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Old 09-23-2015, 04:59 PM   #41
Ol Dirty Dastard
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Well considering Dave Meltzer is friendly with most wrestlers and they all seem to like and trust him, I generally buy his word.

The dirt sheets aren't always right but they're as good as source as any sports writers dishing the scoop. I think you're reaching and you assume that everyone here is a typical internet fan, when in reality this is a pretty god damned well educated (wrestling wise) group of guys who've come up watching around over 20 years. Your take is largely off base, and your arguments are painting you into a corner. If you want to debate, you need to come with better stuff than "LOL U BELIEVE THE DIRT SHEETS" because from what I see, they're mostly going on the absolute fucking dreck they have to watch every Monday Night and are not taking any behind the scenes bullshit into account.
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:01 PM   #42
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Its been stated by numerous wrestlers that the plan was Batista vs Orton at Mania.
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:01 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
The company didn't tell me anything. I'm going by what ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

you're believing tabloid level "journalists" who thrive on making up BS to sell subscriptions.
I'm going by what Bryan himself said (but of course, it could be a smokescreen)

http://www.newsday.com/sports/pro-wr...reer-1.9811542
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:03 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
He jobbed when now?

Confirm what exactly? The TV storyline that it was originally Bats vs Orton? That's called kayfabe.
You are actually talking complete bullshit. I expect more from you. He jobbed to Bray Wyatt in the opener at the rumble. Bautista won the rumble and expected to face Orton (Bautista face, Orton Heel) at Mania. But the fans took a steaming dump on it because the fed botched Bautista's return, which if you watch the product (not follow the dirt sheets) they quite clearly did. He was getting booed when he was supposed to be a mega face returning after a long absence. Please dispute me on this, and tell me it's all kayfabe, without sounding like a complete blowhard. I dare you.

The product is lacking, there is no true steam behind it, and whenever there is any steam they are very quick to go back to the status quo as fast as possible. In saying that, the in ring product is pretty good, but with no meaning. They are clearly booking week to week, and the business itself is just too big for a guy like Vince to keep up with anymore, but he's the only game in town.
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:04 PM   #45
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But you're making the discussion about something it's not.

Simply, there are a lot of people that aren't happy with the product (half a million that were watching last year but aren't this week, for example).
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:06 PM   #46
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Oh look, another thread turned into a CyNick argument.
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:10 PM   #47
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Yeah, it's a little silly. He's like a black hole (or a car crash).
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:16 PM   #48
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I'm always a little worried I'm being circular with my arguments but unfortunately he takes the cake. Pretty smart guy, but he's wasting his time trying to make meaningless points.
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:27 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
You are actually talking complete bullshit. I expect more from you. He jobbed to Bray Wyatt in the opener at the rumble. Bautista won the rumble and expected to face Orton (Bautista face, Orton Heel) at Mania. But the fans took a steaming dump on it because the fed botched Bautista's return, which if you watch the product (not follow the dirt sheets) they quite clearly did. He was getting booed when he was supposed to be a mega face returning after a long absence. Please dispute me on this, and tell me it's all kayfabe, without sounding like a complete blowhard. I dare you.
Even Batista was pissed at how badly they botched his return to the point he wants nothing to do with the WWE in the near future. Mostly upset at being made into the scapegoat and having his image ruined a bit because of the WWE's ineptness.

WWE tried to pass it off as the whole thing being planned from the start in a Rolling Stones or Grantland interview but nobody believed it. Got ridiculed by the Observer I think for trying to imply any of what they said was true.
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:41 PM   #50
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His initial bone to pick which I agree with is he didn't get his moment with the fans, instead he had to come down and interrupt some stupid authority promo, just like a "regular" part of the show.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:05 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
Well considering Dave Meltzer is friendly with most wrestlers and they all seem to like and trust him, I generally buy his word.

The dirt sheets aren't always right but they're as good as source as any sports writers dishing the scoop. I think you're reaching and you assume that everyone here is a typical internet fan, when in reality this is a pretty god damned well educated (wrestling wise) group of guys who've come up watching around over 20 years. Your take is largely off base, and your arguments are painting you into a corner. If you want to debate, you need to come with better stuff than "LOL U BELIEVE THE DIRT SHEETS" because from what I see, they're mostly going on the absolute fucking dreck they have to watch every Monday Night and are not taking any behind the scenes bullshit into account.
His business relies on people like you believing WWE is a garbage fire. That drives more people to his newsletter to read about the "drama backstage". Meanwhile, he never talks to the key players who actually make these changes (Vince, Kevin, Trips, Steph). He picks up bits and pieces from mostly disgruntled workers, who likely have less than 5% of the full picture of what is going on. Then when he's wrong about something, he just goes "plans changed".

The reality is its a successful $1.3B business that continues to grow. But, sure, because you, Meltz, and a few dudes on the internet dont like how Cesaro is being booked, it means the sky is falling. Listen man, I've heard the same song and dance for more than 10 years from that guy. Its all BS. Try watching the product without reading the sheets, and try to tell me its not more enjoyable.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:06 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
Its been stated by numerous wrestlers that the plan was Batista vs Orton at Mania.
Maybe it was, maybe it wasnt. The inner circle may have had 3 or 4 ideas for potential main events. They ended up getting fully behind Bryan winning the strap.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:13 PM   #53
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You are inferring a lot from the fact that we read the dirt sheets. First of all I ain't paying for his shitty news letter and I don't listen to his radio show. I pick up bits and pieces of dirt sheet news and the rest I just go with what I see. What I often see is meandering acts and dead crowds, interspersed with some pretty good matches, and a bunch of guys who are trying to remember scripted lines. So I avoid watching very much.

People get upset watching a guy like Cesaro who is incredibly talented have the rug pulled out from under him any time he gains traction. Vince himself claimed he's not too big on Cesaro, yet whenever you give the guy a chance to really work in a good spot, he delivers. That's not Dave Meltzer telling anyone, that's what people see.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:14 PM   #54
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those consistently declining ratings sure are a great sign for their product.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:15 PM   #55
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and those ratings weren't declining when the product was at its best 15 years ago... football season or not.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:16 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
You are actually talking complete bullshit. I expect more from you. He jobbed to Bray Wyatt in the opener at the rumble. Bautista won the rumble and expected to face Orton (Bautista face, Orton Heel) at Mania. But the fans took a steaming dump on it because the fed botched Bautista's return, which if you watch the product (not follow the dirt sheets) they quite clearly did. He was getting booed when he was supposed to be a mega face returning after a long absence. Please dispute me on this, and tell me it's all kayfabe, without sounding like a complete blowhard. I dare you.

The product is lacking, there is no true steam behind it, and whenever there is any steam they are very quick to go back to the status quo as fast as possible. In saying that, the in ring product is pretty good, but with no meaning. They are clearly booking week to week, and the business itself is just too big for a guy like Vince to keep up with anymore, but he's the only game in town.
WWE didnt both Dave's return, the fans just liked Bryan more, and wrongfully expected Bryan to return in the Rumble match. If WWE was so against Bryan, why keep him in main angles on TV, why not just push him down the card. He was working with HHH and Steph THE ENTIRE road to Mania. Clearly they were going somewhere with him, and clearly he was a central part of the storyline.

So why do you think WWE continues to be so successful if the product is so crap? Ever think maybe you're tastes are not aligned with the product, and you should just stop watching the product? So many people like you complain and complain, and yet you have a pretty vivid memory of every angle and match. Its like you're complaining because you think its the right thing to do. Surely if something annoyed you that much you would quit watching. Or maybe you just prefer being miserable.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:17 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XL View Post
But you're making the discussion about something it's not.

Simply, there are a lot of people that aren't happy with the product (half a million that were watching last year but aren't this week, for example).
ratings fluctuate. The business as a whole continues to thrive. Why is that?
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:18 PM   #58
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the ratings have been on a consisten decline for a decade. that's not a fluctuation. those are just facts.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:19 PM   #59
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NO DIRT SHEETS NEEDED
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:21 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smelly Meatball View Post
Even Batista was pissed at how badly they botched his return to the point he wants nothing to do with the WWE in the near future. Mostly upset at being made into the scapegoat and having his image ruined a bit because of the WWE's ineptness.

WWE tried to pass it off as the whole thing being planned from the start in a Rolling Stones or Grantland interview but nobody believed it. Got ridiculed by the Observer I think for trying to imply any of what they said was true.
So you think Grantland and Rolling Stones are less credible than the Observer? Perfect.

You're just picking and choosing who to believe. The reality showed that they had Bryan in the mix for Mania right from the start and followed through with it. Albeit maybe some elements of the overall story changed along the way, but the end game was always put Bryan on top and overcome the doubters and naysayers.

You PREFER to believe some musings of a con man who's whole business is predicated on telling half truths and making crap up to generate interest in his product. Its really hilarious how much you believe in him.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:22 PM   #61
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THE SHEETZ!!!!!
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:23 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron the dial View Post
the ratings have been on a consisten decline for a decade. that's not a fluctuation. those are just facts.
So? In your mind, if you dont have ratings at 2005 levels, you cant be financially successful?

How people consume the product today is much different than it was in 1995 and even 2005. Surely you can understand that.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:25 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
WWE didnt both Dave's return, the fans just liked Bryan more, and wrongfully expected Bryan to return in the Rumble match. If WWE was so against Bryan, why keep him in main angles on TV, why not just push him down the card. He was working with HHH and Steph THE ENTIRE road to Mania. Clearly they were going somewhere with him, and clearly he was a central part of the storyline.

So why do you think WWE continues to be so successful if the product is so crap? Ever think maybe you're tastes are not aligned with the product, and you should just stop watching the product? So many people like you complain and complain, and yet you have a pretty vivid memory of every angle and match. Its like you're complaining because you think its the right thing to do. Surely if something annoyed you that much you would quit watching. Or maybe you just prefer being miserable.
I pick and choose what I watch on the internet, and do not contribute to their pay-per-views or raw ratings... largely because I'm a wrestling fan and not a WWE fan. If I see something is good, I make a point to find and watch. If I turn on RAW for 5 minutes, it's usually shit and I turn it off. And I don't prefer being miserable because I watch tons of wrestling still, and enjoy the fuck out of it.... it just happens to be matches from 2 decades ago for the most part which I'm lucky enough with todays technology to be able to watch.

The reason why the WWE is successful is the same reason the Simpsons is successful, resting on their laurels from back when the put forth a superior product, and surviving on being a brand more than a good product. WWE is the only real game in town, and their closest competition is TNA and let's not get into that mess.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:25 PM   #64
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:27 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
You PREFER to believe some musings of a con man who's whole business is predicated on telling half truths and making crap up to generate interest in his product. Its really hilarious how much you believe in him.
You just described everyone in the wrestling business. And I think if there's one thing that's clear, it's that people don't necessarily believe Dave Meltzer, he's just a fairly credible source comparitively.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:28 PM   #66
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You are inferring a lot from the fact that we read the dirt sheets. First of all I ain't paying for his shitty news letter and I don't listen to his radio show. I pick up bits and pieces of dirt sheet news and the rest I just go with what I see. What I often see is meandering acts and dead crowds, interspersed with some pretty good matches, and a bunch of guys who are trying to remember scripted lines. So I avoid watching very much.

People get upset watching a guy like Cesaro who is incredibly talented have the rug pulled out from under him any time he gains traction. Vince himself claimed he's not too big on Cesaro, yet whenever you give the guy a chance to really work in a good spot, he delivers. That's not Dave Meltzer telling anyone, that's what people see.
So you just parrot what he says. I commend you for saving your money.

Another one of these guys who "rarely watches" but knows every angle that Cesaro has been in. Got it, you rarely watch.

Cesaro is the perfect example of a guy who wasnt ready, and really still isnt to headline. He close, but he's not there yet. He needs to work some programs, learn how to bring a crowd up and down in the course of a match, and then we'll see where we're at with him. He's got a lot of gifts, but Mark Henry is a strong mofo, and was from day, doesn't mean he should be carrying the company.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:34 PM   #67
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So? In your mind, if you dont have ratings at 2005 levels, you cant be financially successful?

How people consume the product today is much different than it was in 1995 and even 2005. Surely you can understand that.
i do understand that, but i'm not so sure advertisers or the network care. ratings are ratings.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:35 PM   #68
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god you are a patronizing fuck.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:35 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
You just described everyone in the wrestling business. And I think if there's one thing that's clear, it's that people don't necessarily believe Dave Meltzer, he's just a fairly credible source comparitively.
He's not though.

He's like a rat who gets a crumb, and thinks he knows everything that was on the dinner plate.

If he was really credible, he would have Hunter or Vince on his show, or have quotes from them in his newsletter. But its always "sources say". Its carny shit. And yes, its a carny business, but he's just like everyone in it. Yet people like you think he's talking truth, when in reality he's just pushing an agenda that props up his business model.

Its perfectly logical that WWE would go into a Mania season and have multiple avenues they can go down to get to the same end goal. If Daniel Bryan was so hated by the Vince's of the world, and they really didnt want him to have the ball, why program him with The Authority? You could just put him in an angle with the midget Bull guy, and let the fans chant "YES" for 7 minutes per show and be done with it. OR Hunter could have just beat him clean as a sheet, or at least have Orton or Batista do it. But no, they booked him to go over STRONG on the BIGGEST SHOW OF ALL TIME.

I dont know how you guys can twist that.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:36 PM   #70
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Quote:
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i do understand that, but i'm not so sure advertisers or the network care. ratings are ratings.
So did WWE get cancelled or do they keep getting signed to lucrative TV rights fee deals? Maybe I should stop reading the WWE Financial Reports, and just come to you for the health of the business.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:39 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
His initial bone to pick which I agree with is he didn't get his moment with the fans, instead he had to come down and interrupt some stupid authority promo, just like a "regular" part of the show.
Batista was really screwed over by that run on WWE TV. I remember seeing that movie he was in completely bomb at the box office right after his run. Oh, whats that? It was a financial success, and has launched Batista into the mainstream in Hollywood, and allowed him to get multiple future bookings? Hmmm makes me think he run was actually a success.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:41 PM   #72
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You PREFER to believe some musings of a con man who's whole business is predicated on telling half truths and making crap up to generate interest in his product. Its really hilarious how much you believe in him.
Are you talking about Meltzer or McMahon here?
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:41 PM   #73
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and those ratings weren't declining when the product was at its best 15 years ago... football season or not.
LOL 15 years ago.

You know how AMAZING it is to be on TV for 15 YEARS?

I love your logic. Its just...words cant even describe.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:41 PM   #74
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hahaha, you read WWE financial reports?

The fuck is your damage, boy?
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:42 PM   #75
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Quote:
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Are you talking about Meltzer or McMahon here?
Vince is a con man too, no doubt, thats the business. Or it was anyway. Now he's a publicly traded, he has to be more up front.

Meltz has no such restraint.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:43 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Batista was really screwed over by that run on WWE TV. I remember seeing that movie he was in completely bomb at the box office right after his run. Oh, whats that? It was a financial success, and has launched Batista into the mainstream in Hollywood, and allowed him to get multiple future bookings? Hmmm makes me think he run was actually a success.
His run in WWE had literally nothing to do with the success of Guardia--no, I'm not even gonna bother.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:43 PM   #77
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hahaha, you read WWE financial reports?

The fuck is your damage, boy?
Yes, I do.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:44 PM   #78
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Do those include spandex spendings and shit like that?
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:48 PM   #79
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I've often wondered if somebody from WWE secretly posts on TPWW. The more I read from The CyNick the more I'm convinced he works there.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:56 PM   #80
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Quote:
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I've often wondered if somebody from WWE secretly posts on TPWW. The more I read from The CyNick the more I'm convinced he works there.
One of these days CyNick is gonna reveal himself to have been Vince McMahon all along.
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