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Old 07-27-2019, 12:33 PM   #1681
Seanny One Ball
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Edge and Christian definitely were trying to be funny, Kurt and Stone Cold too.
The reason it was natural and in-character is that they were either ad libs or they were working within a structure rather than a whole pre-written speech from some writer.
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Old 07-27-2019, 12:44 PM   #1682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanny One Ball View Post
Edge and Christian definitely were trying to be funny, Kurt and Stone Cold too.
The reason it was natural and in-character is that they were either ad libs or they were working within a structure rather than a whole pre-written speech from some writer.
you took what I said too literally. I mean more it flowed naturally with who they were instead of them trying to be the "funny guy" with some lame, overly orchestrated gag or zinger.
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Old 07-27-2019, 03:51 PM   #1683
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I do not believe that they will progress or grow with PWG horse shit. There is a market for their shenanigans, but it won't sustain them long term. At some point, cuts will be made, at will be with the Bucks and Omega.
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Old 07-27-2019, 05:07 PM   #1684
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Originally Posted by The Dastardly One View Post
you took what I said too literally. I mean more it flowed naturally with who they were instead of them trying to be the "funny guy" with some lame, overly orchestrated gag or zinger.
Yeah that's fair, I was walking after I wrote that and thought "maybe he meant they weren't forcing it".

My apologies.
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Old 07-27-2019, 06:50 PM   #1685
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I always thought Santino was funny, too. He’s the only guy post 2000-ish who actually made me laugh with WWE comedy.
Yeah, when he put on a dress and was Santina I was all classic Santino. I miss those dayz.
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Old 07-27-2019, 06:51 PM   #1686
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Because men putting on a dress is funny.
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Old 07-27-2019, 07:18 PM   #1687
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Some people just enjoy that sort of thing.
I think we used to call them idiots.
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Old 07-27-2019, 07:19 PM   #1688
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Poofters
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Old 07-27-2019, 07:19 PM   #1689
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It was poofters
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Old 07-27-2019, 08:58 PM   #1690
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Personally, I’m more of a “stealing Jerry Lawler’s Subway” Santino fan but when he interviewed Santina via satellite and she kept answering his questions long after he’d been interrupted... that was pretty great. The guy was a natural entertainer. Probably the best comedy wrestler ever.
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Old 07-27-2019, 09:03 PM   #1691
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I said this before but I think the WWE Idol segment with Santino, William Regal, Ron Simmons, Lilian Garcia, and others might be the best standalone comedy segment WWE have ever done.
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Old 07-27-2019, 09:06 PM   #1692
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I have no idea what segment you’re talking about but Santino and Regal both being hilarious human beings makes me think you’re probably right.
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Old 07-27-2019, 09:31 PM   #1693
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Crappy quality but still funny. This also marked the official beginning of Santino's heel turn.
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Old 07-27-2019, 09:32 PM   #1694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Personally, I’m more of a “stealing Jerry Lawler’s Subway” Santino fan but when he interviewed Santina via satellite and she kept answering his questions long after he’d been interrupted... that was pretty great. The guy was a natural entertainer. Probably the best comedy wrestler ever.



A beautifully baited post.

A+
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Old 07-28-2019, 08:00 AM   #1695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
I have no idea what segment you’re talking about but Santino and Regal both being hilarious human beings makes me think you’re probably right.
I forgot to give Regal props for being one of the funniest people in wrestling.
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Old 07-28-2019, 12:13 PM   #1696
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I'm about to post a video which displays the worst kind of wrestling there is. And I will say that if AEW pushes this style, it will fail. There is an element of Lucha that has leaked it's way into our style here in the US, and even Japan. Now, I love Lucha Libre, I prefer it self contained because it is a totally different style and product than I grew up on with WWF, WCW, and ECW. Even the Lucha Libre in WCW was altered to fit into the psychology of a traditional American match.

If AEW keeps their women working like this, I can't support it. There are some good female workers out there, but not as many as a lot of the internet thinks. Tessa, Charlotte, Becky, Auska, Kairi Sane, Alexa... they can work work. They can come off as two people looking for a win. Most of the women's wrestling I see is slow motion choreography, a whole lot of effort for very little effect.

The way that people use Lucha to transition through a match is generally atrocious, as seen here.
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Old 07-28-2019, 03:38 PM   #1697
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That's what I was saying a week or so ago. They try and do this stuff but it looks like slow motion, because they haven't developed the skill to do it effortlessly as it's meant to be done.

That's why that style works when done right. Because a lot of it is based on speed and momentum. When you're doing it at half speed it just looks stupid. See: John Cena when he started trying to do Code Red/Yoshitonic
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Old 07-28-2019, 03:47 PM   #1698
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Also, Hikaru Shida might be the only one in AEW that's on the same level as Charlotte, Asuka, Io, Ember, Bianca, and Kairi. The women I feel are on another level from everyone else in ring.

That's why I was so bummed about WWE meeting with Stardom instead of AEW. AEW needs it a lot more. And a lot of the other Joshi promotions just aren't as good. They typically have a couple good workers and everyone else are 12 year olds. Stardom meanwhile, has entire stables of badass wrestlers and working with AEW would have really helped their women's division. Which absolutely needs help right now.
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Old 07-28-2019, 06:52 PM   #1699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan X View Post
I'm about to post a video which displays the worst kind of wrestling there is. And I will say that if AEW pushes this style, it will fail. There is an element of Lucha that has leaked it's way into our style here in the US, and even Japan. Now, I love Lucha Libre, I prefer it self contained because it is a totally different style and product than I grew up on with WWF, WCW, and ECW. Even the Lucha Libre in WCW was altered to fit into the psychology of a traditional American match.

If AEW keeps their women working like this, I can't support it. There are some good female workers out there, but not as many as a lot of the internet thinks. Tessa, Charlotte, Becky, Auska, Kairi Sane, Alexa... they can work work. They can come off as two people looking for a win. Most of the women's wrestling I see is slow motion choreography, a whole lot of effort for very little effect.

The way that people use Lucha to transition through a match is generally atrocious, as seen here.
Think it was Sasha Banks who explained why stuff like that tends to happen a lot in women's matches and why lucha style has become very influential in women's wrestling.

Its mostly just them over-thinking the big spots both out of fear of having the crowd quickly turn on them if they mess up and taking into account the possible skills gap between wrestlers. At least in WWE, a difference in booking mentality and match layout would also be a factor.

In regards to why that form of lucha has become very influential in women's wrestling, its pretty much because of how effective its been at generating big crowd pops and also because of the quality gap with traditional wrestling training between men and women.
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Old 07-28-2019, 07:24 PM   #1700
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Hopefully Sasha Banks goes the same route as Paige and just starts doing porn
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Old 07-29-2019, 01:46 AM   #1701
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They were practically house shows. That was intentional. They were both free for fucks sake. What do you want them to do? Blow their load on a charity event and have nothing left for the PPV and TV debut?
Why can’t they just put on good wrestling? Why does something need to be shit just because? And not charging for it is not an excuse to not try. And they didn’t charge for it because they couldn’t get away with it.

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Stop watching only the Young Bucks.

Seriously though, I get what you're saying and I can get behind some of it. They've had brawls n stuff too like Cody/Dustin so it's not like the Buck's style rules the roost. Got to have a little variation in the match type to reel in various types of fans and keep things fresh so it isn't a standard Raw tv match.
You don’t need to have your philosophy all over the map. It’s just not true. You don’t need an action film interrupted by a musical number. You just don’t need to do it. I’m more frustrated that they seem to know what is good and how that emotionally hooks people. But then they just...choose not too.

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Look, they've got word of mouth and more momentum behind them than anyone has ever seen since the deaths of WCW/ECW to counter WWF/E. Just enjoy the ride for now and see how far they can take this.
That’s by default though. And that’s what I’ve always supported about them. The Khans have got the money to actually do this. My concern is that when their stuff gets out there and let’s say it flops — we’ll have another period where it is only WWE. That is why it is heartbreaking to think about how WCW fucked up.

They’ve got this golden opportunity, and if they miss it, I’m worried that no one else is going to try. If they succeed, maybe someone else will invest and then we can get AEW vs. something else. Maybe something better or just something different?

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If the dude can entertain, put him on camera. If we can endure year after year of Hornswoggle antics/matches this guy should be given a shot to do something people have yet to see.
I don’t see how WWE doing something bad means we have to like it when someone else does something bad. I just don’t get that at all.

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Isn't all of this pure bullshit?
You can say that about anything though. Aren’t movies just bullshit? Guess we shouldn’t try and make a good one. Sorry if it sounds like I’m picking on you, but the apologetics for AEW coming off like a wannabe WWE in certain ways is pretty wild.

Shit like The Librarians, whatever the fuck that means, is easily as bad, possibly even worse, than WWE shit. It’s fucking atrocious. If that was a WWE gimmick, everyone would roast it and you know it.

I want them to do well. My fandom kind of needs them to. But I’m fucking terrified that they’re going to get the world watching and there will be lots of bad comedy and “look at us being too cool to try” shit and the first wave of reviews are going to be “more of the same.” People are forgetting that just having good wrestling is even possible.
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:30 AM   #1702
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How have people not realized that The Librarian stuff is a shot at WWE? Its supposed to suck and be like a WWE gimmick, that's the point.
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:48 AM   #1703
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How have people not realized that The Librarian stuff is a shot at WWE? Its supposed to suck and be like a WWE gimmick, that's the point.
That isn't overtly obvious, not at all. And even if it was, or is true, it doesn't excuse it. It's still bad. Why would you take up your time "tribute mocking" WWE with a gimmick that has no literal connection at all to WWE. I see how you are making it make sense to yourself but I think it's shit.
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:54 AM   #1704
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Even if that is the case, making part of your show suck intentionally and be a worse version of WWE just to take a “shot” at WWE doesn't exactly make it better. In fact, it’s much worse.
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:57 AM   #1705
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Oh. Jordan gets it.

WWE is bad because it’s basically become a bad parody of wrestling. Making a bad parody of a bad parody doesn’t cancel out the bad.
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Old 07-29-2019, 10:09 AM   #1706
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That isn't overtly obvious, not at all. And even if it was, or is true, it doesn't excuse it. It's still bad. Why would you take up your time "tribute mocking" WWE with a gimmick that has no literal connection at all to WWE. I see how you are making it make sense to yourself but I think it's shit.
Been pretty obvious I think. Especially the stuff they've done with it on BTE. Yeah it still sucks but that is kind of the point I believe. I don't get why they feel like they have to take shots at WWE but they do.
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Old 07-29-2019, 10:29 AM   #1707
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Been pretty obvious I think. Especially the stuff they've done with it on BTE. Yeah it still sucks but that is kind of the point I believe. I don't get why they feel like they have to take shots at WWE but they do.
I don't watch every BTE, more than half I'd say. I don't care about The Librarians anymore from seeing them there vs the AEW shows we've seen so far.

I was one of the few that loved the Cody hammering the throne. I thought it was more Game of Thrones than WWE, but that was just my perception. I wish that would have been "it", as far as mentioning WWE.
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Old 07-29-2019, 10:36 AM   #1708
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I thought the throne thing was the dumbest spot they've done yet. Good thing Cody and Dustin delivered after it because it came out of nowhere and took me away from the match about to happen.
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Old 07-29-2019, 11:35 AM   #1709
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Onto another criticism...

I am quite doubtful that anyone will be able to sell out NBA arena's right now, consistently with pro wrestling. I am understanding of the DC Venue, it's the first show and it should sell out but I think they will run into a lot of places they can't pull over 2,000 for a TV show. I could be wrong but I wish AEW would seek out the Walters Pyrmid's of the country before doing what WWE does and selling 3,000 tickets in a 15,000 seat venue.
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Old 07-29-2019, 12:00 PM   #1710
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I think 3-5k arenas would be a good fit for AEW right now.

Daily's Place looked great on camera with only 5k fans for Fight For The Fallen and I think doing the show in more amphitheaters is a possible idea to pursue for AEW.
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Old 07-29-2019, 12:06 PM   #1711
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Ticket prices for first TV episode revealed. Cheapest seat is $20 and most expensive is ringside $250 + commemorative chair.
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Old 07-29-2019, 12:07 PM   #1712
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I agree and its been reported that they are looking at doing 6000-12000 seat venues I believe. With the premier and other markets bring an exception.
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Old 07-29-2019, 02:24 PM   #1713
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Excellent Hire
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Old 07-29-2019, 06:04 PM   #1714
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Quote:
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I think 3-5k arenas would be a good fit for AEW right now.

Daily's Place looked great on camera with only 5k fans for Fight For The Fallen and I think doing the show in more amphitheaters is a possible idea to pursue for AEW.
I think they could draw well in large arenas in the Northeast (Philly Baltimore DC Boston etc,).

I'd love them to come to my city the local arena can hold 5,000 and used to sell out for WCW Nitro and Thunder but it's small so it'd depend on the size of the tv set stage
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Old 07-29-2019, 07:39 PM   #1715
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Quote:
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How have people not realized that The Librarian stuff is a shot at WWE? Its supposed to suck and be like a WWE gimmick, that's the point.
Its also rumored to have another reason for its existence.

Been speculated ever since the gimmick debuted that the payoff is going to be Marty Scurll breaking the Librarians fingers to be his official debut in AEW and the end of that gimmick. The most annoying part of the gimmick is them using their finger to shush everyone and the thing Marty likes the most is breaking fingers of people he hates.
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Old 07-29-2019, 08:21 PM   #1716
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I think they could draw well in large arenas in the Northeast (Philly Baltimore DC Boston etc,).

I'd love them to come to my city the local arena can hold 5,000 and used to sell out for WCW Nitro and Thunder but it's small so it'd depend on the size of the tv set stage
What city?
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Old 07-29-2019, 08:22 PM   #1717
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Its also rumored to have another reason for its existence.

Been speculated ever since the gimmick debuted that the payoff is going to be Marty Scurll breaking the Librarians fingers to be his official debut in AEW and the end of that gimmick. The most annoying part of the gimmick is them using their finger to shush everyone and the thing Marty likes the most is breaking fingers of people he hates.
That would be huge tbh and if they go that way then I can suffer through it. But he's gotta break both her fingers and his!
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Old 07-29-2019, 08:46 PM   #1718
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Quote:
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Why can’t they just put on good wrestling? Why does something need to be shit just because? And not charging for it is not an excuse to not try. And they didn’t charge for it because they couldn’t get away with it.



You don’t need to have your philosophy all over the map. It’s just not true. You don’t need an action film interrupted by a musical number. You just don’t need to do it. I’m more frustrated that they seem to know what is good and how that emotionally hooks people. But then they just...choose not too.



That’s by default though. And that’s what I’ve always supported about them. The Khans have got the money to actually do this. My concern is that when their stuff gets out there and let’s say it flops — we’ll have another period where it is only WWE. That is why it is heartbreaking to think about how WCW fucked up.

They’ve got this golden opportunity, and if they miss it, I’m worried that no one else is going to try. If they succeed, maybe someone else will invest and then we can get AEW vs. something else. Maybe something better or just something different?



I don’t see how WWE doing something bad means we have to like it when someone else does something bad. I just don’t get that at all.



You can say that about anything though. Aren’t movies just bullshit? Guess we shouldn’t try and make a good one. Sorry if it sounds like I’m picking on you, but the apologetics for AEW coming off like a wannabe WWE in certain ways is pretty wild.

Shit like The Librarians, whatever the fuck that means, is easily as bad, possibly even worse, than WWE shit. It’s fucking atrocious. If that was a WWE gimmick, everyone would roast it and you know it.

I want them to do well. My fandom kind of needs them to. But I’m fucking terrified that they’re going to get the world watching and there will be lots of bad comedy and “look at us being too cool to try” shit and the first wave of reviews are going to be “more of the same.” People are forgetting that just having good wrestling is even possible.
Alot to unpack here and I'm on mobile so I'm not going to hit on everything.

I thought the last two show were really good and they did it without blowing anything to be used for All Out or TNT. They just needed to keep people talking about them heading up to their big events. It was fine. Why were either of them bad?

If they blow this then yes, it will be "only" WWE again until someone else decides to invest money into a wrestling promotion. I hope Bash is still alive.
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Old 07-29-2019, 08:53 PM   #1719
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How have people not realized that The Librarian stuff is a shot at WWE? Its supposed to suck and be like a WWE gimmick, that's the point.
I'll let #1-wwf-fan handle this much more eloquently than me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Even if that is the case, making part of your show suck intentionally and be a worse version of WWE just to take a “shot” at WWE doesn't exactly make it better. In fact, it’s much worse.
Exactly. Being shit on purpose is still being shit. Fuck that shit.

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Been pretty obvious I think. Especially the stuff they've done with it on BTE. Yeah it still sucks but that is kind of the point I believe. I don't get why they feel like they have to take shots at WWE but they do.
I'm not watching BTE. I find their personalities largely obnoxious. I want to watch wrestling. If the wrestling doesn't explain it, and the explanation itself isn't good, then fuck it. The onus is not on fans to go out of their way to understand what is trying to be conveyed.

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I thought the throne thing was the dumbest spot they've done yet. Good thing Cody and Dustin delivered after it because it came out of nowhere and took me away from the match about to happen.
The throne spot was fine. Symbolism that tied in who Cody is to his AEW gimmick and what AEW is representing. Perfectly fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat View Post
Its also rumored to have another reason for its existence.

Been speculated ever since the gimmick debuted that the payoff is going to be Marty Scurll breaking the Librarians fingers to be his official debut in AEW and the end of that gimmick. The most annoying part of the gimmick is them using their finger to shush everyone and the thing Marty likes the most is breaking fingers of people he hates.
That's awful. The finger breaking spot is dumb in itself. Also, having a long set-up to an awful punchline that also has a guy breaking a woman's fingers because she's annoying is pretty trashy.

As far as venues go:

I'm fine with them going wherever they can fill up. Part of the appeal of AEW's potential is that they are a promotion with the capital behind it to fill arenas. That makes it different to TNA or ROH or New Japan. It changes the perception of the promotion instantly and almost changes the medium. And I think that is going to betray itself more and more as certain guys prove they can work larger arenas whereas some guys are small, intimate space guys.
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Old 07-29-2019, 08:57 PM   #1720
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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Alot to unpack here and I'm on mobile so I'm not going to hit on everything.

I thought the last two show were really good and they did it without blowing anything to be used for All Out or TNT. They just needed to keep people talking about them heading up to their big events. It was fine. Why were either of them bad?

If they blow this then yes, it will be "only" WWE again until someone else decides to invest money into a wrestling promotion. I hope Bash is still alive.
The Librarians stuff is bad because it's an awful and childish attempt at comedy, way too similar to WWE. Feels very rinky dink too. Why are there even libarians in a wrestling promotion? Why are they enemies and not friends but still closely associated? Why have they been hired by Tony Khan and/or the EVPs? Why would this shit make television? There's so much that just doesn't make sense, and I am sick of wrestling just not making sense. It's really frustrating that this is so normalized and internalized within wrestling personalities today. That shit is seriously embarrassing and I am sick of wrestling being embarrassing, because I want it to be good and people to actually watch it.
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