantee anybody will be "good enough" to be catapulted to that level.

I know. The Rock losing to The Hurricane really hurt WWE and The Rock. What a waste.

Isn't that always what people bitch about? WWE not going all the way/all-in with guys? They push and de-push and rotate in "flavor of the month" pushes that doesn't really help anybody? ADR beating Cena to help re-establish the WHC and following it up with great booking would be damn effective in helping Del Rio, Ziggler, the WHC, and no harm would come to Cena because he is basically GOD in the WWE world.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:10 AM   #103
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It wouldn't matter in 2 weeks.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:10 AM   #104
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For fuck's sake, Ziggler just beating Cena clean in one of those matches would have done wonders for him. Instead, he looked like a bitch when he fought the big dogs. You don't build guys like that. FFS, even Austin showed weakness and failure during his run and he was a bigger draw than Cena ever thought about being.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:10 AM   #105
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Sweet T beat Cena twice on Raw.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:12 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Sweet T beat Cena twice on Raw.
...and the booking following that is what doomed Tensai (along with a lame gimmick). You're whole reasoning is "WWE can't book worth a shit, so they should just keep riding Cena until he's dead and then be fucked like they were when Hogan left WWF in the early 90s or when Brock/Austin/Rock all left within a 2 year period.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:13 AM   #107
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For fuck's sake, Ziggler just beating Cena clean in one of those matches would have done wonders for him. Instead, he looked like a bitch when he fought the big dogs. You don't build guys like that. FFS, even Austin showed weakness and failure during his run and he was a bigger draw than Cena ever thought about being.
1) Why you're still trying to argue about Ziggler beating Cena clean when I just said a few posts above that it would have been good as long as they followed up with him, I don't know. (Though a competitive loss to show he's pretty close to Cena's level would have been good, too.)

2) Austin lost WAY less than Cena. Beating Austin in any situation was a much bigger deal in big part because of it. It's not even close.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:15 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
1) Why you're still trying to argue about Ziggler beating Cena clean when I just said a few posts above that it would have been good as long as they followed up with him, I don't know. (Though a competitive loss to show he's pretty close to Cena's level would have been good, too.)

2) Austin lost WAY less than Cena. Beating Austin in any situation was a much bigger deal because of it. It's not even close.

Austin's run on top is half the length of Cena's. Of course he loss less just because of simple math.

Austin went 4 years: 97-99, late 2000-mid 2002.

Cena had been on top for 8 years.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:17 AM   #109
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Also, my whole point is that even with as much as Cena loses (which isn't all that much), it's never clean and doesn't accomplish anything. Edge is the only guy to ever actually get consistent heat working against Cena and gaining anything from winning via shenanigans.

CM Punk beats him clean and made to look like a legit threat: it's guaranteed to be the hottest match and best match on the card.

Brock Lesnar looks like a threat to Cena and the match becomes a huge draw and for the first time in ages the entire crowd gets behind a Cena comeback.

The Rock/John Cena matches are a big deal because he is a legit threat to Cena.

If nobody ever looks like a threat to Cena, then what is the fucking point of paying $45.99 to see the match? Either Cena wins or he loses via some wacky finish that doesn't really accomplish anything other than cheapen the finish to a PPV I just dropped money on.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:19 AM   #110
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And Cena's probably got more losses clean or otherwise in any 6 month span or so than Austin had in his entire run on top.

In fact, I'm not sure Austin lost cleanly period in that run.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:22 AM   #111
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Please show me this 6 month span where he jobbed out clean all the time. Austin also had other ESTABLISHED LEGITIMATE THREATS to face off against. Cena has none other than Punk or part-time guys.

Stone Cold also seemed to be "chasing" the belt a hell of a lot more than Cena has. The money is always in the chase for the title.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:25 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
And Cena's probably got more losses clean or otherwise in any 6 month span or so than Austin had in his entire run on top.
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Please show me this 6 month span where he jobbed out clean all the time. Austin also had other ESTABLISHED LEGITIMATE THREATS to face off against. Cena has none other than Punk or part-time guys.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:26 AM   #113
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lol you missed the point
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:27 AM   #114
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Austin had more legitimate threats because character development wasn't shit like it is now. If you wanna make someone look like a threat, "have them beat Cena" is a fine start... until everyone starts doing it and then it means shit.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:28 AM   #115
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Austin lost to some shenanigans too. Kane beating him in 1st blood match, the magic teleporting briefcase, Kane/Undertaker three-way where they couldn't pin each other, ol' fashioned screw jobs, etc. He didn't have the title from fall of 1998-WrestleMania XV.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:29 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Austin had more legitimate threats because character development wasn't shit like it is now. If you wanna make someone look like a threat, "have them beat Cena" is a fine start... until everyone starts doing it and then it means shit.
your attitude sucks big time buddy
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:29 AM   #117
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Or you can actually put in the effort of building them up over time to the point where the Cena confrontation is intriguing.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:29 AM   #118
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Quote:
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Austin had more legitimate threats because character development was shit like it is now. If you wanna make someone look like a threat, "have them beat Cena" is a fine start... until everyone starts doing it and then it means shit.
...but it still has to start with beating an established guy. You still basically sound like you think they shouldn't put anybody over Cena just because they might not book it right. That's just pure apathetic bitchiness.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:30 AM   #119
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Or you can actually put in the effort of building them up over time to the point where the Cena confrontation is intriguing.
Well, no shit Sherlock, but it defeats the whole purpose of building a guy up to face Cena (see: Ziggler and countless others) just to have them be made to be his bitch.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:30 AM   #120
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Austin lost to some shenanigans too. Kane beating him in 1st blood match, the magic teleporting briefcase, Kane/Undertaker three-way where they couldn't pin each other, ol' fashioned screw jobs, etc. He didn't have the title from fall of 1998-WrestleMania XV.
Yes. And Cena loses to shenanigans. Just much more often. Guys were somehow able to look like threats to him just fine.
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