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Old 10-21-2015, 02:36 PM   #1
The CyNick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hb2k View Post
That number is horrific. No way to spin it. Not only are those stars not going to be there again, but the existing bigger draws, Cena and Orton, are going to be off Raw for a couple of months apiece by the look of it, ditto Lesnar, and the NFL is only going to get tougher as competition with Cowboys/Redskins, Bengals/Broncos and Patriots/Bills on the horizon for Monday night games which will all do big numbers.

It really is amazing how different this era is. Numbers like this would have seen Rollins drop that belt so fucking fast in years past.
Do you think it's healthy to go back to an era where the championship changes hands every 4-6 weeks?

Numbers are down in a time period when competition for eyeballs is at its highest. That said, RAW was still watched by more people than anything that isn't football. That's impressive no matter how you try to spin it.

Viewership is likely to continue to decline as more and more people more from consuming entertainment through television to other outlets. It's not luke USA has a ton of other shows pulling those massive numbers like RAW does 52 weeks of the year.
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Old 10-21-2015, 02:43 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Do you think it's healthy to go back to an era where the championship changes hands every 4-6 weeks?
I don't think he is suggesting that.
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Old 10-21-2015, 03:15 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
I don't think he is suggesting that.
I'll let him speak for himself, but he's suggesting a knee jerk reaction to a few ratings during football season.

Doesn't sound like long term planning
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Old 10-21-2015, 05:02 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I'll let him speak for himself, but he's suggesting a knee jerk reaction to a few ratings during football season.

Doesn't sound like long term planning
He wasn't suggesting anything.
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Old 10-22-2015, 12:56 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I'll let him speak for himself, but he's suggesting a knee jerk reaction to a few ratings during football season.

Doesn't sound like long term planning
Not suggesting a knee jerk reaction at all, more just a musing about how drastically the business has changed. At a different time, questions would be asked, changes would be suggested, and they'd look in the mirror and ask what was wrong and go all-in on a different approach. Some hit, some missed. Now, a rating this bad is depressing, but the show will continue to be boring and they won't change the pat hand despite the numbers telling them something very clearly.

Not suggesting the world needs title changes every 4 to 6 weeks or anything, but that line about long term planning is the key - even if they do have a long term plan, you can't tell by watching, the product feels directionless. There is very little to be excited about, and the audience is slowly eroding in response.

Brass tacks, there is no way to convince anybody that the worst Raw rating in 18 years in a good thing. That's all.
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Old 10-22-2015, 04:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hb2k View Post
Not suggesting a knee jerk reaction at all, more just a musing about how drastically the business has changed. At a different time, questions would be asked, changes would be suggested, and they'd look in the mirror and ask what was wrong and go all-in on a different approach. Some hit, some missed. Now, a rating this bad is depressing, but the show will continue to be boring and they won't change the pat hand despite the numbers telling them something very clearly.

Not suggesting the world needs title changes every 4 to 6 weeks or anything, but that line about long term planning is the key - even if they do have a long term plan, you can't tell by watching, the product feels directionless. There is very little to be excited about, and the audience is slowly eroding in response.

Brass tacks, there is no way to convince anybody that the worst Raw rating in 18 years in a good thing. That's all.
Rollins singles push started after 30. He won the title at 31. He's been champ since then. Sounds long term to me.

Lesnar-Taker has been a long term program (30 to now)

HHH v Rock had seeds planted at 31. Rumor is it culminates at 32. If not Rollins-HHH has been simmering and is clearly a direction eventually.

The whole US challenge has been a long term storyline that I think will start a new (day) chapter on Sunday.

Rrigns-Wyatt was a long term program

There's a difference between not liking the current programs and saying they have no direction.
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Old 10-22-2015, 06:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Rollins singles push started after 30. He won the title at 31. He's been champ since then. Sounds long term to me.

Lesnar-Taker has been a long term program (30 to now)

HHH v Rock had seeds planted at 31. Rumor is it culminates at 32. If not Rollins-HHH has been simmering and is clearly a direction eventually.

The whole US challenge has been a long term storyline that I think will start a new (day) chapter on Sunday.

Reigns-Wyatt was a long term program

There's a difference between not liking the current programs and saying they have no direction.
Well that's completely missed the point of what I said.

I didn't once say they didn't have long term plans. At all. To the audience, even if they do, they clearly aren't hooked by the directions they've been going, because the numbers say so. That's it, the crux of my point in a nutshell.

Reigns/Wyatt has been ice cold for the vast majority of its run. Taker/Lesnar 3 has been promoted poorly considering the interest after the Summerslam finish. Rollins/HHH might be going somewhere eventually but they're doing such a balls up job with Rollins that people aren't itching for something to happen on that front by any means. You have no hot top heels and no babyface that feels on the cusp of a breakthrough, and for all the directions they've taken, they've bred a malaise in the audience that has resulted in the numbers falling to the lowest in 18 years. If you feel differently, I'm happy you're enjoying Raw.

I love wrestling and will watch it forever, but the television show is flat, and I'm not suggested they get crazy reactionary, I'm just saying that doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results is a well known definition, and it isn't of genius.
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Old 10-22-2015, 06:43 PM   #8
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The problem becomes if they do get reactionary do you have confidence in the choices they will make?

I agree with cynick that there are programs that have time invested for better or worse.

I also agree there is a grave amount of staleness to most of the programs and what bothers me is im not seeing anyone pushing to breakthrough
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Old 10-22-2015, 08:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hb2k View Post
Well that's completely missed the point of what I said.

I didn't once say they didn't have long term plans. At all. To the audience, even if they do, they clearly aren't hooked by the directions they've been going, because the numbers say so. That's it, the crux of my point in a nutshell.

Reigns/Wyatt has been ice cold for the vast majority of its run. Taker/Lesnar 3 has been promoted poorly considering the interest after the Summerslam finish. Rollins/HHH might be going somewhere eventually but they're doing such a balls up job with Rollins that people aren't itching for something to happen on that front by any means. You have no hot top heels and no babyface that feels on the cusp of a breakthrough, and for all the directions they've taken, they've bred a malaise in the audience that has resulted in the numbers falling to the lowest in 18 years. If you feel differently, I'm happy you're enjoying Raw.

I love wrestling and will watch it forever, but the television show is flat, and I'm not suggested they get crazy reactionary, I'm just saying that doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results is a well known definition, and it isn't of genius.
You said they seem directionless

I am disputing that. I think your issue is that you dont care for the direction they are going. I think one of the problems is that WWE is on the cutting edge of technology, and their fans connect with them in ways beyond your father's cable TV. They are often first is a wide variety of social media outlets. If they were not connecting, those numbers would be low as well.

Specific programs are going to a matter of personal opinion. I'll give my take on some of the programs:

Taker vs Brock - If you go back to the angle they shot leading into Summerslam, that was one of the best angle WWE has done, maybe ever. The crowd was into it big time. I feel they have done a masterful job, of almost building their matches in a UFC style manner. Not the normal weekly face to face promos, just constantly reminding fans about the reasons why these guys want to fight each other. The program is a little hampered by the fact that Taker is limited, but if you just look at the marketing of the match, I think its been masterful.

Wyatt-Reigns. Almost the direct opposite of Taker-Brock. This is your classic modern day feud like a HHH-Rock or Cena-Orton, where it feels like they have fought 250 times over 4 months. I still the crowd gets behind them enough to justify the length of the program, especially. Reigns doing long promos is not smart, but that has nothing to do with this program specifically. From a long term planning perspective, I feel like this program was meant to keep Reigns away from the WWE Title picture and still keep him hot. In the meantime, for better or worse they put over a new talent in Strowman. We'll get the old school cage blowoff on Sunday.

HHH-Rollins. I think I'm one of the only people who can see the forest for the trees when it comes to this. All the way back to the booking of Sting-HHH, I think this program has been slowly simmering. When they do pull the trigger, and I dont think it will be anytime soon, it will be good stuff. Rollins using the Pedigree is a cool touch. Rollins beating Sting on his own. Rollins slowly starting to take matters into his own hands and win matches on his own. Its the right way to build a guy you expect to be a futue babyface headliner.

For me, I just dont expect wrestling writing to be as good as something like The Sopranos or Breaking Bad. Its simplistic. Its something to turn on once or twice a week, have some laughs, and move on. There are some guys I would like to see pushed a little more, but you can only push so many guys to the top at once. Right now its Rollins and Reigns turn. We'll see how they work out. Someone else will get the chance next year. When that starts to happen, I'l enjoy watching that journey play out.
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Old 10-21-2015, 05:10 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
I don't think he is suggesting that.
Are you implying CyNick may be coming up with a strawman in order to ignore shit that is damning to his point? Or maybe that he's just bad at very basic comprehension? Or maybe he's just doing obvious things like this to be a troll? Naaaaah.
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:55 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Are you implying CyNick may be coming up with a strawman in order to ignore shit that is damning to his point? Or maybe that he's just bad at very basic comprehension? Or maybe he's just doing obvious things like this to be a troll? Naaaaah.
Is being the 2nd most watched thing on cable on Monday a terrible thing?
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Old 10-22-2015, 08:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Is being the 2nd most watched thing on cable on Monday a terrible thing?
5th

MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL ESPN 8:15 PM 13.901 5.2
SPORTSCENTER: L ESPN 11:39 PM 3.542 1.5
LOVE & HIP HOP HLLYWD 2 VH1 8:00 PM 2.753 1.4
BLACK INK CREW 3 VH1 9:00 PM 2.530 1.3
WWE ENTERTAINMENT USA 8:00 PM 3.600 1.2
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Old 10-22-2015, 04:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
5th

MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL ESPN 8:15 PM 13.901 5.2
SPORTSCENTER: L ESPN 11:39 PM 3.542 1.5
LOVE & HIP HOP HLLYWD 2 VH1 8:00 PM 2.753 1.4
BLACK INK CREW 3 VH1 9:00 PM 2.530 1.3
WWE ENTERTAINMENT USA 8:00 PM 3.600 1.2
Viewership:
13.9>3.6>3.5>2.8>2 5
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