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Old 11-28-2014, 01:10 PM   #161
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even the kaitlyn comment is stupid, and even moreso since aj is "off the market," too.
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Old 11-28-2014, 01:18 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Pierre View Post
WWE sounds like a huge unethical mess, but if it's been that awful for that long, Punk should have left a long time ago.

Instead he decided to curse everyone out, stay, and agree to work just to try to "main event Mania." Putting so much stock into "going on last" makes him sound like more of a mark.

Based on his side of the story, he was mistreated medically/professionally which sucks and is way wrong, but the shit didn't hit the fan until he realized he wasn't going to be "the guy" at WM30.

WWE is definitely a mess, but Punk also sounds ridiculous for going along, enduring all the shit, and not leaving sooner just to maybe have a chance to "go on last".
I feel like you kind of have to be a mark for yourself to succeed in wrestling, or else wtf is the point?
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Old 11-28-2014, 01:20 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Pierre View Post
WWE sounds like a huge unethical mess, but if it's been that awful for that long, Punk should have left a long time ago.

Instead he decided to curse everyone out, stay, and agree to work just to try to "main event Mania." Putting so much stock into "going on last" makes him sound like more of a mark.

Based on his side of the story, he was mistreated medically/professionally which sucks and is way wrong, but the shit didn't hit the fan until he realized he wasn't going to be "the guy" at WM30.

WWE is definitely a mess, but Punk also sounds ridiculous for going along, enduring all the shit, and not leaving sooner just to maybe have a chance to "go on last".
He came off somewhat petty a few times, I'll agree. But being told you are a top guy a million times and then not being treated/paid like a main guy would be frustrating for anybody. Especially when he is near killing himself and bending over backwards for Vince. And what guy in the company doesn't want to main event WM?
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Old 11-28-2014, 03:07 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
That pretend title comes with a pay raise. The top guys get paid more than the midcard and lowcard guys. If he gets depushed for attempting to tend to his own injuries, he could suffer a pay cut. He will also less less merchendise. I know that you know this.
He can be a top guys without a belt.
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Old 11-28-2014, 05:08 PM   #165
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The staph infection and concussion tests are the only things I feel warrant outrage and anger. The rest is just him feeling he was held down when he was pushed harder than anybody not named Cena in the past decade. All the "business side" anger comes from the fact that Punk needs to accept the fact that despite being a better "worker", he isn't the level of superstar that Cena/Rock are and Daniel Bryan was a bigger star than him at the time of his walkout.
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Old 11-28-2014, 06:59 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron the dial View Post
even the kaitlyn comment is stupid, and even moreso since aj is "off the market," too.
Hey I like who I like.
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Old 11-28-2014, 09:24 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
The staph infection and concussion tests are the only things I feel warrant outrage and anger. The rest is just him feeling he was held down when he was pushed harder than anybody not named Cena in the past decade. All the "business side" anger comes from the fact that Punk needs to accept the fact that despite being a better "worker", he isn't the level of superstar that Cena/Rock are and Daniel Bryan was a bigger star than him at the time of his walkout.
Punk makes a lot of valid points in the way he, and other superstars, were used in the WWE over the past couple years.

Punk was made WWE Champion and given the longest reign of the modern era - he is also the only one to outsell Cena's merchandise. But he was never given the position as "the guy." How many PPV's did he main event during his record breaking WWE Title reign? How many of those were with John Cena?

Punk really did deserve the WWE Championship match at WrestleMania 29. A triple threat match would have been fine. I don't know who they would've had to face Undertaker - they could have done Brock vs. Taker a year early, and then had Brock beat him in the rematch the following year. Plenty of other options as well. But Punk was still red hot as the WWE Champion, and the storyline of Punk wanting to keep his record breaking title reign, Rock wanting the title, and Cena wanting his victory over Rock would've made perfect sense - plus all three of those guys played off each other so well.

I don't think he's denying that Bryan was more over than he was by the time WM 30 rolled around. I think what he's upset about is that the WWE wasn't going to recognize that Bryan was over and deserved a spot in the main event, but he was going to get passed over for part-timers, just like Punk had been passed over for part-timers for the two years prior.
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Old 11-28-2014, 10:39 PM   #168
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Right. Had punk not left daniel Bryan would have not even been close to a main event feud.
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Old 11-29-2014, 01:59 AM   #169
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Replied extensively about this on the other thread. But my major concern is Punk's issues regarding the medical staff which I think ought to be addressed. Given this story now appears being carried in many media outlets, will this trigger some sort of medical investigation? To misdiagnose/ignore something as major as staph infection is a very serious issue of malpractice.
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Old 11-29-2014, 03:01 AM   #170
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Most of the stuff he said about the booking was dead on. Triple H putting himself over him at his peak for example was fucking retarded. But he wasn't on the level to be main eventing WrestleMania with Rock and Cena and didn't belong in the match. Is it partially their fault for not putting in the booking effort to make him at that level? Sure. But as it stood, he didn't belong in the main event with the two of them.
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Old 11-29-2014, 05:55 AM   #171
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All deleted like a bitch.
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Old 11-29-2014, 07:41 AM   #172
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Anyone saying Punk didn't deserve to be in the main event of a Wrestlemania. Lets not forget this was the company that had Miz main event at 27.....
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Old 11-29-2014, 09:05 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercenary View Post
Anyone saying Punk didn't deserve to be in the main event of a Wrestlemania. Lets not forget this was the company that had Miz main event at 27.....
He did deserve to main event mania but not at that time given that Cena v Rock II was always destined to be on the card and the only way to portray the rematch as being bigger was to have the title on the line.


Personally I'm not a fan of anything other than one on one title match at Wrestlemania (for the WWE title). It is the company's flagship show, their Super Bowl, World Cup final etc etc. as it were and it's only fair that the number one guy at that time i.e. the champ, should defend against the best challenger and both share the limelight together.

The title match at WM should AWAYS be what it was meant to be, the champ vs the RR winner. Adding extra competitors for me just diminishes the significance of winning the Royal Rumble and indeed the Royal Rumble match itself.
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Old 11-29-2014, 10:29 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercenary View Post
Anyone saying Punk didn't deserve to be in the main event of a Wrestlemania. Lets not forget this was the company that had Miz main event at 27.....
The Rock wasn't wrestling at that Wrestlemania
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Old 11-29-2014, 10:33 AM   #175
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And Punk was Cena's "TV program" until Mania
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Old 11-29-2014, 11:42 AM   #176
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Cody Rhodes put out this Tweet (it's his personal account, as his "official" one is Stardust)




And Colt responds:




A couple of other guys have made tweets about the podcast as well only to delete them. Oddly it seems that most of the guys are taking aim at Cabana for providing Punk with the outlet to talk rather than blaming Punk himself.
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Old 11-29-2014, 12:45 PM   #177
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Not cool Cody, not cool.
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Old 11-29-2014, 01:28 PM   #178
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So when's Cody debuting his podcast?
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Old 11-29-2014, 01:42 PM   #179
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Colt Cabana is a full brand, not just a professional wrestler. A successfully marketed brand at that. Maybe not at the level of a Hulk Hogan or a Rock, but he's made a good living with how he's marketed himself.
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Old 11-29-2014, 01:56 PM   #180
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I fucking heart Colt Cabana so much but he knew what he was doing before he did this. He signed his death warrant with the WWE. That's not to say that they would have hired him anyway.
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Old 11-29-2014, 01:59 PM   #181
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I did enjoy the fact that the podcast was sponsored by 2K15
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Old 11-29-2014, 02:07 PM   #182
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Quote:
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Most of the stuff he said about the booking was dead on. Triple H putting himself over him at his peak for example was fucking retarded. But he wasn't on the level to be main eventing WrestleMania with Rock and Cena and didn't belong in the match. Is it partially their fault for not putting in the booking effort to make him at that level? Sure. But as it stood, he didn't belong in the main event with the two of them.
Yeah. Pretty much this. I think the main point is that WWE not making an effort to elevate new stars for the past 10 years is pretty inexcusable. You can watch WWE-produced docs on the fall of WCW where they pan Bischoff and Russo for not making new stars but they are pretty much doing the exact same thing. Taking the quick money instead of looking to the future is not how you sustain business. I mean, I get the Rock/Cena super matches on the money making side of things but neither one of them benefit from a win over the other. Now if they had booked Rock vs Punk with a one year build and Punk went over, he would've gone into the stratosphere.

I mean, it's easy to say Punk is full of himself but he isn't really wrong. He had the best chance of being their new money maker and his legs were cut out from under him in 2011. Nobody had a better shot than him of being the new face of the company at that time. Bryan, of course, but he didn't hit his stride until a few years after the Summer of Punk.
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Old 11-29-2014, 02:12 PM   #183
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Is it not insane to anybody else looking back to 2006 and realizing that absolutely no progress has been made since then in creating new stars? That should be infuriating to most of you.
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Old 11-29-2014, 03:02 PM   #184
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Another symptom of this disease is the fact that Punk was put in the ring with a guy who wasn't ready for the position he was put in and Punk got injured as a result.
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Old 11-29-2014, 03:04 PM   #185
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I fucking heart Colt Cabana so much but he knew what he was doing before he did this. He signed his death warrant with the WWE. That's not to say that they would have hired him anyway.
The ship sailed on Colt going back to WWE a few years ago I believe. I know they've brought him in to NXT to do commentary work, etc. but for the most part Colt's been clear that he loves to wrestle and hopes he can do it until he's an old man. WWE as best I can tell recognized his personality and versatility but saw zero value in him as an in-ring performer.

Even though he would have made more money in WWE I think he would have turned down any potential offer as he wants to stay in the ring. Plus many of his side projects would have had to go through the WWE filter, etc.
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Old 11-29-2014, 04:06 PM   #186
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Is it not insane to anybody else looking back to 2006 and realizing that absolutely no progress has been made since then in creating new stars? That should be infuriating to most of you.
It baffles me how often WWE seem to be right on the brink of creating a new star only to just kinda fizzle out and shunt them back to the midcard after the end of a program. In the past 5 years WWE has just had a terrible time with trying to find guys who stick near the top of the card. I'm not saying these guys would have been Orton/Cena level...but surely they could have at least found a few guys to be perennial "believably plug them into a 2-3 month title program on a dime" guys.

-Kofi Kingston was over as fuck in 2009, pinned Orton AND Punk at Survivor Series, beat the shit out of Orton in MSG. Then he screwed up a move, Orton threw a tantrum, the program ended and Kofi has been decidedly a midcarder ever since.

-Jack Swagger beat Orton mostly cleanly in a feud for the World Heavyweight Title, they seemed to actually be invested in making him an important character, but then Kane and Taker's 10,000th feud took over on SmackDown and Swagger went to Superstars.

-Wade Barrett could have been solidified as a main event player during the Nexus angle and possibly could have even faced Cena at WrestleMania. Instead Cena squashed the Nexus in short order, killed Barrett on PPV, and Barrett went off to SmackDown to tread water for ages. Yes he did pick up a couple of big injuries along the way and I LOVE the Bad News Barrett character that resulted but I'd be very surprised if he ever got higher than IC Title range.

-Sheamus won the WWE title twice within a few months of being on the main roster, yet he never came close to feeling like "the guy". They gave him another shot with the World Heavyweight Title and a great feud with Bryan but then the brand split ended and his title officially became a midcard belt and he's been in the midcard ever since. Of the guys on this list I think he's a heel turn away from being back to believable main event status but right now WWE seem insistent on keeping him a face.

-Alberto Del Rio looked like he'd be a big deal, but he failed numerous times on winning the World Heavyweight Title after his "destiny" angle. Had a shitty WWE Title run for a month. Eventually just became another guy, won the World Heavyweight Title but again only after the split ended and it was a midcard belt. Already has been vocal about the lack of creative direction from his time in the company.

-Ryback's case is well documented. Put aside the talk of him being stiff, beefs with Punk, etc. The guy looked like he was going to be fucking huge and they just didn't strike when the iron was hot. His heel run was awful. Injury was a blessing in disguise as it seems they're giving him another chance as a big time face but it remains to be seen where things go.

-Dolph Ziggler is another guy who the crowd seemed interested in who could have been stepped up but again he only won the World Heavyweight Title after it was devalued, and he's been in the same midcard spot. Maybe the Survivor Series ending could be the start of something big for him but I think he was just the most logical guy to win the match more than anything else.

-Mark Henry could have been the top heel in the company had they kept him going as he was in the summer of 2013. Even losing to Cena at MITB 2013 wouldn't have mattered. Imagine if he was one of the Authority's top guys once Bryan won the belt? Would have made for an interesting David vs. Goliath deal. Instead they abruptly turned him face and now he's already heel again a year later. He's pretty much in the same spot as Big Show at this point.

-Cesaro never even got a shot at the top. The guy was absurdly over on the heels of the Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal. Probably should have turned the night after. But even then, pairing him with Heyman could have made a lot of sense and set up a big face push down the line once Heyman bailed on him for Lesnar. Instead they split ways with little explanation offered and he's now fallen into the "hell of a hand" role that history suggests he's not likely to recover from.

Again...I'm not saying that ALL of these guys could have become top level guys. There were always going to be a couple that flaked out or couldn't stick and settled into the midcard. But most of them pretty much had their legs cut out from underneath them before they could really show that they belonged. There's no reason a couple of these guys couldn't be at a point where they could go into a title program and no one would bat an eye. More realistic options near the top of the card = more possibilities for booking rather than needing to go to Cena vs. Orton as the default "big match".

In spite of all of this, WWE still has plenty of guys that COULD be main event players if given proper direction. Seth Rollins is excellent, as is Dean Ambrose. Roman Reigns seems to have the backing of creative, and hopefully he can come in like a house of fire when he returns. And this may be slightly controversial but I still think Bray Wyatt can be a permanent top of the card heel still, I don't think him jobbing to Cena is going to be his legacy. They also seemed to be trying to make Daniel Bryan a permanent fixture at the top (in spite of the dumb Kane feud) but unfortunately with his injuries being so major I'm not sure they'll risk putting him near the top again. It remains to be seen.

Whatever, that's enough of my Noid post for now. Kinda depressing.
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Old 11-29-2014, 05:29 PM   #187
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Don't forget Zack Ryder. He defeated (then) World Heavyweight Champion Mark Henry to become the #1 contender for Dolph Ziggler's United States title. That takes balls.
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Old 11-29-2014, 06:50 PM   #188
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Not cool Cody, not cool.
He had a brief back and forth with Sam Roberts and said he didn't mean Colt Cabana, so I think this is just a case of Cody Rhodes being bad at the internet.
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Old 11-29-2014, 08:44 PM   #189
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Could add Bray Wyatt to that list considering how huge a win over Cena at Mania or the feud in general would have been for him. As well as Cena's character going into a really interesting direction had he lost at Mania.

With Barrett, surprisingly it looked like he was going to recover from the Cena-Nexus debacle until Big Show decided to be a huge moron. Was looking like the heavy favorite that year to take the MitB case and instead Big Show decided to be way too careless throwing Ziggler to the outside.

Don't think Big Show was even punished for it unlike recent incidents where someone got deliberately hurt (ex. Miz "forgetting" to catch a flying R-Truth, Swagger depushed for hurting Ziggler).
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Old 11-29-2014, 09:02 PM   #190
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All deleted like a bitch.
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Old 11-29-2014, 09:02 PM   #191
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Is it not insane to anybody else looking back to 2006 and realizing that absolutely no progress has been made since then in creating new stars? That should be infuriating to most of you.
It's a product of not giving a shit about the midcard and then suddenly trying to push a guy from nothing to megastar in the blink of an eye. I remember reading an interview with a guy who was a writer on Smackdown back in the mid 2000s who talked about how creative was trying to write storylines for midcarders and Stephanie sent out an email telling them to stop worrying about midcard and just focus on Cena. With so much more TV time nowadays, the fact that midcard storylines are so few and far between is pretty ridiculous. It's like Vince got a lobotomy and forgot the basic ideas that make shit work.
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Old 11-29-2014, 09:04 PM   #192
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OMG RYBACK DELETED TWEETS. TOTAL BITCH MOVE. GONNA TOUT ABOUT IT.
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Old 11-29-2014, 09:09 PM   #193
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Yes yes yes yes, yes. Yes yes yes yes, yes.
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Old 11-30-2014, 01:08 AM   #194
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As much as I love Punk's shoot and found it extremely entertaining, it's also incredibly depressing. Yes, Punk was burnt out and he deserved a long break from the grueling road schedule. He was sick and injured and felt like he was being underutilized - time off was the way to go. But now that he's been fired and pretty much sealed his fate in the eternal dog house of the WWE (especially once Vince dies), we will never see the Best in the World in a WWE ring again.

Maybe it's the best thing for him. But I feel like after a few years away, he might've felt ready to come back to the WWE again - to give it one more shot. Not for money or for fame, but because, from the CM Punk documentary and everything I know about the man, I think the guy truly loves wrestling. And if you're going to wrestle, you may as well do it on the biggest stage in the world.

He did accomplish a lot, but I think a WrestleMania main event was definitely in the books for him if he just stuck it out a couple more years. Eventually he was going to get it - he was too good at what he did, too over, and too vocal about how much he wanted it to NOT get it eventually. It didn't have to be CM Punk the young guy wrestling in the WM main event - it could just as well have been CM Punk the heel veteran, as champion, putting over an up and comer like Dean Ambrose or Roman Reigns or someone else at Mania in a few years time. It would have happened eventually.

It makes me sad to know that I'll never watch another CM Punk match or hear another CM Punk promo. He was one of the few stars I really liked watching. Currently, there's actually not a single person on the roster who gets me excited about the product. And as a fan since 1997, that's quite sad. Punk was the last guy who made me a big mark.

I think he still had a lot left to give to the business. A guy like Punk can help elevate guys like Roman Reigns and Ambrose and Bray Wyatt.

Is it the WWE's fault completely for not taking care of Punk? Is it Punk's fault for not taking care of himself? Probably a little bit of both. Whatever the case, it's a disappointing state of affairs when it's come to a fact that we'll likely never see Punk in a WWE ring again.
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Old 11-30-2014, 01:24 AM   #195
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CM Punk's WWE run was marred with bad booking. He was undefeated then lost to Hardcore Holly and was the first to be eliminated from the Elimination Chamber at December to Dismember. He did end up winning the World Heavyweight Title really quickly, but it did feel like he was most logical choice to win each Ladder Match, as the other guys were sort of just "there."

Punk made SmackDown in 2009 so fucking great. His feud with Jeff Hardy was brilliant stuff, and it sort of got short-changed for The Undertaker getting another run and Punk sort of dropping back down.

Chris Jericho really should have won the 2012 Royal Rumble to go to war with CM Punk at WrestleMania XXVIII. Cena vs. Rock probably should have still headlined, but Punk vs. Jericho needed a little something more to it.

I was all for the Triple Threat at WrestleMania XXIX. It could have been a better match and a rub for Punk just to be in there.

Punk vs. Cena would have also made a great match at WrestleMania XXVII, but I'm not sure if it would have been for the title or headlined.
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Old 11-30-2014, 01:58 AM   #196
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But now that he's been fired and pretty much sealed his fate in the eternal dog house of the WWE (especially once Vince dies), we will never see the Best in the World in a WWE ring again.

Maybe it's the best thing for him. But I feel like after a few years away, he might've felt ready to come back to the WWE again - to give it one more shot.
I honestly don't think it would have been that long at all. Still think there could have been a definite chance for a return at Summerslam when you look at the timeline. I'm trying to see things through the eyes of a guy who was hurt, tired and frustrated. I really believe him when he says during the interview that he told HHH that after he gets married & comes from back from the honeymoon he would talk. However, HHH went back to that "fk him, we'll do business for him" approach and put the nail in the coffin way too early. Partly because of ego and partly because of Punk asking for his royalty money.

I still think though that Punk should have made the first move after his suspension was over to try to talk things out...certainly before bringing up M.O.N.E.Y.

Now, with HHH pretty much wanting to "kill" Punk, I'm sure it won't be long before they give him the Benoit treatment. I hope all of you CM Punk fans saved your DVDs and aren't relying on the network for his matches!
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Old 11-30-2014, 02:09 AM   #197
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I honestly don't think it would have been that long at all. Still think there could have been a definite chance for a return at Summerslam when you look at the timeline. I'm trying to see things through the eyes of a guy who was hurt, tired and frustrated. I really believe him when he says during the interview that he told HHH that after he gets married & comes from back from the honeymoon he would talk. However, HHH went back to that "fk him, we'll do business for him" approach and put the nail in the coffin way too early. Partly because of ego and partly because of Punk asking for his royalty money.

I still think though that Punk should have made the first move after his suspension was over to try to talk things out...certainly before bringing up M.O.N.E.Y.

Now, with HHH pretty much wanting to "kill" Punk, I'm sure it won't be long before they give him the Benoit treatment. I hope all of you CM Punk fans saved your DVDs and aren't relying on the network for his matches!
Chris Benoit is a full part of the WWE Network. He's not edited out of shit.
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Old 11-30-2014, 07:25 AM   #198
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Old 11-30-2014, 07:38 AM   #199
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Garbage.
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Old 11-30-2014, 07:51 AM   #200
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