Ok, I'm tired of this...

[Batsu]

As I've said a million times before...

F The Fund.

WWE can change their watermarks and all...who cares about that....

...but really, I'm tired of hearing "Federation" blanked out like it's a curse word, or that it never existed. I know WWE is just trying to cover their tracks, but is that stinkin' fund so anal as to strike down stuff that happened back in 1984, or 2000? It's not like they're calling the company the WWF anymore...but this is why retrospective WWE home video releases and the 24/7 network will absolutely suck in the future as far as old WWF matches are concerned...

This really came to light again for me personally, when I peeked in The Stone Cold Truth and saw the WWF logo edited out of the old title belt in the picture.

I don't care what the company is called now... WWE, WWF... it doesn't matter. But as for stuff that happened before the change...

F The Fund.

[Vega]

Yeah, WWF aren't actually about helping animals, or they would have taken Vince's $20+ million offer to keep/share the initials, and used it to help the animals. (As I've said a few times before)

I'll never donate a dime to them.

Also, anyone who mentions the WWF to me I tell them how they refused Vince's offer that they could have helped countless animals with, and I try and spread the word so nobody will donate another dime to that piece of shit organization. Trying to convert as many people as possible.

[Transplant]

What brought this on?

[Batsu]

Looking over recent videos, and seeing the WWF logo being blurred out (or in the case of Stone Cold's book, photoshopped out), and most especially the word "Federation" being muted in old footage.

I think that The World Wipe Fund really should only take legal action if WWE were still calling itself the WWF...damn all the details of that case, though. WWF got screwed. All that should have happened was that they should have forced WWE to change their name and that was it...

[Vega]

I agree. I don't see how a wrestler from 1989 saying "federation" is going to hurt anybody, or a "WWF" logo on a microphone on archive footage is going to be the end of the world. You can't change the past, that was the company's FUCKING NAME.

[Shaggy]

Yea I have to say that I am tired of watching the WWE DVD's that come out know and watching stuff on tv and be introduced to a big blur in the back ground. Or one that follows the camera everywhere due to it being on the camera guys tv shirt. I think that they should go back. They ruined tradition.

[Mr. JL]

Originally Posted by Vega I agree. I don't see how a wrestler from 1989 saying "federation" is going to hurt anybody, or a "WWF" logo on a microphone on archive footage is going to be the end of the world. You can't change the past, that was the company's FUCKING NAME.

Fucking Panda's... fucking WWF
They're making me hate animals!!!

[LK]

I agree it is seriously annoying when the turnbuckles and mics are blurred. I mean come on what difference is it going to make to the World Wildlife Fund if the WWE tapes show the WWF logo. Everyone knows that was their name and now they have changed it to WWE.

[Hired Hitman]

The Guys saw a change to Sue for millions and took it, it was really fucking cheap and overdue, but they didn't think about suing the wwf in 1985 did they

[CosaNostra]

Originally Posted by Vega I try and spread the word so nobody will donate another dime to that piece of shit organization. Trying to convert as many people as possible.

Yeah like those fuckers actually own those letters.

I'm in.

And I hope that PETA decides to have a protest in my area to tell me that eating meat is wrong. I will take Maddox's advice and I will show up at their protest with a sign to tell them that I eat three times as much meat to cancel three of them out.

[Xero]

I'm pretty sure that they only blank out the "WWF" initals... I've heard them say "World Wrestling Federation" on many of my DVDs (Most notably when the announcer says it's for the "World Wrestling Federation Championship"), which are after the name change, like Shawn Michaels: From the Vault...

Also, I've noticed that they ONLY blank out the scratch WWF logo... For some very odd reason, they are allowed to use the block WWF initals, but not the scratch logo... All I can think of is that the scratch logo is the one they were using during the lawsuit...

[The CyNick]

This is all Vince's doing. He had a contract in place, he thought he was above the law, and went against the contract and because of that he lost the initials.

Look you people are ignoring the fact that the Fund had the initials first and brand recognition is very important to any business. They have the right to not be confused with the World Wrestling Federation, since they owned the initials in the first place. They were the ones who helped out Vince by letting him keep the initials, with a few restrictions. Vince broke those restrictions and paid for it, to me thats sweet justice.

As for any payment, again you cant overstate the fact that the WWE is seem as so low brow that many companies dont want to have anything to do with them. So perhaps the WWF felt that $20 mil wasn't worth having people associate their product with Vince's (and many times I wouldn't blame them).

But anyone who blames the FUnd for the WWE having to blur out turnbuckles and whatnot, either doesn't know the whole story or is just being dumb and/or ignorant.

[ColdwaVer]

Originally Posted by The CyNick They were the ones who helped out Vince by letting him keep the initials, with a few restrictions. Vince broke those restrictions and paid for it, to me thats sweet justice.

And it's never once crossed your mind that perhaps they thought maybe they could wait until striking at Vince and co. would have been a more profitable endeavor?

There's one big reason I don't think that the Fund cared at all about the actual use of the initials: during their proceedings they claimed numerous times that one of the things they were upset about was the idea that the WWF.COM domain name was rightfully theirs... if they cared about that so much, why have they allowed it to belong to "Web Wrestling Forums" for so damn long then?

Yes, they were in the right, in that they had legal rights to the name and Vince didn't, that doesn't mean they haven't been complete assholes about it.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Hired Hitman The Guys saw a change to Sue for millions and took it, it was really fucking cheap and overdue, but they didn't think about suing the wwf in 1985 did they

Way to go, RETARD.

The World Woldlife Fund and the World Wrestling Federation had an agreement in the 80s. The wrestling company violated that agreement, and the Fund fought that. Finally, they ended the agreement so they could expand to the net without market confusion.

If it was about money, they would have taken the money.

Guess what? They didn't!

But don't let the facts get in the way...

Meanwhile, Vega...20 Million dollars versus over half a century of name recognition. Do you know how much money the WWF makes a year for their cause? Do you realise that they make a large portion of that based on the fact that their name is established, and people trust them as an established organisation? Taking that money and changing their names would have hurt them and their animals in the long run.

Seriously, people. Keep crying about how the Panda is keeping wrestling down. It's so horrible. You just can't enjoy wrestling anymore because they can't show the letter F! OMG!

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by ColdwaVer Yes, they were in the right, in that they had legal rights to the name and Vince didn't, that doesn't mean they haven't been complete assholes about it.

Ummm...You do know how to READ, right?

The WWE were the ones who were assholes about it. The WWF allowed them to use the trademark anyways, through an agreement which the WWE VIOLATED REPEATEDLY.

It takes a lot of balls and someone light on the brains to say that the guys who helped out were the ones being assholes about it.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by The CyNick This is all Vince's doing. He had a contract in place, he thought he was above the law, and went against the contract and because of that he lost the initials. Look you people are ignoring the fact that the Fund had the initials first and brand recognition is very important to any business. They have the right to not be confused with the World Wrestling Federation, since they owned the initials in the first place. They were the ones who helped out Vince by letting him keep the initials, with a few restrictions. Vince broke those restrictions and paid for it, to me thats sweet justice. As for any payment, again you cant overstate the fact that the WWE is seem as so low brow that many companies dont want to have anything to do with them. So perhaps the WWF felt that $20 mil wasn't worth having people associate their product with Vince's (and many times I wouldn't blame them). But anyone who blames the FUnd for the WWE having to blur out turnbuckles and whatnot, either doesn't know the whole story or is just being dumb and/or ignorant.

The WWF didn't screw the WWE...The WWE screwed the WWE.

[Spoon Bender]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight The WWF didn't screw the WWE...The WWE screwed the WWE.

Now we'll see what happens with this whole TNA's use of the NWA name thing.

It's irritating to see and hear the words blanked out, but basically, if you violate a business agreement you deserve to get raped.

[Corkscrewed]

Originally Posted by Spoon Bender Now we'll see what happens with this whole TNA's use of the NWA name thing.

Hmph... I had always just assumed it was an extension of the same company. So NWA-TNA is not related to the old NWA at all?

Originally Posted by Corkscrewed Hmph... I had always just assumed it was an extension of the same company. So NWA-TNA is not related to the old NWA at all?

Guess not.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by ColdwaVer And it's never once crossed your mind that perhaps they thought maybe they could wait until striking at Vince and co. would have been a more profitable endeavor? There's one big reason I don't think that the Fund cared at all about the actual use of the initials: during their proceedings they claimed numerous times that one of the things they were upset about was the idea that the WWF.COM domain name was rightfully theirs... if they cared about that so much, why have they allowed it to belong to "Web Wrestling Forums" for so damn long then? Yes, they were in the right, in that they had legal rights to the name and Vince didn't, that doesn't mean they haven't been complete assholes about it.

Well, they dont need WWF.com, because they use .org or whatever, so of course they would just sell it.

The problem with letting Vince have the domain name is that Vince has the ability to become recognized world wide, and there would be confusion. Also, I dont think I would want to be associated in any capacity with Vince either, so I can see their concerns. With these guys they sold the site to, they will never be know world wide, so it doesn't affect them in a negative manner like Vince would/did.

And anyways, what they did with the site is irrelevant, Vince signed the deal and then went against, he deserved what he got. So again, blame Vince.

[Batsu]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight The WWF didn't screw the WWE...The WWE screwed the WWE.

That's fine and good. I don't care about their name change in the present.

What this post is about is the marring of archived footage/pictures over this. You can't change the past, is all I'm saying. WWE makes money off their past endeavors because nostalgia reigns. Having them blur out logos and mute the word "Federation" as if any of that never existed is the problem.
It really mucks up the presentation.

Business agreement, yaddayaddayadda, they deserved to get screwed, yaddayaddayadda and all that crap... that's out of the scope of the intent of this post. I don't care about national recognition, or any of this nonsense...I just care about revisionist history through video.

Can't WWE just argue "This was done before the result of the suit and was documented as such"?

That's all I'm saying.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Funky Fly It's irritating to see and hear the words blanked out, but basically, if you violate a business agreement you deserve to get raped.

Bullwinkle: In a word, you said it.

Rocky: That's three words.

Bullwinkle: I'm a heavy tipper.

But dead on.

The fans should be more pissed that the WWE blew a good faith agreement, pissed over it repeatedly, and took it down this road in the first place.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Batsu That's fine and good. I don't care about their name change in the present. What this post is about is the marring of archived footage/pictures over this. You can't change the past, is all I'm saying. WWE makes money off their past endeavors because nostalgia reigns. Having them blur out logos and mute the word "Federation" as if any of that never existed is the problem. It really mucks up the presentation. Business agreement, yaddayaddayadda, they deserved to get screwed, yaddayaddayadda and all that crap... that's out of the scope of the intent of this post. I don't care about national recognition, or any of this nonsense...I just care about revisionist history through video. Can't WWE just argue "This was done before the result of the suit and was documented as such"? That's all I'm saying.

Well, again, this only happened because of the decision to piss over a good faith agreement.

They brought the end result upon thesmselves.

By the way, if you want more confusion, the WWF could argue that anything of a time pursuant to their violation of the agreement would still be subject. The WWE would then have to go back and prove what was before the agreement was breached (not before the ruling). This would create a split where some products would then be okay, but some wouldn't. Is this any better?

That is, of course, assuming that it even got that far. re-airing old WWF matches will still create market confusion. That's the funny thing with agreements...It's the same reason they're suing Marvel for the rights to use Hulk Hogan on their On Demand service. It's an all-or-nothing sort of deal. If you lose the rights, you tend to lose all rights past and present.

In my mind, what it comes down to is me totally not caring about the F or blurred out crap. It's punishment handed down by a court because Vince flew to close to the sun. It won't, in any way, impact upon the matches themselves, it won't make the past storylines any worse, it's a minor nuisance at that.

[Kane Knight]

Also, I don't see the point of boycotting the WWF. All it really makes you is an asshole...

[Vega]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Meanwhile, Vega...20 Million dollars versus over half a century of name recognition. Do you know how much money the WWF makes a year for their cause? Do you realise that they make a large portion of that based on the fact that their name is established, and people trust them as an established organisation? Taking that money and changing their names would have hurt them and their animals in the long run.

You know for a fact Vince offered to give that much to simply keep sharing the initials, and not paying for exclusive rights. The WWF would have gotten $20 million and they could have kept their name. I could see your point if it was for exclusive rights, but you know Vince was desperate to keep his company's name and probably offered in a second a proposal for both continuing to share the name.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Vega You know for a fact Vince offered to give that much to simply keep sharing the initials, and not paying for exclusive rights. The WWF would have gotten $20 million and they could have kept their name. I could see your point if it was for exclusive rights, but you know Vince was desperate to keep his company's name and probably offered in a second a proposal for both continuing to share the name.

Wait, are you asking me or telling me?

[Vega]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Wait, are you asking me or telling me?

Well, I don't know for a fact Vince offered this deal. But I would bet a lot that he did, and can't see a reason as to why he wouldn't have offered such a deal when he was the one backed into a corner.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Vega Well, I don't know for a fact Vince offered this deal. But I would bet a lot that he did, and can't see a reason as to why he wouldn't have offered such a deal when he was the one backed into a corner.

I can't see why he wouldn't have offered 100 million, either, and yet there's no information of him doing that either.

What I do know is that there was NO offer reported of such. So while I can't prove conclusively that it didn't happen, I also can't prove that Vince isn't being controlled by martians, and either one is idiotic to bring up unless you have evidence that proves it, rather than lack of evidence to the contrary.

What I do know is that the WWF had tried to resolve this for like 5 years before the suit. The WWE had repeatedly pissed on a good faith agreement, combined with market confusion issues, which would give the WWF a DAMN good reason not to trust such an offer, which could very well end them up back at square one.

Come on. You must have a better argument than some fanboy worship "They MUST have made an offer like this..."

[Batsu]

The good faith agreement was pretty dumb in the first place...

...who in the hell is gonna confuse WWF wrestling with a charitable organization, which, by the way, only used the letters "WWF" in the United States? (Overseas, the fund has a different name which escapes me...) That's like (television network) ABC suing (a hypothetical) ABC construction because of market confusion. As far as I see it, they aren't even in the same business, so-called "market confusion" doesn't exist. The only mishap I really saw that Vince did was not using a different name for their WWF overseas (which is basically what the whole agreement was about)...if it was such a problem, but then again, like I said, the WWF name for the F'n Fund only was really used in the US.

But in short, one would have to be a complete idiot to confuse the two if you knew of both of them. They're in completely different businesses, that really, only certain markets really were paying attention to in either case. The problem I think WWF saw was that WWE was in a particular boom, an upturn of their product, which of course spilled overseas as WWE started to do more shows there. They were gaining more notoriety to the point it was like the Hulk Hogan era all over again...plus add the fact that WWF wanted a ".com" versus ".org" (which, really doesn't make too much sense if one adheres to domain naming conventions) into the picture.... it just seemed like The Fund, agreement or no agreement, 50 years or no 50 years, was actually bringing the "market confusion" upon themselves. Market confusion my rear thrusters (© some random Decepticon).

Vince's no saint, but don't make this look like The Fund was in the clear over the whole thing.

On another note, Marvel suing for the name "Hulk Hogan" is just another case of apples and oranges. If Terry Bollea painted himself green, called himself Bruce Banner and the Hogan character was a blatant ripoff of the Hulk character, I could see this... but I just see it as another case of companies being extremely anal over their properties in the case when A has nothing to do with B.

Not to throw conspiracy juice all over this, but The Fund versus The Federation was just a case of "high(er) society" blacklisting the "low brow" pro wrestling business all over again. (See: RTC vs WWE, AOLTimeWarner versus WCW....)

Bottom line: It doesn't matter what WWE calls itself now; WWE needs to stop revising history, however. It makes their home videos look extremely shoddy. (Personally, since it's not broadcast on national television, WWE shouldn't have to do any of that anyway, unless there are anal hounds at The Fund looking for specific slipups...)

Also, while Vega might present a "fanboy" argument, one has to also take in account that the opposing argument, argued as "logical" has a distinctly anti-Vince/WWE bias as well. That's just as bad.

I'm not exactly pro-WWE myself with regards to their business practices (and remember that when I talk about companies being "anal" with regards to their properties, I include WWE under the umbrella; TPWW visitors should know well of the times when WWE brought the hammer down regarding the hosting of entrance themes), but look at this plainly -- blurring/photoshopping out old logos, revising history and whatnot is just plain gay (no Lesnaro).

[Hired Hitman]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Way to go, RETARD. The World Woldlife Fund and the World Wrestling Federation had an agreement in the 80s. The wrestling company violated that agreement, and the Fund fought that. Finally, they ended the agreement so they could expand to the net without market confusion. If it was about money, they would have taken the money. Guess what? They didn't! But don't let the facts get in the way... Meanwhile, Vega...20 Million dollars versus over half a century of name recognition. Do you know how much money the WWF makes a year for their cause? Do you realise that they make a large portion of that based on the fact that their name is established, and people trust them as an established organisation? Taking that money and changing their names would have hurt them and their animals in the long run. Seriously, people. Keep crying about how the Panda is keeping wrestling down. It's so horrible. You just can't enjoy wrestling anymore because they can't show the letter F! OMG!

Okay, thanks for the facts, jack.

I just saw a bitcher and decided to bitch, you're American, you know what it's like.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Batsu The good faith agreement was pretty dumb in the first place... ...who in the hell is gonna confuse WWF wrestling with a charitable organization, which, by the way, only used the letters "WWF" in the United States? (Overseas, the fund has a different name which escapes me...) That's like (television network) ABC suing (a hypothetical) ABC construction because of market confusion. As far as I see it, they aren't even in the same business, so-called "market confusion" doesn't exist. The only mishap I really saw that Vince did was not using a different name for their WWF overseas (which is basically what the whole agreement was about)...if it was such a problem, but then again, like I said, the WWF name for the F'n Fund only was really used in the US. But in short, one would have to be a complete idiot to confuse the two if you knew of both of them. They're in completely different businesses, that really, only certain markets really were paying attention to in either case. The problem I think WWF saw was that WWE was in a particular boom, an upturn of their product, which of course spilled overseas as WWE started to do more shows there. They were gaining more notoriety to the point it was like the Hulk Hogan era all over again...plus add the fact that WWF wanted a ".com" versus ".org" (which, really doesn't make too much sense if one adheres to domain naming conventions) into the picture.... it just seemed like The Fund, agreement or no agreement, 50 years or no 50 years, was actually bringing the "market confusion" upon themselves. Market confusion my rear thrusters (© some random Decepticon). Vince's no saint, but don't make this look like The Fund was in the clear over the whole thing. On another note, Marvel suing for the name "Hulk Hogan" is just another case of apples and oranges. If Terry Bollea painted himself green, called himself Bruce Banner and the Hogan character was a blatant ripoff of the Hulk character, I could see this... but I just see it as another case of companies being extremely anal over their properties in the case when A has nothing to do with B. Not to throw conspiracy juice all over this, but The Fund versus The Federation was just a case of "high(er) society" blacklisting the "low brow" pro wrestling business all over again. (See: RTC vs WWE, AOLTimeWarner versus WCW....) Bottom line: It doesn't matter what WWE calls itself now; WWE needs to stop revising history, however. It makes their home videos look extremely shoddy. (Personally, since it's not broadcast on national television, WWE shouldn't have to do any of that anyway, unless there are anal hounds at The Fund looking for specific slipups...) Also, while Vega might present a "fanboy" argument, one has to also take in account that the opposing argument, argued as "logical" has a distinctly anti-Vince/WWE bias as well. That's just as bad. I'm not exactly pro-WWE myself with regards to their business practices (and remember that when I talk about companies being "anal" with regards to their properties, I include WWE under the umbrella; TPWW visitors should know well of the times when WWE brought the hammer down regarding the hosting of entrance themes), but look at this plainly -- blurring/photoshopping out old logos, revising history and whatnot is just plain gay (no Lesnaro).

Yeah. Market confusion. Why would people confuse the WWF with the WWF?

God, the two acronyms are so totally different! Why didn't I see it before????

Like the WWE haven't edited shit when it suits them anyway?

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Hired Hitman Okay, thanks for the facts, jack. I just saw a bitcher and decided to bitch, you're American, you know what it's like.

I know all about ignorant idiots ranting without knowing what the fuck they're talking about.

I guess you should be proud. You're as dumb as those ignorant Americans without having to be part of the country.

[Batsu]

Acronyms, schmacronyms.

The two businesses aren't in the same market, thus there should be no market confusion. The name of the company doesn't matter...now, if the Fund was a competitor of the Federation -- maybe there would be market confusion. However, assume a prospective constituent of the World Wildlife Fund was asked about giving to the "WWF" and he or she replied "you mean, the wrestling company?"....they'd have to be on crack or extremely sarcastic. There would be an offchance that the person would be sincere in said query, but let's think about this... the said "wrestling company" isn't in the business of fundraising. Why would it be? Conversely, a charitable org that raises money to save endangered wildlife isn't going to be hosting pay-per-view wrestling matches anytime soon. (Of course, the off chance that they will could show up, but based on the behavior of existing organizations that are in said business, it hasn't happened yet, and I doubt it will...)

Anyway, once again, the point of this post has been driven off course.

This post is more about WWE editing stuff to suit themselves, than it is about WWE vs The Fund. The only reason I mentioned it is to put a scapegoated face to one of the more glaring problems with WWE home videos as of recent.

I'm getting tired of WWE editing stuff that doesn't need to be edited. On Smackdown (I always watch the show with skepticism, because of the heavy editing that goes on there) as well as PPVs (that's why I'm glad I taped Wrestlemania XX)....but especially in the case where they have to revise history and freakin' blur out logos and mute the word "Federation" as if they never even said it in the first place....

...I know it's kinda anal, but it SUCKS that they do that.

Did WCW ever do anything like this?

[Kane Knight]

Well, if you're bothered by the entire thing, starting off with your rant on the WWF was a piss poor way to do it.

And yes, when you have two organisations with similar acronyms, you can cause market confusion. That's why we have whole semestrs on Trademark laws in legal schools.

Would there be market confusion? Well, I'll point out www.whitehouse.com. Quite a few people have tried to reach the White House's website. Funny thing is, this is a porn site. All government web sites use the .gov suffix. Doesn't mean people know that. Many a person has ended up at whitehouse.com by mistake.

Yeah, definitely not market confusion.

[Spoon Bender]

Originally Posted by Corkscrewed Hmph... I had always just assumed it was an extension of the same company. So NWA-TNA is not related to the old NWA at all?

I know, I was pretty shocked too. From what I was reading it seems that TNA isn't an official member of the NWA and that they pay a hefty fee to NWA for the rights to use their titles. They have a 10 year deal, but it seems NWA are getting pissed at the fact that their name is hardly even mentioned during TNA shows and have called a meeting to discuss the issue further.

[Batsu]

I figure that after the net surfer realizes his or her mistake, and finds the correct "whitehouse", they'll never confuse the White House with a porn site afterward.

The question is:

Did the White House try to raise a legal stink over the name, though?

The Fund did, and did so in an opportunistic manner. They should have nipped the whole thing in the bud when Vince decided to change the name years ago, not when The Federation was making a ton of money. (While one will point out that 1994 was a lull in wrestling similar to today, the WWFederation was still eating off the spoils of the bygone Hogan era.)

They both were in the wrong, but if The Fund wanted to end this "market confusion", they should have stopped Vince back in 1979, not after the brand name had been established through a boom.

[Chavo Classic]

At the end of the day, it hasn't made a single bit of difference. Yes, old footage is blurred, and yes, panda's have stolen our Fs, but why do you really care?

Everyone who isn't a wrestling fan or animal lover still calls it the WWF anyway.