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Old 11-27-2016, 10:08 AM   #161
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Remember Noid, I said PROPS I used to play rugby with. You showed a shirtless picture of a back, you dink lol

Ruien you have shown me several times that you yourself can be kind of obsessed with appearance.

Look, if they let the boys do steroids and monitor it correctly and make sure they're all safe, I'm down, but they can't so what do you expect? You need steroids to have some of the old physiques.

But remember, Harley Race is an all time great and he didn't exactly look like a chiseled Adonis. Same for many. Owens looks mean, he is just fat. And it helps him.
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Old 11-27-2016, 10:29 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post


This is what I see when I see Owens. Tank was my favourite UFC fighter growing up.
Exactly. If you book him like a badass, it would not be at all unrealistic just because he's a fatty. It's not that he looks intimidating per se. It's that he looks like he COULD be intimidating. Book him as such and it would work. If Tank Abbott was a big fat jobber, you'd say "lol Look at this fat fuck." But since he was actually a badass, his look warrants a different reaction. Owens has everything it takes to pull off the same thing if booked right.
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Old 11-27-2016, 10:51 AM   #163
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Wasn't Tank booked to dance around with 3-Count?
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Old 11-27-2016, 12:26 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
Remember Noid, I said PROPS I used to play rugby with. You showed a shirtless picture of a back, you dink lol

Ruien you have shown me several times that you yourself can be kind of obsessed with appearance.

Look, if they let the boys do steroids and monitor it correctly and make sure they're all safe, I'm down, but they can't so what do you expect? You need steroids to have some of the old physiques.

But remember, Harley Race is an all time great and he didn't exactly look like a chiseled Adonis. Same for many. Owens looks mean, he is just fat. And it helps him.
Why? Because I want different size wrestlers? As I said in 1 or 2 post back, Braun has the ability to become the next Big Show/Kane type of wrestler that has been lacking. WWE will probably put Reigns over him, then Rollins, and then have him start dancing soon enough but he has the ability. AJ is fine because you need your Y2J/Shawn type of wrestlers. The problem is, every wrestler looks like a Y2J/Shawn type of wrestler basically now.

I am focusing on the bigger wrestlers because there are none. If every main event wrestler looked like Goldberg then it would get old fast too. But when you have every wrestler built the same way and wrestling the same way then what is the difference from the mid card to the upper card? Jack shit. 50/50 booking also does not help.
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Old 11-27-2016, 01:06 PM   #165
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Isn't that what's good about Owens though, that he's not built like HBK/Chris Jericho? I do agree it is boring to have everyone as 6'2" 215-220, but Owens breaks that mould.

I like the idea of big jacked up beasts being in there as well because it does add to the mystique of the business but those guys have to a) be able to work a bit and b) be available.
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Old 11-27-2016, 01:17 PM   #166
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I think the issue here is the idea that wrestling can be as big as it used to be, and that there are a number of reasons why it's not, and different people are pointing at different things to explain why it's not, or how it could get back to those heights.

We have Noid (I love you, man) who for years proposed the likes of Val Venis, Paul London, and Doug Basham as talents that WWE should push right to the top, now pushing for WWE to revert back to body guys, or that they need a Rock/Austin/Hogan type to drag them back into prominence because that's what worked when wrestling had mass appeal, and I don't buy it.

WWE had its heyday.

It's the same as a show like The X Files. At the height of its popularity it was a cultural phenomenon that premiered Season 5 at over 27.3m viewers. On its return to screens this year it garnered nearly 16.2m. Sure the TV environment has changed in the last 20 years, no doubt fewer people watch first-run TV than they used to (for example, this years biggest TV show and current cultural phenomenon The Walking Dead, premiered at 17.03m viewers - 10m fewer than X Files S5) and peoples' interests are dessiminated across other platforms, but simply X Files is not as "in" in 2016 as it was in 1996.

Same can be said for wrestling.

It's a niche product. It's always been a niche product, it just captured something in the mid/late 90s that garnered more public interest.

I don't think the lack of a body builder on top, or landing lucky on a guy like The Rock will propel them back to the pinacle of pop culture.

I don't think better writing will do this either, but it will increase my personal enjoyment of the product.

But beyond those issues, the single biggest issue is the volume of product.

I'm the type of person that "goes deep" with the TV I enjoy; ahead of the X Files mini series this year I watched the entire 9 seasons again, and read endlessly on the X files wiki site, I was the same with Lost, spending hours talking about theories on line. Current one is Westworld. But the minimum I am required to do is watch a 1 hour show once a week for maybe 24 weeks of the year.

Then there's wrestling. This is one of maybe 3 websites I go to daily, I watch Raw, SmackDown, NXT, PPVs, I watched the CWC, I watch the exclusive network stuff, I even still watch TNA, and Lucha Underground. I listen to the SCG podcast, and more often than not Jericho's show, Austin's, JR's, and Colt's. A lot of this is through force of habit (and clearly I live a very boring life) but the minimum I am required to do is watch 3 or 5 hours a week, 52 weeks a year. That's a lot. It's a hurdle the Attitude Era didn't have (they gave us 2 extra hours when they already had the audience).

Sure there will fans turned away by Balor/Owens being on top, and there will be a portion you can bring back with returns like Goldberg's, and WrestleMania will still get that casual bump, but otherwise wrestling's upper limit isn't as high as it was in 1999.
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Old 11-27-2016, 01:25 PM   #167
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I think if something is well written and produces something which resonates it would garner at least some kind of main stream attention, not that it really matters.
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Old 11-27-2016, 01:39 PM   #168
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Reading through here /wrestling forum is confusing. You have guys who dont like Cena,Reigns, Styles,Lesnar, Owens. Zayn, Balor, Ambrose etc I could go on. So tell me who you would like the belts on, who do you want people to cheer etc for?

Do we really want to go back to Marc Henry headlining PPV's , I feel like sometimes people just like to bitch and moan for the sake of it and will always moan against who is being pushed and moan that someone else isn't being pushed. Then start moaning that that guy is being pushed.

I don't know, I think the product is pretty strong at the moment. I think it didn't help Owens that HHH helped him win the belt and then just disappeared off the screens with no explanation , then they gave more screen time to Jericho who is made to look the stronger out of the two. From what I've seen of Owens I enjoy him in the ring and on the mic.
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Old 11-27-2016, 01:51 PM   #169
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Well of course people will always have different opinions on who should be pushed. Because, you know, we are all different and have different taste. I don't think you can find one person on these forums that would take everyone you listed (Cena, Reigns, Styles, Lesnar, Zayn, Balor, and Ambrose) that dislikes everyone of the individuals in the main event.
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Old 11-27-2016, 03:10 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruien View Post
Agreed with Stickman. I fully expect the main event wrestlers to be in better shape than me or be like Braun/Kane type of big. I should never feel I can take on the world champ. I should feel like the guy would destroy me.
The problem I see with this point of view is that it becomes an arms race of believability, for lack of a better term. Who's going to beat this monster? A bigger monster. And bigger. And bigger. And so it goes until you get to an area where you've cut the nuts off of finding any sort of actual, viable threat, because you need your "championship material" to be nearly 7 feet tall, 350lbs of "look the shit" muscles, and hope to the old gods and the new they can actually perform and talk.

There was too much stock into the "larger than life actual superhero" to where it turned into a pigeonhole.

Meanwhile, over the years, they have gotten farther away from actually making people give a shit about people UNLESS the company thinks you should give a shit. Reigns is a great example of what is now wasted opportunity. They were so dead set on crowning him "The New Cena", that they missed the opportunity to have a monster heel that could possibly hage been poised for that face turn by now. They were so focused on him heading to Mania a couple of years back, but didn't really make a case, build a lore, or otherwise give fans any reason why they should want to have this guy be the headliner they pay to see.

The industry has made a weird "full circle". Nearly everyone watching wrestling as a fan at this point *knows* it is fake, but are willing to suspend the disbelief to accept things that only make sense in the realm of pro wrestling. One of those things is going back to appreciation for people who can put on great matches with psychology and all that shit, and having "a good look" is icing on the cake.

AJ Styles is an amazimg talent, and it is archaic and stupid to assume he should job or be relegated to spot monkey cruiserweight status simply because he isn't built like Scott Steiner. I'm not the hugest Steen fan in the world, but what is the difference between him and an in-his-prime Vader? Vader was barrel-tummied and chicken legged, but he just had wrestling world acceptable ring attire and not dressed like someone who bought a ticket.

If the guy is billed and represented to be someone who can hurt you, and can sell the fact he can hurt you, it shouldn't matter if he looks like a roid freak or is just taller than most people.

I'd still buy Harley Race could kick my ass. I never saw such fear from the akwardly lanky Khali.
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Old 11-27-2016, 03:31 PM   #171
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Also Ruien, Kevin Owens would beat the fuck out of you.
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Old 11-27-2016, 03:42 PM   #172
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We are really going to go back to the whole internet tough debate? It was shitty 1 or 2 pages back and it will be shitty now.

Really? Since you want to back into this debate. Owens has 2, maybe 3, inches on me. Is in no where near the shape I am in. Has he ever trained to actually defend/hurt/detain anyone? I have no idea if he has because I don't give two shits what happens outside of the WWE ring but I have years of karate/military/police training.

Do we need to keep playing the who is tougher than who shit though? It stupid as I said it was before.
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Old 11-27-2016, 03:44 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
The problem I see with this point of view is that it becomes an arms race of believability, for lack of a better term. Who's going to beat this monster? A bigger monster. And bigger. And bigger. And so it goes until you get to an area where you've cut the nuts off of finding any sort of actual, viable threat, because you need your "championship material" to be nearly 7 feet tall, 350lbs of "look the shit" muscles, and hope to the old gods and the new they can actually perform and talk.

There was too much stock into the "larger than life actual superhero" to where it turned into a pigeonhole.

Meanwhile, over the years, they have gotten farther away from actually making people give a shit about people UNLESS the company thinks you should give a shit. Reigns is a great example of what is now wasted opportunity. They were so dead set on crowning him "The New Cena", that they missed the opportunity to have a monster heel that could possibly hage been poised for that face turn by now. They were so focused on him heading to Mania a couple of years back, but didn't really make a case, build a lore, or otherwise give fans any reason why they should want to have this guy be the headliner they pay to see.

The industry has made a weird "full circle". Nearly everyone watching wrestling as a fan at this point *knows* it is fake, but are willing to suspend the disbelief to accept things that only make sense in the realm of pro wrestling. One of those things is going back to appreciation for people who can put on great matches with psychology and all that shit, and having "a good look" is icing on the cake.

AJ Styles is an amazimg talent, and it is archaic and stupid to assume he should job or be relegated to spot monkey cruiserweight status simply because he isn't built like Scott Steiner. I'm not the hugest Steen fan in the world, but what is the difference between him and an in-his-prime Vader? Vader was barrel-tummied and chicken legged, but he just had wrestling world acceptable ring attire and not dressed like someone who bought a ticket.

If the guy is billed and represented to be someone who can hurt you, and can sell the fact he can hurt you, it shouldn't matter if he looks like a roid freak or is just taller than most people.

I'd still buy Harley Race could kick my ass. I never saw such fear from the akwardly lanky Khali.
You missed the whole point of AJ being the Y2J of this era. You missed the point of wanting a variety. Your missed the point of having different expectations.

Is Steen the person as Owens? I think so but want to make sure. I don't remember anything about Vader so no idea. Just remember he sat on people.
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Old 11-27-2016, 03:44 PM   #174
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I'm not saying anything about internet tough, I think Kevin Owens would beat the fuck out of me too and I'm a pretty tough guy myself, not even saying you aren't tough.

If you have all that training and are a badass you could probably beat up 250 pound body builders as well. So your point is still moot.
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Old 11-27-2016, 04:13 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
That's exactly the point though. People are saying that Kevin Owens is more intimidating than guys like the guys Ruien is comparing him to. The very point is that almost anyone with a brain would rather confront Kevin Owens than most other top guys.
If someone killed your mother and was standing over her corpse as you walked in I don't think it would matter who was more "intimidating." That sort of scenario would make James Elsworth one of the scariest men on the planet (albeit temporarily.) I mean I don't know about you, but I'd have the exact same reaction to Kevin Owens killing my mom as I would Goldberg doing it. Either way I'm running for my gun. That's not the sort of scenario where you just "man up" and confront a guy. If you wanted to make a comparison like that you should have just used the bar fight scenario.
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Old 11-27-2016, 04:44 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Exactly. If you book him like a badass, it would not be at all unrealistic just because he's a fatty. It's not that he looks intimidating per se. It's that he looks like he COULD be intimidating. Book him as such and it would work. If Tank Abbott was a big fat jobber, you'd say "lol Look at this fat fuck." But since he was actually a badass, his look warrants a different reaction. Owens has everything it takes to pull off the same thing if booked right.
Probably also helped in Abbott's case he was a little legit crazy while in WCW to the point he actually threatened to kill and beat up people there. Even him pulling a knife on Goldberg wasn't supposed to be done the way it was on tv I think.
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Old 11-27-2016, 04:53 PM   #177
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Quote:
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Wasn't Tank booked to dance around with 3-Count?
Something wrong with that punk? Tell it to Tank's face man!!

Dance along with three count! Make it last forever!
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Old 11-27-2016, 06:02 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Exactly. If you book him like a badass, it would not be at all unrealistic just because he's a fatty. It's not that he looks intimidating per se. It's that he looks like he COULD be intimidating. Book him as such and it would work. If Tank Abbott was a big fat jobber, you'd say "lol Look at this fat fuck." But since he was actually a badass, his look warrants a different reaction. Owens has everything it takes to pull off the same thing if booked right.
Thank you. Owens doesn't remind me of Tank Abbott. Owens reminds me of a fat fuck playing pro-wrestler.
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Old 11-27-2016, 06:04 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Wishbone View Post
If someone killed your mother and was standing over her corpse as you walked in I don't think it would matter who was more "intimidating." That sort of scenario would make James Elsworth one of the scariest men on the planet (albeit temporarily.) I mean I don't know about you, but I'd have the exact same reaction to Kevin Owens killing my mom as I would Goldberg doing it. Either way I'm running for my gun. That's not the sort of scenario where you just "man up" and confront a guy. If you wanted to make a comparison like that you should have just used the bar fight scenario.
Fuck's sake, way to miss the point again. Ruien (not me, by the way) was just trying to find a situation where you'd be pissed off at a guy enough to feel the need to do something about it. The semantics of the situation do not fucking matter.

Lol, this thread is completely ridiculous.
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Old 11-27-2016, 06:09 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by #BrotherVito DELETED View Post
That's pretty much what I see too. Having a gut doesn't proclude him from kicking ass.
Why can't people grasp the actual points being made? Being fat =/= looking like a mark. Being a bad-ass =/= being presented as a bad-ass. Having a good look =/= being chiseled.
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Old 11-27-2016, 07:28 PM   #181
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I find it funny how I brought up the look issue in this thread but I also buy KO as champ which so many of you seem to not. Keep him as the obnoxious bully type character and he is golden as champ. He legit looks and acts like a highschool bully, if they play that up by shit talking everyone yet still getting clean wins him being champ is great. Once they turn him face all his appeal will be gone because then he will just look like another indy guy,
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Old 11-27-2016, 08:44 PM   #182
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Ruien knows martial arts he could totally kick Kevin Owens' ass
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Old 11-27-2016, 08:49 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Fuck's sake, way to miss the point again. Ruien (not me, by the way) was just trying to find a situation where you'd be pissed off at a guy enough to feel the need to do something about it. The semantics of the situation do not fucking matter.

Lol, this thread is completely ridiculous.
Then he really should have picked someone else to use those ridiculous scenarios on. I'm not the kind of person that just gets angry and starts fights regardless of the situation. Takes a lot to push me to that point.
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Old 11-27-2016, 08:53 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Why can't people grasp the actual points being made? Being fat =/= looking like a mark. Being a bad-ass =/= being presented as a bad-ass. Having a good look =/= being chiseled.
I think you might be looking at this too subjectively, Noid. You're probably my favorite person on this forum, but your insistence that Owens doesn't have a good look when many in this thread think he does makes it seem like you're saying your opinion is more valid than theirs are.

Oh, and just an FYI I'm not really invested in it one way or the other. I mean I think Owens looks fine where he is, but honestly at this point I'd buy into anyone being a champ if they were pushed correctly. I just don't care about that sort of stuff so whether or not Owens is intimidating or whatever is moot in my opinion.
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Old 11-27-2016, 09:06 PM   #185
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Ruien knows martial arts he could totally kick Kevin Owens' ass
Damn right.
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Old 11-27-2016, 09:06 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishbone View Post
Then he really should have picked someone else to use those ridiculous scenarios on. I'm not the kind of person that just gets angry and starts fights regardless of the situation. Takes a lot to push me to that point.
Pretty sure I said it in general and your just replied to it.
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Old 11-27-2016, 09:44 PM   #187
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this thread reminds me of Jim Cornette saying "Shawn Michaels couldn't whip cream with an out board motor" in a real fight
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Old 11-27-2016, 09:51 PM   #188
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Wish this thread would die so I may post me new thread.
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Old 11-27-2016, 10:04 PM   #189
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Pretty sure I said it in general and your just replied to it.
First one, yes. Second one about the murdered mother was directed at me.
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Old 11-27-2016, 10:53 PM   #190
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Post your new thread anyway, Ruien.

By the way, Wishbone, I do completely agree with you -- it is subjective -- I see something credible in AJ Styles, for example. But lately I've been trying to get into the psyche of the average person -- that elusive "casual fan." I think it's pretty nerdy to pretend Kevin Owens is legit. If you buy it, that's wonderful, but I think it's a lot of work to expect a person who doesn't surround themselves in folklore about how good Owens is in the ring to do.
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Old 11-27-2016, 11:21 PM   #191
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Fair points, but I don't think it's as big of a stretch as you're making it out to be. I could be wrong, but based on personal experience with people I know who don't watch on a regular basis I've seen them have just about the same reaction to Owens as they do to any other pro-wrestler.

My biggest issue is that I just don't think that trying to bring in so-called "casuals" is even viable at this point. Personally I think wrestling is just too far gone to ever appeal to them again. My opinion is that WWE should focus on keeping their current audience and bringing back old wrestling fans who stopped watching due to the stale state of the product, but trying to get totally new fans is in my opinion a waste of time. I could be wrong since I'm basing a lot of that on anecdotal evidence from my own life, but that's my point of view anyway.
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Old 11-27-2016, 11:46 PM   #192
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Quote:
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Wish this thread would die so I may post me new thread.
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Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Post your new thread anyway, Ruien.

By the way, Wishbone, I do completely agree with you -- it is subjective -- I see something credible in AJ Styles, for example. But lately I've been trying to get into the psyche of the average person -- that elusive "casual fan." I think it's pretty nerdy to pretend Kevin Owens is legit. If you buy it, that's wonderful, but I think it's a lot of work to expect a person who doesn't surround themselves in folklore about how good Owens is in the ring to do.
I'm with Noid. What's stopping you, Ruien (other than yourself)?
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Old 11-28-2016, 04:19 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishbone View Post
Fair points, but I don't think it's as big of a stretch as you're making it out to be. I could be wrong, but based on personal experience with people I know who don't watch on a regular basis I've seen them have just about the same reaction to Owens as they do to any other pro-wrestler.

My biggest issue is that I just don't think that trying to bring in so-called "casuals" is even viable at this point. Personally I think wrestling is just too far gone to ever appeal to them again. My opinion is that WWE should focus on keeping their current audience and bringing back old wrestling fans who stopped watching due to the stale state of the product, but trying to get totally new fans is in my opinion a waste of time. I could be wrong since I'm basing a lot of that on anecdotal evidence from my own life, but that's my point of view anyway.
I think we're discussing semantics here, because I'm pretty much on the same page, but when I say "casuals" I am talking about that lapsed fan. The sort that Goldberg could have brought in if the rest of Survivor Series was as exciting as his return.
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Old 11-28-2016, 07:52 AM   #194
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Kevin Owens needs to be chiseled to bring in fans that don't exist.
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Old 11-28-2016, 09:06 AM   #195
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Owens sheds weight and ends up absurdly ripped.

"Owens doesn't look unique anymore, now he looks like just another cookie cutter bodybuilder."
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Old 11-28-2016, 09:07 AM   #196
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Reading through here /wrestling forum is confusing. You have guys who dont like Cena,Reigns, Styles,Lesnar, Owens. Zayn, Balor, Ambrose etc I could go on. So tell me who you would like the belts on, who do you want people to cheer etc for?

Do we really want to go back to Marc Henry headlining PPV's , I feel like sometimes people just like to bitch and moan for the sake of it and will always moan against who is being pushed and moan that someone else isn't being pushed. Then start moaning that that guy is being pushed.

I don't know, I think the product is pretty strong at the moment. I think it didn't help Owens that HHH helped him win the belt and then just disappeared off the screens with no explanation , then they gave more screen time to Jericho who is made to look the stronger out of the two. From what I've seen of Owens I enjoy him in the ring and on the mic.
People will always have differing opinions, the idea that there is a concensus IWC mindest is patently wrong. It is a little difficult to sometimes marry individual thought processes together; there's a lot of "this is what I like so I reckon everybody else will love it", and a lot of presumption about that the casual fan wants versus what the hardcore fan wants.

Hate to pick on Noid again, but he's a key example of somebody you would have said was a typical IWC wrestling fan, who has now evolved to see "the bigger picture". He will have you believe that the product isn't as hot because of the vast majority of guys on the roster being very "everyman" rather than these "larger than life superheroes", yet will advocate that Shinsuke Nakamura is the next big star who should be brought up for a feud with HHH at Mania. I don't see it myself, and I can't see how the 2 streams of thought can exist in the same mind.

I also question how much the casual fan cares about things like psychology and selling, or whether these are things that longtime fans project on to other parts of the (potential) fan base. (Also don't quite get how you can call for the return of real-life superheroes yet bemoan a superhero-like comeback).

Don't get me wrong, psychology can add to a match, and makes the experience far more emersive if you know what you're looking for (look at the 2-out-of-3 Falls Tag Match at NXT Toronto, for example) but I think the importance to the casual fan is probably overstated.

Some elements of the IWC like to think of themselves about it all; they can see the strings and they love to let you know about it. "If you can't see what they were doing with the no-match between Lesnar and Goldberg then you don't understand the business" is a key theme that's been doing the rounds. JR on his podcast pretty much says this, he likens it to the NWA Champ dropping a fall in a tag match, stating that it's something that worked then so it should work today, completely ignoring the fact that what worked with limited/territory coverage has been used for the last 30 years and at this point it so transparant that it's laughable.

For me, you can dislike the Lesnar/Goldberg result because you can see the strings; another rehash at Mania. A match we've seen before, that will likely not benefit the longterm progress of the brand; Goldberg and Lesnar will likely be gone post-Mania anyway, and any heat/rub taken with them.

There's also rumours of an Orton/Taker match; another rehash, where nobody gains anything. Scratch that. Orton could beat Taker, to put himself in that bracket with Lesnar to set up a rematch between those two, but, well, another rematch.

I can pick apart 100 things that WWE do that don't make sense, but I don't think fixing those will be an instant fix to the ratings slump.
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Old 11-28-2016, 09:13 AM   #197
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But, yeah, some of the shit the audience does is truly awful. The "You still got it" chant for Taker recently was plain stupid, the "this is awesome" before Dillinger/Roode even touch was silly (although with context is more understandle).

Went to a house show in England last year, there were some douchbag "fans" trying to start a "Super Dragon" chant for the whole show. Don't need that type of asshole, thanks.
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Old 11-28-2016, 02:47 PM   #198
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It's good to see Noid coming around on the mindset of WWE booking, which is to focus on larger than life characters.

The difference now is The Network. In years passed when business declined, the WWE would try to appeal to its base and push guys with strong workrate. With the idea being to keep things afloat until the next big mega star comes along. That was in an era where there was an arms race for TV ratings. It's a different environment today. The TV ratings have declined (largely in line with other shows on cable), but revenues have never been higher. Part of that is The Network, but it's also that there is more money on the table with TV in large part due to the successful move to PG programming.

At the same time house show attendance is essentially flat and merch is still selling (not at the rates of the peak, but selling nonetheless). What it shows is that WWE is less focused on the elusive "casual" audience and instead focused on being smarter at generating revenue from the hardcore fan.

It's left WWE trying to serve two masters. On the one hand, they still want to find that traditional New York territory babyface - Hogan, Rock, Austin, Cena type (hence the Reigns project, guys like Stroman, Corbin, etc) but they want to ensure the hardcore fans are looked after - (hence NXT on the weekend of big 4 PPVs, specials like the 205 deal, and pushing Internet darlings like Balor, Owens, Styles, etc.).

I have heard from too many friends who have a very passing interest in sports entertainment that they could never take a guy like Rey Mysterio seriously in a match against a guy like Big Show or Kane. I tend to agree with that line of thinking. I think for a guy to come off larger than life, he needs to have the size or the believeability in his work. For example, Kurt Angle is not massive, but if you know his background and watch him work, you have no trouble believing he could beat up anyone. I don't think guys like Styles (who I think is phenominal), Balor, or even Rollins to a degree give off a tough guy vibe. Not to say they can't be effective heels, or mid card babys, but as top dogs, I don't see it.

But that's where The Network comes in. As WWE is able to further monetize their Network subscriber base, there could be even more movement to appealing to the smarks, and less concern about that mega star that can be a crossover star.
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Old 11-28-2016, 02:54 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Thank you. Owens doesn't remind me of Tank Abbott. Owens reminds me of a fat fuck playing pro-wrestler.
He's fit so he's not a fat fuck. He could probably beat you in a mile race.
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Old 11-28-2016, 06:04 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
It's good to see Noid coming around on the mindset of WWE booking, which is to focus on larger than life characters.

The difference now is The Network. In years passed when business declined, the WWE would try to appeal to its base and push guys with strong workrate. With the idea being to keep things afloat until the next big mega star comes along. That was in an era where there was an arms race for TV ratings. It's a different environment today. The TV ratings have declined (largely in line with other shows on cable), but revenues have never been higher. Part of that is The Network, but it's also that there is more money on the table with TV in large part due to the successful move to PG programming.

At the same time house show attendance is essentially flat and merch is still selling (not at the rates of the peak, but selling nonetheless). What it shows is that WWE is less focused on the elusive "casual" audience and instead focused on being smarter at generating revenue from the hardcore fan.

It's left WWE trying to serve two masters. On the one hand, they still want to find that traditional New York territory babyface - Hogan, Rock, Austin, Cena type (hence the Reigns project, guys like Stroman, Corbin, etc) but they want to ensure the hardcore fans are looked after - (hence NXT on the weekend of big 4 PPVs, specials like the 205 deal, and pushing Internet darlings like Balor, Owens, Styles, etc.).

I have heard from too many friends who have a very passing interest in sports entertainment that they could never take a guy like Rey Mysterio seriously in a match against a guy like Big Show or Kane. I tend to agree with that line of thinking. I think for a guy to come off larger than life, he needs to have the size or the believeability in his work. For example, Kurt Angle is not massive, but if you know his background and watch him work, you have no trouble believing he could beat up anyone. I don't think guys like Styles (who I think is phenominal), Balor, or even Rollins to a degree give off a tough guy vibe. Not to say they can't be effective heels, or mid card babys, but as top dogs, I don't see it.

But that's where The Network comes in. As WWE is able to further monetize their Network subscriber base, there could be even more movement to appealing to the smarks, and less concern about that mega star that can be a crossover star.
Not once did I find Rey a credible champ. He had a match with HBGOATK and it even fell flat because of the size difference. Hbk makes everything look legit but fighting a midget didn't work for me.
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