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Old 11-09-2015, 03:33 AM   #1
hb2k
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Jump The Shark Moments
So for this weeks podcast, we are going to be talking about classic "Jump The Shark" moments in wrestling history, and as always, we want your nominations for ones in your own wrestling viewing experience.

The question of course, is what moment was the straw that broke the camel's back that made you either stop watching a certain promotion, stop watching in general for a period of time, or that turned friends of yours off the world of wrestling, and why? Feel free to elaborate.

As always, the best contributions will be read on the show and you'll be credited accordingly. So what moment stands out for you as when a wrestling company jumped the shark?

EDIT - The show discussing Jump The Shark Moments in wrestling history, and your nominations, is now online and available to listen to at the following link: http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean....arkMoments.mp3




Crazy Like A Fox - The Definitive Chronicle of Brian Pillman 20 Years Later
**Featuring interviews with members of the Pillman family, Dave Meltzer, Kim Wood, Raven, Jim Cornette, Mark Madden, Shane Douglas, Mark Coleman, Alex Marvez, Les Thatcher and many more close friends and colleagues**
Available on Amazon now:
http://amzn.to/2h93SxL
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Old 11-09-2015, 07:06 AM   #2
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When John Tenta literally became The Shark in WCW. He even changed that tattoo on his arm to a shark thinking that gimmick would go places. In hindsight, they should really have called him the Manatee.
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Old 11-09-2015, 07:09 AM   #3
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Why don't you try and jump John Tenta, mmm?
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:11 AM   #4
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Rollins constantly losing to Cena and WWE putting Brock in a match with Big Show at MSG instead of anyone else.
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:12 AM   #5
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The Sting v Hogan Starcade match, particularly the finish. A whole year of Sting not speaking or wresting, finally gets in the ring, for the world title, loses clean. Then Bret Hart comes out for no reason, and inexplicably restarts the match, with Sting suddenly finding his wind and beating Hogan.

It was such a clusterfuck of a finish and poorly booked match that I officially gave up on WCW.
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:35 AM   #6
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When every bitch and their brother was nWo. I was a guy who flipped stations during the monday night wars. Then, this got really overdone, and I'd stick with raw and catch/tape the nitro rerun.

When every hardcore match, WWF or WCW, degenerated into "Let us just throw a bunch of bullshit into the ring for no reason/only use one or two of those things, and fight outside the ring for awhile". You could get the "anything goes" vibe across without the stereotypical dumbness of what people *think* a hardcore match was. Became a piss break for me in either promotion.

Fake Razor and Fake Diesel. Might hage worked if they were masked wrestlers and didn't have to promo ever. But this wasn't the case, and just fucking stupid. Stopped watching WWF for a bit on that note.
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:38 AM   #7
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Cena wins.

I am completely uninterested in any Cena match because he most likely wins. When he lost to Owens it was great but you knew he'd win the next two.
Bray wyatt vs Cena was a very interesting fued until lol Cena wins.

Over the years it's been the same thing. He only loses to icons like Rock or Lesnar even though he beats them half the time.

I get it, he is the top draw but he buries everybody. It's not like HHH burying everyone becuase he was a heal and the chase was what made it exciting. It's not like Hogan burying everyone because it's every week.

So to me Cena jumped the shark becuase lol Cena wins.
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:44 AM   #8
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Saying Cena buries people shows a lack of understanding.

Mae Young giving birth. Took a fun angle (the absurd idea of mark henry and mae young having an affair) and make it cringeworthy TV.
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
When every hardcore match, WWF or WCW, degenerated into "Let us just throw a bunch of bullshit into the ring for no reason/only use one or two of those things, and fight outside the ring for awhile". You could get the "anything goes" vibe across without the stereotypical dumbness of what people *think* a hardcore match was. Became a piss break for me in either promotion.
The hardcore division was one of my favorite things about the Attitude Era, but then again I was a kid at that time and matches like that appealed to me.

As I've gotten older I've realized it was mostly terrible. And while the 24/7 rule allowed for some fun and unique backstage skits, it's impossible to watch any old WWF show from when that rule was effect and actually care about the Hardcore Title match. You knew it would always just devolve into a million run ins and the original champ would most likely end up with the belt after 5 title changes.
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:50 AM   #10
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Saying Cena buries people shows a lack of understanding.
People are tired of Cena winning.
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:53 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
Cena wins.

I am completely uninterested in any Cena match because he most likely wins. When he lost to Owens it was great but you knew he'd win the next two.
Bray wyatt vs Cena was a very interesting fued until lol Cena wins.

Over the years it's been the same thing. He only loses to icons like Rock or Lesnar even though he beats them half the time.

I get it, he is the top draw but he buries everybody. It's not like HHH burying everyone becuase he was a heal and the chase was what made it exciting. It's not like Hogan burying everyone because it's every week.

So to me Cena jumped the shark becuase lol Cena wins.


Also, let us not forget that he was killed by The Nexus on the floor, then got up at 9 to beat a 10 count, and proceeded to Superman them all to "overcome the odds". That was a bit much, even for Cena.
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Cruz View Post
The hardcore division was one of my favorite things about the Attitude Era, but then again I was a kid at that time and matches like that appealed to me.

As I've gotten older I've realized it was mostly terrible. And while the 24/7 rule allowed for some fun and unique backstage skits, it's impossible to watch any old WWF show from when that rule was effect and actually care about the Hardcore Title match. You knew it would always just devolve into a million run ins and the original champ would most likely end up with the belt after 5 title changes.
It started as a noble concept, and was something different. The problem ended up being that that's what everyone "thought" hardcore wrestling epitomized was just aping New Jack's gimmick. It is akin to the whole idea that thinking wrestling fans on the internet today are the small circle of "basement dwelling virgins" from 1995, and not, say, everyone who likes wrestling and has a smartphone in their pocket.
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Old 11-09-2015, 10:08 AM   #13
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I feel like the Nexus was the biggest "Jumping the Shark" moment for me in recent history. My interest in general just dropped like a stone by the time that whole debacle of a storyline had finished.

They took one of the most unique, hottest angles they've ever done and then just whiffed on the execution. Most people point to SummerSlam as the point that the angle lost all credibility (and by most accounts - including Cena himself, the Nexus should have gone over). But even in spite of that they still had numerous opportunities to salvage the storyline and botched it on each occasion.

There is no reason whatsoever that Wade Barrett vs. John Cena in a Title vs. Career match could not have ended up being the main event of WrestleMania 27. The outcome may be obvious as all hell, but who cares? It would have been the logical ending after months of a well-built story where Cena has had to act against his will serving Nexus for months. AND if they were dead set on doing Rock/Cena at WM28, you can still quite easily plant those seeds the next night on Raw.

But at least in this scenario you'd have wound up with Barrett as a legitimate, credible main eventer. Instead not a single member of Nexus got anywhere as a result of being in the group, which means it was a fucking waste.
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Old 11-09-2015, 10:33 AM   #14
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Quote:
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Also, let us not forget that he was killed by The Nexus on the floor, then got up at 9 to beat a 10 count, and proceeded to Superman them all to "overcome the odds". That was a bit much, even for Cena.

I was like wtf at that moment
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Old 11-09-2015, 11:13 AM   #15
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People are tired of Cena winning.
Totally understand that point of view.

Saying he buries people shows a lack of understanding of the business.
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Old 11-09-2015, 11:25 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Cruz View Post
I feel like the Nexus was the biggest "Jumping the Shark" moment for me in recent history. My interest in general just dropped like a stone by the time that whole debacle of a storyline had finished.

They took one of the most unique, hottest angles they've ever done and then just whiffed on the execution. Most people point to SummerSlam as the point that the angle lost all credibility (and by most accounts - including Cena himself, the Nexus should have gone over). But even in spite of that they still had numerous opportunities to salvage the storyline and botched it on each occasion.

There is no reason whatsoever that Wade Barrett vs. John Cena in a Title vs. Career match could not have ended up being the main event of WrestleMania 27. The outcome may be obvious as all hell, but who cares? It would have been the logical ending after months of a well-built story where Cena has had to act against his will serving Nexus for months. AND if they were dead set on doing Rock/Cena at WM28, you can still quite easily plant those seeds the next night on Raw.

But at least in this scenario you'd have wound up with Barrett as a legitimate, credible main eventer. Instead not a single member of Nexus got anywhere as a result of being in the group, which means it was a fucking waste.
I think the mistake they made with that angle was targeting Cena. None of those guys were ready to headline, but they were thrusted in a main event angle because it was against Cena. I think it would have been more effective as an upper mid card angle and let the guys develop from there.

If you compare that to The Shield, which was essentially the same idea (a group of brand new guys), you can see how The Shield was slowly elevated to the main event and it was far more effective. Plus Nexus was such a cluster with like 8 guys or whatever. Nobody could really stand out. Should have been a 4 or 5 person group from jump.

That said, many of those Nexus guys are still around. So in the long run, they were not hurt by what happened with Cena.

The idea that Barrett was ready to take the ball with Cena at WM27 is utterly absurd. The guy isn't even ready to headline NOW and its 5 years later.
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Old 11-09-2015, 11:30 AM   #17
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How about Bray Wyatt? Far and away one of the creative and interesting characters they've brought up in ages. Completely stands out, cuts excellent promos. Good group built around him.

2013-2014 looked like it could be his year. Defeated Kane in his debut. Took on Daniel Bryan and beat him clean. Went over Reigns in the Shield v Wyatts match, then entered an interesting feud with Cena, only t lose that feud and ever midcard hell since.

He entered a useless feud with Jericho, who hasn't beaten anyone in of note in ages, feuds with Ambrose, who was already going nowhere after being used to elevate Rollins, got fed in an at the time one off with Taker, after carrying the entire build on his own, beat Ryback, which meant nothing, started a feud with Ambrose and Reigns again, only to be used as a feeder system to build Reigns back up. Maybe he's salvaged with the reviewed Undertaker program, but to this point, Bray not being the top heel in the company is ridiculous. He went from being one of, arguably their hottest act, to being a midcard jobber to the stars who loses every big match he's in.

Cena at Mania-lost
Taker at Mania lost
Reigns and Ambrose at Summer Slam-lost
Reigns at HITC lost
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Old 11-09-2015, 11:55 AM   #18
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Funny how having two Mania programs as a heel against Cena and Taker is somehow seen as a burial.
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Old 11-09-2015, 12:28 PM   #19
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Might as well, Wyatt should be the #1 heel by now. He should have gone over Cena and Taker. Now they are trying to make him relevant by taking Taker and Kanes souls when he should have taken Kanes when he debuted and Takers at Mania after he beat him.
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Old 11-09-2015, 12:29 PM   #20
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When I discovered the IWC and it made me hate wrestling lol
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Old 11-09-2015, 12:40 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Might as well, Wyatt should be the #1 heel by now. He should have gone over Cena and Taker. Now they are trying to make him relevant by taking Taker and Kanes souls when he should have taken Kanes when he debuted and Takers at Mania after he beat him.
So now he's what? The #2 heel? Oh the horror.

Nobody looks at the idea of keeping Bray Wyatt relevant for 15 years instead of 15 months.
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Old 11-09-2015, 12:40 PM   #22
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Except me
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Old 11-09-2015, 12:41 PM   #23
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When I discovered the IWC and it made me hate wrestling lol
Stay off of it and let me know if you enjoy sports entertainment more. I bet you will!
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Old 11-09-2015, 01:03 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
So now he's what? The #2 heel? Oh the horror.

Nobody looks at the idea of keeping Bray Wyatt relevant for 15 years instead of 15 months.
Seriously, if he was being wedged in the top heel spot the cries of "blowing their load with Wyatt!" and "forcing him down our throats! would be deafwning. Wyatt is being slowly tempered in the midcard, and NOT winning all of these feuds will add to his value in the long run. He isn't losing any credibility at all. Want proof? As many losses as he's had, he does one bit with Taker and suddenly the buzz is "TAKER VS WYATT AT SURVIVOR SERIES WHO WILL BE ON TAKER'S TEAM OMG THIS IS AWESOME."
You know who hardly ever got high level wins, let alone clear-cut feud wins? Jakes Roberts. That didn't diminish him at all. (Certain things did but a run of bad Mania matches and feud losses weren't it.)
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Old 11-09-2015, 01:05 PM   #25
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So now he's what? The #2 heel? Oh the horror.

Nobody looks at the idea of keeping Bray Wyatt relevant for 15 years instead of 15 months.
#2 is a stretch if you ask me. They have presented weak and one of his own stable mates is presented stronger. And as far as being relavant if it wasnt for his promo work he wouldnt even be that.
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Old 11-09-2015, 01:09 PM   #26
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Exactly. And he doesn't lose to random guys. He loses the blowoff against guys like Cena and Reigns along with a one off against Taker. I don't think some people understand that's what a good heel does.

At some point Wyatt will have a babyface run. If he's plowed through everyone as a heel, what's the point of doing it again as a face?

I said this once or twice before, but if you read a lot of the stuff on here, nobody in the top half of the card should ever lose a feud. Except Cena. He should lose all of them.
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Old 11-09-2015, 01:11 PM   #27
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#2 is a stretch if you ask me. They have presented weak and one of his own stable mates is presented stronger. And as far as being relavant if it wasnt for his promo work he wouldnt even be that.
He just came off a high profile program with Reigns and now is married to Taker. If he's not number 2 who is? Actually, you're right #2 is a stretch because Rollins is out. He's #1 now.
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Old 11-09-2015, 01:12 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Theo Dious View Post
Seriously, if he was being wedged in the top heel spot the cries of "blowing their load with Wyatt!" and "forcing him down our throats! would be deafwning. Wyatt is being slowly tempered in the midcard, and NOT winning all of these feuds will add to his value in the long run. He isn't losing any credibility at all. Want proof? As many losses as he's had, he does one bit with Taker and suddenly the buzz is "TAKER VS WYATT AT SURVIVOR SERIES WHO WILL BE ON TAKER'S TEAM OMG THIS IS AWESOME."
You know who hardly ever got high level wins, let alone clear-cut feud wins? Jakes Roberts. That didn't diminish him at all. (Certain things did but a run of bad Mania matches and feud losses weren't it.)
Jake also has one of the better winning percentages in history. Wyatt jobs on a regular basis.
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Old 11-09-2015, 01:13 PM   #29
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He just came off a high profile program with Reigns and now is married to Taker. If he's not number 2 who is? Actually, you're right #2 is a stretch because Rollins is out. He's #1 now.
Should have went over Reigns.
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Old 11-09-2015, 01:35 PM   #30
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Jake also has one of the better winning percentages in history. Wyatt jobs on a regular basis.
Apples and oranges

Everyone had a good winning record on TV because of enhancement matches.

Wyatt to me doesn't lose a ton....waits for the guy who keeps tracks of wins and losses to chime in.
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Old 11-09-2015, 01:37 PM   #31
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This just seems like "bookings you didn't agree with" rather than "jump the shark moments"

Mae Young giving birth to a hand, Hornswoggle running through a "tunnel" painted on a wall like a looney toons character, the Eugene character, Robocop helping Sting etc all seem like they would be legit responses to this thread. Embarrassing, cringeworthy moments that are usually tried to be passed as comedy.
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Old 11-09-2015, 01:37 PM   #32
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Should have went over Reigns.
So then people could say Reigns was screwed over by jobbing to Wyatt right before winning the championship. Result would have been this post by someone luke Noid

Reigns: BURIED
WWE Championship: BURIED
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Old 11-09-2015, 01:37 PM   #33
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This just seems like "bookings you didn't agree with" rather than "jump the shark moments"

Mae Young giving birth to a hand, Hornswoggle running through a "tunnel" painted on a wall like a looney toons character, the Eugene character, Robocop helping Sting etc all seem like they would be legit responses to this thread. Embarrassing, cringeworthy moments that are usually tried to be passed as comedy.
Wins the thread
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Old 11-09-2015, 02:04 PM   #34
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The idea that Barrett was ready to take the ball with Cena at WM27 is utterly absurd. The guy isn't even ready to headline NOW and its 5 years later.
Oh bullshit. The man could cut a promo like nobody's business from the second he walked into a WWE ring. And in the ring, he was quite good. WWE wouldn't have been throwing him in main events against Cena and Orton for much of fall 2010 if they didn't think he could handle the spot. If WWE wanted to have the big Cena/Barrett blowoff at WrestleMania 27, it could have easily been done and would have been believable. And of course he doesn't seem like he can headline now...because they've given him precisely nothing to work with in that time.

His body betrayed him with injuries on a few occasions but beyond that they've never treated him as anything less than a midcarder. They stuck the KOTR gimmick on him and then immediately had him doing clean jobs to everybody.

But anyway...I don't think there was any way to have Nexus come in and go on a tear WITHOUT getting Cena involved. Why would Cena just sit back and allow a group to come in and destroy Raw without him intervening? The problem I feel was just rushing things too quickly. Once he got "fired" after Survivor Series he was back in a freaking week and single-handedly killed every member of the group in less than a month. And really once he got "fired" they booked themselves into a corner because they were never going to willingly keep him off TV, so they had no choice but to wrap things up quickly.

Instead had they just had Cena bite the bullet and unwittingly help Barrett win the belt over Orton at Survivor Series, they could have put the seeds in motion for the eventual WM 27 match and allowed the angle to work itself out naturally over the coming months. Cena would keep doing Nexus' bidding to the point where his friends (other faces) continually question his integrity, but Cena never goes full heel because you know his job is on the line and that he really has no choice.

Then at the Rumble he can have his proper "screw this Nexus bullshit" moment, and turn on his brethren during the Rumble match itself. Cena wins the thing and Barrett can no longer fire him since the Rumble winner is contractually guaranteed a title match at Mania. Hell during the time between the Rumble and Mania you can end up having Cena destroy the Nexus one by one like Orton wound up doing in the build to his Punk match. At least then it's not rushed and building to a big moment. And then of course Cena gets the win, Barrett is dethroned, and you go from there.

You really think people wouldn't have preferred a long-term, well-built program like that to Cena vs. Miz, which featured Miz being a complete afterthought in the whole build despite being the fucking CHAMPION? I loved the Miz at that time and even I thought that build was completely rotten, and a big part of the reason WM27 was completely forgettable.

Oh and as for the whole "they're still employed so Cena didn't hurt them" bit, that's not the point. It's not that many of them were hurt by being part of Nexus...it's that absolutely any of them could have been debuted at a later date in the gimmicks they're in now and be in the same exact spot. Nobody looks at any of them and says "oh yeah, that guy was a part of the Nexus" because the Nexus angle was a complete flop.
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Old 11-09-2015, 02:16 PM   #35
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Little People's Court was atrocious as well.
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Old 11-09-2015, 02:18 PM   #36
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Totally forgot about Nexus, probably because lol Cena wins.
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Old 11-09-2015, 02:20 PM   #37
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Vince being the higher power and Vince being hornswoggles dad wereprime examples of Vince's character jumping the shark.
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Old 11-09-2015, 02:25 PM   #38
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Feel like during the Attiitude Era 98% of the time a parent or somebody would come into my room while I was watching wrestling, it would ALWAYS be something raunchy.

I'll never forget my dad trying to do a nice thing and taking me to a house show in early 1999. And he was then mortified by seeing his 10 year old kid participating in "We Want Head!" chants. I thought everybody was just chanting it because we wanted to see Al Snow hit his opponent with the mannequin.
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Old 11-09-2015, 02:39 PM   #39
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Oh bullshit. The man could cut a promo like nobody's business from the second he walked into a WWE ring. And in the ring, he was quite good. WWE wouldn't have been throwing him in main events against Cena and Orton for much of fall 2010 if they didn't think he could handle the spot. If WWE wanted to have the big Cena/Barrett blowoff at WrestleMania 27, it could have easily been done and would have been believable. And of course he doesn't seem like he can headline now...because they've given him precisely nothing to work with in that time.

His body betrayed him with injuries on a few occasions but beyond that they've never treated him as anything less than a midcarder. They stuck the KOTR gimmick on him and then immediately had him doing clean jobs to everybody.

But anyway...I don't think there was any way to have Nexus come in and go on a tear WITHOUT getting Cena involved. Why would Cena just sit back and allow a group to come in and destroy Raw without him intervening? The problem I feel was just rushing things too quickly. Once he got "fired" after Survivor Series he was back in a freaking week and single-handedly killed every member of the group in less than a month. And really once he got "fired" they booked themselves into a corner because they were never going to willingly keep him off TV, so they had no choice but to wrap things up quickly.

Instead had they just had Cena bite the bullet and unwittingly help Barrett win the belt over Orton at Survivor Series, they could have put the seeds in motion for the eventual WM 27 match and allowed the angle to work itself out naturally over the coming months. Cena would keep doing Nexus' bidding to the point where his friends (other faces) continually question his integrity, but Cena never goes full heel because you know his job is on the line and that he really has no choice.

Then at the Rumble he can have his proper "screw this Nexus bullshit" moment, and turn on his brethren during the Rumble match itself. Cena wins the thing and Barrett can no longer fire him since the Rumble winner is contractually guaranteed a title match at Mania. Hell during the time between the Rumble and Mania you can end up having Cena destroy the Nexus one by one like Orton wound up doing in the build to his Punk match. At least then it's not rushed and building to a big moment. And then of course Cena gets the win, Barrett is dethroned, and you go from there.

You really think people wouldn't have preferred a long-term, well-built program like that to Cena vs. Miz, which featured Miz being a complete afterthought in the whole build despite being the fucking CHAMPION? I loved the Miz at that time and even I thought that build was completely rotten, and a big part of the reason WM27 was completely forgettable.

Oh and as for the whole "they're still employed so Cena didn't hurt them" bit, that's not the point. It's not that many of them were hurt by being part of Nexus...it's that absolutely any of them could have been debuted at a later date in the gimmicks they're in now and be in the same exact spot. Nobody looks at any of them and says "oh yeah, that guy was a part of the Nexus" because the Nexus angle was a complete flop.
I like the way you laid out the storyline, and I agree the booking painted them in a corner when they fired Cena. The fact is you can't have Cena off TV for extended periods of time, so once they pulled that trigger, Cena had to win. But yeah they could have timed things better.

For me watching as a fan, not someone who is biased towards Barrett, I never felt like he clicked as a top guy. There was something missing in his promos and his work. He always felt like a guy who was being shoved down our throats way before he was ready. It wasn't good enough to be a headliner at Mania. Miz was far superior, even though that angle between Cena and Miz ended up being terrible. However, it was always just meant to be a backdrop to kickoff Cena-Rock, which was obviously wildly successful.

Going back to Barrett. Imagine if Seth Rollins was pushed to main event Mania 6 months after he debuted. He would have failed because he wasn't ready. Barrett did what he could, but it wasn't enough. It's a lot to ask a guy to headline Mania that quickly. A select few could do it, Barrett wasn't one of them. I say this about a number of guys, but even today, watch his work. He's not ready to headline. He belongs exactly where he is.
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Old 11-09-2015, 02:41 PM   #40
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The idea that Barrett was ready to take the ball with Cena at WM27 is utterly absurd. The guy isn't even ready to headline NOW and its 5 years later.
And Reigns is? Barrett could have headlined Mania 27, won and be a top star right now but he's been up and down the card since then.
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