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Old 10-23-2014, 01:30 PM   #1
Kalyx triaD
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Let's say we buckle and reboot ourselves. New name, a leadership counsel, all of that. But then the trolling continues. What then?
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Old 10-23-2014, 02:34 PM   #2
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It will be about timing. Gamergate's root causes are nothing out of the ordinary nor is there anything wrong with most of them as you laid them out:

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- The end of gender bias in games journalism.
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- Disclaimers of any prior relationships between journalist and subject (Kotaku and others have already started this to their credit).
Still think this one is no one's business - on either side.


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On a broader, yes, certain paid articles and corporate shilling needs to end or at least downplay.
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Writers need to differentiate between a game review (which should focus on merits of the game), and their own personal of a game's subtext. This is a tricky line, but a lot of us have been bothered with how game articles are written nowadays. Polygon's Bayonetta 2 review said nothing that would help a potential buyer, but it sure was sexist, eh? They can have blog spaces for that conversation. Gaming needs to be about gaming again.
Is this the review you refer to?

If so, they talk about both subjects - graphics, new gameplay featuers, as well as the over-sexualization of the main character. Oddly enough, a pretty decent chunk of the game is it's art direction, which has to do with her clothes coming off as you chain higher combos. As as integral part of the game mechanics, albeit visually, it can still be offensive to some people and they can have their opinion. In addition, you do not know that it did not help a potential buyer, unless you believe everyone is as in-depth a gamer as you say.

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The end of toxic discourse in the gaming community. GamerGate and Game Journos can together make a huge stand against this age old behavior, we're too busy blaming each other. Nobody, nobody wants to be harassed, threatened or dox'd. Together we need to vilify this behavior. Understandably you can't stop a troll from being a troll, but since we both hate them, we can certainly make their lives hell.
Both groups will lose (and already have) against the trolls. They have nothing better to do and will ruin the cause (as they have) for both sides. If GG echoes the bolded sentiment, I would advise to rethink that strategy.

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Integrity, not even of the job specific kind.
The problem lies that as the GG movement grew, the trolling was way out in front and now any and any associations are tied to the movement. Just as any "hot button" multimedia topic, it will die down given time. It is before that time (such as now) that GG, as a unified movement, to reinvent themselves and their image.

Anything at this point will be lost in the turmoil and both sides will point fingers at one another, trolls will help fuel the propaganda by pointing fingers for both sides as well. No one wins, no one is winning and both sides look like complete asshats.

Last edited by drave; 10-23-2014 at 02:35 PM. Reason: reasons?
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Old 10-23-2014, 05:43 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by drave View Post
Still think this one is no one's business - on either side.

No. That review was more than likely a bait article. It was less than three whole paragraphs and it reads like a caricature of what they know we hate about game today's game reviews. I'm referring to how reviews were written in the last console generation. I've had issues with that years before GamerGate.

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If so, they talk about both subjects - graphics, new gameplay featuers, as well as the over-sexualization of the main character. Oddly enough, a pretty decent chunk of the game is it's art direction, which has to do with her clothes coming off as you chain higher combos. As as integral part of the game mechanics, albeit visually, it can still be offensive to some people and they can have their opinion. In addition, you do not know that it did not help a potential buyer, unless you believe everyone is as in-depth a gamer as you say.
I would assume the kind of person, not even a hardcore gamer just a casual type, could look at Bayo's marketing and kinda know what they're in for. So while most people may be as in-dept as me and others, they don't need to. Hell, the Bayo2 review you linked - that writer doesn't need to be a versed in action games as I am either. He didn't need to be the kind of guy who Platinum rated all of Bayo1's challenged, or climbed 30 levels in DMC4's Bloody Palace; but there are degrees.

A lot of today's game reviews are shallow and at times totally paid parts of the marketing. It's easy to spot. Does a guy reviewing a fighting game need to know why meter management is important in BlazBlue? No. Hell, I actually like when they reveal they don't know about that deep stuff, but what is the value of a review written from the other end of the spectrum? People who seem to not know the point of the game? What good is that to a potential buyer?

If I started writing car reviews, with my extremely casual knowledge of cars, and said something like, "The new Camaro may excite fans of a certain yellow autobot, but unless it wants to further push women away from the sacred car enthusiast circle - it should really consider women's body proportions in more ways than simple seat adjustment."

Now I certainly have a right to say that, but what do you think will be the common reaction? Here's this guy who doesn't seem to know duck about cars, critiquing cars, and applying politics where nobody saw it before. I mean, this could help potential buyers. Perhaps some women would like to read that message, but I'm guessing other women who knows their cars would still find me ridiculous.

Let's make it interesting; I decide to Tweet to detractors of my marvelous Camaro that their beef with my piece is just them defending their boys club and rejecting female interests. I then make a follow-up piece that challenges Chevy to make a statement this the matter of female accommodation. I ignore female car enthusiast telling me I'm using shame tactics, and make implications that the male critics are just dismissive of women's issues. Remember; I'm a guy who still knows shit about cars next to an enthusiast.

My problem is not that people have opinions. It never was. But I'm learning throughout this debacle that people think opinion are all weighted the same by virtue of being opinions. And that's not how it works. Me saying my review could help potential buyers falls flat when much better reviews from more versed people would do a better job helping the same consumers.

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The problem lies that as the GG movement grew, the trolling was way out in front and now any and any associations are tied to the movement. Just as any "hot button" multimedia topic, it will die down given time. It is before that time (such as now) that GG, as a unified movement, to reinvent themselves and their image.
Curious; how would we go about that? Because we'd still hold journalists accountable and contact companies when needed. Changing the name would not put trolls at bay, they'd just act out under this new GG 2.0. And if anything, rebranding the movement would also validate that most of the harassment has been on our side. Like the republican ad that needed to say they're people too. We don't need to rebrand ourselves as people against harassment because we are right now people against harassment. No matter what we call ourselves trolls will take advantage.
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Old 10-24-2014, 04:23 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
Let's say we buckle and reboot ourselves. New name, a leadership counsel, all of that. But then the trolling continues. What then?
Why reboot? Why not just shut it down completely? The aim of what you're trying to accomplish isn't going to happen, and frankly it's somewhat silly. You can point to trolls being the bad guys all you want, but even if that is the case the movement gives them the cover to do so. Read an article on Uproxx today that sums it up better than I could say it.

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What would you say to any GamerGaters who got to the end of this instead of skipping down to the comments?


Simply this: If you look at the facts, people are being hurt. Because of their opinions about games. Games are fun, but they shouldn’t be the most meaningful thing in your life. If you put a consumer product ahead of the health and safety of other people, that shows a profound lack of perspective. In short, it’s not about you. So stop trying to make it that way.
People are getting hurt. Even if it's "not actually your movement" why not just knock it the fuck off for the greater good?
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Old 10-24-2014, 04:29 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Miotch View Post
Why reboot? Why not just shut it down completely? The aim of what you're trying to accomplish isn't going to happen.
Then I guess we have nothing to talk about, sorry.
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