DISCUSSION - The current WWE era and their failed strategy to "make everyone look credible."

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I'm pretty sure well all remember that. The key with the attitude era was they were forced into certain situations to put immensely talented and ready guys into certain spots which helped the company succeed. They were forced because they had competition. Now they don't. So when things get stagnant and mediocre, they can just remain as such. Yeah their is some nibbles and bites of change, but then Vince goes "Nah I'm not feeling this" and kind of goes back to status quo and we get backstage segments with fart jokes.

[Tom Guycott]

Originally Posted by The CyNick But that's not even true. A lot of people on here act like everyone went on this steady upward trajectory to the top. Nothing could be further from the truth. Hunter was at a certain level, then was pushed down, then back up, then right to top with the original DX, then kinda back down to mid card with face DX, then slowly up from there. Then as champ he was booked like a CS heel. It wasn't until his 3rd run as world champ that they really started to make him a killer, and primarily that was because Foley was a crazy person willing to do anything. Rock had an early push, then fell off the face of the earth, then up and down. Until he reached the heights he did.

Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead I'm pretty sure well all remember that. The key with the attitude era was they were forced into certain situations to put immensely talented and ready guys into certain spots which helped the company succeed. They were forced because they had competition. Now they don't. So when things get stagnant and mediocre, they can just remain as such. Yeah their is some nibbles and bites of change, but then Vince goes "Nah I'm not feeling this" and kind of goes back to status quo and we get backstage segments with fart jokes.

Exactly. It's not that there isn't a constant upward gain, it's that pretty much any momentum someone has gained in recent history has had that momentum over-calculated (Ryback, for example) or WWE hits the reset button (Cesaro).

Go back to when Zack Ryder had his massive popularity spike. Naysayers act as if he didn't deserve it or that fans instantly wanted him as WWE Champion. It is this "all or nothing" line of thinking WWE has come to adopt that has hurt guys in the long run. Instead of using his self-made internet fame as a stepping stone to more TV time, better booking, and storylines to keep fans invested, they kept him off TV, save for backstage cameos. He barely got matches, and usually when he did, he wasn't picking up the win. Eventually, this leads to fans feeling like chumps for liking the guy and not getting any payoff. Yes, he got a short US title run, but that was after he was cooling off, and it didn't help matters that they didn't keep him at that level. They dropped him back down the card where he remained until only recently, and that's on the NXT tag scene.

I legitimately feel WWE is just trying to "create" not just the next breakout superstar, but specifically, the next Rock. And I'm not meaning that in any similarities and family ties with Roman, I mean that they want to manufacture a fan favorite, bill him as a legit WHC contender, and farm him out to Hollywood while still under the WWE banner instead of him deciding to move on after having done everything in wrestling. And if nobody has that instant spark, then they aren't worth investing effort into... at least until, say Cena gets injured or Brock has an MMA fight looming and they go into panic mode. They wouldn'thave to panic if they quit losing interest and build reps credible enough to stand in.

One of my favorite matchups in recent WWE history is Dolph Ziggler and Kofi Kingston. Whenever they have a 1 on 1, they tear the goddamn house down. In all the time they've been in WWE, these two should have been headlining PPVs by now, and it would have been believable, because they could have been built to be actual title threats. Instead, they constantly tried to keep Kofi as the kid friendly high-flyer, and Dolph was (and still is) being used as a prop in stories happening to the women around him... Vicki, AJ, Summer Rae/Lana. The best setup they gave the guy was that Survivor Series win, and... they didn't do shit with it. Cesaro got a false start becoming a Real American, thenanother becoming a Heyman Guy, then another with AtG Battle Royal win... each time, he either fucked off of TV or transitioned away with haphazard akwardness. The best time for Curtis Axel to be on his way was with Heyman, and they took that opportunity to make him look like a foolish meatshield instead, then made him go away.

Again, too much "all or nothing". Nobody will ever be important if they're all pushed then completely dropped. Nor will they gain anything by simply going by "the look" before there is any character of substance for fans to attach to... and then just dismissing the people the fans are actually getting behind because they "don't see why". They have 5 hours national TV time a week (not counting The Network), they have gotten more people over more reliably back when they only had 1 hour live and a weekend syndicated pre-taping. Its baffling.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Tom Guycott Exactly. It's not that there isn't a constant upward gain, it's that pretty much any momentum someone has gained in recent history has had that momentum over-calculated (Ryback, for example) or WWE hits the reset button (Cesaro). Go back to when Zack Ryder had his massive popularity spike. Naysayers act as if he didn't deserve it or that fans instantly wanted him as WWE Champion. It is this "all or nothing" line of thinking WWE has come to adopt that has hurt guys in the long run. Instead of using his self-made internet fame as a stepping stone to more TV time, better booking, and storylines to keep fans invested, they kept him off TV, save for backstage cameos. He barely got matches, and usually when he did, he wasn't picking up the win. Eventually, this leads to fans feeling like chumps for liking the guy and not getting any payoff. Yes, he got a short US title run, but that was after he was cooling off, and it didn't help matters that they didn't keep him at that level. They dropped him back down the card where he remained until only recently, and that's on the NXT tag scene. I legitimately feel WWE is just trying to "create" not just the next breakout superstar, but specifically, the next Rock. And I'm not meaning that in any similarities and family ties with Roman, I mean that they want to manufacture a fan favorite, bill him as a legit WHC contender, and farm him out to Hollywood while still under the WWE banner instead of him deciding to move on after having done everything in wrestling. And if nobody has that instant spark, then they aren't worth investing effort into... at least until, say Cena gets injured or Brock has an MMA fight looming and they go into panic mode. They wouldn'thave to panic if they quit losing interest and build reps credible enough to stand in. One of my favorite matchups in recent WWE history is Dolph Ziggler and Kofi Kingston. Whenever they have a 1 on 1, they tear the goddamn house down. In all the time they've been in WWE, these two should have been headlining PPVs by now, and it would have been believable, because they could have been built to be actual title threats. Instead, they constantly tried to keep Kofi as the kid friendly high-flyer, and Dolph was (and still is) being used as a prop in stories happening to the women around him... Vicki, AJ, Summer Rae/Lana. The best setup they gave the guy was that Survivor Series win, and... they didn't do shit with it. Cesaro got a false start becoming a Real American, thenanother becoming a Heyman Guy, then another with AtG Battle Royal win... each time, he either fucked off of TV or transitioned away with haphazard akwardness. The best time for Curtis Axel to be on his way was with Heyman, and they took that opportunity to make him look like a foolish meatshield instead, then made him go away. Again, too much "all or nothing". Nobody will ever be important if they're all pushed then completely dropped. Nor will they gain anything by simply going by "the look" before there is any character of substance for fans to attach to... and then just dismissing the people the fans are actually getting behind because they "don't see why". They have 5 hours national TV time a week (not counting The Network), they have gotten more people over more reliably back when they only had 1 hour live and a weekend syndicated pre-taping. Its baffling.

The Ryder stuff really didn't play to his strengths. The dude has shown pretty much no growth or improvement over the past four years, but he was over and should have been presented better. I don't know how much of it was Vince and how much of it was Ryder himself, but trying to have him "act" in storylines with Kane? Dumb. But Ryder just needs to want it more, I guess.

The push abandonment of Cesaro have sincerely ruined my interest in professional wrestling. I'd also include the plateauing of Dean Ambrose. It's a similar situation with two very different talents -- they can't buy a major singles win.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Noid The Ryder stuff really didn't play to his strengths. The dude has shown pretty much no growth or improvement over the past four years, but he was over and should have been presented better. I don't know how much of it was Vince and how much of it was Ryder himself, but trying to have him "act" in storylines with Kane? Dumb. But Ryder just needs to want it more, I guess. The push abandonment of Cesaro have sincerely ruined my interest in professional wrestling. I'd also include the plateauing of Dean Ambrose. It's a similar situation with two very different talents -- they can't buy a major singles win.

Do you think Cesaro cuts a main event level promo?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by The CyNick Do you think Cesaro cuts a main event level promo?

It depends on how you define it. He's not great with scripted WWE-style monologues, but he's improved a lot with them. I think he if he were allowed to keep it short, sweet and to his own personal flavor, he could get quite good.

He actually had a mouthpiece last year. A mouthpiece that was party to the ending of The Undertaker's streak. It was a beautiful legacy to bestow upon the next generation of wrestler. But then they had to have the world-beater go and get beaten by the world.

[Damian Rey]

I cannot fathom the logic in arguing performers in a scripted sport "scratch and claw" or that guys are "missing" such a trait in an environment where their development and direction is determined by somebody else no matter their talent or desire. Makes no sense.

[#1-norm-fan]

Well maybe if Kevin Owens were talented enough to put on good matches with Cena instead of the three shitty ones he had, he'd be over! Or if Bray Wyatt could cut a halfway decent promo, he wouldn't have become a boring, directionless character! Definitely their fault. Not the brilliant writers.

I mean... these are the guys who wrote such meticulous, well thought out things as"Brie Bella has gone from Nikki's mortal enemy/slave for a month to her best friend in such a flawlessly written transition, you didn't even notice!" and "Wade Barrett is a badass bareknuckle fighter as these vignettes hyping his return will show you... SWERVE! He's a generic chicken shit heel a week later!". Probably should release those shitty guys like Owens and Wyatt and sign some guys who can shine under their brilliant light.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

the thing is, there's nothing wrong with being a mid-carder.... as long as the mid-carders are presented as a big deal. Not just "another" guy. WWE/WWF at their strongest always had an incredibly credible mid-card, with versatile guys who people would pay to see. It was all part of the act. Nowadays, there's amazing mid-card talent, but they aren't given anything that isn't generic. Nothing to stand out. They literally could have anybody placed in their feuds and it wouldn't make a difference.

If you have a strong mid card, then anybody working with anybody looks credible because everybody is over.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead the thing is, there's nothing wrong with being a mid-carder.... as long as the mid-carders are presented as a big deal. Not just "another" guy. WWE/WWF at their strongest always had an incredibly credible mid-card, with versatile guys who people would pay to see. It was all part of the act. Nowadays, there's amazing mid-card talent, but they aren't given anything that isn't generic. Nothing to stand out. They literally could have anybody placed in their feuds and it wouldn't make a difference. If you have a strong mid card, then anybody working with anybody looks credible because everybody is over.

Agreed. It really bothers me when a guy loses an IC Title match one month and then goes over and challenges for the US Title the next. There was a period recently where the challengers for the IC and US Titles literally just swapped over.

[XL]

What exactly does a guy need to do to "grab the brass ring"/"show he wants it badly enough"?

[BigCrippyZ]

Originally Posted by XL What exactly does a guy need to do to "grab the brass ring"/"show he wants it badly enough"?

This is a great question. With VERY few exceptions, EVERY segment, promo, interview and match is so scripted, planned and controlled, often by the same people working behind the scenes, who (apparently) rehash the same shitty ideas over and over again with no long term plans or direction.

[XL]

Originally Posted by BigCrippyZ This is a great question. With VERY few exceptions, EVERY segment, promo, interview and match is so scripted, planned and controlled, often by the same people working behind the scenes, who (apparently) rehash the same shitty ideas over and over again with no long term plans or direction.

You hear all the time about how guys should question and challenge more, go directly to Vince, come up with their own creative, etc. but I just can't see how any of that pays off without guys being labelled as "difficult". They talk about nobody having "passion" or "wanting it" but there are clearly guys on the roster that do.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by XL You hear all the time about how guys should question and challenge more, go directly to Vince, come up with their own creative, etc. but I just can't see how any of that pays off without guys being labelled as "difficult". They talk about nobody having "passion" or "wanting it" but there are clearly guys on the roster that do.

Do you know what Cesaro did to get in trouble most recently?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Tnere was a time where being just a CHALLENGER for the IC title meant you were a big deal.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead Tnere was a time where being just a CHALLENGER for the IC title meant you were a big deal.

That was 1985 dude

[Heyman]

Cena, Batista, Orton, and Lesnar all had some 'warts'


Cena and Batista weren't the greatest in the ring, Orton was a prima-donna with a shitty attitude, while Lesnar's mic skills were quite sub-par. Although Lesnar was a tremendous wrestler obviously, his ring psychology and the "sports entertainment" side of things, etc. needed some significant work (perhaps like Cesaro does today).


However - despite the shortcomings of the aforementioned four wrestlers, all four guys were pushed extremely hard once the WWE deemed them ready. Why?!!? Because - The Attitude Era for the WWE had ended, and the company desperately needed new stars to replace Austin and Rocky.


Hence - despite Cena, Batista, Orton, and Lesnar being kind of 'green' and having various 'warts' as performers, the WWE bit the proverbial boner and pushed them hard......and all 4 men achieved great success.


-Orton and Batista became solid main-eventers
-Cena became the Franchise of the WWE (10 years and counting)
-Lesnar became a huge star in both the wrestling world and MMA world.


Was it all rosy? Of course not. Lesnar had the world handed to him, and then decided to leave. Orton became a huge pain in the ass backstage and his pushes were cancelled often times. Batista's ego also spiralled out of control for awhile (before Booker T knocked the shit out him backstage). Anyone with pubic hair disliked Cena's character post Spring 2005.


However - I would argue that the positives of pushing Cena, Orton, Batista, and Lesnar CLEARLY outweighed the negatives.


Fast forward to today, and I think the WWE is in a similar spot to where they were in 2002/2003. The John Cena era is in its twilight, and the company needs new stars to take the "reigns" (Roman Reigns!) so to speak.


Are Roman Reigns, Bray Wyatt, Seth Rollins, and Cesaro perfect? No. All 4 wrestlers have their warts.......just as Cena, Batista, Orton, and Lesnar had their warts and shortcomings. However - I think it might be a wise strategy for the WWE to simply strap rockets to their chests and push the hell out of them.


Even though Rollins is heel - book him strong. Have him dominate his opponents with amazing speed, skill, etc. If the fans start cheering, good on them. Make Rollins look as amazing as possible. Ditto for Reigns. Have Reigns dominate everyone in site. If the fans don't like it, tough noogies. Hell - you can flip Rollins/Reigns if it gets real bad.


Wyatt and Cesaro - push them strong as well. Cesaro has paid his dues. Fans are ready to ejaculate their penises over Cesaro. Wyatt also needs to be booked strong again before fans start losing interest in his creepy promos (that almost never come to fruition).


Push
-Reigns
-Rollins
-Wyatt
-Cesaro


Strong as fuck, and make them this generation's version of Cena, Orton, Lesnar, Batista.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Heyman Cena, Batista, Orton, and Lesnar all had some 'warts' Cena and Batista weren't the greatest in the ring, Orton was a prima-donna with a shitty attitude, while Lesnar's mic skills were quite sub-par. Although Lesnar was a tremendous wrestler obviously, his ring psychology and the "sports entertainment" side of things, etc. needed some significant work (perhaps like Cesaro does today). However - despite the shortcomings of the aforementioned four wrestlers, all four guys were pushed extremely hard once the WWE deemed them ready. Why?!!? Because - The Attitude Era for the WWE had ended, and the company desperately needed new stars to replace Austin and Rocky. Hence - despite Cena, Batista, Orton, and Lesnar being kind of 'green' and having various 'warts' as performers, the WWE bit the proverbial boner and pushed them hard......and all 4 men achieved great success. -Orton and Batista became solid main-eventers -Cena became the Franchise of the WWE (10 years and counting) -Lesnar became a huge star in both the wrestling world and MMA world. Was it all rosy? Of course not. Lesnar had the world handed to him, and then decided to leave. Orton became a huge pain in the ass backstage and his pushes were cancelled often times. Batista's ego also spiralled out of control for awhile (before Booker T knocked the shit out him backstage). Anyone with pubic hair disliked Cena's character post Spring 2005. However - I would argue that the positives of pushing Cena, Orton, Batista, and Lesnar CLEARLY outweighed the negatives. Fast forward to today, and I think the WWE is in a similar spot to where they were in 2002/2003. The John Cena era is in its twilight, and the company needs new stars to take the "reigns" (Roman Reigns!) so to speak. Are Roman Reigns, Bray Wyatt, Seth Rollins, and Cesaro perfect? No. All 4 wrestlers have their warts.......just as Cena, Batista, Orton, and Lesnar had their warts and shortcomings. However - I think it might be a wise strategy for the WWE to simply strap rockets to their chests and push the hell out of them. Even though Rollins is heel - book him strong. Have him dominate his opponents with amazing speed, skill, etc. If the fans start cheering, good on them. Make Rollins look as amazing as possible. Ditto for Reigns. Have Reigns dominate everyone in site. If the fans don't like it, tough noogies. Hell - you can flip Rollins/Reigns if it gets real bad. Wyatt and Cesaro - push them strong as well. Cesaro has paid his dues. Fans are ready to ejaculate their penises over Cesaro. Wyatt also needs to be booked strong again before fans start losing interest in his creepy promos (that almost never come to fruition). Push -Reigns -Rollins -Wyatt -Cesaro Strong as fuck, and make them this generation's version of Cena, Orton, Lesnar, Batista.

Its not that easy though.

If you saw RAW you would see that Reigns is not ready to carry the ball. They could protect him with a mouthpiece, but to be a real top guy week in week out you need to be able to speak. Roman struggles. At best he should be a silent heel with a guy like Heyman.

Rollins is being pushed and I think will slowly be booked to win more matches. He beat Sting, he will beat Kane, and we'll see what's next.

Wyatt is a strange one. I enjoy the uniqueness of his promos. I love the whole presentation of his character, but I don't think he connects well with the audience when it comes to promos. He's an example of a guy who works to the hardcore fans. I think fans like holding up their cell phones for his entrance, but then they get quiet. I think he's a guy who can occasionally main event, but never be the man.

Cesaro I'm on the fence about. I've seen him improve a lot in the last year, and i would love to see him get a real one on one program to see what he does with it. He reminds me of Reigns in terms of promos, but I feel he has more natural charisma.

Theres no need to force guys into main event status. They tried to push Reigns quickly and the fans rejected it at least partially. Cena is still there and going strong. But he needs new dance partners. I think Big E has really elevated his game. I wish Xavier Woods was bigger. I think Kevin Owens is the best new guy they have. And in NXT I'm curious where Apollo Crews ends up.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by The CyNick Its not that easy though. If you saw RAW you would see that Reigns is not ready to carry the ball. They could protect him with a mouthpiece, but to be a real top guy week in week out you need to be able to speak. Roman struggles. At best he should be a silent heel with a guy like Heyman.

To be honest, I've only watched RAW about a dozen or so times over the past 5-6 years.


But again - you said it yourself - His flaws can be covered, just as Lesnar's weak promo abilities were covered by Heyman back in the day.


And like I said - why is there this notion that a wrestler has to be "almost perfect" in order to get a rocket strapped to his chest? As I pointed out, guys like Cena, Batista, Orton, and Lesnar all had some 'shortcomings' in different ways, but the WWE still pushed them once they got to a certain level..........and they pushed them HARD.


If Reigns is/was struggling and was getting booed out of the building, why not roll with it like they did with Cena? (i.e. Cena kept getting pushed despite fans over the age of 12 hating on him). Keep pushing Reigns and you could always turn him heel if reactions continue to be "loud boos."

Rollins is being pushed and I think will slowly be booked to win more matches. He beat Sting, he will beat Kane, and we'll see what's next.

In Rollins' case, have him be the opposite of Reigns (i.e. a heel that eventually gets major love/face reactions from the crowd due to him cleanly and dominantly defeating the opposition with pure skill, speed, and athleticism.

Wyatt is a strange one. I enjoy the uniqueness of his promos. I love the whole presentation of his character, but I don't think he connects well with the audience when it comes to promos. He's an example of a guy who works to the hardcore fans. I think fans like holding up their cell phones for his entrance, but then they get quiet. I think he's a guy who can occasionally main event, but never be the man. Cesaro I'm on the fence about. I've seen him improve a lot in the last year, and i would love to see him get a real one on one program to see what he does with it. He reminds me of Reigns in terms of promos, but I feel he has more natural charisma.

Everything you said is true here, but again - why is there this operating assumption that "a guy has to be almost perfect in order to receive a huge push?" Again - I point to the Cena, Orton, Lesnar, Batista comparison.

Theres no need to force guys into main event status. They tried to push Reigns quickly and the fans rejected it at least partially. Cena is still there and going strong. But he needs new dance partners. I think Big E has really elevated his game. I wish Xavier Woods was bigger. I think Kevin Owens is the best new guy they have. And in NXT I'm curious where Apollo Crews ends up.

Even though Reigns received negative reactions, the reactions were still huge. Why not roll with it? Why not slowly turn Reigns heel with those types of reactions? (while at the same time, having Reigns booked as a guy that dominates his opposition).

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Heyman To be honest, I've only watched RAW about a dozen or so times over the past 5-6 years. But again - you said it yourself - His flaws can be covered, just as Lesnar's weak promo abilities were covered by Heyman back in the day. And like I said - why is there this notion that a wrestler has to be "almost perfect" in order to get a rocket strapped to his chest? As I pointed out, guys like Cena, Batista, Orton, and Lesnar all had some 'shortcomings' in different ways, but the WWE still pushed them once they got to a certain level..........and they pushed them HARD. If Reigns is/was struggling and was getting booed out of the building, why not roll with it like they did with Cena? (i.e. Cena kept getting pushed despite fans over the age of 12 hating on him). Keep pushing Reigns and you could always turn him heel if reactions continue to be "loud boos." In Rollins' case, have him be the opposite of Reigns (i.e. a heel that eventually gets major love/face reactions from the crowd due to him cleanly and dominantly defeating the opposition with pure skill, speed, and athleticism. Everything you said is true here, but again - why is there this operating assumption that "a guy has to be almost perfect in order to receive a huge push?" Again - I point to the Cena, Orton, Lesnar, Batista comparison. Even though Reigns received negative reactions, the reactions were still huge. Why not roll with it? Why not slowly turn Reigns heel with those types of reactions? (while at the same time, having Reigns booked as a guy that dominates his opposition).

Cena never struggled cutting a promo like Reigns does. Cena eventually became hated by a small portion of the audience. But it wasnt go away heat. To me Reigns got a crazy amount of go away heat on Monday. You could put him with a manager to prevent him from talking (kinda like the role he had in The Shield), but again, thats limiting. I mean it basically means he cant be the #1 baby. Probably needs to be turned heel ASAP.

Cena is far and away better than anyone else on the roster, espcially the new wave of guys trying to move up. So lets not include him in any comparisons. If they had another Cena, that guy would be headlining with Cena. Lesnar was a freak of nature and a super athlete. Again, nobody they have now is close to him.

Orton and Batista had some warts (Batista more than Orton) and they did get big pushes, but both guys were super talented. Batista had a really unique look, and was good enough in the ring. Orton was more of the total package, but just needed experience. Again my thing is, if these guys are not ready or not good enough, why push them? You got lots of other guys who would like the shot. Keep throwing things against the wall until something sticks.

[XL]

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan Also, Ryback was everything Vince loves. They booked him as a monster, put him in the main event picture, and unlike Reigns... the crowd fucking ate it up. Everything went right. ... So naturally they started making him job to everyone including Mark Henry CLEAN at WrestleMania and then turned him heel and fed him to Cena. Genius.

That's just part of a bigger story. You'd be able to see that if you'd get your head out of Meltzer's ass!

Originally Posted by The CyNick You've been watching sports entertainment for a long time right? Do you REALLY think Sandow had the tools to headline? Or was he just a comedy guy that clicked in a comedy spot? Its like saying Santino or Zack Ryder should have been headlining because they got some pops. Hell Fandango should have been given an 18 month run with the WWE title based on some of his reactions. Be real man.

None of those guys are headline material. Is anybody even saying they are? But each of them could be more valuable to the product than they are, and that's on creative/Vince.

[XL]

To be fair, even after the initial 2 wins, Mankind ended up buried. Literally. But then, so did Taker.

[XL]

Where will Apollo Crews end up? A place called Midcard Hell; population 1,203.

[Innovator]

I think they'll strap the rocket to Crews, he's everything Vince loves

[XL]

Don't get me wrong; he's great but WWE just have such a bad track record.

[The CyNick]

When WWE gets a 5 tool player they usually hit it out of the park.

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by The CyNick When WWE gets a 5 tool player they usually hit it out of the park.

Johnny Curtis is the perfect WWE Superstar. Just sayin'.

[#1-norm-fan]

Also, Ryback was everything Vince loves. They booked him as a monster, put him in the main event picture, and unlike Reigns... the crowd fucking ate it up. Everything went right.

... So naturally they started making him job to everyone including Mark Henry CLEAN at WrestleMania and then turned him heel and fed him to Cena.

Genius.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan Also, Ryback was everything Vince loves. They booked him as a monster, put him in the main event picture, and unlike Reigns... the crowd fucking ate it up. Everything went right. ... So naturally they started making him job to everyone including Mark Henry CLEAN at WrestleMania and then turned him heel and fed him to Cena. Genius.

I never understood the appeal of Ryback. I think he was another guy who would only take you so far. Yeah fans like chanting "feed me more" but outside of that, when I hear him cut a promo, I dont think headliner. And his matches leave something to be desired. Also not sure of any backstage issues with him which could have hurt his push.

[#1-norm-fan]

Damien Sandow is pretty great all around, too. Tons of charisma. Got pretty fucking over.

... So naturally, instead of keeping him featured at some point during the 5 hours of "A show" TV they produce weekly, they quickly blew off his feud on Raw and now he's jobbing to NXT guys in dark matches.

Brilliant.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan Damien Sandow is pretty great all around, too. Tons of charisma. Got pretty fucking over. ... So naturally, instead of keeping him featured at some point during the 5 hours of "A show" TV they produce weekly, they quickly blew off his feud on Raw and now he's jobbing to NXT guys in dark matches. Brilliant.

You've been watching sports entertainment for a long time right? Do you REALLY think Sandow had the tools to headline? Or was he just a comedy guy that clicked in a comedy spot?

Its like saying Santino or Zack Ryder should have been headlining because they got some pops. Hell Fandango should have been given an 18 month run with the WWE title based on some of his reactions. Be real man.

[Innovator]

Originally Posted by The CyNick You've been watching sports entertainment for a long time right? Do you REALLY think Sandow had the tools to headline? Or was he just a comedy guy that clicked in a comedy spot? Its like saying Santino or Zack Ryder should have been headlining because they got some pops. Hell Fandango should have been given an 18 month run with the WWE title based on some of his reactions. Be real man.

Before he turned into a comedy act, Sandow definitely could've been a midcard-upper midcard player

[Emperor Smeat]

Originally Posted by Innovator Before he turned into a comedy act, Sandow definitely could've been a midcard-upper midcard player

Could have been by now had the WWE not squandered his MitB run by doing the typical push killing because they sudden lost interest and rather be focused on Cena again.

[Evil Vito]

Originally Posted by The CyNick You've been watching sports entertainment for a long time right? Do you REALLY think Sandow had the tools to headline? Or was he just a comedy guy that clicked in a comedy spot? Its like saying Santino or Zack Ryder should have been headlining because they got some pops. Hell Fandango should have been given an 18 month run with the WWE title based on some of his reactions. Be real man.

Oh shit, CyNick just talked down about Fandango to #1-wwf-fan. I think the seeds might be planted for our matchup for Real TPWW Fights #2.

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by Vito Cruz Oh shit, CyNick just talked down about Fandango to #1-wwf-fan. I think the seeds might be planted for our matchup for Real TPWW Fights #2.

Oh, I assumed that part of what he said was actually genuine.

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by The CyNick You've been watching sports entertainment for a long time right? Do you REALLY think Sandow had the tools to headline? Or was he just a comedy guy that clicked in a comedy spot? Its like saying Santino or Zack Ryder should have been headlining because they got some pops. Hell Fandango should have been given an 18 month run with the WWE title based on some of his reactions. Be real man.

Jesus Christ, between the inability to grasp that there's a huge middle ground between headlining and jobbing in dark matches and the "But losing to Cena isn't a bad thing" argument...

You either have the comprehension of a 3 year old or you're blatantly ignoring things so you can argue shit no one else is saying in order to feel right about something. Which is it?

[Damian Rey]

Ryback is like the example. He should be a much bigger deal.

Johnny Curtis should be a star by now.

[Heisenberg]

There should be chemistry experiments going on backstage and guys paired up based on how organic they are together.

WWE doesn't Science enough brah.

They should take anyone that the crowd loves(Cesaro atm, modern day DB) and pit him against someone that they want(Rollins, Cena) and boom they have a main event that everyone can stomach.

Sandow could have been in that equation, but now he has to come back possibly in a new gimmick and start all over.



I'm speaking for my demographic, 18-34 aged gentlemen, but the current Roman Reigns/Wyatt Family stuff is old and predictable. Sure, they can put on matches like no other, but w/o a good reason for them to fight it's pointless.

The Cesaro and Rollins/Cena feud is served on a silver platter. The Fans v.s. WWE. Cesaro doesn't have to do much, just let the fans do the work. He just has to point at his sections and go out there every once in awhile and make fart jokes during vignettes.

Preaching to the choir though

[Big Vic]

They should have done SOMETHING with Sandow after his Mizdow run.... like anything.

[Big Vic]

I think he lost the MITB case because They wanted to combine the belts and thought "shit we gotta get rid of this briefcase soon."

[Emperor Smeat]

Originally Posted by Big Vic I think he lost the MITB case because They wanted to combine the belts and thought "shit we gotta get rid of this briefcase soon."

Yeah that played a big role. As well as the WWE suddenly wanting another Cena-Orton feud when the crowds were against that idea.

Him losing the case wasn't horrible in general, just the way it was done and how he got treated afterwards. Don't think he ever wanted revenge or anything but just took the loss and then did nothing of importance till the Mizdow gimmick.