Going to be a negative nancy here...

[Bad News Gertner]

How does he not deserve a push? He was rushed into a feud and then put intoo no win positions? Thaanfully RybAxel will be tag champs in a month.

[Wishbone]

Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner How does he not deserve a push? He was rushed into a feud and then put intoo no win positions? Thaanfully RybAxel will be tag champs in a month.

He doesn't deserve a push because he already got one. It didn't work because fans aren't the same easily impressed masses they were in the 80's and 90's. It takes more than huge muscles to get you over now. Ryback is mediocre on the mic and below average in the ring. In the Hogan era his physic alone would have made him a main eventer, but today that doesn't fly. Why do you think guys like Punk and Bryan are among the most popular? It's because the wrestling world has changed. Even the average fan is somewhat of a "smark" now.

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by Wishbone He doesn't deserve a push because he already got one.

You sure you don't wanna take that back? You realize all the guys you've just said don't deserve a push with that one sentence?

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by Wishbone It didn't work because fans aren't the same easily impressed masses they were in the 80's and 90's. It takes more than huge muscles to get you over now.

They seemed pretty impressed when they were... ya know... GOING FUCKING CRAZY FOR HIM.

It didn't work because he got over and they immediately butchered the way he was being booked. Seriously, even a lot of the Ryback haters here have acknowledged that. It's unbelievable that people still try to reason that a guy who was getting huge reactions and then once he started getting those reactions didn't win a major match for a year failed for any reason other than booking. He got over on being a badass the crowd could get behind to take care of the heel and then they made him into a loser. Ridiculous.

[Bad News Gertner]

Originally Posted by Wishbone He doesn't deserve a push because he already got one. It didn't work because fans aren't the same easily impressed masses they were in the 80's and 90's. It takes more than huge muscles to get you over now. Ryback is mediocre on the mic and below average in the ring. In the Hogan era his physic alone would have made him a main eventer, but today that doesn't fly. Why do you think guys like Punk and Bryan are among the most popular? It's because the wrestling world has changed. Even the average fan is somewhat of a "smark" now.

A great big man will always get over more than a guy like Punk and Bryan. ALWAYS. Wrestlers are real life superheros, not your average ordinary guy. Nobody gives two fucks about workrate and that's what bothered the internet about Ryback: that a 300 pound muscle guy still gets crazy over with mediocre ring skills.

[Tom Guycott]

Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner A great big man will always get over more than a guy like Punk and Bryan. ALWAYS. Wrestlers are real life superheros, not your average ordinary guy. Nobody gives two fucks about workrate...

... which is why nobody EVER chants "boring", or worse, gives no reaction, because its all about how how the guy looks and nothing whatsoever to do with being entertaining in the ring.

I get your contention that Indy McKickpads becoming an internet sensation doing 80 flips and planchas per 60 minute Iron Man matches shouldn't be signed by Vince and become world champion a month later, which is how the early adopters of "the next hot new thing" tend to see him, but there are more "real life superheroes" than goddamn Superman... and Spider-Man should never be as popular as he is because he's just some skinny kid. You have to see how stupid it sounds that you're basically saying Daniel Bryan shouldn't be as over as he is unless he grows at least 4 to 6 inches, or that someone who matches what he is step for step is automatically a bigger draw if they're taller.

You hate Punk and Bryan because of what they supposedly represent. Noted. However, that same hatred sould be applied to Cesaro as well. He was an indy darling, he works hard, is entertaining, has a damn good workrate... oh, wait, he happened to have genetics that let him grow a few more inches, so he gets a pass. And he should be outdrawing and out merchandising the World Heavyweight Champion right now because he is an excellent big man, right?

Just being big and/or muscular isn't enough. Especially anymore. Punk and Bryan got to their heights in spite of it. Really, so did Shawn Michaels. And Ric Flair. And Chris Jericho. And Edge... and why we don't wax poetic about Nathan Jones, or Matt Morgan, or John Heidenreich. People around here bitch about Sheamus all the time, and he absolutely passes the "walk down the street/know he's a superstar" test. He can put on good matches and is pretty entertaining in and out of the ring. His height and build doesn't make him more over than Punk, who, if he walked out to the ring tomorrow on RAW would blow the roof off before he even sterted his promo.

But again, none of these people have anything to do with how utterly generic, bland, and nondescript Rusev is right now. In a wold full of big men, it takes something more than being yet another big man to stand out. As much as he's being labeled Kozlov 2.0, he is just as much Tensai, without the unacknowledged past. Neither of these comparisons are good.

[Bad News Gertner]

Originally Posted by Tom Guycott ... which is why nobody EVER chants "boring", or worse, gives no reaction, because its all about how how the guy looks and nothing whatsoever to do with being entertaining in the ring. I get your contention that Indy McKickpads becoming an internet sensation doing 80 flips and planchas per 60 minute Iron Man matches shouldn't be signed by Vince and become world champion a month later, which is how the early adopters of "the next hot new thing" tend to see him, but there are more "real life superheroes" than goddamn Superman... and Spider-Man should never be as popular as he is because he's just some skinny kid. You have to see how stupid it sounds that you're basically saying Daniel Bryan shouldn't be as over as he is unless he grows at least 4 to 6 inches, or that someone who matches what he is step for step is automatically a bigger draw if they're taller. You hate Punk and Bryan because of what they supposedly represent. Noted. However, that same hatred sould be applied to Cesaro as well. He was an indy darling, he works hard, is entertaining, has a damn good workrate... oh, wait, he happened to have genetics that let him grow a few more inches, so he gets a pass. And he should be outdrawing and out merchandising the World Heavyweight Champion right now because he is an excellent big man, right? Just being big and/or muscular isn't enough. Especially anymore. Punk and Bryan got to their heights in spite of it. Really, so did Shawn Michaels. And Ric Flair. And Chris Jericho. And Edge... and why we don't wax poetic about Nathan Jones, or Matt Morgan, or John Heidenreich. People around here bitch about Sheamus all the time, and he absolutely passes the "walk down the street/know he's a superstar" test. He can put on good matches and is pretty entertaining in and out of the ring. His height and build doesn't make him more over than Punk, who, if he walked out to the ring tomorrow on RAW would blow the roof off before he even sterted his promo. But again, none of these people have anything to do with how utterly generic, bland, and nondescript Rusev is right now. In a wold full of big men, it takes something more than being yet another big man to stand out. As much as he's being labeled Kozlov 2.0, he is just as much Tensai, without the unacknowledged past. Neither of these comparisons are good.

The people who chant "boring" aren't the core fanbase. A big man with mic skills will always be better than a skinny dweeb with the same and you can take a monster and make them into something regardless of mic or ring skills.

No wonder why ratings are shit. Vanilla midgets populating the roster, there's no mystique to it anymore. Nash was right. Send these guys back to the mid card.

[Wishbone]

Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner The people who chant "boring" aren't the core fanbase. A big man with mic skills will always be better than a skinny dweeb with the same and you can take a monster and make them into something regardless of mic or ring skills. No wonder why ratings are shit. Vanilla midgets populating the roster, there's no mystique to it anymore. Nash was right. Send these guys back to the mid card.

"The people who chant boring aren't the core fan base" Bullshit. You constantly say that every time the crowd proves you wrong. And the ratings aren't down because of "vanilla midgets" they're down because wrestling itself isn't popular anymore. Face it, pro-wrestling is even less mainstream than comics nowadays. Being a wrestling fan is damn near on par with being a Brony in today's atmosphere.

As for your other argument about wrestlers being real life super heroes I'm going to assume you don't read comics. Most of the most popular comic book characters today are not giant musclebound he-men. People like characters with depth and relatability. The days of Superman are over just like the days of the 80's stereotype wrestler are over.

Size has nothing to do with a wrestler getting over today. By the 80's and 90's standard John Cena is pretty small. Fans today want characters that they can get behind, not mythical heroes. Even kids today know wrestling is fake, it's just not the same product you grew up with whether you like it or not.

Wrestling will never reach the popularity it had in the Attitude era ever again. The fact that it's still getting ratings at all is amazing in and of itself. You also make it sound like WWE is getting TNA level ratings. Even with the "shit ratings" you say they have they're still outdoing almost every TV show on cable.

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by Wishbone Even kids today know wrestling is fake

Which is all the more reason why it should not try to be "realistic" with skinny, homeless looking, average guys who look like they play video games all day and can't even spell the word "gym" on top. You claim the "real life Superhero" model is outdated yet ignore that before that era began, Bob Backlund was on top for 6 years. Because people still thought of it as real and any run of the mill, normal looking regular joe could be on top. THAT era is over and outdated and should never come back. Wrestling has been outed as scripted entertainment. At this point to try to focus it on "real life guys" is to basically strive to be an openly fake UFC. Or worse... ROH.

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner A great big man will always get over more than a guy like Punk and Bryan. ALWAYS. Wrestlers are real life superheros, not your average ordinary guy. Nobody gives two fucks about workrate and that's what bothered the internet about Ryback: that a 300 pound muscle guy still gets crazy over with mediocre ring skills.

This pretty much sums up the point I've been trying to make since this recent "average guy push" in the WWE. Hell, I tried to make it 10 years ago when people actually thought putting the title on Benoit at a milestone WrestleMania was a great idea. The homeless looking, barely 200 lb "regular guy" workrate heroes have a place in wrestling. They're useful. They should be nothing more than supporting characters though. Wrestling is at it's best when it features larger than life characters. Without that, it's basically a fake UFC. A bunch of regular looking guys fighting except it's scripted.

The last thing WWE should be trying to do is be more like ROH.