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Old 07-12-2004, 07:15 PM   #1
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Bret Hart's response to Flairs comments
As a huge Bret Hart fan i am a frequent visitor to his site.Here are his comments to Flairs book.

"I'm loading up my shotgun to respond to what Ric Flair wrote in his book, not just about me, but about several other respected collegues.
Mr. Magoo doesn't know what he's talking about"


That is straight from www.brethart.com
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Old 07-12-2004, 07:17 PM   #2
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LOL He has a section titled "Montreal" on his website.

Yeah. Vince needs to let it go.
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Old 07-12-2004, 07:23 PM   #3
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..

Dumbass it's for the rejects who still dont know the full story. He gets tons of email about that still, he's tired of talking about it.

It's there to educate the masses.

Vince is the guy still using it on his tv shows on a regular basis.
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Old 07-12-2004, 07:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen v.W.o.
Dumbass (...) he's tired of talking about it.
LOL

You Hitman marks crack me up.
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Old 07-12-2004, 07:32 PM   #5
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....

I fucking despise bret.
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Old 07-13-2004, 02:28 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Zen v.W.o.
....

I fucking despise bret.
Me too man me to.
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Old 07-12-2004, 07:34 PM   #7
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^ Then we agree on something.

Actually, I take that back. I'm a big fan of his in-ring work, and I liked him up until 1997, when he turned into a whiny bitch. I feel bad for the tragedies that have fallen on his family, but I have no pity for what happened in Montreal or any problems that befell him in WCW.
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Old 07-12-2004, 07:46 PM   #8
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Oh loopy, don't make me go off. If there is one thing that can push my button, it's this.
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
Oh loopy, don't make me go off. If there is one thing that can push my button, it's this.
Bret Hart is a whiney bitch...

*sits back, grabs Popcorn*

This should be fun...
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:08 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
Oh loopy, don't make me go off. If there is one thing that can push my button, it's this.
I was agreeing with you pretty much up until " ".
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:11 PM   #11
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Look, I've said eveything I can basically say about Montreal in that other thead a month back.
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
Look, I've said eveything I can basically say about Montreal in that other thead a month back.
Don't ruin my fun.....
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Old 07-13-2004, 07:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loopydate
I'm a big fan of his in-ring work, and I liked him up until 1997, when he turned into a whiny bitch. I feel bad for the tragedies that have fallen on his family, but I have no pity for what happened in Montreal or any problems that befell him in WCW.
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:00 PM   #14
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I love you loopy.
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Old 07-12-2004, 09:31 PM   #15
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:13 PM   #16
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:15 PM   #17
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Can I get in also?
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:19 PM   #18
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:20 PM   #19
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:21 PM   #20
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Before I ask you to comment, Kayfabe, lemme get my umbrella.
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:24 PM   #21
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Just remember. Bret had CREATIVE CONTROL in his contract and WAS WILLING to do the JOB to MICHAELS the next nigh on RAW. And he was willing to do the JOB to anyone else at Survivor Series except Michaels. Can't Blame Hart for not wanting to job to Micahels though cause that prick didn't want to JOB to him a couple of times before.
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:25 PM   #22
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couldn't contain myself
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Old 07-14-2004, 08:10 PM   #23
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couldn't contain myself
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:34 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
Just remember. Bret had CREATIVE CONTROL in his contract and WAS WILLING to do the JOB to MICHAELS the next nigh on RAW. And he was willing to do the JOB to anyone else at Survivor Series except Michaels. Can't Blame Hart for not wanting to job to Micahels though cause that prick didn't want to JOB to him a couple of times before.
If he did have creative control, why didnt Bret sue for breach of contract?



Just throwing some shit on the fire
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:43 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
Just remember. Bret had CREATIVE CONTROL in his contract and WAS WILLING to do the JOB to MICHAELS the next nigh on RAW. And he was willing to do the JOB to anyone else at Survivor Series except Michaels. Can't Blame Hart for not wanting to job to Micahels though cause that prick didn't want to JOB to him a couple of times before.
And this is a big reason why I loathe Creative Control clauses in contracts. When the wrestlers can choose who they do and don't want to job to on any given night, then that leaves the writers in a hell of a bind.

This is why so many people hate Triple H, so why do people love Bret Hart for the same reason? You'll all be creaming yourselves if Vince does a screwjob on Trips if he doesn't do a proper job to, say, Chris Jericho.
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:46 PM   #26
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You go to understand though. Bret was willing to job to anyone except Michaels. It's not like HHH where he just basically doesn't want to job to anyone. Bret has put a lot of guys over in his career and if it were anyone else, Bret would of put them ovr at Survivor Series. Mankind, Austin were some other names. It's in Foley's book

Why should he have any respect for Michaels during that time. Michaels had none for him and when Michaels was suppossed to drop the Title to him at Mania, HBK pulled out with a so called "injury" Fk'n Brain injury if you ask me. Michales was nothing but a dick who, like HHH, didn't want to do any jobs. That's why he never got beat for the Title back in that time. He only got beat months later when he was seriously injured and was thinking about retiring.
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:55 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
You go to understand though. Bret was willing to job to anyone except Michaels. It's not like HHH where he just basically doesn't want to job to anyone. Bret has put a lot of guys over in his career and if it were anyone else, Bret would of put them ovr at Survivor Series. Mankind, Austin were some other names. It's in Foley's book

Why should he have any respect for Michaels during that time. Michaels had none for him and when Michaels was suppossed to drop the Title to him at Mania, HBK pulled out with a so called "injury" Fk'n Brain injury if you ask me. Michales was nothing but a dick who, like HHH, didn't want to do any jobs. That's why he never got beat for the Title back in that time. He only got beat months later when he was seriously injured and was thinking about retiring.
I'm not condoning HBK by any means (though I'll always be a mark for his character), because he has the proverbial blood on his hands, too. He should have jobbed to Bret (and to several others), but just because he didn't doesn't give Bret any right to do the same.

He should have taken the high road, done what was asked of him (WHEN it was asked of him), then made Vince pay by pushing WCW even further over the top. Instead, he tried to pull a power play, got screwed, and has been complaining about it ever since.
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:51 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loopydate
And this is a big reason why I loathe Creative Control clauses in contracts. When the wrestlers can choose who they do and don't want to job to on any given night, then that leaves the writers in a hell of a bind.

This is why so many people hate Triple H, so why do people love Bret Hart for the same reason? You'll all be creaming yourselves if Vince does a screwjob on Trips if he doesn't do a proper job to, say, Chris Jericho.
..Is it bret's fault vince authorized it? Agreed to it? If vince didn't think Bret was loyal and worked hard enough for it, he never would have gave it. Vince put himself in this spot.
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:57 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen v.W.o.
..Is it bret's fault vince authorized it? Agreed to it? If vince didn't think Bret was loyal and worked hard enough for it, he never would have gave it. Vince put himself in this spot.
I'm not saying Vince shouldn't have agreed to it, because he really had no reason to believe that Bret would walk out on him (good call, Vince ). In a world of Creative Control clauses, that one made sense.

I'm saying that Creative Control clauses are the devil's handiwork and shouldn't exist at all, because they give wrestlers a sense of entitlement that, frankly, they don't deserve. Bret shouldn't have had one, Michaels shouldn't have one, Triple H shouldn't have one, no one should have Creative Control clauses in their contracts.

Because of situations like this.
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Old 07-14-2004, 01:51 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loopydate
And this is a big reason why I loathe Creative Control clauses in contracts. When the wrestlers can choose who they do and don't want to job to on any given night, then that leaves the writers in a hell of a bind.

This is why so many people hate Triple H, so why do people love Bret Hart for the same reason? You'll all be creaming yourselves if Vince does a screwjob on Trips if he doesn't do a proper job to, say, Chris Jericho.
Word. It's like basketball/baseball/football players wanting to know stuff going on behind closed doors, wanting a no trade clause, etc. IMO

They are property. They shouldn't have the right to decide who they lose to, when, or where. It's that simple.
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Old 07-14-2004, 07:30 PM   #31
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Word. It's like basketball/baseball/football players wanting to know stuff going on behind closed doors, wanting a no trade clause, etc. IMO

They are property. They shouldn't have the right to decide who they lose to, when, or where. It's that simple.
There is a huge difference here. Bret had creative control for the last month of his contract. It's not like he had creative control his whole tenure in the WWF and refused to drop the title or lose all the time. The reason for this clause is so his employer (McMahon) wouldn't run his name into the ground as he left. Can you blame Bret, i can't. Your talking about his livlyhood. How he support's his family. Bret was as far from political as you can get. Shawn was good at that. Faking injuries so he wouldn't have to job (now there's a winner).

This issue doesn't even compare to other sport's. Bret wasn't using politics to get what he wanted, like sport's player's do when they get a coach fired or demand a bigger contract or to be traded. Tell me when has a pro athelete ever had to worry about the owner of the team dragging them through the mud before they went to another team? It never happened. Pro athelete's have multiple choices of where they can play and make million's of dollars, wrestler's (at that time) had two places where they could make a good living, and i don't blame Bret for not wanting his name to be made to look bad. As for you saying they are property, does that mean you or i are property of our places of employment? I don't think so. I don't know about you, but i have the choice to find another job if i want to my employer doesn't own me. On the same token, if you or i take a job where we have special bonuses or priveleges that other employee's don't is that wrong? Bret had creative control for the last month of his contract, and Vince allowed it. Than mean's Bret had a right to a finish that he saw fit and Vince should have followed through with it, whether he liked it or not. It sound's like Vince is more comparible to an athelete.
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Old 07-14-2004, 07:40 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loopydate
And this is a big reason why I loathe Creative Control clauses in contracts. When the wrestlers can choose who they do and don't want to job to on any given night, then that leaves the writers in a hell of a bind.

This is why so many people hate Triple H, so why do people love Bret Hart for the same reason? You'll all be creaming yourselves if Vince does a screwjob on Trips if he doesn't do a proper job to, say, Chris Jericho.
There's a big difference between Bret and Triple H. Bret had creative control for the last month of his contract, so his name wouldn't be ruined before he left the company (which was Vince's choice). Triple H doesn't have creative control in his contract, his power is all political because of who he's married to. There's a big difference between creative control and politic's. All i need to say is look at Hogan during the 80's or the Clique during the mid 90's.
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Old 07-14-2004, 10:27 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Excellance of Execution
There's a big difference between Bret and Triple H. Bret had creative control for the last month of his contract, so his name wouldn't be ruined before he left the company (which was Vince's choice). Triple H doesn't have creative control in his contract, his power is all political because of who he's married to. There's a big difference between creative control and politic's. All i need to say is look at Hogan during the 80's or the Clique during the mid 90's.
Who gives a shit if Vince ruined his name over the course of a month with the legacy he'd built up in ten+ years with the company? WCW would have just built it back up again. They'd gotten pretty good at it.

Whether it's written or not, it's using your position in the company to make demands that are unfair of your employer.

And you asked if you're the property of your employer? Yes. Yes, you are. If your employer is paying you to, say, write legal briefs for a living, but you decide that for whatever reason you don't want to write one particular legal brief, your employer has every right to take your job and give it to someone else.

Now, before you jump back with a "But Shawn Michaels--" argument, let me say again that I'm not condoning Michaels. Frankly, he should probably have gotten the same treatment that Bret got, because some of the shit he's pulled over the years has put WWF/E in awkward positions. The double standard is unfair.

But the actions of others don't excuse Bret Hart for not doing what was best for the company and dropping the gold on the show that people paid money to watch. Even if he didn't do that, if he'd been professional, swallowed his pride, and concentrated on establishing a legacy in WCW, rather than bitching about what Vince had done to the one he had in the WWF, I'd like him more.

The fact is, he didn't do either of those things and that's why I personally don't give a shit about Bret Hart anymore. Fantastic wrestler, for sure, but also the kind of person that I can't stand.

BTW, I think you probably could have stopped after one sentence. Your name is, after all "Excellance (sic) of Execution," which makes your view pretty clear on all this.
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:26 PM   #34
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...

Actually I dont hate bret, in fact I'm a huge mark of his and damn proud to be.
And since I witnesed the screwjob live and in person, I can safely say I will always hate vince, even though at the time I didn't know wtf was going on.
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:30 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen v.W.o.
...

Actually I dont hate bret, in fact I'm a huge mark of his and damn proud to be.
And since I witnesed the screwjob live and in person, I can safely say I will always hate vince, even though at the time I didn't know wtf was going on.
Huh?

Just a moment ago, you said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen v.W.o.
....

I fucking despise bret.
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:34 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Hate-You
Huh?

Just a moment ago, you said...
..

I was being sarcastic man. Trust me, take a look at some of my posts on this forum and on rajah's..I'm anything but a bret despiser.
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:47 PM   #37
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well if there was a creative control clause it was because vince agreed to it. also bret was doing vince a favour by leaving in the middle of his contract. anyways yeah, this has been done to death.
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:48 PM   #38
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lol, why can't people just forget it now?

Someone screwed someone, it was shocking, they bitch at each other for years....end of story.


(this is fun)
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:48 PM   #39
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Flair > Hart

Flair comments on Hart (amongst others) where dead on...Bret Hart is a needs a good swift kick in the balls sometimes.
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:49 PM   #40
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Here we go again
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