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Old 07-06-2014, 01:57 PM   #1
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What are people's thoughts on Jericho/Wyatt
I am annoyed by it, and here is why...

I have heard people like Lance Storm and other guys in the business refer to Jericho as "teflon", and that he can come and go as he pleases and lose to whoever, come back, and still be as valuable. For me, this is simply not true.

I have read recently that Jericho's return is being used to "elevate" Wyatt, and, for me, that is the sort of attitude that annoys me. Many people on here may not agree with me, but I feel like a win over Jericho will do absolutely nothing for Wyatt. Jericho has lost almost every major PPV match on his returns before and fans don't forget that imo. A win over Miz on Raw is not enough to establish Jericho as a big deal anymore, nor is his charisma or promos.

You know what needed to happen? Wyatt needed to go over Cena properly, and he would already be established. If they knew that Cena was going to bounce back strong and beat everyone at MiTB, why didn't they let Wyatt get the win before that?

Having lost to Cena, they now expect to build momentum with a feud and win over Jericho....and it will do absolutely nothing for him. I hope he doesn't pay the price for that, like others have before (see Ryback). I can see it happening too, because there are not a lot of feuds waiting for him after this one, which already seems like an emergency option.

I know a top star shouldn't lose too often, but this isn't a thread to complain about Cena. It's the opposite actually, he is their only star and I think that's a massive problem, especially if they refuse to take golden opportunities like this one, and then continue to "elevate" people and blame them if they don't get over without any wins against top guys.


What are peoples' thoughts on this?
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Old 07-06-2014, 02:40 PM   #2
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Gotta agree with regards to Jericho. A lot of people like the fact that Jericho comes back to put over new talent (much like RVD) but I'd question whether a win over either of those guys counts for all that much.

That said, I'm pretty stoked to see what Jericho/Wyatt do with promos, etc. Should be good.
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Old 07-06-2014, 02:50 PM   #3
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I enjoy his matches and his work too, but these temporary returns just don't have the same value for me. He is not the same threat to anyone because you know nobody will invest in him or RVD, because they are only here for a few months anyway. It seems very predictable to me and not much fun.

I don't even mind the angle though or the idea, but the chance that this is their idea of "elevating" Wyatt worries me, hoping it is not true.
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Old 07-06-2014, 03:03 PM   #4
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Wins and losses don't "make" wrestlers though. Matches and storylines do.
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Old 07-06-2014, 03:13 PM   #5
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Thanks for the thread Bray.
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Old 07-06-2014, 03:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
Wins and losses don't "make" wrestlers though. Matches and storylines do.

Only up to a point, at the end of the day, stars get the big wins. That's how Cena got to where he is, winning and being successful. You need both. If you don't get important wins, fans don't buy into you in the same way.
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Old 07-06-2014, 03:53 PM   #7
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I dunno. I've invested a lot into Brooklyn Brawler. I'm convinced its gonna pay off.
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Old 07-06-2014, 03:53 PM   #8
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...Bray.
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Old 07-06-2014, 03:59 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
Wins and losses don't "make" wrestlers though. Matches and storylines do.
yes yes yes yes 1000 times yes
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Old 07-06-2014, 05:35 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Maluco View Post
Only up to a point, at the end of the day, stars get the big wins. That's how Cena got to where he is, winning and being successful. You need both. If you don't get important wins, fans don't buy into you in the same way.
Do we really need to bring up CM Punk's reign of PPV losses?
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Old 07-06-2014, 05:43 PM   #11
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This thread is pure blasphemy.
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Old 07-06-2014, 06:23 PM   #12
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I love Jericho as a wrestler. Dude can get it done, no prob.
I dislike part timers. They take up room on the roster that someone else could use.

I don't think that the Wyatt/Cena feud should have ended. Bray had the perfect excuse to laugh at Cena's win, as he didn't knock him out. End it with an I Quit match where Bray could have made Cena say I Quit by threatening to hit a Cena fan with a chair, just for Cena to quit and blast the fan anyways.
I'm glad that Bray has gone onto other things, as I really dislike seeing the same card recycled.

I'm okay with Jericho vs Wyatt because it gives Wyatt something to do with an established star.
I'm not okay with the concept because it's a part timer going up against someone who should be in the main event.

So I have mixed emotions.
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Old 07-06-2014, 06:25 PM   #13
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Jericho/Wyatt will be a main event/marquee matchup though. It's not like Jericho/Wyatt will open the show.
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Old 07-06-2014, 06:44 PM   #14
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The feud itself should be good and while it might not elevate Bray like what the Cena feud should have done, its going to at least give some sort of real direction for Bray.

All the Cena feud did to establish was Bray being the type who talks a lot but barely backs it up with real action considering the Mania loss and Cena dominating the whole Family during most of the cage match.
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Old 07-06-2014, 06:47 PM   #15
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Old 07-06-2014, 06:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Jericho/Wyatt will be a main event/marquee matchup though. It's not like Jericho/Wyatt will open the show.
Perhaps I should have said "title scene" instead of "main event", albeit they should be one in the same.
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:25 PM   #17
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The feud should be great promo-wise and the matches should be good.

I do agree though that Jericho's feuds now are brought down by the fact that you know he only exists to put guys over before he leaves. I love Jericho and RVD but I can't really get too invested in their feuds anymore knowing they exist only to job to anyone, whether it be the "flavor of the month" or an upcoming star.

Remember Fandango pulling off the "biggest upset in WrestleMania history" with a clean win over Jericho? Remember Ryback beating Jericho clean? Yeah, they've used Jericho enough to put over guys who went on to be jobbers to where it doesn't raise anyone's value at this point.
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Old 07-06-2014, 08:31 PM   #18
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I'm not trying to sound biased here, but keep in mind it's Jericho's choice to come back and put the younger talent over. It's not like they bring him back just to job him out, he wants to help younger guys get over.

There's not a lot if people in the business who would do that. And to be honest, as much as I'd live to see it, of he came back short term to go over and win the world title, that would piss me off more than what he does.
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Old 07-06-2014, 08:32 PM   #19
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And if anybody takes notice of his social media, he is begged multiple times daily to come back when he's gone. I'm going to enjoy this run, because it could be one of his final, if not last.
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Old 07-06-2014, 09:08 PM   #20
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Jericho is one of the all time greats. I remember being at vengeance in Detroit back in 2002 and John Cena got his first ppv win over him. There was a good number of people in the crowd pissed that this no-name dude beat the first unified champion. So yeah, a win over Jericho will definetely help Wyatt. He may even become the next John Cena!
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Old 07-06-2014, 09:25 PM   #21
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I'm not trying to sound biased here, but keep in mind it's Jericho's choice to come back and put the younger talent over. It's not like they bring him back just to job him out, he wants to help younger guys get over.

There's not a lot if people in the business who would do that. And to be honest, as much as I'd live to see it, of he came back short term to go over and win the world title, that would piss me off more than what he does.
I don't think anyone's making a comment on whether it's Jericho's idea to just put guys over or if it's the company's doing.

The question is, is it really effective anymore? Good for Jericho for putting guys over. When the guys he's put over are Fandango, Ryback and Dolph Ziggler though and they end up becoming jobbers almost immediately after, it doesn't make going over Jericho much of a big deal anymore. The guy's a glorified jobber himself at this point.
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Old 07-06-2014, 09:27 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Tazz Dan View Post
And if anybody takes notice of his social media, he is begged multiple times daily to come back when he's gone. I'm going to enjoy this run, because it could be one of his final, if not last.
Want to make clear here that I think he is great. One of my favourites of all time, anytime I am disappointed in something he does, it is as a fan who expects a lot from him and how he is used, but this thread is definitely not to complain about him.

If I was bringing Jericho back, I would want it to be for something big. He is a star and was the first Undisputed champ. My argument is that the way they use him now, to put over younger guys, doesn't work because it is done too often. Think he deserves to be treated better tbh. I think he himself probably regrets Fandango now too possibly.

The focus of the thread was to complain about how they expect young guys to be elevated by this process. They won't be imo.

I get the comment about Punk too, but he got the big win too, didn't he? He beat Cena and looked his equal when they faced off. I think that makes a difference.
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Old 07-06-2014, 09:32 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Shisen KOTF View Post
Jericho is one of the all time greats. I remember being at vengeance in Detroit back in 2002 and John Cena got his first ppv win over him. There was a good number of people in the crowd pissed that this no-name dude beat the first unified champion. So yeah, a win over Jericho will definetely help Wyatt. He may even become the next John Cena!

This is a great point and he talks about it in his book. He actually asked for Cena to go over, but this was back when a win over Jericho was a big deal, like it should be. You can't just bring a guy back, have him lose a feud to a new star, and then give him a win against a midcarder on RAW to help balance it out.

What Jericho is doing is admirable, and generous tbh, but the problem is not with him. It is with how WWE thinks guys should be "elevated". Stop-start pushes and wins over part-timers who never win, not to mention bizarre losing streaks which kill momentum that they created (Cesaro)
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:29 PM   #24
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I don't think anyone's making a comment on whether it's Jericho's idea to just put guys over or if it's the company's doing.

The question is, is it really effective anymore? Good for Jericho for putting guys over. When the guys he's put over are Fandango, Ryback and Dolph Ziggler though and they end up becoming jobbers almost immediately after, it doesn't make going over Jericho much of a big deal anymore. The guy's a glorified jobber himself at this point.
Effective or not, the guy is a draw. Sure, to us smart fans, it's annoying that the guys he's put over haven't continued to be pushed, but that's not his fault. And the feuds have been great. Don't forget he also came back for a run with CM Punk a couple of years back too. But I agree with you and what you're saying from a IWC point of view. I guess in the bigger picture, the average fan doesn't care that he's back short term, and we like to over-analyse everything, something I'm also guilty of.

But like I said, not trying to sound biased because of who the thread topic is about, but his runs to me are much better than say a Rock or Batista return.
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:29 PM   #25
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Fuck, did that post even make sense. I'm having treatment right now, and the drugs are making me drowsy.
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:29 PM   #26
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:31 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazz Dan View Post
Fuck, did that post even make sense. I'm having treatment right now, and the drugs are making me drowsy.

Made sense to me. We tend to overthink everything and to casual fans Jericho is a big deal and beating him will always mean something even if only in the short term.
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:32 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maluco View Post
This is a great point and he talks about it in his book. He actually asked for Cena to go over, but this was back when a win over Jericho was a big deal, like it should be. You can't just bring a guy back, have him lose a feud to a new star, and then give him a win against a midcarder on RAW to help balance it out.

What Jericho is doing is admirable, and generous tbh, but the problem is not with him. It is with how WWE thinks guys should be "elevated". Stop-start pushes and wins over part-timers who never win, not to mention bizarre losing streaks which kill momentum that they created (Cesaro)
That sort of contradicts your thread title if this is your concern. If you can acknowledge that it's not so much Jericho returning, and the booking of his opponents after he leaves, I'd re-word your original post. Because you don't really give that impression in it that that is what you're getting at.
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:34 PM   #29
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Made sense to me. We tend to overthink everything and to casual fans Jericho is a big deal and beating him will always mean something even if only in the short term.
Exactly. You only need to see the responses he gets when he returns. Both his Royal Rumble last year and Raw last week come backs got bigger pops than Stone Cold at Wrestlemania this year.
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:44 PM   #30
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Fandango beating Jericho at Wrestlemania was a huge deal for him. They didn't do anything with that momentum, but they could have.
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:52 PM   #31
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This thread rates a 7.6/10 on the rasslin serious business scale.
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:02 PM   #32
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Fandango beating Jericho at Wrestlemania was a huge deal for him. They didn't do anything with that momentum, but they could have.
They could have. The fact that they didn't though only makes the accomplishment less of a big deal. And then Ryback's follow up made it less of a big deal. And so on. My point is, if they just keep using him to put guys over who don't actually get over and instead become instant jobbers, it doesn't make beating him seem like much of an accomplishment. Everyone SHOULD beat Jericho clean. He's jobbed to guys who were jobbing to midgets within a year.

He'll make good TV with his promos and he'll have a great match. I'm glad he's back. Going over him in a feud though means absolutely nothing at this point though for building the other guy as more of a threat.
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:05 PM   #33
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Jericho is greatly outnumbered against the Wyatt's. He needs Ralphus and Mr Hughes in his corner.
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:09 PM   #34
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(RIP Ralphus)
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:21 PM   #35
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:41 PM   #36
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That sort of contradicts your thread title if this is your concern. If you can acknowledge that it's not so much Jericho returning, and the booking of his opponents after he leaves, I'd re-word your original post. Because you don't really give that impression in it that that is what you're getting at.
It's not about Jericho, his usage is just an example of a wider problem. The problem is using him to get Wyatt "established", so don't see the contradiction you are getting at.

No problem at all with Jericho returning, but constantly using him to put over new talent weakens him and makes it meaningless. It won't help Wyatt get "established". Like I said before, hope that is not what they are trying to do.

If it is just a fun angle, then great, love Jericho and love a good story. I read the opening post again and actually think it's pretty clear.

A win over Cena would have given Wyatt so much, and taken so little from Cena, especially when he was due a massive win at MiTB. Jericho should be treated as a much bigger deal, but he hasn't been. Maybe addressing him in the first sentence gave you that impression but I was just making the example. Jericho has always been great and am a big fan, so maybe I am biased (possibly unrealistic?) too, in that I think he should be used better and jobbed sparingly on his returns.
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:46 PM   #37
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The serious business institute has upgraded this thread to 8.4/10. Things are getting super serious.
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:49 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
They could have. The fact that they didn't though only makes the accomplishment less of a big deal. And then Ryback's follow up made it less of a big deal. And so on. My point is, if they just keep using him to put guys over who don't actually get over and instead become instant jobbers, it doesn't make beating him seem like much of an accomplishment. Everyone SHOULD beat Jericho clean. He's jobbed to guys who were jobbing to midgets within a year.

He'll make good TV with his promos and he'll have a great match. I'm glad he's back. Going over him in a feud though means absolutely nothing at this point though for building the other guy as more of a threat.
This is exactly how I feel. My point is that I hope that they don't expect the feud to build Wyatt in any way. If they don't, fine...but what feuds are left to help build him now? I felt they missed a massive chance with Cena.
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:50 PM   #39
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The serious business institute has upgraded this thread to 8.4/10. Things are getting super serious.
I would like a 9.5 before the end of the thread, at least. Should Tatanka be used instead of Jericho!??
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Old 07-07-2014, 12:16 AM   #40
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There needs to be more references to Jericho's jacket and Wyatt's beard to really turn it up a notch. How about this....jacket vs beard match? Now it's a 9.5
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