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Old 09-13-2018, 09:38 AM   #1
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What does everybody want?
This thread is unfortunately not about Al Snow.
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I'm just trying to figure out what is going on with the WWE right now. It seems like a lot of live audiences completely shit on wrestlers the WWE is pushing. Here are my questions:

Are the majority of live audiences shitting on the product or is it just a select few?

Are the wrestlers being pushed big money makers for the company?

Does the average viewer enjoy Roman Reigns?

What direction would you personally like to see the company go in? Which wrestlers do you want to see receive pushes?

What does everybody need?

It's time to make TPWW MEAT again!

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Unlike traditional grills which cook food from a single, direct heat source, the Pit Barrel® Cooker’s cylindrical shape and “Hook-and-Hang” method places the food in the center of the action, heating the meat from all sides at once, producing consistently great-tasting, perfectly cooked meat every time.

Also have some popcorn.
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:42 AM   #2
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HEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!

*goes back and actually reads the first line*
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:47 AM   #3
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Roman Reigns surpassed Cena in merch for the #1 spot.

The average fan cares about Roman Reigns. It's the 30 year old neck beards in the audience thinking if they boo loud enough that Vince will surely listen to them
Last edited by Bad News Gertner; 09-13-2018 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:59 AM   #4
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Yeah... I wonder how much better the show would be if the crowd just fucking went along with the damned segments instead of shitting all over everything to get themselves over.

Mind you, the product is kind of shit so I get it. It's the very small amount of fans they still have that are interested in Reigns. Perhaps better direction could give us a "top guy" (even if its Reigns) who has a bigger reach.
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Old 09-13-2018, 10:12 AM   #5
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This isn't about Al Snow? I bid you good thread.
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Old 09-13-2018, 10:13 AM   #6
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Things on TV to matter and flow from week to week so you feel rewarded when they pay off.
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Old 09-13-2018, 10:53 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Midnight Gertner View Post
Roman Reigns surpassed Cena in merch for the #1 spot.

The average fan cares about Roman Reigns. It's the 30 year old neck beards in the audience thinking if they boo loud enough that Vince will surely listen to them
He bores me, but a lot of popular wrestlers have as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dastardly One View Post
Yeah... I wonder how much better the show would be if the crowd just fucking went along with the damned segments instead of shitting all over everything to get themselves over.

Mind you, the product is kind of shit so I get it. It's the very small amount of fans they still have that are interested in Reigns. Perhaps better direction could give us a "top guy" (even if its Reigns) who has a bigger reach.
It's a minimum of a $40 ticket to get in to see a product you fucking hate.
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Old 09-13-2018, 11:20 AM   #8
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I want some slow burn feuds.
I want less commercials mid match.
I want a reason to boo and cheer someone.
I want wreslters with personality.
I want wrestlers to show emotion.
I want everyone to stop acting buddy buddy with each other. Kayfabe is needed.
I want unscripted matches and promos.
I want wrestlers with muscles and a believable look. I don't want to think I could beat up the superstars because they are small and generic looking.

Right now everything is so boring because it's all generic. You can plug and play every wrestler into every fued and match. You coukd put anyone in Roman Reigns' spot and I feel there would be no difference.

I think KO is great because he has charisma, personality, looks like a bully, acts like a bully, and can go in the ring. He makes it seem less like a script and more like a shoot. We need more of that.
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Old 09-13-2018, 11:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
I want some slow burn feuds.
I want less commercials mid match.
I want a reason to boo and cheer someone.
I want wreslters with personality.
I want wrestlers to show emotion.
I want everyone to stop acting buddy buddy with each other. Kayfabe is needed.
I want unscripted matches and promos.
I want wrestlers with muscles and a believable look. I don't want to think I could beat up the superstars because they are small and generic looking.

Right now everything is so boring because it's all generic. You can plug and play every wrestler into every fued and match. You coukd put anyone in Roman Reigns' spot and I feel there would be no difference.

I think KO is great because he has charisma, personality, looks like a bully, acts like a bully, and can go in the ring. He makes it seem less like a script and more like a shoot. We need more of that.
KO blocked Melissa Joanhart on Twitter though.

Social media makes wrestlers less special.
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Old 09-13-2018, 12:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator View Post
Things on TV to matter and flow from week to week so you feel rewarded when they pay off.
This pretty much sums it up. Raw gives you basically no reason to watch. They give you the same fucking matches week after week.
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Old 09-13-2018, 12:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dastardly One View Post
Yeah... I wonder how much better the show would be if the crowd just fucking went along with the damned segments instead of shitting all over everything to get themselves over.

Mind you, the product is kind of shit so I get it. It's the very small amount of fans they still have that are interested in Reigns. Perhaps better direction could give us a "top guy" (even if its Reigns) who has a bigger reach.
It's a weird request to want the crowd to "just go along with things" despite not liking them. Though granted, it's weird to pay money to express hatred for the product. I think the show would eventually be better if people just told WWE to fuck off.

The thing is, we see non-smark crowds pretty often. They sit on their hands and sleep through 90% of the show which also sucks. If I'm a home viewer, I think I prefer the smarks shitting on everything to a crowd being dead silent. And those are basically the only two options we have to chose from since the show is insanely bad.
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Old 09-13-2018, 12:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #BrotherVito DELETED View Post
This pretty much sums it up. Raw gives you basically no reason to watch. They give you the same fucking matches week after week.
It's a special show, but take All In for example. All the small bits on BTE paid off, even Marty snapping Arthur and the other guy's fingers.
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Old 09-13-2018, 12:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMAZON WARLORD View Post
It's a minimum of a $40 ticket to get in to see a product you fucking hate.
The only thing I can think is it's a camaraderie thing. They're not so much going to enjoy the show, they're going to be around other wrestling fans and be "part of the mob".
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Old 09-13-2018, 01:07 PM   #14
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I watched the Botchamania for ALL IN. Some of it looked pretty bad. The part with Vampiro losing his shit on a live mic.
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Old 09-13-2018, 01:08 PM   #15
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Wait...did that happen at ALL IN?
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Old 09-13-2018, 01:10 PM   #16
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No you're thinking of AAAmania
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Old 09-13-2018, 01:11 PM   #17
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I just want them to have sensible, simpler booking like NXT and NJPW.
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Old 09-13-2018, 01:27 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator View Post
Things on TV to matter and flow from week to week so you feel rewarded when they pay off.
This is really it.
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Old 09-13-2018, 01:29 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
I just want them to have sensible, simpler booking like NXT and NJPW.
So you ARE concerned with story telling in wrestling.
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Old 09-13-2018, 01:30 PM   #20
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#callback
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Old 09-13-2018, 01:59 PM   #21
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Breaking Bad teased a couple of things throughout a season or five, and rewarded you when they finally dropped.
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Old 09-13-2018, 02:04 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
So you ARE concerned with story telling in wrestling.
I never said I wasn't. I just don't need it to enjoy watching a match.
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Old 09-13-2018, 02:11 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
This is really it.
They don't do angles anymore. When was the last time they did a "cliffhanger" type of angle?
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Old 09-13-2018, 02:13 PM   #24
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The closest thing going now is the 'Who Attacked Aleister Black?' angle in NXT, but I don't think we're talking about NXT. I'd really have to think about that one on the main roster.
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Old 09-13-2018, 02:14 PM   #25
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They tried to do it with 'Who Killed Vince McMahon?', but Chris Benoit fucked that one up. Was that the last attempt at an angle? Not even joking, can't remember anything else.
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Old 09-13-2018, 02:15 PM   #26
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They could have had something when Punk beat Cena at MitB, but they brought him back too soon. They were TRYING something with The Awesome Truth, I think, but I thought that was flat. Nexus flopped due to weirdness...man, I dunno. That's sad.
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Old 09-13-2018, 03:06 PM   #27
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I remember years ago where there was a span of a couple months or so where every Raw would end with an insane cliffhanger ending. I remember the stage collapsing on Vince, JBL driving a car into Cena while he was propped up against another. There were a few more. It seemed like they had a sudden plan to have every Raw end with something crazy and then dropped it when they realized how hard it would be.
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Old 09-13-2018, 04:42 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Midnight Gertner View Post
Roman Reigns surpassed Cena in merch for the #1 spot.

The average fan cares about Roman Reigns. It's the 30 year old neck beards in the audience thinking if they boo loud enough that Vince will surely listen to them
Would this be the case if Cena had been around for the last few months?
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Old 09-13-2018, 05:43 PM   #29
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There are too many types of fans to make a pleasing product with mass appeal. Wrestling has become compartmentalized niche fandoms.
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Old 09-13-2018, 06:55 PM   #30
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I want a realistic, down-to-Earth show...

That's completely off the wall and swarming with magic robots.
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Old 09-13-2018, 07:10 PM   #31
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Old 09-13-2018, 07:15 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
They tried to do it with 'Who Killed Vince McMahon?', but Chris Benoit fucked that one up. Was that the last attempt at an angle? Not even joking, can't remember anything else.
The first thing that came to mind for me was when CM Punk left the WWE with the WWE Championship in 2011.
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:29 PM   #33
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Mental gymnastics done to defend Reigns and go against what is being perceived as “cool kids disliking the champ” is really confusing.

He is a shit top guy on top of a shitty product with no stories, surprises, cliffhangers, shocks, scares, nothing.

Reigns is top merch seller because kids eat shit and like it. That’s all they care about nowadays, and use his merch as proof that he is good on some level.

He has terrible attire, music, no personality, very little charisma for a top guy and an irritating move set which he spams constantly. He is arguably the worst top guy they have ever had, but he is the company guy and a safe option so I guess enjoy your merch sales and 2.6 ratings and be done with it

He works hard, but he just doesn’t have what it takes to be a top guy

Wrestling is very simple. He is booed because fans consistently rejected the position he has been put in. It’s not because it’s cool, or because of Daniel Bryan, or anything else. It’s because he isn’t good enough
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:34 PM   #34
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Maluco summed up my point nicely. He is intellectually aware that reigns in bringing in money. But he isnt able to simply focus on the aspects of the show that are geared for him. He can only see how the parts that arent for him makes him angry.

There is no solution.
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:35 PM   #35
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Quote:
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There are too many types of fans to make a pleasing product with mass appeal. Wrestling has become compartmentalized niche fandoms.
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Old 09-13-2018, 10:19 PM   #36
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Quote:
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Maluco summed up my point nicely. He is intellectually aware that reigns in bringing in money. But he isnt able to simply focus on the aspects of the show that are geared for him. He can only see how the parts that arent for him makes him angry.

There is no solution.
Don’t see it like that at all to be honest. I know what you’re saying. I watched for a long time and it wasn’t that there were things I liked and didn’t, I disliked all of it. The product is poor and catering to kids is the easiest, safest bet. Quality is low across the board in terms of personalities, writing and how coherent the product is. It took me years and years to get to point where I stopped completely. I went through the phases of trying to find stuff “catered to me”

Kids watch power rangers which just repeats the same thing every week, same idea here. Fight, rinse and repeat.

Occam’s Razor. It’s not that complex. Ratings and attendances are down because product is not good enough. There is no effort put into their “universe”, everyone is the same and it sucks.

Sad thing is, higher ups go with what you are saying and that allows them to rest on their laurels and continue putting in no effort to improving things
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Old 09-13-2018, 10:26 PM   #37
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95lbsRatings are down because tv is dying. Show is very strong compared to everything else on tv, thats why they got those huge contracts from fox and universal. Ratings are down for everything though. NBA NFL the Today Show. Doesnt matter.

Gate is down because cena left (who according to most wrestling fans for all but...3ish? years of his career was the worst thing to ever put boots on)
Last edited by Destor; 09-14-2018 at 02:53 AM.
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Old 09-14-2018, 02:35 AM   #38
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As a kid I remembered the gimmicks. All the guys had a personality and a story. For the last 15 years everyone has been bland and interchangeable. Cena caught on with the kids because of charisma and character even though us who knew better hated him. He is still 200x better than Reigns. Reigns does absolutely nothing to stand out. Reigns is a top guy who I will forget in 10 years, I will never forget Mr Perfect, Macho Man, Brutus Beefcake etc because they had a character.
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:59 AM   #39
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Are the majority of live audiences shitting on the product or is it just a select few?

If they're not actively shitting on them, they are wanting to go entertained and things either barely get there or leave people underwhelmed in the sense that they are either nonplussed or it triggers memories of being more entertained and kind of leaves an itch that they hope to scratch next time. There's a general malaise about things. Whenever someone comes out and says "This is program is crap" people cheer.

Are the wrestlers being pushed big money makers for the company?

No. I mean, not comparatively. No one is a massive draw and while some guys move merch, that's because when people go to these things, they're probably going to buy someone's t-shirt.

Does the average viewer enjoy Roman Reigns?

I can't imagine why they would. He's not very charismatic in the role, looks shit, is often booked like shit, cuts boring/shit promos and his matches are always bogged down by the emotional response to them. He was never embraced as the top guy by the fans like Cena initially was. There's nothing to hook people. The only reason they could possibly like him is despite the crowd reactions.

What direction would you personally like to see the company go in? Which wrestlers do you want to see receive pushes?

I'd like to see them go back to the fundamentals of pro-wrestling. Heat, feuds, psychology, selling, promos, etc. Not "they like to have fun" or "they don't like to have fun," guys having a series of matches for no real reason, choreographed spot-fests, nothing matters, scripts, etc. I'm honestly not sure who I'd like to see pushed right now, because it's all this gentrified mess. There are guys I really love -- AJ, Joe, Bryan, Nakamura, Harper, Cesaro, Cena when he's there -- but I just can't envision what the direction would be now.

If they're getting Rock in, Reigns vs. Rock at Mania is the right direction. For now. But that's very short-term. But everyone else is on their card. How things flesh out underneath that is kind of up in the air.

I do want to see them do Nakamura vs. Bryan at Mania. I think there is a way to return both guys to a hot spot with that. I want to see Cena vs. Joe. I would like to see Luke Harper take out Sheamus to set-up a feud with parnter-avenger Cesaro. But that last one isn't going to change the business. They've got Ronda -- I want them to bring in Shayna to feud with that "fame-hoarding bitch" to set up something between them. It'd be a hot semi-main on the Rock's WrestleMania. I just don't really know how you get anyone into true position in this climate.

What does everybody need?

Head! And a time machine!
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Old 09-14-2018, 10:38 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan
It's a weird request to want the crowd to "just go along with things" despite not liking them. Though granted, it's weird to pay money to express hatred for the product. I think the show would eventually be better if people just told WWE to fuck off.

The thing is, we see non-smark crowds pretty often. They sit on their hands and sleep through 90% of the show which also sucks. If I'm a home viewer, I think I prefer the smarks shitting on everything to a crowd being dead silent. And those are basically the only two options we have to chose from since the show is insanely bad.
Very weird! I think fans keep buying in b/c there are parts they like but what's pushed at the top. You'd think the non-smark crowds would be more vocal about they like.
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