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Old 11-25-2015, 01:10 PM   #1
The CyNick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maluco View Post
It's sad that Cynicks arguments are inevitably the ones that are being made at the top of WWE too. Just churn out the next batch of samsie TV, nothing exciting, keep the motor running...Cena will be back soon and we can rely on him again. It's sad.
Not to beat a dead horse but if you have WWE the choice of higher ratings or higher revenues, they will always take higher revenues.

Revenues continue to grow, so overall, things are positive. Maybe the ratings are an indication of future revenue decline, but it could also be an indication of a bunch of other factors as well (ie overall decline in TV viewership).
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:13 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ lee's View Post
Ha!

I hope they keep dropping.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Why?
So maybe they start to realize that the product is not connecting with the fans. You can say all you want about how business is good but that has nothing to with the programing. Sheamus is champion that jobbed to Kalisto in the tournamrnt, Reigns is being force fed to the WWE Universe, and WWE has shit the bed building any new star power.
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:18 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
So maybe they start to realize that the product is not connecting with the fans. You can say all you want about how business is good but that has nothing to with the programing. Sheamus is champion that jobbed to Kalisto in the tournamrnt, Reigns is being force fed to the WWE Universe, and WWE has shit the bed building any new star power.
WWE feels Roman is a guy they can build around. You obviously disagree, but WWE had a plan and they are trying to see it through. As a person who watches week after week, I prefer when they slowly build someone up, like they are doing with Roman. If he fails, you try something else.

WWE has also had a ton of bad luck recently, which spoiled some short term plans.
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Old 11-24-2015, 10:42 PM   #4
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network subscriptions though guys. It makes up for all of it. ALLLLLL OF IT
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:30 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
network subscriptions though guys. It makes up for all of it. ALLLLLL OF IT
How about record intetest from advertisers.

I would recommend reading some articles about viewership on cable. It will give you a better understanding.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
How about record intetest from advertisers.

I would recommend reading some articles about viewership on cable. It will give you a better understanding.
irrelevant to what we're arguing. You're talking finance, we're talking about actual viewership of the product.

Network subscriptions going up could have very little to do with the actual product. Same with advertisers. IN FACT advertisers being interested in television series can have a lot to do with an actual decline in the integrity of a product depending on how you look at it.


#fatherknowsbest
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
irrelevant to what we're arguing. You're talking finance, we're talking about actual viewership of the product.

Network subscriptions going up could have very little to do with the actual product. Same with advertisers. IN FACT advertisers being interested in television series can have a lot to do with an actual decline in the integrity of a product depending on how you look at it.


#fatherknowsbest
At the end of the day, the WWE just wants to generate TV rights fee money. If more advertisers are interested in RAW, in theory it means USA will pay more for the rights fees. When RAW was getting 6 million viewers every week, the problem was because the product was so low rent, interest from advertisers was low.

In recent years WWE has made an effort to make the product more appealing to advertisers. Possibly at the expense of some viewers. But the net effect has been higher TV rights fees. As long as those are going in the right direction, WWE is happy.

Again, and this point will be glossed over or ignored in your response, that isn't to say a 10% WoW decline is positive, you just have to understand the bigger picture.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
How about record intetest from advertisers.

I would recommend reading some articles about viewership on cable. It will give you a better understanding.
Yeah because advertisers determine if the product is any good. Do you read your post sometimes. KFC and Hardee's are advertising on WWE programing, the product is great.
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:12 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
Yeah because advertisers determine if the product is any good. Do you read your post sometimes. KFC and Hardee's are advertising on WWE programing, the product is great.
I watched RAW, I enjoyed it. But that's just a matter of opinion. It would be a waste of time to try to convince someone to like something they dislike.

I'm just trying to put TV numbers in perspective.
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick735611
I watched RAW, I enjoyed it. But that's just a matter of opinion. It would be a waste of time to try to convince someone to like something they dislike.

I'm just trying to put TV numbers in perspective.
Its not that we diskike the WWE, we are wrestling fans that enjoy the genre of entertainment and WWE just are not connecting with us at the moment.
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Old 11-25-2015, 08:40 AM   #11
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I watch NXT on TV over here. If they dropped it, I'd probably just stop watching. Sincerely can't stand WWE's main product more than I love NXT. Vince and Kevin Dunn pretty much plucked all the talent I was really invested in from NXT anyway.
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Old 11-25-2015, 08:40 AM   #12
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I couldn't even bring myself to watch Survivor Series for free on Sunday.
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Old 11-25-2015, 08:47 AM   #13
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On a happier note, here's a picture of Noelle Foley:
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Old 11-25-2015, 09:58 AM   #14
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On a happier note, here's a picture of Noelle Foley:
How somebody that attractive sprang from the loins of Mick Foley I'll never know.
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Old 11-25-2015, 09:01 AM   #15
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Wrestling has become the most predictable thing ever. Even the most diehard fans of "technical wrestling" can't only watch for well executed hammerlocks? Actual storytelling is still needed and there doesn't seem to be any anymore. So it's no surprise their ratings are dropping.

I've not watched an episode of Raw in years, and I've seen only 2-3 Ppv matches in about 3 or 4 years. Yet I watched Survivor Series after hearing there'd be a tournament plus a Taker "anniversary match" and I knew who was going to win every match. There's nothing of interest happening.
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Old 11-25-2015, 09:48 AM   #16
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Guys Vince expected this, of course it was going to drop below the 3 million mark. There is a lot of ways to consume media these days through streaming sites for example. This is good news for WWE, 2 million is bigger than 1 million right? No other wrestling company is even at the 1 million mark. [/CyNick]
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Old 11-25-2015, 10:51 AM   #17
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well his wife is a gorgeous model lol
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:50 PM   #18
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Well the stance is this. We are looking at it from an art stand point, CyNick is looking at it from a business standpoint.

Now I know he'll tell you a bunch of horseshit about how he enjoys the product, but that is clearly because he is a troglodyte.
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:04 PM   #19
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Quote:
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he is a troglodyte.

For those visual learners:
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:14 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
Well the stance is this. We are looking at it from an art stand point, CyNick is looking at it from a business standpoint.

Now I know he'll tell you a bunch of horseshit about how he enjoys the product, but that is clearly because he is a troglodyte.
If I didn't like the product, I wouldnt watch. It would seem really odd to watch week after week, talk about it day after day in here, to then say oh I actually hate every minute of the show. What a waste of time that would be.
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:16 PM   #21
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Quote:
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If I didn't like the product, I wouldnt watch. It would seem really odd to watch week after week, talk about it day after day in here, to then say oh I actually hate every minute of the show. What a waste of time that would be.
hahahahaha you do realize most of us don't really watch right? We are just life long wrassling fans and have posted here since we were pre-teens. You fucking weirdo.
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:28 PM   #22
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Quote:
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hahahahaha you do realize most of us don't really watch right? We are just life long wrassling fans and have posted here since we were pre-teens. You fucking weirdo.
Right, but you guys who "dont watch" can site the result of every single match from every RAW.

if you actually don't watch, then you should have no opinion on the product. I dont go on a Bachelor message board and say the show currently sucks because I watched it 7 years ago. It would be ignorant.
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:36 PM   #23
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Red face
Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Right, but you guys who "dont watch" can site the result of every single match from every RAW.

if you actually don't watch, then you should have no opinion on the product. I dont go on a Bachelor message board and say the show currently sucks because I watched it 7 years ago. It would be ignorant.
I watch every week and they're only tid bits that are actually entertaining. Usually the New Day segment. A lot of it has the chance to be great but they screw it up . Big fan of Wyatt, WWE does nothing with him to build the character the way it should be. Big Cesaro fan, WWE does nothing to help the guy out. I enjoy the matches on Raw but the storutelling is weak and dull.
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:16 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Right, but you guys who "dont watch" can site the result of every single match from every RAW.

if you actually don't watch, then you should have no opinion on the product. I dont go on a Bachelor message board and say the show currently sucks because I watched it 7 years ago. It would be ignorant.
this is why people perceive you to be a ding bat by the way. Because you appeal to constant fallacies. And it's why it's most likely that you are in some shape or form trolling.

This has been addressed on multiple occasions and you've ignored it to press on with your narrative. Up your game the CyNick I know you've got more than this.
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:15 PM   #25
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lol oh jeez

You realize we all know this right? You aren't exactly reinventing our knowledge wheel. We understand many of the decisions made and why the production is the way it is. That doesn't mean we need to appreciate steaming piles of crap heaped in front of us.

For instance, we understand why the commentators no longer really story tell or commentate matches. They need to SHILL SHILL SHILL because of the advertising and the pace they have to move at. We get it. It's a tough fucking job with the expectations placed in front of them. It doesn't make it any less soul less.

WWE is a money making machine, it's not wrestling. Many of us like wrestling. We also like Sports Entertainment, and stories which we can really take a bite out of. But that means the stories being told have to speak to us. Which they don't. Because the product isn't very good, because it doesn't have to be. Because they won years and years and years ago. So instead of appealing to people with half a brain and making a decent cohesive product, they appeal to advertisers for higher tv fees. That's fine. But that doesn't mean the product is good. Which you love to argue.

Mind you, if you enjoy it that's your deal. Fine. Cool. Amazing. It's great that you have no taste.
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:24 PM   #26
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lol oh jeez

You realize we all know this right? You aren't exactly reinventing our knowledge wheel. We understand many of the decisions made and why the production is the way it is. That doesn't mean we need to appreciate steaming piles of crap heaped in front of us.

For instance, we understand why the commentators no longer really story tell or commentate matches. They need to SHILL SHILL SHILL because of the advertising and the pace they have to move at. We get it. It's a tough fucking job with the expectations placed in front of them. It doesn't make it any less soul less.

WWE is a money making machine, it's not wrestling. Many of us like wrestling. We also like Sports Entertainment, and stories which we can really take a bite out of. But that means the stories being told have to speak to us. Which they don't. Because the product isn't very good, because it doesn't have to be. Because they won years and years and years ago. So instead of appealing to people with half a brain and making a decent cohesive product, they appeal to advertisers for higher tv fees. That's fine. But that doesn't mean the product is good. Which you love to argue.

Mind you, if you enjoy it that's your deal. Fine. Cool. Amazing. It's great that you have no taste.
You claim to understand the reason behind decisions, yet you're in this thread acting like a 10% decline in viewers is a major event.

WWE to be successful needs to appeal to a wide base. What's intetesting is people like you think your opinion on the current state of the product is the right one. When someone like me comes along and says I actually like the show, I am the villain. I've never once told anyone they are WRONG for disliking the product. Yet, you claim I have no taste.

It's funny to me that you guys get worked up that a weekly viewer of RAW actually enjoys RAW.
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:17 PM   #27
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Sorry before you try "strengthen" your argument. We keep up but we don't watch. Because we love wrestling. But we don't sit around watching RAW knowing we hate it. We love wrestling and WWE is all there really is in the main stream. So we gripe about it because we're passionate on something we always loved growing up.


Okay now tell me how I don't understand and am a lesser being than you.
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:24 PM   #28
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Roman does fail every time he picks up a mic. Vince is dead set on pushing the guy that doesn't deserve the push he's getting.
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:30 PM   #29
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Roman does fail every time he picks up a mic. Vince is dead set on pushing the guy that doesn't deserve the push he's getting.
So why do you think Vince is dead set on pushing him? Is he trying to lose money?
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:33 PM   #30
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So why do you think Vince is dead set on pushing him? Is he trying to lose money?

His look. That has always been his thing.
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Old 11-25-2015, 03:41 PM   #31
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Roman does fail every time he picks up a mic. Vince is dead set on pushing the guy that doesn't deserve the push he's getting.
1. i think thats hyperbole.

2. whats your definition of deserve?
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Old 11-25-2015, 06:38 PM   #32
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1. i think thats hyperbole.

2. whats your definition of deserve?
Someone who can actually connect with fans. Roman is not a tier guy and I don't believe he will be as long as he's playing John Cena 2.0 . The guy has potential to be " the guy" just not at the moment. Guys like Cesaro, Ambrose, Owens, and Ziggler are more deserving in my opinion. Reigns is being force fed and he just comes off as a phony.
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Old 11-25-2015, 06:46 PM   #33
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So you answered your own question. Reigns sells, that's why he was chosen and continues to be pushed.

This goes back to this thing where people are expecting WWE to cater to everyone individually.
I answered YOUR question to someone else.

The point was that despite Reigns selling a lot of merch (to kids), most people who have been long time viewers and are > 10 years old do not care for him or his very boring character, nothing more.

Selling a lot of merch =/= good entertainment.
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:27 PM   #34
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Wow you're casting a lot of emotions on me big guy.

You're allowed to enjoy the product, we're allowed to bring up reasons we think you're wrong.

And I don't think it's the end of the world. I just think it's indicative of the fact that they aren't producing quality. They're the only game in town so the ratings will be back. But once again #fatherknowsbest
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:29 PM   #35
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Wow you're casting a lot of emotions on me big guy.

You're allowed to enjoy the product, we're allowed to bring up reasons we think you're wrong.

And I don't think it's the end of the world. I just think it's indicative of the fact that they aren't producing quality. They're the only game in town so the ratings will be back. But once again #fatherknowsbest
You can come up with reasons I am wrong to enjoy something? You are some next level narcissist.
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:28 PM   #36
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Really hate how Reigns was champion for 5 minutes and has never held another singles title and has an automatic rematch already. What has Roman done to deserve a rematch? It just lazy booking and storytelling.
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Old 11-25-2015, 05:38 PM   #37
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Really hate how Reigns was champion for 5 minutes and has never held another singles title and has an automatic rematch already. What has Roman done to deserve a rematch? It just lazy booking and storytelling.
Yeah, and Cynick argues that it's WWE "slowly" building him up. That's absurd. He hasn't even won another singles title. Yeah, it's slow if you consider the fact that Vince's first attempt at making Roman a world champ/main eventer never took off because it was rejected so blatently before it started. Instead of trying to build Roman up in between he just decides to wait a while without having Roman successfully get more over before basically trying the same thing again.
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Old 11-25-2015, 05:48 PM   #38
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Yeah, and Cynick argues that it's WWE "slowly" building him up. That's absurd. He hasn't even won another singles title. Yeah, it's slow if you consider the fact that Vince's first attempt at making Roman a world champ/main eventer never took off because it was rejected so blatently before it started. Instead of trying to build Roman up in between he just decides to wait a while without having Roman successfully get more over before basically trying the same thing again.
At the end of the day, it looks to me like the plan was always to get the title on Rollins. I think they decided it made more sense long term to avoid having Brock lose, and get the belt on Rollins. That way you still have the story of Reigns finally getting to the top of the mountain and you could still sell Brock vs Reigns as unfinished business.

But the mistake they made was involving Daniel Bryan. That hurt Reigns a great deal.
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:35 PM   #39
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He does sell a lot of merch, which ultimately is what matters anyway - the almighty $$$.

Doesn't take away from the fact that he still seems quite bland to most people over the age of 10.
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:58 PM   #40
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He does sell a lot of merch, which ultimately is what matters anyway - the almighty $$$.

Doesn't take away from the fact that he still seems quite bland to most people over the age of 10.
So you answered your own question. Reigns sells, that's why he was chosen and continues to be pushed.

This goes back to this thing where people are expecting WWE to cater to everyone individually.
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