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Old 12-26-2015, 11:34 PM   #441
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Big fan of the movie. I'm sure there are a bajillion reasons not to like it but I was too busy enjoying it.
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Old 12-27-2015, 03:17 AM   #442
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Took a cousin of mine that had never seen any of the movies and he really enjoyed it.
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Old 12-27-2015, 03:54 AM   #443
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Finally seen this. Long story short I liked it. Been bouncing around catching on discussions and criticisms and debates and speculations. While it's still fresh in my head here's my run-down, as well as replies/co-signs to stuff from this thread. I wanna remind again, that I like this movie.

- Yeah, this plot is almost carbon copy of A New Hope. Heroes coming together by chance, super-weapon, references to past legendary battles (though it's cute and that we are now totally in the know of these past battles. We're old guys; the original trilogy is today's Clone Wars), myths of past Jedi, even the planning stage scene complete with holo power points. This is almost a remake of A New Hope. This skews things for me in regard to people talking how much this feels like a Star Wars film. I'm sure what people mean is 'tone', less robotic dialogue of the prequels and more 'hell of a ride' scenes. However, I would challenge that it had very little choice but to feel like Star Wars since the movie kind of... cheats a bit by recycling so many beats from the most beloved era and most beloved movie. Was it too much biting? I give slack for it being the kick-off of a new trilogy and it works as kind of a reintroduction to the brand. It does put a question in mind: Can a new Star Wars movie feel like a Star Wars movie without recycling almost exact plot beats from other Star Wars movies?

- This is an aesthetic issue for me, and one I understand if people don't really mind: Why are X-Wings and TIE Fighters still in use? This era is as far removed from the Death Star era as that was from the Clone Wars. The mechanic designs of the Clone Wars were obviously echoing the curvy 60's tech in comparison to the then modern Death Star era. And yet, going from that to what we can assume is 'present time', they are still using X-Wings and TIE Fighters. Cars today do not look like cars from 30-40yrs ago. This was the logic in Clone Wars era vehicle design. This gets me because the lack of attempt in updating the war machines shows me the downside of Abrams' obvious adoration for the original trilogy. This combined with the plot issue gives me almost the exact same 'I like it but...' feeling I had with Superman Returns.

I'm afraid nostalgia may have hindered this movie's potential.

- Although I found it hilarious in a way; seeing a Storm Trooper mourn the death of another was kind of a game changer for me. I would like a Storm Trooper movie now. Just those fuckers living in a universe working for insane people, surrounded by super heroes and villains. Make the Chrome chick the big bad or whatever. Speaking of her...

- "Ohhh look at the chrome trooper. Holy shit it's a woman. This is who's playing her. Let's interview her. So much mystery. She looks badass. Definitely the new Boba. Abrams is saying very little, can't wait to see her..."

Scene 1: "Report to the principals office, trooper." "Yes, ma'am."
Scene 2: "I'M THE BOSS NOW." "You again? Dammit."
Scene 3: "You're making a big mistake." "throw her in the trash."

I get really annoyed when Abrams pulls shit like this. You go out of your way to put her in the best trooper armor ever, talk her up, then blow her off without any hint as to why she's even captain of anything. No fight scene or anything. Fuck, you could have gave her the Vibra-Tongfa duel with Finn - THAT would have had narrative payoff and elevated her threat level. Maybe in the next one she'll turn out to be Mandalorian or something, but big let down on Phasma.

- "How did you get Luke's lightsaber?" "Tell you later. lol"

You don't get to do shit like this, Abrams. If you want your 'Oracle' sans cookies, I get that. In fact it's quite inspired. I like her. But it really felt like you needed to get that thing in the heroes hands with minimal fuss. And given other reveals, it might just be, "Hey can you hold this for me?"

- Finn is my fave character of the movie. The most relatable, and very funny. Making this clear because I'm gonna tear into 'Reyny Sue' in a bit.

- Han Solo. Yeah his end was telegraphed and I think they should have Walking Dead his ass with out of nowhere stab from lil Ben. Again, I can only imagine it was that drawn out because Abrams wanted to give Solo a dramatic send off, but it was at the cost of shock factor. Kylo should have came out of nowhere and shanked him. Sure keep the face touch thing, but I would have kicked the audience in the balls with that one. Great to see Solo being Solo, though.

- General Leia (not Jedi Knight/Master Leia? I guess). I can't help but want to know more about whatever kind of break up she had with Han. Whatever went down with Luke and Kylo split them up, and I'm very interested in knowing that story. Also; why is she a resistance fighter? More on this new conflict >>

- So it's La Resistance vs The First Order? How in the holy shit did the good guys wind up as under dogs again, after literally blowing up the Empire? What kind of politics in the last 30yrs didn't set up all manner of laws and militaries to keep anything like the Clone Wars and Death Star Wars from happening again? This for me is a huge gaff that may actually have an interesting answer, but it makes the Republic look inept to allow The First Order to reassemble remnants of the Empire the way it did. Even if they stationed on the Outer Rim territories. This is a head scratcher for me.

- I'm gonna let the medieval hack and slash choreography of the big duel slide on the count that a) Finn rightfully has no clue what he's doing, b) Kylo is a poor tempered rageaholic and c) for the first time in Star Wars nobody actually has a direct line to a seasoned duelist. It makes sense that these are kids with swords just kind of hurting other.

But I am a huge fan of the Nick Gillard choreographed saber duels of the prequel era. Now that Rey presumably found a master, perhaps duels will get good again going forward.

Now let's talk about Rey after a quick snack.

Last edited by Kalyx triaD; 12-27-2015 at 04:20 AM.
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Old 12-27-2015, 06:21 AM   #444
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The resistance is affiliated with the new republic. It was formed as sort of a special ops unit to combat the First Order who have been slowly growing in power but is not yet seen as a major threat. Leia decides to lead this effort as it seems several rebellion leaders did as well. Lukes absense has also led to a growth in their power.

Phasma will be back for more. This movie smartly didn't kill off any villains.

The tie fighters and x wing fighters have been gone through some changes. Why would the technology change? It rarely ever changed in these types of films. If you want change they built a bigger better Deathstar. Star Wars has been using the same tech for thousands of years.

The lightsaber duels in the prequels were all emotionless eye porn with Anakin Obi-wan being the biggest offender. They literally stand there for 30 seconds just twirling their lightsabers. It's complete nonsense.
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Old 12-27-2015, 06:59 AM   #445
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The lightsaber fights were 100x better in this than in the prequels with their backflips
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Old 12-27-2015, 07:02 AM   #446
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The lightsaber fights were 100x better in this than in the prequels with their backflips
agreed
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Old 12-27-2015, 10:13 AM   #447
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So you guys think this film will stand the test of time like the originals have or is it just a flavor the month right now that will be forgotten by the mainstream and hated by the majority of Star Wars fans in fifteen years?
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Old 12-27-2015, 11:58 AM   #448
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Old 12-27-2015, 01:48 PM   #449
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Phasma might as well have been dead after she got merked and then completely surrendered and got literally thrown in the bin. Was she confirmed still alive?
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Old 12-27-2015, 02:10 PM   #450
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Yes she is. She is confirmed for episode 8.
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Old 12-27-2015, 02:32 PM   #451
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Wasn't Han Solo also? How did she escape? I will admit missing something as the fighter attack on the base is when I zoned out on both viewings.
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Old 12-27-2015, 02:35 PM   #452
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That I don't know. It was not explained how she survived.
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Old 12-27-2015, 02:59 PM   #453
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Well its kind of hinted. They put her in a trash compactor and we already know ow that turns out. I'm sure she was able to escape the trash and leave the base knowing it was going to be blown up.
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Old 12-27-2015, 03:13 PM   #454
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She's clearly the new Boba Fett then.
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Old 12-27-2015, 03:17 PM   #455
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having post star wars depression. There's no where to go from here



.... until the next one. Kind of perplexed Abrams isn't doing the next one.
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Old 12-27-2015, 03:23 PM   #456
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No one man should have all that power
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Old 12-27-2015, 03:46 PM   #457
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That snack turned into some other shit. Anyway, now I talk about Rey. I'm going to approach her from two perspectives - as a Star Wars fan and as a writer. And before any of that I wanna point out that a) I have bias toward Action Girl archetypes so I might be easier on her than I should be, b) I personally think everybody's hatred of Mary Sue/Gary Stu characters are overblown and 'preppy'. Whenever people fuss about Mary Sues it's often because the character doesn't get beat up enough or whatever. They call Superman a Gary Stu, when he totally isn't. Batman, however, is a Gary Stu but nobody really levies that against him as much as Superman. So people kind of misuse the term and even used correctly, I personally don't see the big deal. But in this very case; Rey is the fucking goddess of Mary Sues. Io9 made a whole article saying otherwise but they protests too much (I'll cover that later). So let's get on Rey.

Earlier I mentioned that Finn was my fave character and how he was relatable. He wasn't a hotshot pilot, certainly was in over his head a lot of the times, and pretty much reacted how we would if thrown in a crazy situation like this. Then we meet Rey, who I assumed would be the other audience surrogate. Rough girl who beats off some bandits before Finn even needs to save her. I get it. I liked her. But her relatability pretty much went downhill as the movie went on and she morphed into Star Wars first actual Mary Sue, written as if a fanfic character (which is how you can spot such character types).

By the middle of the movie we see Rey have literally a talent for dealing with every possible situation thrown at her. She's a techy by default, but also a pilot (who schools HAN SOLO on fixing his own craft), a 'hacker' or whatever counts for that in the Star Wars universe, a martial artist by default, a marksman on her literal first try, not only Force sensitive but especially strong with the Force - for reasons we can only speculate over - humbling Kylo and using a Jedi mind persuasion just to experiment. She also gets a handle on telekinesis, enough to best Kylo in a lil tug of war, and naturally applies her combat prowess to the lightsaber to defeat somebody only a few degrees away from Sith Lord. For comparison; both Luke and Anakin lost their first major lightsaber duel. In ways that left them scarred for life, too. Rey scars Kylo.

Not even Luke Skywalker, in any of his three movies, had so many tools and luck at his disposal. Luke Skywalker could be captured. Luke Skywalker could be rescued. Luke Skywalker could be killed. Rey was never in a defeated position for very long. Not once. Correct me if I'm wrong. Never rescued, never defeated, never humbled, absolutely nothing she needed to learn as a character to survive this movie.

When Kylo thru a tantrum after seeing her escape, that was justified. He knew then he was dealing with an OP character.

So she's almost textbook definition Mary Sue, but as I said I don't really mind so much. Every once and a while we have author/director appeal characters, and they're all guilty of it at least once. Also, she's pretty hot. Furthermore, I'm legit intrigued as to what her deal is. Personally I'm leaning toward her being the daughter of Mara Jade, but mostly because I want her in the movies. We need to know why she was chosen, and I kinda agree on the possibility that she could be Kylo's sister. That would be another cheap callback to the older movies but perhaps... cousins? I can live with cousins.

So yeah, I like Rey. She's certainly a Mary Sue, but I like her.
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Old 12-27-2015, 03:47 PM   #458
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He said he already regrets stepping aside after reading the script from Episode 8.
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Old 12-27-2015, 03:50 PM   #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
That snack turned into some other shit. Anyway, now I talk about Rey. I'm going to approach her from two perspectives - as a Star Wars fan and as a writer. And before any of that I wanna point out that a) I have bias toward Action Girl archetypes so I might be easier on her than I should be, b) I personally think everybody's hatred of Mary Sue/Gary Stu characters are overblown and 'preppy'. Whenever people fuss about Mary Sues it's often because the character doesn't get beat up enough or whatever. They call Superman a Gary Stu, when he totally isn't. Batman, however, is a Gary Stu but nobody really levies that against him as much as Superman. So people kind of misuse the term and even used correctly, I personally don't see the big deal. But in this very case; Rey is the fucking goddess of Mary Sues. Io9 made a whole article saying otherwise but they protests too much (I'll cover that later). So let's get on Rey.

Earlier I mentioned that Finn was my fave character and how he was relatable. He wasn't a hotshot pilot, certainly was in over his head a lot of the times, and pretty much reacted how we would if thrown in a crazy situation like this. Then we meet Rey, who I assumed would be the other audience surrogate. Rough girl who beats off some bandits before Finn even needs to save her. I get it. I liked her. But her relatability pretty much went downhill as the movie went on and she morphed into Star Wars first actual Mary Sue, written as if a fanfic character (which is how you can spot such character types).

By the middle of the movie we see Rey have literally a talent for dealing with every possible situation thrown at her. She's a techy by default, but also a pilot (who schools HAN SOLO on fixing his own craft), a 'hacker' or whatever counts for that in the Star Wars universe, a martial artist by default, a marksman on her literal first try, not only Force sensitive but especially strong with the Force - for reasons we can only speculate over - humbling Kylo and using a Jedi mind persuasion just to experiment. She also gets a handle on telekinesis, enough to best Kylo in a lil tug of war, and naturally applies her combat prowess to the lightsaber to defeat somebody only a few degrees away from Sith Lord. For comparison; both Luke and Anakin lost their first major lightsaber duel. In ways that left them scarred for life, too. Rey scars Kylo.

Not even Luke Skywalker, in any of his three movies, had so many tools and luck at his disposal. Luke Skywalker could be captured. Luke Skywalker could be rescued. Luke Skywalker could be killed. Rey was never in a defeated position for very long. Not once. Correct me if I'm wrong. Never rescued, never defeated, never humbled, absolutely nothing she needed to learn as a character to survive this movie.

When Kylo thru a tantrum after seeing her escape, that was justified. He knew then he was dealing with an OP character.

So she's almost textbook definition Mary Sue, but as I said I don't really mind so much. Every once and a while we have author/director appeal characters, and they're all guilty of it at least once. Also, she's pretty hot. Furthermore, I'm legit intrigued as to what her deal is. Personally I'm leaning toward her being the daughter of Mara Jade, but mostly because I want her in the movies. We need to know why she was chosen, and I kinda agree on the possibility that she could be Kylo's sister. That would be another cheap callback to the older movies but perhaps... cousins? I can live with cousins.

So yeah, I like Rey. She's certainly a Mary Sue, but I like her.
http://www.salon.com/2015/12/23/star...ing_the_point/
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Old 12-27-2015, 03:58 PM   #460
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She pulls the Jedi mind trick out of her are, that was the bridge too far for me.
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Old 12-27-2015, 04:15 PM   #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
That snack turned into some other shit. Anyway, now I talk about Rey. I'm going to approach her from two perspectives - as a Star Wars fan and as a writer. And before any of that I wanna point out that a) I have bias toward Action Girl archetypes so I might be easier on her than I should be, b) I personally think everybody's hatred of Mary Sue/Gary Stu characters are overblown and 'preppy'. Whenever people fuss about Mary Sues it's often because the character doesn't get beat up enough or whatever. They call Superman a Gary Stu, when he totally isn't. Batman, however, is a Gary Stu but nobody really levies that against him as much as Superman. So people kind of misuse the term and even used correctly, I personally don't see the big deal. But in this very case; Rey is the fucking goddess of Mary Sues. Io9 made a whole article saying otherwise but they protests too much (I'll cover that later). So let's get on Rey.

Earlier I mentioned that Finn was my fave character and how he was relatable. He wasn't a hotshot pilot, certainly was in over his head a lot of the times, and pretty much reacted how we would if thrown in a crazy situation like this. Then we meet Rey, who I assumed would be the other audience surrogate. Rough girl who beats off some bandits before Finn even needs to save her. I get it. I liked her. But her relatability pretty much went downhill as the movie went on and she morphed into Star Wars first actual Mary Sue, written as if a fanfic character (which is how you can spot such character types).

By the middle of the movie we see Rey have literally a talent for dealing with every possible situation thrown at her. She's a techy by default, but also a pilot (who schools HAN SOLO on fixing his own craft), a 'hacker' or whatever counts for that in the Star Wars universe, a martial artist by default, a marksman on her literal first try, not only Force sensitive but especially strong with the Force - for reasons we can only speculate over - humbling Kylo and using a Jedi mind persuasion just to experiment. She also gets a handle on telekinesis, enough to best Kylo in a lil tug of war, and naturally applies her combat prowess to the lightsaber to defeat somebody only a few degrees away from Sith Lord. For comparison; both Luke and Anakin lost their first major lightsaber duel. In ways that left them scarred for life, too. Rey scars Kylo.

Not even Luke Skywalker, in any of his three movies, had so many tools and luck at his disposal. Luke Skywalker could be captured. Luke Skywalker could be rescued. Luke Skywalker could be killed. Rey was never in a defeated position for very long. Not once. Correct me if I'm wrong. Never rescued, never defeated, never humbled, absolutely nothing she needed to learn as a character to survive this movie.

When Kylo thru a tantrum after seeing her escape, that was justified. He knew then he was dealing with an OP character.

So she's almost textbook definition Mary Sue, but as I said I don't really mind so much. Every once and a while we have author/director appeal characters, and they're all guilty of it at least once. Also, she's pretty hot. Furthermore, I'm legit intrigued as to what her deal is. Personally I'm leaning toward her being the daughter of Mara Jade, but mostly because I want her in the movies. We need to know why she was chosen, and I kinda agree on the possibility that she could be Kylo's sister. That would be another cheap callback to the older movies but perhaps... cousins? I can live with cousins.

So yeah, I like Rey. She's certainly a Mary Sue, but I like her.
This.
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Old 12-27-2015, 04:18 PM   #462
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What the hell is a Mary Sue?
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Old 12-27-2015, 04:21 PM   #463
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It's comes from Star Trek fan fiction. The random person written becomes the best at everything because the writer is writing themselves into the role.
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Old 12-27-2015, 04:23 PM   #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rogerer View Post
She pulls the Jedi mind trick out of her are, that was the bridge too far for me.
We don't know enough about her past upbringing to know what she knew beforehand about the Jedi to judge.
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Old 12-27-2015, 04:28 PM   #465
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Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
I read that and the Io9 apologetics. It is them who are missing the point. I'm arguing from a purely writer's perspective. They are sites documented to be biased on the side of identity politics and they're doing damage control after hyping up the concept of 'FEMALE STAR WARS HERO SO COOL'. They are going to have to accept that the criticisms for such character types can be put upon her without it being interpreted as an issue with female heroines in general.

This is why I prefaced my write up by saying I don't have any issue with female heroes. At all. In fact I have preference toward them. But Rey is the very definition of Mary Sue. I'm not asking her to be depowered. I'm not calling for no more female heroes in Star Wars. This is about the development of Rey herself. I didn't write anything political at all. Mary Sue/Gary Stus have long been defined and debated about for years preceding the current social political critique of characters. Rey is not above it.

Rey is a Mary Sue character. I'm not 'missing the point', I'm applying a writer's term by exact definition. They are merely doing damage control. This is what happens when you have sites like Io9 and Salon making habit out of politically filtered review: When they come across an uncomfortable fact, they circle the wagons and do spin control. This would not be the case had the characters were switched between Finn and Rey. Same movie; but Finn is the badass pilot/techy/Force adept who saves the day in the final duel.

Hazard a guess how the response articles would read then? Here's a hint, "Male Power Fantasy". They would shred Finn and his portrayal as not only OP, but blah blah yet another dismissal of women in movies blah blah why did she have to be saved so many times. Finn's story arc on Rey would all of a sudden be detrimental to how women are portrayed. Rey's story arc on Finn would be blasted as Gary Stu and typical male dominance or whatever. This is the problem with that kind of critique versus my purely technical critique; they have to contextualize a narrative based on gender, while I adhere to set in stone terms and definitions.

I described a character type, they are protecting a narrative. In order for their articles to make sense we would have to throw out everything we know about how to spot a Mary/Gary - and I'm not doing that because people can't separate character criticism from attacks on all characters of that gender. Fuck that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rogerer View Post
She pulls the Jedi mind trick out of her are, that was the bridge too far for me.
When even Rog thinks they jumped the shark with her, we are dealing with a Mary Sue.

And again, once a-fucking-gain - I am not blasting this as 'bad'. There's nothing to defend purely from a technical standpoint. But they protests too much (as I stated in the other post). They project. Their reaction being some kind of damage control is because they think there was damage. They think female heroes is some kind of new movement they have to protect with unofficial PR articles. Only they care about it this way, not me or others. Because they are the ones with the slant.

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Old 12-27-2015, 04:42 PM   #466
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Quote:
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We don't know enough about her past upbringing to know what she knew beforehand about the Jedi to judge.
This is a cop out.

- We know she regarded Jedi as myth.
- We know somebody with any hint that they had Jedi powers would not be selling scrap for food.
- We know one does not pick up a lightsaber and beat a Sith Lord.
- We know one does not sit in the Falcon, fly it like a boss, repairs it to the surprise of its decades long owner, and... gets to keep it? It's not by default Chewie's ship?
- We know even if one discovers they are Force sensitive, you sure as shit don't just learn how to control people because 'she really wanted to'.

Saying we don't know what she knew beforehand is a cop out. Her abilities spawned out of convenience. I would have even deducted marks if they snuck in blink and you miss it clues that she had such power in the first half of the movie (Perhaps the salesman randomly goes easy on her and gives her a larger food portion after a subtle stare, or she makes an unusually good guess about where Finn was during pirate/monster clusterfuck, things like that).

It's not that she's Force sensitive, it's how especially proficient she is within a day of learning the fact. Anakin's thing was being freakishly strong even compared to other Jedi Masters, and he still had balancing traits. A learning curve. Flaws. He can be captured, rescued, humbled, etc. Luke took three movies to get badass and even then he needed daddy to save his ass from a clearly stronger opponent.

Saying she knew a few things from legends is a narrative cop out.
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Old 12-27-2015, 04:56 PM   #467
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Btw, STD, do me the courtesy of having a convo with me if you don't agree with anything I wrote. We're all boys here, we're all cool. We can chat. Don't link a website (SALON of all places, too!) as a response. I can't talk to that person, and that person won't come here and read what I wrote. But you seem to... agree with the article(?). Where am I wrong. Where am I misusing the concept of Mary Sue. Let me know right here, because an article ain't gonna cut it.

Not putting you on blast, I just find that this would be more fruitful as a discussion among ourselves. Don't defer somebody else's opinion who has no more authority on Star Wars than any of us do.
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Old 12-27-2015, 05:02 PM   #468
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But it's possible she had some training at a young age and her memory was wiped or she had just forgotten since it was so long ago.

Then all of this starts happening it causes "muscle memory" which is why she able to do these things.
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Old 12-27-2015, 05:03 PM   #469
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She totally got captured at one point!

And every other time she did something heroic... Err.. The force did it.
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Old 12-27-2015, 05:07 PM   #470
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I feel the concept of Mary Sue is sexist. It is already in the general population though so I'm not calling you sexist for using it.
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Old 12-27-2015, 05:08 PM   #471
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The force created the term.
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Old 12-27-2015, 05:13 PM   #472
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But it's possible she had some training at a young age and her memory was wiped or she had just forgotten since it was so long ago.

Then all of this starts happening it causes "muscle memory" which is why she able to do these things.
I can accept the 'amnesiac badass' archetype, it's been done may times before. The thing is, you can't wait til the middle of the movie to play with that. You have to pepper in subtle clues from the start. Something as simple as her sensing those bandits were about to steal the droid. It could be waved off on first viewing as her just having good awareness, and on second viewing it becomes a brilliant call-forward.

They didn't do this, which means a) Her character traits were written as they went along or b) She was always that badass, and they really didn't know how to express that without her coming off OP. But sure, I can buy her being trained and not knowing it. She could have even been one of Luke's first students.

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And every other time she did something heroic... Err.. The force did it.
This reminds me: Han telling Finn that the Force isn't some cure-all was brilliant.
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Old 12-27-2015, 05:16 PM   #473
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Mary Sue is another term misused by millennial younglings, but what can you do.

Rey was written as completely infallible despite being untrained. They overtly made the point that this was a woman doing it so thats the choice they deliberately made, she's a Chipette. Skimming that article, they draw comparisons to male characters, but those characters are trained elites. She ends up slightly unrelatable as a result, but with a good performance and good dialogue, Rey ultimately overcomes it
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Old 12-27-2015, 05:17 PM   #474
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Luke brings down the Death Star using the force his first day and he was a reluctant force believer.

Once Rey has her vision the force awakens in her and she goes with it. It's not as far off as you make it seem. The movie makes a point the force is calling out to her more than any other character we have seen.

It's called the force "awakens" for a reason. It's not called Star Wars: People who have th force
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Old 12-27-2015, 05:17 PM   #475
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Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
I feel the concept of Mary Sue is sexist. It is already in the general population though so I'm not calling you sexist for using it.
I can actually explain why Mary Sue was coined before Gary Stu, even though they mean the same thing. It is true it was levied on female fanfic characters first.

Because girls are to this day the number one resource of fanfiction.

Naturally when Mary Sue was coined, it was after noticing how their author appeal/insert characters were written. These were primarily female characters. Over time the definition was fitting enough for any gender and applicable to even official works, such as Rey in this movie.

Here's the kicker, Slick; Mary Sue was coined by a community of mostly female - fanfic - writers.

Where the hell are you getting sexism from?
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Old 12-27-2015, 05:28 PM   #476
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Originally Posted by The Rogerer View Post
Rey was written as completely infallible despite being untrained. They overtly made the point that this was a woman doing it so thats the choice they deliberately made, she's a Chipette. Skimming that article, they draw comparisons to male characters, but those characters are trained elites. She ends up slightly unrelatable as a result, but with a good performance and good dialogue, Rey ultimately overcomes it
You see, perfectly reasonable point. Rey is a good character, but trying to hand wave clearly apt descriptions of her character is ridiculous.

We're not gonna pretend 'Mary Sue' is some new, ambiguous term to protect Rey the character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwe2222 View Post
Luke brings down the Death Star using the force his first day and he was a reluctant force believer.
In the first Star Wars movie, before the midichlorian silliness, The Force was analogous to faith. You in fact can't say for sure if he used the Force or if he made the luckiest shot ever. Nowhere else in Star Wars was the Force used to make yourself better at shooting things. That was the brilliance of that scene; you can either take from it that Luke finally began to believe in himself and something bigger than him, or sure the Force totally saved the day. And even then Han had to save his six.

That is not the same as Rey's exploits. If she was at the end of A New Hope they'd just give all the medals to her. If she was on Dogabah she'd lift the X-Wing first try. She's an MVP. A lucky shot in a wombat sized vent would be the least of her highlights.

Quote:
The movie makes a point the force is calling out to her more than any other character we have seen.
That's all well and good, but the execution leaves us with an OP character who could be put in any situation and come out on top. If you wanna argue that she's more attuned to the Force than Luke or ANAKIN, be my guest.
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Old 12-27-2015, 05:38 PM   #477
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Just re checked who was doing episode 8 and it's Rian Johnson who did Looper, so I'm totally okay with that.
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Old 12-27-2015, 05:59 PM   #478
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Originally Posted by wwe2222 View Post
Luke brings down the Death Star using the force his first day and he was a reluctant force believer.

Once Rey has her vision the force awakens in her and she goes with it. It's not as far off as you make it seem. The movie makes a point the force is calling out to her more than any other character we have seen.

It's called the force "awakens" for a reason. It's not called Star Wars: People who have th force
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Old 12-27-2015, 06:08 PM   #479
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I have no problem with how Rey was written. She was a scavenger from a young age it seems and probably had to learn to fight to survive. If she is Luke daughter which I hope she is then the force awakening in her is plenty enough to defeated a weakened Kylo Ren. Remember Chewy shot him after he killed Han with his crossbow that they put over throughout the movie and he's not a sith lord just yet. Once she closed her eyes and embraced the force it was pretty simple, you just have to believed in the force. Really interested to see what happened between Ben and Luke to make him turn to the dark side. Really want to know more about Supreme Leader Snoke.
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Old 12-27-2015, 06:17 PM   #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
This is a cop out.

- We know she regarded Jedi as myth.
- We know somebody with any hint that they had Jedi powers would not be selling scrap for food.
- We know one does not pick up a lightsaber and beat a Sith Lord.
- We know one does not sit in the Falcon, fly it like a boss, repairs it to the surprise of its decades long owner, and... gets to keep it? It's not by default Chewie's ship?
- We know even if one discovers they are Force sensitive, you sure as shit don't just learn how to control people because 'she really wanted to'.

Saying we don't know what she knew beforehand is a cop out. Her abilities spawned out of convenience. I would have even deducted marks if they snuck in blink and you miss it clues that she had such power in the first half of the movie (Perhaps the salesman randomly goes easy on her and gives her a larger food portion after a subtle stare, or she makes an unusually good guess about where Finn was during pirate/monster clusterfuck, things like that).

It's not that she's Force sensitive, it's how especially proficient she is within a day of learning the fact. Anakin's thing was being freakishly strong even compared to other Jedi Masters, and he still had balancing traits. A learning curve. Flaws. He can be captured, rescued, humbled, etc. Luke took three movies to get badass and even then he needed daddy to save his ass from a clearly stronger opponent.

Saying she knew a few things from legends is a narrative cop out.
Falcon:

She sells scrap to the person who owned the Falcon. The bread selling alien played by Simon Pegg. That alien ran out and said "THAT'S MY SHIP!" before the scene ended. She also knew the (illegal) history of Falcon's ownership. So, she had more than a passing familiarity with the Falcon. She ran to a more powerful ship because she knew the problems with the Falcon. She knew enough about the Falcon that she would probably not want to have to deal with it unless she had to.

The new default owner of the Falcon is Leia Organa Solo. Obviously she gave it to Rey to find her brother. Things don't have to be spelled out in front of you to understand things.

The only thing I don't get is why Chewbacca hangs around now. His life debt is over. Does he owe Finn a life-debt now? He did patch him up. Does a lifedebt transfer to marriage? Chewy has a wife and kid he hasn't seen since LifeDay. Can't he get some time off?

Selling Scrap:

She had to have a lot of skills to manage to scrap enough stuff from a dangerous downed Super Destroyer. Maybe she didn't know what her skills were from the Force but she had to have something guide her in that dangerous profession.

Sith Lord Defeat:

We don't know the length of Kylo Ren's training in the force. He was acting like a child in many scenes. He was shot in the chest, fought Finn with the lightsaber. There is also the point that he was force weakened by his actions of killing Han Solo. The action which was the reverse of what Snoke said (Either Snoke lied to him or he was wrong.) He was not at his best to say the very least. He also didn't want to harm her so he was taking it easy on her. He said "you need training." He was acting like Vader to Luke before he sliced off the hand in Empire after giving up at the time to seduce Luke. He was way off his game and was trying to bring her into the Darkside.

He lost the fight more than Rey won it.
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