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Old 12-10-2015, 05:14 PM   #441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
My Grandfather is over 90 years old. We don't have the same interests. My wife is nearly 10 years younger than me, she likes a lot of things I don't care for. My buddy has a 6 year old, who is into completely different things.

When you have a fanbase as diverse and widespread as WWE, it's unlikely everyone will like the same things. Of course it's great if Roman can get over with everyone. But I would be happy if they were able to replace Cena with him as the hero to the kids, because I think that audience is more important to success. If that means you have to alienate the adults to get him over with the kids, i'm all for that.
You literally said the words "I would go out of my way to make Reigns unappealing to adults".

Not "I would try to make the character appealing to kids (which is REALLY fucking easy) but also actually make him a compelling character that adults can get behind if possible."

But "I would go out of my way to make Reigns unappealing to adults"

Kids will like whatever big superhero babyface they're told to like. It's not fucking rocket science making a wrestler with the right look appeal to kids. And if you actually make the character compelling so that adults can enjoy him too, it's not gonna alienate the kids. Of course that takes decent writing which, as I've explained in-depth in posts that you've dodged, is not WWE's strong suit.

Intentionally making a guy unappealing to a large demographic is not only incredibly easy in this case, it's asinine. You said you WANT a specific demographic turned off of the main portion of your product. Not that you'd just accept it as an unfortunate side effect. You'd GO OUT OF YOUR WAY to make it happen. At the very least I hope you can look back and consider that as part of the .1%, Mr "On point 99.9% of the time". lol
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Old 12-10-2015, 05:19 PM   #442
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Also, send Shadrick a pic.
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Old 12-10-2015, 05:22 PM   #443
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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Also, send Shadrick a pic.
he keeps ignoring me. much like he ignores wwe logic that goes against his agenda.
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Old 12-10-2015, 07:56 PM   #444
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As much as Cynick is full of shit everyone in here is wrong. Reigns is appealing to a good portion of the audience. But a large chunk of fans dislike him so much they leave early. These fans do not even stick around to tell him he sucks. That is pretty sad.

It will be really hard to find a wrestler everyone can get behind with the type of storytelling that goes on.
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Old 12-10-2015, 08:06 PM   #445
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Old 12-10-2015, 08:20 PM   #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
We're back to this false narrative that Vince likes to lose money.
I've been saying it for years about smarks; one moment they believe that Vince cares about nothing but money, he's Scrooge McDuck and nothing is more important to him than his next dollar. The next moment his ego is everything and he'd spend his entire fortune on a good boner. Make up your fucking minds, people.
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Old 12-10-2015, 09:23 PM   #447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
You literally said the words "I would go out of my way to make Reigns unappealing to adults".

Not "I would try to make the character appealing to kids (which is REALLY fucking easy) but also actually make him a compelling character that adults can get behind if possible."

But "I would go out of my way to make Reigns unappealing to adults"

Kids will like whatever big superhero babyface they're told to like. It's not fucking rocket science making a wrestler with the right look appeal to kids. And if you actually make the character compelling so that adults can enjoy him too, it's not gonna alienate the kids. Of course that takes decent writing which, as I've explained in-depth in posts that you've dodged, is not WWE's strong suit.

Intentionally making a guy unappealing to a large demographic is not only incredibly easy in this case, it's asinine. You said you WANT a specific demographic turned off of the main portion of your product. Not that you'd just accept it as an unfortunate side effect. You'd GO OUT OF YOUR WAY to make it happen. At the very least I hope you can look back and consider that as part of the .1%, Mr "On point 99.9% of the time". lol
When I said adults, I meant the people who chant "Cena Sucks". Not literally every person over the age of 18.

Sorry if that wasnt clear.
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Old 12-10-2015, 11:47 PM   #448
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Yeah, words and their definitions are important. Apology accepted. Take an English class and come back, SON!
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Old 12-10-2015, 11:48 PM   #449
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But seriously, that definition of "adult" changes nothing. At all. You're still literally saying WWE should go out of their way to alienate a certain demographic and that's still REALLY fucking dumb.
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Old 12-10-2015, 11:50 PM   #450
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When you can't find a way to make Johnny fucking Curtis a star, you're just hopeless. Seriously. The guy has everything. EVERYTHING.
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Old 12-11-2015, 12:16 AM   #451
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He was a star then he got a concussion. Momentum dead.
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:30 AM   #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
But seriously, that definition of "adult" changes nothing. At all. You're still literally saying WWE should go out of their way to alienate a certain demographic and that's still REALLY fucking dumb.
I disagree. My thinking is don't try to fight the lifelong fans who like to pay for shows month after month, boo the current top guy, and cheer for the new indy hero that had been signed, and do the Fandango dance, and then blog to the guy banging Mick Foley's daughter that everything sucks.
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:44 AM   #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
My thinking is don't try to fight the lifelong fans...
There's a difference between "not fighting" and "going out of your way"....
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Old 12-11-2015, 12:13 PM   #454
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Exactly. Actually putting forth effort to make a character appeal to as many demographics as possible draws in fans. Going out of your way to not do that is fucking dumb. I feel like I'm repeating myself but this point is clearly not getting through.

Like I said when that quote was first made, I'm pretty sure that was CyNick setting the wheels in motion so that whenever WWE fails to produce a face of the company who is universally loved he can say "It's not that they're bad at writing a character that appeals to grown men and women who actually need depth and a story to be entertained. They're INTENTIONALLY making the character unappealing. It's genius. You guys don't get it."
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Old 12-11-2015, 12:27 PM   #455
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Old 12-11-2015, 08:15 PM   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
There's a difference between "not fighting" and "going out of your way"....
Yeah I guess. I just mean I would keep have Reigns cut cheesy promos like Cena does. It wouldnt bother me if that group of the audience rejects him. Obviously its best to have everyone like him, but I dont think thats possible today.
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Old 12-11-2015, 08:16 PM   #457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Exactly. Actually putting forth effort to make a character appeal to as many demographics as possible draws in fans. Going out of your way to not do that is fucking dumb. I feel like I'm repeating myself but this point is clearly not getting through.

Like I said when that quote was first made, I'm pretty sure that was CyNick setting the wheels in motion so that whenever WWE fails to produce a face of the company who is universally loved he can say "It's not that they're bad at writing a character that appeals to grown men and women who actually need depth and a story to be entertained. They're INTENTIONALLY making the character unappealing. It's genius. You guys don't get it."
I would say its harder now to create a universally liked star than anytime in history. The fans who dont like Reigns I believe will reject anyone who they feel the company is behind.

You have to trick those people into thinking they created the star, like Daniel Bryan.
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Old 12-11-2015, 08:25 PM   #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I would say its harder now to create a universally liked star than anytime in history. The fans who dont like Reigns I believe will reject anyone who they feel the company is behind.
Or they're grown adults who enjoy more depth in a TV character than 9 year old kids will settle for. But let's pretend the only people who Roman Reigns doesn't appeal to are marks. That must be why more and more casual fans are swarming to the product on a weekly basis, right? Because Reigns is so appealing to them.
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Old 12-11-2015, 08:30 PM   #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Yeah I guess. I just mean I would keep have Reigns cut cheesy promos like Cena does. It wouldnt bother me if that group of the audience rejects him. Obviously its best to have everyone like him, but I dont think thats possible today.
why have roman cut cena promos when it clearly isn't him? did cena get over emulating a predecessor's style? did stone cold? did the rock? did hulk hogan? these guys brought their own unique personality to the table, and that played a huge part in them connecting with the audience. why not allow reigns the same chance instead of forcing him to fill shoes he doesn't have the tools to fill?
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Old 12-11-2015, 08:34 PM   #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I would say its harder now to create a universally liked star than anytime in history. The fans who dont like Reigns I believe will reject anyone who they feel the company is behind.

You have to trick those people into thinking they created the star, like Daniel Bryan.
Let's ignore your first sentence because nothing in the history of anything has ever been universally liked.

If the obvious manufactured "stars" are failing then why would you not actually get behind those guys that get over organically? There's a long list of guys WWE could actually push and wouldn't have a backlash over, not even just at the top of the card. Why actively try to cool somebody off by removing them from TV or having them job every week or bury them beyond repair when you can use that positive reaction to improve your overall product top to bottom? They very reluctantly went with Bryan last minute after Punk quit and HHH had nothing to do at Mania, then again went all the way with him when the crowds shit all over Bryan vs HHH being the end game of that years TV while the lukewarm Orton took on a rusty manufactured babyface in Batista. If you want to believe that it was all genius anti booking then fine, but Bryan himself has stated he was going to face Sheamus and ignoring that just makes your counterpoint pure fanaticism.

Kids are the easiest to sell to because they are kids, they haven't fully formed ideas on who has a better workrate or who cuts the best promo or who is the most entertaining, they'll accept whoever is at the top of the card as evidenced by the woeful Roman Reigns selling a lot of merch just because he's being made to look STRONG and constantly telling them "Hey everyone, Roman Reigns is a good wrestler!".
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Old 12-11-2015, 08:39 PM   #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Yeah I guess. I just mean I would keep have Reigns cut cheesy promos like Cena does. It wouldnt bother me if that group of the audience rejects him. Obviously its best to have everyone like him, but I dont think thats possible today.
Its possible and simple but WWE creative is to dumb to figure it out.
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Old 12-11-2015, 09:59 PM   #462
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why have roman cut cena promos when it clearly isn't him? did cena get over emulating a predecessor's style? did stone cold? did the rock? did hulk hogan? these guys brought their own unique personality to the table, and that played a huge part in them connecting with the audience. why not allow reigns the same chance instead of forcing him to fill shoes he doesn't have the tools to fill?
Yeup, biggest mistake the WWE is doing is trying to force Reigns into a Cena 2.0 mold when barely nothing about it made him popular with the fans to begin with.

Reigns biggest weakness, promos, is the same area that is the strongest in the Hogan and Cena style which is why he's struggling a lot to win crowds over. He'd probably be better off using the Goldberg and Austin style that focused more on action and use it as the inspiration for his own mega star style.

Not the first time the WWE has tried to force a big star into a previous mold and saw very little success in the end. Same happened with trying to make Backland into the next Sammartino and New Generation HBK into the next Hogan. Even Diesel failed trying to be a Big Man version of Hogan.
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:52 PM   #463
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Lindsay was wonderful as Fandango's dance partner.
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Old 12-12-2015, 04:28 PM   #464
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Its possible and simple but WWE creative is to dumb to figure it out.
Yeah you're totally right. That's why there are 10 other wrestling promotions who have stars who are bigger than anyone in WWE. Pretty simple.
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Old 12-12-2015, 07:16 PM   #465
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What do other promotions have to do with anything? Your changing the subject but I am right. Booking Roman isn't hard, but WWE is taking the easy way out and just booking him like Cena. They are actually booking to Romans weaknesses instead of the strengths and that's why people are turning away from him.
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Old 12-21-2015, 04:45 PM   #466
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Yeah he looked pretty cold at TLC and on RAW.

Terrible job by wwe building him up
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Old 12-21-2015, 05:12 PM   #467
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Yeah he looked pretty cold at TLC and on RAW.

Terrible job by wwe building him up
You think you might have missed just a little bit of time there, slugger? How about you start closer to where the shit hit the fan, like, let's say Royal Rumble (2015). Take us through let's say Survivor Series.

Please explain to all us plebes how forcing a guy like Reigns on the fans starting at Royal Rumble 2015 and not booking him like they have been in the past week and a half or two weeks was such ingenious booking.
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Old 12-21-2015, 05:14 PM   #468
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I thought it sucked. He attacks HHH for no reason and then goes way to far with Vince to the point where if he's not fired its stupid. Dudes just not ready for the main event. Give him 4 or 5 years and maybe he'll be ready then but I'm just not feeling him right now, everything he says just sounds phony.
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Old 12-21-2015, 05:25 PM   #469
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LOL, and you just gotta love how CyNick conveniently "left" after my post.

Could it be because he has no good response?
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Old 12-23-2015, 01:20 PM   #470
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You think you might have missed just a little bit of time there, slugger? How about you start closer to where the shit hit the fan, like, let's say Royal Rumble (2015). Take us through let's say Survivor Series.

Please explain to all us plebes how forcing a guy like Reigns on the fans starting at Royal Rumble 2015 and not booking him like they have been in the past week and a half or two weeks was such ingenious booking.
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LOL, and you just gotta love how CyNick conveniently "left" after my post.

Could it be because he has no good response?
CyNick, would you please address my question?
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Old 12-23-2015, 02:00 PM   #471
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Wasn't there a "we want Cena" chant at tlc? I'm pretty sure the live feed had a fairly stoic crowd. Wasn't till after the match and the next night that the reactions started to change. Which is nice and all, but it doesn't change the last year worth of awfulness they've produced with Reigns at the center.
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Old 12-23-2015, 02:01 PM   #472
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You think you might have missed just a little bit of time there, slugger? How about you start closer to where the shit hit the fan, like, let's say Royal Rumble (2015). Take us through let's say Survivor Series.

Please explain to all us plebes how forcing a guy like Reigns on the fans starting at Royal Rumble 2015 and not booking him like they have been in the past week and a half or two weeks was such ingenious booking.
I don't think he was forced. I think Rumble 15 was an unfortunate set of circumstances and mis step in booking. Reigns was hot in The Shield, and was a logical choice to push. Unfortunately they had Daniel Bryan (injury prone star) who the fans still wanted to see win the Rumble. Credit to WWE for getting him that over. They figured okay if Reigns beats Bryan then people will accept Roman add the new up and coming top face. Crowd didn't go for that so it made Reigns the bad guy to that element of the fanbase.

You still had Rollins out there as the face of The Authority and he had MITB. So whether it was at Mania or shortly thereafter, Rollins was the long term plan as champ. Likely with Reigns chasing to get the title back.

I think they looked at where Reigns was in terms of being over as the up and coming top babyface prior to Mania and decided to pump the breaks but still protect him. So to me the Reigns push was reset post Mania. They purposely kept him out of the storylines with Rollins. They did the build to MITB, which smoothly transitioned to the long program with The Wyatt Family. That was key to make Roman look strong in the ring to set up the showdown with Rollins. I think it was successful given the reactions to the match with Bray at HIAC. Then things got kinda messed up with Rollins getting hurt. But I felt like they really turned the heat up on him by having become the focal point going into Survivor Series and TLC. I felt like they did a good job showing his progression from being Joe Cool to Serious Bad Ass when he had enough of getting screwed by HHH.

To me it was a very well executed slow burn from Mania onwards to get him where he's the most over guy on TV right now.
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Old 12-23-2015, 02:03 PM   #473
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LOL, and you just gotta love how CyNick conveniently "left" after my post.

Could it be because he has no good response?
Sorry bud, I have to earn a living every now and then. Don't be so needy. I'll get to ya.
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Old 12-23-2015, 04:04 PM   #474
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To me it was a very well executed slow burn from Mania onwards to get him where he's the most over guy on TV right now.
Reigns is not the most over guy on TV right now. Ambrose and Ryback are way more over than he is.
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Old 12-23-2015, 04:37 PM   #475
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Ambrose is arguably the most universally over talent on the roster.
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Old 12-23-2015, 04:46 PM   #476
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Reigns is not the most over guy on TV right now. Ambrose and Ryback are way more over than he is.
Xavier Wood's Trombone is more over than Reigns.
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Old 12-23-2015, 06:26 PM   #477
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cynick how old are u
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Old 12-23-2015, 06:34 PM   #478
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Ambrose is the face of the company. WWE just doesn't acknowledge that because if they did it would seem like they support him and then everyone would start disliking him.

BECAUSE STUFF AND THINGS.
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Old 12-23-2015, 07:51 PM   #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I don't think he was forced. I think Rumble 15 was an unfortunate set of circumstances and mis step in booking. Reigns was hot in The Shield, and was a logical choice to push. Unfortunately they had Daniel Bryan (injury prone star) who the fans still wanted to see win the Rumble. Credit to WWE for getting him that over. They figured okay if Reigns beats Bryan then people will accept Roman add the new up and coming top face. Crowd didn't go for that so it made Reigns the bad guy to that element of the fanbase.

You still had Rollins out there as the face of The Authority and he had MITB. So whether it was at Mania or shortly thereafter, Rollins was the long term plan as champ. Likely with Reigns chasing to get the title back.

I think they looked at where Reigns was in terms of being over as the up and coming top babyface prior to Mania and decided to pump the breaks but still protect him. So to me the Reigns push was reset post Mania. They purposely kept him out of the storylines with Rollins. They did the build to MITB, which smoothly transitioned to the long program with The Wyatt Family. That was key to make Roman look strong in the ring to set up the showdown with Rollins. I think it was successful given the reactions to the match with Bray at HIAC. Then things got kinda messed up with Rollins getting hurt. But I felt like they really turned the heat up on him by having become the focal point going into Survivor Series and TLC. I felt like they did a good job showing his progression from being Joe Cool to Serious Bad Ass when he had enough of getting screwed by HHH.

To me it was a very well executed slow burn from Mania onwards to get him where he's the most over guy on TV right now.
Ambrose is still more over after not doing shit for months. Ryback was more over until he was forgotten about. The list goes on. Next would be Ziggler.
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Old 12-23-2015, 07:57 PM   #480
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Hell Sheamus is so over as a heel with his look, Roman Reigns is over because of Sheamus. If Reigns was working with anyone else he wouldn't even be as over as he is now.
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