DISCUSSION - The current WWE era and their failed strategy to "make everyone look credible."

[Tom Guycott]

Originally Posted by The CyNick But that's not even true. A lot of people on here act like everyone went on this steady upward trajectory to the top. Nothing could be further from the truth. Hunter was at a certain level, then was pushed down, then back up, then right to top with the original DX, then kinda back down to mid card with face DX, then slowly up from there. Then as champ he was booked like a CS heel. It wasn't until his 3rd run as world champ that they really started to make him a killer, and primarily that was because Foley was a crazy person willing to do anything. Rock had an early push, then fell off the face of the earth, then up and down. Until he reached the heights he did.

Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead I'm pretty sure well all remember that. The key with the attitude era was they were forced into certain situations to put immensely talented and ready guys into certain spots which helped the company succeed. They were forced because they had competition. Now they don't. So when things get stagnant and mediocre, they can just remain as such. Yeah their is some nibbles and bites of change, but then Vince goes "Nah I'm not feeling this" and kind of goes back to status quo and we get backstage segments with fart jokes.

Exactly. It's not that there isn't a constant upward gain, it's that pretty much any momentum someone has gained in recent history has had that momentum over-calculated (Ryback, for example) or WWE hits the reset button (Cesaro).

Go back to when Zack Ryder had his massive popularity spike. Naysayers act as if he didn't deserve it or that fans instantly wanted him as WWE Champion. It is this "all or nothing" line of thinking WWE has come to adopt that has hurt guys in the long run. Instead of using his self-made internet fame as a stepping stone to more TV time, better booking, and storylines to keep fans invested, they kept him off TV, save for backstage cameos. He barely got matches, and usually when he did, he wasn't picking up the win. Eventually, this leads to fans feeling like chumps for liking the guy and not getting any payoff. Yes, he got a short US title run, but that was after he was cooling off, and it didn't help matters that they didn't keep him at that level. They dropped him back down the card where he remained until only recently, and that's on the NXT tag scene.

I legitimately feel WWE is just trying to "create" not just the next breakout superstar, but specifically, the next Rock. And I'm not meaning that in any similarities and family ties with Roman, I mean that they want to manufacture a fan favorite, bill him as a legit WHC contender, and farm him out to Hollywood while still under the WWE banner instead of him deciding to move on after having done everything in wrestling. And if nobody has that instant spark, then they aren't worth investing effort into... at least until, say Cena gets injured or Brock has an MMA fight looming and they go into panic mode. They wouldn'thave to panic if they quit losing interest and build reps credible enough to stand in.

One of my favorite matchups in recent WWE history is Dolph Ziggler and Kofi Kingston. Whenever they have a 1 on 1, they tear the goddamn house down. In all the time they've been in WWE, these two should have been headlining PPVs by now, and it would have been believable, because they could have been built to be actual title threats. Instead, they constantly tried to keep Kofi as the kid friendly high-flyer, and Dolph was (and still is) being used as a prop in stories happening to the women around him... Vicki, AJ, Summer Rae/Lana. The best setup they gave the guy was that Survivor Series win, and... they didn't do shit with it. Cesaro got a false start becoming a Real American, thenanother becoming a Heyman Guy, then another with AtG Battle Royal win... each time, he either fucked off of TV or transitioned away with haphazard akwardness. The best time for Curtis Axel to be on his way was with Heyman, and they took that opportunity to make him look like a foolish meatshield instead, then made him go away.

Again, too much "all or nothing". Nobody will ever be important if they're all pushed then completely dropped. Nor will they gain anything by simply going by "the look" before there is any character of substance for fans to attach to... and then just dismissing the people the fans are actually getting behind because they "don't see why". They have 5 hours national TV time a week (not counting The Network), they have gotten more people over more reliably back when they only had 1 hour live and a weekend syndicated pre-taping. Its baffling.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Tom Guycott Exactly. It's not that there isn't a constant upward gain, it's that pretty much any momentum someone has gained in recent history has had that momentum over-calculated (Ryback, for example) or WWE hits the reset button (Cesaro). Go back to when Zack Ryder had his massive popularity spike. Naysayers act as if he didn't deserve it or that fans instantly wanted him as WWE Champion. It is this "all or nothing" line of thinking WWE has come to adopt that has hurt guys in the long run. Instead of using his self-made internet fame as a stepping stone to more TV time, better booking, and storylines to keep fans invested, they kept him off TV, save for backstage cameos. He barely got matches, and usually when he did, he wasn't picking up the win. Eventually, this leads to fans feeling like chumps for liking the guy and not getting any payoff. Yes, he got a short US title run, but that was after he was cooling off, and it didn't help matters that they didn't keep him at that level. They dropped him back down the card where he remained until only recently, and that's on the NXT tag scene. I legitimately feel WWE is just trying to "create" not just the next breakout superstar, but specifically, the next Rock. And I'm not meaning that in any similarities and family ties with Roman, I mean that they want to manufacture a fan favorite, bill him as a legit WHC contender, and farm him out to Hollywood while still under the WWE banner instead of him deciding to move on after having done everything in wrestling. And if nobody has that instant spark, then they aren't worth investing effort into... at least until, say Cena gets injured or Brock has an MMA fight looming and they go into panic mode. They wouldn'thave to panic if they quit losing interest and build reps credible enough to stand in. One of my favorite matchups in recent WWE history is Dolph Ziggler and Kofi Kingston. Whenever they have a 1 on 1, they tear the goddamn house down. In all the time they've been in WWE, these two should have been headlining PPVs by now, and it would have been believable, because they could have been built to be actual title threats. Instead, they constantly tried to keep Kofi as the kid friendly high-flyer, and Dolph was (and still is) being used as a prop in stories happening to the women around him... Vicki, AJ, Summer Rae/Lana. The best setup they gave the guy was that Survivor Series win, and... they didn't do shit with it. Cesaro got a false start becoming a Real American, thenanother becoming a Heyman Guy, then another with AtG Battle Royal win... each time, he either fucked off of TV or transitioned away with haphazard akwardness. The best time for Curtis Axel to be on his way was with Heyman, and they took that opportunity to make him look like a foolish meatshield instead, then made him go away. Again, too much "all or nothing". Nobody will ever be important if they're all pushed then completely dropped. Nor will they gain anything by simply going by "the look" before there is any character of substance for fans to attach to... and then just dismissing the people the fans are actually getting behind because they "don't see why". They have 5 hours national TV time a week (not counting The Network), they have gotten more people over more reliably back when they only had 1 hour live and a weekend syndicated pre-taping. Its baffling.

The Ryder stuff really didn't play to his strengths. The dude has shown pretty much no growth or improvement over the past four years, but he was over and should have been presented better. I don't know how much of it was Vince and how much of it was Ryder himself, but trying to have him "act" in storylines with Kane? Dumb. But Ryder just needs to want it more, I guess.

The push abandonment of Cesaro have sincerely ruined my interest in professional wrestling. I'd also include the plateauing of Dean Ambrose. It's a similar situation with two very different talents -- they can't buy a major singles win.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Noid The Ryder stuff really didn't play to his strengths. The dude has shown pretty much no growth or improvement over the past four years, but he was over and should have been presented better. I don't know how much of it was Vince and how much of it was Ryder himself, but trying to have him "act" in storylines with Kane? Dumb. But Ryder just needs to want it more, I guess. The push abandonment of Cesaro have sincerely ruined my interest in professional wrestling. I'd also include the plateauing of Dean Ambrose. It's a similar situation with two very different talents -- they can't buy a major singles win.

Do you think Cesaro cuts a main event level promo?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by The CyNick Do you think Cesaro cuts a main event level promo?

It depends on how you define it. He's not great with scripted WWE-style monologues, but he's improved a lot with them. I think he if he were allowed to keep it short, sweet and to his own personal flavor, he could get quite good.

He actually had a mouthpiece last year. A mouthpiece that was party to the ending of The Undertaker's streak. It was a beautiful legacy to bestow upon the next generation of wrestler. But then they had to have the world-beater go and get beaten by the world.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Noid It depends on how you define it. He's not great with scripted WWE-style monologues, but he's improved a lot with them. I think he if he were allowed to keep it short, sweet and to his own personal flavor, he could get quite good. He actually had a mouthpiece last year. A mouthpiece that was party to the ending of The Undertaker's streak. It was a beautiful legacy to bestow upon the next generation of wrestler. But then they had to have the world-beater go and get beaten by the world.

Yeah but then thats limiting. For better or worse, to headline, almost every guy needs to be able to carry a promo. You can make exceptions for guys with certain gimmicks, but the reality is you need to develop the skill to hang.

It was okay to put Heyman with Cesaro while Lesnar was off, but it lessens Heyman's impact if he has a stable of guys. And as babyface, I dont think a manager makes sense.