WWE's current strategy of hoarding independent talent is lamentable

[Tom Guycott]

Originally Posted by Stickman They aren’t hoarding anything. If talent doesn’t want to be there they can sign elsewhere.

Okay, so what would you rather do... take a job where you make $50 a night and are appreciated or make $500 a night?

Yes, that's an exaggeration, but WWE has gotten into a habit of throwing a more comfortable amount of money at people who "have a name" on the indy circuit and, for the most part, not doing shit with them or even planning to. They mostly just take talent off the table so that they aren't making money for or gathering attention elsewhere.

This has actually been made worse by NXT, where they might get a false sense of upward momentum, but then when they get the call to the main roster, they're "just another guy". They've gone even harder with tournaments like the Mae Young and CWC, trying to sign talent that you know damn well they really wouldn't do shit with or see any value in (women and cruiserweights), but they appear to not want to take the chance to let someone else see value and capitalize.

People around here have poked fun at Ryder over the years, but seriously, the guy is mostly getting a paycheck to tour with WWE and barely do anything. When he was at his hottest, there wasn't like there was a viable place to go where he could truly say "push me or else". Hell, even when Cody walked, it was considered a huge gamble, even with the beginnings of a new renaissance in the industry going on about that time. They signed CM Punk way back when, and had zero plans for him. They have Daniel Bryan, and fired* him. Twice. And basically gave him paid leave for a few more years. They turned KENTA into a joke, and Shinsuke Nakamura isn't that far behind. Gallows & Anderson are around in spite of WWE treating their tag team divisions like scum. Same with War Machine Raiders. They have the Kanelis' family because the company had a raging boner for Maria and her husband had to tag along, but they clearly have no plans for him to be worth shit. Ricochet is hot shit in NXT right now, but main roster? If it ain't Rey Rey, it ain't worth doing, so you know he'll be on the purple brand holding the "this flippy shit is all you are" title for awhile until all his shine rubs off and he fucks off to oblivion or walks like PAC. Oh yeah, and PAC. Pretty sure 3/4 of UE is around just so those three guys who aren't Adam Cole aren't in ROH anymore.

There's plenty more, but you get the point. There are very few people they "really" want. Every person they have is one less person available for ROH, iMPACT, NJPW, and any other fed... only that strategy is getting less sustainable, since there are now more sources making more noise than ever before, and less guys having to sacrifice "what they love" for "more money".

[xrodmuc316]

Originally Posted by Tom Guycott Okay, so what would you rather do... take a job where you make $50 a night and are appreciated or make $500 a night?

I personally would rather take $500, but that's just me.

[Stickman]

Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 I personally would rather take $500, but that's just me.

Anyone with a brain takes that.

[Stickman]

Originally Posted by Tom Guycott Okay, so what would you rather do... take a job where you make $50 a night and are appreciated or make $500 a night? Yes, that's an exaggeration, but WWE has gotten into a habit of throwing a more comfortable amount of money at people who "have a name" on the indy circuit and, for the most part, not doing shit with them or even planning to. They mostly just take talent off the table so that they aren't making money for or gathering attention elsewhere. This has actually been made worse by NXT, where they might get a false sense of upward momentum, but then when they get the call to the main roster, they're "just another guy". They've gone even harder with tournaments like the Mae Young and CWC, trying to sign talent that you know damn well they really wouldn't do shit with or see any value in (women and cruiserweights), but they appear to not want to take the chance to let someone else see value and capitalize. People around here have poked fun at Ryder over the years, but seriously, the guy is mostly getting a paycheck to tour with WWE and barely do anything. When he was at his hottest, there wasn't like there was a viable place to go where he could truly say "push me or else". Hell, even when Cody walked, it was considered a huge gamble, even with the beginnings of a new renaissance in the industry going on about that time. They signed CM Punk way back when, and had zero plans for him. They have Daniel Bryan, and fired* him. Twice. And basically gave him paid leave for a few more years. They turned KENTA into a joke, and Shinsuke Nakamura isn't that far behind. Gallows & Anderson are around in spite of WWE treating their tag team divisions like scum. Same with War Machine Raiders. They have the Kanelis' family because the company had a raging boner for Maria and her husband had to tag along, but they clearly have no plans for him to be worth shit. Ricochet is hot shit in NXT right now, but main roster? If it ain't Rey Rey, it ain't worth doing, so you know he'll be on the purple brand holding the "this flippy shit is all you are" title for awhile until all his shine rubs off and he fucks off to oblivion or walks like PAC. Oh yeah, and PAC. Pretty sure 3/4 of UE is around just so those three guys who aren't Adam Cole aren't in ROH anymore. There's plenty more, but you get the point. There are very few people they "really" want. Every person they have is one less person available for ROH, iMPACT, NJPW, and any other fed... only that strategy is getting less sustainable, since there are now more sources making more noise than ever before, and less guys having to sacrifice "what they love" for "more money".

I think I get what you are saying, but WWE has roles for guys. You bring up Zach Ryder, he works hard, fills a role, makes good money doing it, what's wrong with that? You need guys to fill Main Event or whatever other jobber show is going. There are house shows daily all over the US and the world, they need talent to fill those shows as the stars aren't going to be there every night. A lot of these guys the wwe signs aren't stars, they are role players. Could they be stars in other companies that nobody watches, maybe. But you go where the money is when you're trying to pay bills.

It's not like Mike Kanelis matters at all so he fills a role. CM Punk and Daniel Bryan weren't exactly amazing when they first got to WWE because their style is different. They were able to grab the brass ring and become relevant but that is so rare. Not every one can be the world champ.

[Tom Guycott]

Originally Posted by Stickman I think I get what you are saying, but WWE has roles for guys. You bring up Zach Ryder, he works hard, fills a role, makes good money doing it, what's wrong with that? You need guys to fill Main Event or whatever other jobber show is going. There are house shows daily all over the US and the world, they need talent to fill those shows as the stars aren't going to be there every night. A lot of these guys the wwe signs aren't stars, they are role players. Could they be stars in other companies that nobody watches, maybe. But you go where the money is when you're trying to pay bills. It's not like Mike Kanelis matters at all so he fills a role. CM Punk and Daniel Bryan weren't exactly amazing when they first got to WWE because their style is different. They were able to grab the brass ring and become relevant but that is so rare. Not every one can be the world champ.

Couple of problems here:

Firstly, the false equivalence of "Not every one can be the world champ". That's fine and all, but that isn't what people are asking for. Signing talent with no discernable plan for them - even in supposedly "filling a role" - is something WWE is apt to do.

Also, they have a wealth of talent, but they get fixated on elevating and pushing only a handful of people, and staying focused on that same handful. It isn't like back in the day, where they tier off talent, and have semi discernable jobbers, lower card, midcard, and upper crust of folks... they instead go "here's this new person", and then they generally fuck off of tv or do nothing important after about 3 months. It looks even goofier when you have NXT and structure that to both train and build talent, then "promote" them to the main roster and treat them like dickheads.

Ryder was easy, since when the whole "Ryder Revolution" thing was going on, WWE seemed pretty keen on ignoring it. He got himself over in his own way, and WWE didn't know what to do with that. Now imagine the big fat nothing he got in that time period, and imagine if there were another potentially viable company that would offer him competitive money and an opportunity to do something besides make catering table cameos backstage. I always point to that tragedy and make the comparison to "Austin 3:16", and look at is as a big "what if" scenario, where Vince still didn't take the chance on Steve Austin there because he didn't see it. He wasn't too high on John Cena, either. Two of his biggest workhorses and cash cows, and he didn't really like them too much. Was Ryder potentially a new one? What if he passed on those two like with Zack? Again, not saying Zack was guaranteed to be company carrying material, but he was one of the most over people on the roster for a time, and he was squandered about as badly as MCMG in TNA (most over tag team, and during that period of time they had like one canned promo and two matches in like a three month period).

The roster is simply full of bodies who aren't going to amount to much of anything unless and until there is another round of people who walk and compounded injuries. They always seem to go into some sort of "panic mode" every so often because they weren't assed to make many people look like credible threats with upward momentum. Top people from NXT become yet another face inside of two PPVs on their main roster arrivals. Laser focus on the search for the new Hogan, they are willing to look past all the Pipers, Savages, and Rick Rudes. Hell, I'd go so far as to say if you took the 80s roster and booked them like they would today, Hulk Hogan and Andre would be on every show in both a promo AND a match, and just about everyone else would barely be on TV.

Yeah, people generally go where the money is, but it isn't always just about money. If an AEW can actually offer guys competitive pay and and opportunity to become something other than just a body on the roster, it is a chance for a refreshing change of sorts - anyone who leaves the WWE machine has the chance to flourish elsewhere, and anyone who stays has x number less people in front of them for their potential push.