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Old 06-13-2015, 04:03 PM   #1
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Do we give the NWO storyline far too much credit/attention than it truly deserves?
To expand on a point I made in a previous thread:

Sure the NWO storyline was great, it cemented Hall and Nash amongst the iconic stars of 90s wrestling and showed us that Hogan could play the face and villain superbly. Furthermore it was a ratings winner for the WCW in the Monday Night Wars and supposedly almost drove Vince and the WWE out of business (according to speculation).

But my question is, do we give it far too much praise than it deserved? I mean it seems to be the only thing Bischoff ever rambles on about in interviews and Scot Hall too never seems to have let go of the NWO storyline. Hogan and Nash at least invovled themselves in so many other memorable feuds, storylines etc.

So a couple of top stars turn bad and beat everyone up and pretend to run the show, wow big deal.

But you take that away what was WCW really left with in the mid 90s? Even making the likes of Goldberg and Crow-Sting and Bret Hart and Jeff Jarrett were only as a result of the NWO.


Don't get me wrong I never hated the storyline but I just feel it was the only thing ever going for 90s WCW and the way Bischoff talks about it in every interview since, it's almost as if we're still in 1996.

That was WCW's fault, it couldn't let go of the NWO hence the fingerpoke of doom etc.

Thoughts.....

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Old 06-13-2015, 04:04 PM   #2
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I mean HBK and Triple H whilst key to DX were not solely defined by being a part of DX and neither do they have to keep dragging it up at every opportunity.
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Old 06-13-2015, 04:17 PM   #3
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What makes the NWO storyline so great is that unlike DX it was presented as it own organization. The NWOs goal was to kill WCW and while doing that they almost killed the WWF. Can you imagine if the NWO got big enough to breakaway from WCW and form the New Wrestling Order. That was the idea of the gimmick though and it was one of the best angle in wrestling history.
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Old 06-13-2015, 04:53 PM   #4
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The main problem was to many member that were not important at all , and every week/PPV there was a run in. It got old fast.
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Old 06-13-2015, 06:55 PM   #5
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Wasn't watching during the NWO angle so the only exposure I have to it is rewatching old stuff and my older brother telling me about it. From that perspective I have to say that it's not as amazing in my eyes. I mean I get why people liked it, and what I've seen is interesting, but it never really struck me as the "greatest storyline ever". Honestly I think part of why people are so fond of it is that it's one of those things you had to live through to appreciate. If you didn't you just don't get it. Kinda like Woodstock or the Moon Landing.
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Old 06-13-2015, 07:18 PM   #6
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It was pretty friggen awesome. WCW was incredible between 96-98
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Old 06-13-2015, 07:24 PM   #7
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Like you said, it was the only thing going for WCW during that time. Even the other stuff that got over like crow Sting and Goldberg were directly linked to the NWO. That one storyline actually made Vince a "runner-up" for a while. I think it's deserving of all the praise it gets.
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Old 06-13-2015, 07:29 PM   #8
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It was the "story" Thant changed wrestling and launched the biggest boom ever.

This thread is stupid. Next thread: do we give hogan too much credit? I'm mean yeah he is the biggest star ever but it was just a good guy winning.
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Old 06-13-2015, 07:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishbone View Post
Wasn't watching during the NWO angle so the only exposure I have to it is rewatching old stuff and my older brother telling me about it. From that perspective I have to say that it's not as amazing in my eyes. I mean I get why people liked it, and what I've seen is interesting, but it never really struck me as the "greatest storyline ever". Honestly I think part of why people are so fond of it is that it's one of those things you had to live through to appreciate. If you didn't you just don't get it. Kinda like Woodstock or the Moon Landing.
It could never really be comparable to the moon landing although I know that was just a figure of speech. But in terms of the popularity of the storyline it was down to a couple of reasons imo:

1) The perception of Hall and Nash as WWF/WWE stars "invading" WCW skin to literally crossing brands and was perhaps one of the first notable times this happened although could include the appearance by Luger on the first Nitro. That in itself was exciting for fans like "OMG it's a WWF guy on WCW, what's he doing HERE?"

2) It was the first time people actually cheered the bad guys.

3) Hogan. IMO if Hogan had never agreed to take part in the storyline, it would have not even got past first base. When WWF let him go in the early 90s they thought Hogan was on the wane but how wrong they were. He simply took legions of fans with him over to WCW and even he had continued his role as face with the red and yellow, he'd have still been popular. The fact he could turn heel and do it so well was fantastic and IMO he was the greatest heel of all time.

4) Heels just weren't getting that kind of exposure in WWF where they always lost out to the faces. That's why the NWO storyline proved so popular.


"The greatest storyline ever" impression I get is from the tweets, interviews etc Bischoff and even Hall have done in the following years and all they ever seem to go on about is the NWO to the point of Hall (again IMO) seems to completely ignore the RR gimmick which I feel he only began to promote again after his HOF induction. Any intervview or podcast with Bischoff it's always NWO this, NWO that. Was the guy that one-dimensional that he could only come up with one major storyline and/or has his career in the business that barren that the NWO was the only thing he has to celebrate?

That's like Emile Heskey claiming to be one of the all time greatest England centre-forwards because he got the 5th goal in the 5-1 win over Germany in 2001. It's ridiculous. Sure the fans want to hear it and if I got the chance to meet him I'd sure ask his memories about it. But even Bischoff seems to believe his own hype that somehow the NWO was the greatest thing since sliced bread. It may well have been WCW's zenith and again IMO (using IMO a lot here) controversially: was it WCW's only real high point of the 90s with the exception of Hogan's debut? Sting and Goldberg only really figured because of the NWO.

I mean Hogan and Nash never seem to ramble on about the NWO the way Hall and Bischoff do. Perhaps that's a bad example. The former are two of pro-wrestling's all time greats, multiple world champions and main eventers in the two biggest promotions of all time. Hall was a big draw but was never "the man" or as Triple H would say "the face of the (insert brand here)"


Don't get me wrong I loved the NWO, had the merchandise and even marked out when the NWO reformed in the now infamous fingerpoke of doom.


But it was only one chapter that really ended in 1997 Starrcade when Sting beat Hogan although was flogged like a dead horse afterwards and I feel it completely overshadowed WCW to point that they weren't trying to develop other angles or storylines despite having an immensely talented roster of heavyweights and cruiserweights that the decline set in once the likes of Jericho, Benoit, Guerero all jumped ship.


the NWO made WCW and also killed WCW.
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Old 06-13-2015, 07:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Like you said, it was the only thing going for WCW during that time. Even the other stuff that got over like crow Sting and Goldberg were directly linked to the NWO. That one storyline actually made Vince a "runner-up" for a while. I think it's deserving of all the praise it gets.
But as I pointed out/alluded to, take the NWO and what was really great about WCW? The fact they kept constantly rebranding the NWO and rolling out the LWO, NWO Wolfpac etc. Just shows there wasn't much creativity in WCW and when people began switching over or back to the WWF from Jan 1999 onwards, WCW had "nothing left in the tank" to win the wars.


Again I'm not saying the NWO storyline was bad not at all but I just feel it get's lavished with way too much praise and nobody actually wants to see the flaws or negatives and Bischoff never really let go of the storyline.
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Old 06-13-2015, 07:49 PM   #11
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I'm not sure the point you're trying to make with the "take the NWO out and what was really great about WCW?" thing. Doesn't that justify the praise for the NWO?
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Old 06-13-2015, 07:53 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
I'm not sure the point you're trying to make with the "take the NWO out and what was really great about WCW?" thing. Doesn't that justify the praise for the NWO?
Maybe we could rephrase the title of the thread "the only thing the WCW had going for it was the NWO angle".



It was a good storyline but it wasn't amazing or anything and we tend to remember the feuds during that time as opposed to any of the actual matches. I rated Hogan v Sting and Hogan v Goldberg as good matches but others felt they were crap
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Old 06-13-2015, 07:58 PM   #13
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lol That's a huge rephrase.

It was amazing though. Even if it wasn't churning out 5 star matches... that wasn't what it was about. Austin vs McMahon didn't rely on match quality either and it's arguably the greatest storyline ever. And again, it was THE storyline that made WCW #1.
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Old 06-13-2015, 08:02 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
lol That's a huge rephrase.

It was amazing though. Even if it wasn't churning out 5 star matches... that wasn't what it was about. Austin vs McMahon didn't rely on match quality either and it's arguably the greatest storyline ever.
No but during the Austin v McMahon era...well...the "Attitude Era", we had so many memorable matches be the numerous Rock v Austin moments, Taker v Mankind, Triple H v Cactus Jack, some of Jericho's and Kurt Angle's matches, tag team matches etc.


My TRUE POINT is this then: Does Bischoff really go on about the NWO way too much? As I keep saying Hogan and Nash don't seem to have to do that. And if the answer is yes other than the NWO what else did Bischoff achieve in pro-wrestling? He was one-dimensional and only propped up and successful because Hogan agreed to the storyline.


People seem to always overlook the fact that Hogan was THE driving force and the only reason the NWO angle succeeded.
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Old 06-13-2015, 08:13 PM   #15
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Not one mention about titty honking in this thread. I'm disappointed.
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Old 06-13-2015, 08:28 PM   #16
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Not one mention about titty honking in this thread. I'm disappointed.
That's another point. There were no attractive NWO ladies. Miss Elizabeth never really did it for me.

Wasted opportunity for what could have been a "New World Order of Boobies...Brother!"
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Old 06-13-2015, 08:37 PM   #17
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Wasn't Kimberly Page in one of the later, shitty versions of the NWO?
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Old 06-13-2015, 10:21 PM   #18
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The nWo also had Major Gunns and Tori Wilson "Samantha". They also had the nWo Girls.
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Old 06-13-2015, 10:46 PM   #19
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Pretty sure Hitman was already quite well-established by the WWF long before he ever jumped to WCW in late-'97 post-Montréal Screwjob.
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Old 06-14-2015, 02:22 AM   #20
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The nWo also had Major Gunns and Tori Wilson "Samantha". They also had the nWo Girls.
Major Gunns was that other faction...the Misfits I believe. Torrie Wilson came into the picture with David Flair but were they both actual nwo members? I can't recall.


EDIT: OK checked out Wiki and it appears all of the above were in the NWO 2000 including a few other "nwo girls" as they're referred to and of course there was Scott Steiner's hoe Midajah or whatever her name was.
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Old 06-14-2015, 02:07 PM   #21
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nwo 2000 doesn't count
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Old 06-14-2015, 02:32 PM   #22
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It was a good angle ruined by horrible storytelling.
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Old 06-17-2015, 06:19 PM   #23
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Do people agree (or disagree) with me that the original NWO storyline only worked and had the huge impact it did because of Hogan's involvement? I couldn't imagine it would have worked if say the third man had been someone like Sting or Savage. Hogan was the greatest face of all time and his heel turn was seismic.
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Old 06-17-2015, 06:37 PM   #24
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Of course Hogan's involvement was the main reason it was so successful. That's not really a reason to knock the angle though.
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Old 06-17-2015, 06:42 PM   #25
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Of course Hogan's involvement was the main reason it was so successful. That's not really a reason to knock the angle though.
I never knocked the angle. What I'm knocking is the fact people well Bischoff and Hall mainly (from their Twitter rants, interviews etc) going on about it like it was the be all and end all and that somehow wrestling or the world never moved on.
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Old 06-17-2015, 06:57 PM   #26
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That is like saying if HHH formed DX with Jeff Jarrett would it still have been as big as it was? Of course not. That is why you put the right people in the right angle to give it the best possible outcome.
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:57 PM   #27
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Do people agree (or disagree) with me that the original NWO storyline only worked and had the huge impact it did because of Hogan's involvement? I couldn't imagine it would have worked if say the third man had been someone like Sting or Savage. Hogan was the greatest face of all time and his heel turn was seismic.

Always thought it would be cool for a video game to do that kinda thing. If you could replay old storylines but as different wrestlers. If you could choose the nWo storyline and maybe HBK jumps to WCW and forms the nWo. Could be a cool feature haven't played a WWE video game since the last Smackdown vs Raw game so it might have already been done.
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Old 06-17-2015, 08:36 PM   #28
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I never knocked the angle. What I'm knocking is the fact people well Bischoff and Hall mainly (from their Twitter rants, interviews etc) going on about it like it was the be all and end all and that somehow wrestling or the world never moved on.
If I created the NWO or was a founding member of it, I'd never shut the fuck up about it either.
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Old 06-17-2015, 08:47 PM   #29
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If I created the NWO or was a founding member of it, I'd never shut the fuck up about it either.
It kind of shows then there was nothing more to Bischoff than a brief storyline that only struck ratings gold due to Hulk Hogan.


Hogan and Nash don't rant on about it at every given moment so why Bischoff and Hall?
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Old 06-17-2015, 09:46 PM   #30
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Of course Hogan's involvement was the main reason it was so successful. That's not really a reason to knock the angle though.
I think WCW's biggest fault with it was allowing all the different n.W.o. spin-offs to form and not really allow the original to be as dominant as they should've been in the later years.

As for the 2002 WWF/WWE debacle, that was just a matter of terrible booking and making way too many guys a part of the group...I mean, Big Show, Booker, X-Pac...really?! And that's just to name a few.
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Old 06-17-2015, 11:12 PM   #31
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WCW had some great feuds besides NWO vs WCW between 96-98. Savage vs Flair was awesome. Benoit vs Sullivan, the crusierweights, especially Eddie vs Rey. The Flock was a great storyline, especially vs Benoit. I LOVED that feud. The feud over the T.V title between Booker T and Benoit, with Fit Finlay thrown in was great. I really enjoyed WCW as a whole during that period.
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Old 06-17-2015, 11:21 PM   #32
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Savage vs Flair seemed hit or miss from watching it on the youtubes. lol sorry to nitpick.
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Old 06-17-2015, 11:23 PM   #33
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It was a very big draw for WCW in early 96. Sullivan booked it, so it's amazing.
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Old 06-18-2015, 02:16 AM   #34
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It's pretty dire though, really. And a "big draw" at the beginning of 1996 isn't exactly saying much. JUST SAYIN GUY.
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Old 06-18-2015, 03:52 PM   #35
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WCW had some great feuds besides NWO vs WCW between 96-98. Savage vs Flair was awesome. Benoit vs Sullivan, the crusierweights, especially Eddie vs Rey. The Flock was a great storyline, especially vs Benoit. I LOVED that feud. The feud over the T.V title between Booker T and Benoit, with Fit Finlay thrown in was great. I really enjoyed WCW as a whole during that period.
Everything seem rather overshadowed by the NWO who either had a direct hand in or indirectly influenced many of the feuds:

- Sting and his crow gimmick
- Ric Flair and Savage taking on the NWO at various points
- Goldberg
- the numerous rehashes
- the LWO
- Ultimate Warrior and the stupid OWN gimmick
- Even Raven's Flock as some grungey alternative to the NWO.

Whereas in the Attitude era Austin V McMahon was not the sole highlight.


People seem to think I am criticising the NWO, I'm not. I just feel that people rant about it to much to the point that really if you took it away, what was great about WCW in 90s? Sure Hogan came in 1994, brought lots of fans over, Hulkamania revived but it wasn't really anything new or unique and WCW would have probably carried on for a few more years and then become boring again.

Once the NWO bubble burst or "poked" as we should say, that was it for WCW. Not even the likes of Goldberg, DDP, Booker T, Benoit and even Bret Hart (some of the top faces in the company imo) could save it. Hart was not always a face, more an anti-hero tbh.


Goldberg's streak as champion should have continue deep into 1999 and imo the best storyline would have been for him to drop the belt to Benoit, that would have been awesome if scripted well.
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Old 06-18-2015, 05:00 PM   #36
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I'm still nWo 4 life
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Old 06-18-2015, 06:54 PM   #37
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I'm still nWo 4 life
Not me.
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Old 06-18-2015, 07:05 PM   #38
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Sting should have won cleanly, and that should have started the end of the nwo. No spin- offs. Want the Wolfpack? Have it,but without those 3 letters attached. And no Sting. Hogan can get the belt back, but Goldberg ends it permanently. Then go with new things from there, including a One-off Jericho feud that sets him up for at least a US title run. And you keep the guy around.
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Old 06-18-2015, 07:21 PM   #39
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Nobody seems to agree that it was wrong for Goldberg's championship streak to end at Starrcade and that at least he should have dropped to a face like DDP or Benoit but much later.
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Old 06-18-2015, 08:32 PM   #40
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I agree. They kinda pissed away Goldberg's streak. DDP would have been a good choice to end it. Not so much Benoit.
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