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Old 07-26-2021, 07:43 PM   #60721
Damian Rey 2.0
 
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They are in dire need of babyfaces for both shows right now and one guy they could protect and push is Keith Lee. Don’t why they won’t.
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Old 07-26-2021, 07:54 PM   #60722
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Keith Lee is incredibly lovable and turning him heel makes no sense. I'm still not over Sami Zayn's turn. I for one do not care for his conspiracy nut character. But as long as he's making a real world impact...
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Old 07-26-2021, 09:21 PM   #60723
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Damien Sandow could have been better than he was, but there was a limit. He didn’t really “get it” and even if they had jammed him down our throats, he would have just been another guy jammed down our throats.
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Old 07-26-2021, 09:40 PM   #60724
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Watched the MLW Battle Riot battle royal from this weekend. Basically it’s a 40 man Royal Rumble with pins and submissions. Winner gets a title shot anytime anywhere. Holy shit what an overbooked clusterfuck of nonsense. But kinda fun. Savio Vega pulled double duty as himself and as Kwang. Theyve got some black luchador who did like 7 Kofi elimination saving spots in one match. The ring was constantly too crowded so nobody could get their spots in cleanly. They’ve got this guy EJ Nduka who is an absolute monster. The winner stabbed the monster heel multiple times with a spike.
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Old 07-26-2021, 10:05 PM   #60725
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Getting Botchamania videos as recommendations in my YouTube feed. Like, fuck off, man.
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Old 07-26-2021, 10:54 PM   #60726
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have never heard the audio of this clip before


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Old 07-26-2021, 10:59 PM   #60727
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Audio? It’s the video dawg.
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Old 07-27-2021, 12:22 AM   #60728
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I kind of feel sorry for Meltzer. I suppose he probably has a lot of money though.
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Old 07-27-2021, 12:29 AM   #60729
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The Bucks should've renamed their flippy finisher after he creepily objectified female wrestlers for getting surgery.
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Old 07-27-2021, 12:41 AM   #60730
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Quote:
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The Bucks should've renamed their flippy finisher after he creepily objectified female wrestlers for getting surgery.
The Young Bucks shouldn’t have named their finish after him in the first place. Man you’re bad at this.
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Old 07-27-2021, 12:48 AM   #60731
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I remember that brief period when the bucks moved up to heavyweight in njpw, and actually put effort in to telling better stories in their matches rather than just doing moves.

Damn. What could have been.
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Old 07-27-2021, 12:50 AM   #60732
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Quote:
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I remember that brief period when the bucks moved up to heavyweight in njpw, and actually put effort in to telling better stories in their matches rather than just doing moves.

Damn. What could have been.
I saw one match, and I can’t remember who it was against, but one of them tried to sell an injury getting in the way of a springboard. The crowd LAUGHED. They’re not very good.
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Old 07-27-2021, 01:18 AM   #60733
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Quote:
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I thought Sandow as the intellectual savior was a good gimmick. He won MITB and I thought he’s gonna be decent B show heel champ on smackdown for a while. Then the wwe decided to unite the world and wwe titles before Sandow cashed in and that was the end of any chance he had at being a world champion lol.
I honestly thought they dropped the boat with him holding the MITB case, but Cody Rhodes taking the contract out of it and using it before Sandow realized he was just carrying around an empty gimmick case. It seemed like they were teasing something like that, then it just went away. Maybe that title unification had something to do with that? I wonder...
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Old 07-27-2021, 01:37 AM   #60734
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Quote:
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They are in dire need of babyfaces for both shows right now and one guy they could protect and push is Keith Lee. Don’t why they won’t.
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Keith Lee is incredibly lovable and turning him heel makes no sense. I'm still not over Sami Zayn's turn. I for one do not care for his conspiracy nut character. But as long as he's making a real world impact...
You're talking about the same company that had Brodus Clay cut that promo where he says he's a new monster and he'll "destroy all your heroes" then shows up a few weeks later dressed like a cross between LL Cool J and RUN DMC in the 80s. The same company New Day had to repeatedly BEG to turn heel when the original incarnation (read: Vince's vision) for the gimmick was absolute death. They only started gaining steam once they became disingenuous heels instead of playing the nebulous concept of "positivity" straight (and also missed the opportunity to educate newer fans on The Freebird Rule, which I think was mentioned on TV all of ONCE outside of being listed as one of the ingredients on their box of cereal before there was actual cereal and it was just a packaging vector for the t-shirts). The same company that thought people would buy Jinder Mahal as a legit main event threat in a total of three weeks after constantly being the ass end of a joke for years. A company who FINALLY had the good sense to turn Roman heel years after it would have first made sense to do so and they'd have been reaping the benefits of their big star ages ago instead of finally pulling that trigger with this Tribal Chief business after they almost have nobody left at the top.

WWE will do whatever bullshit they think is a great idea, wheather it actually is or isn't, then usually blame the talent when it's revealed it actually wasn't a good idea... and then when they get serendipitous gold dumped on their lap, like being in the throes of the Ryder Revolution, The Summer of Punk, The YES! Movement, or the pre-Stephanie co-opted Divas Revolution, they decide to go in a different direction.

And I say that as a guy who is still not super high on Keith Lee personally. I still can't not picture him as anyone else other than the other big guy in RoH teaming with Shane Taylor. Even with my own bias, I see there is *something* there that the crowds apparently want to see, and I don't understand how WWE has yet to pick up on that.
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Old 07-27-2021, 02:17 AM   #60735
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Because Vince doesn’t care. It is logical to protect a handful of wrestlers on the roster in all divisions so that you have gatekeepers and guys ready to be elevated if they break out or there’s suddenly a need or injury. Vince doesn’t think that way. Nobody other than Roman and Lashley are special. Nobody gets ahead or goes on a tear.

The Sandow and more recently Otis MITB wins is a prime example of Vince just making a decision with no long term plan hashed out. They gave Sandow the MITB and 3 months later burned his cash in to lose to Cena, who was feuding with Randy Orton again to unify the titles. 3 months. They booked Sandow to win MITB and in three months they punted because the decision to give him the briefcase was done without actually having a game plan of how to use it.

Otis was a mistake from day one. Nobody in their right mind viewed him as a champion. At least not the top champion the show. But whatever. He gets the briefcase, he loses it, and now he’s clean shaven and playing Chad Gable’s muscle as they both circle the toilet that is the WWE midcard.

A year ago Otis was heavily featured and a seemingly popular babyface who’s greatest career accomplishment prob ruined any chance he had at elevating it celebrating himself.
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Old 07-27-2021, 03:38 AM   #60736
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Some of the anti-WWE bias has basis, another part of it is all myth. I mean, you can say that no one other than Reigns and Lashley is special, but Lashley is a relatively new thing for them. He was US/IC Title level last year. Occasional opponent for Drew. Reigns has been pushed, but his heel turn happened only about a year ago didn’t it?

There’s a period of time where the WWE didn’t want stars. They don’t want to hand talent the cache to be able to value themselves. The irony of that is that when there is a mindless millionaire throwing money around, there is that chance for talent to go elsewhere. And at some point you do need stars.

I thought the XFL would necessitate the WWE getting more of their ducks in the row. And prior to WrestleMania, it actually did seem like that with Drew. But Covid changed those plans, and they’re only getting back into things now.

You’d THINK they’d want stars now. You can kind of see it with Roman, Lashley, Drew, The Usos and Big E. Maybe a few others. But their programming largely sucks, so who knows how effective it will be?
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Old 07-27-2021, 08:24 AM   #60737
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Thoughts on Roman and Lashley only being "stars" because of the lack of other stars or the absence of a few (i.e. Cena).


They've absolutely made Lashley look like a beast, no question. Roman talks a lotta shit, but still seems the same boring superman punching ooooh-aaahhhing shield guy.


Still find Roman boring, if I am being 100% honest. He's just a boring asshole now.
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Old 07-27-2021, 01:08 PM   #60738
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RIP Super Porky
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Old 07-27-2021, 01:29 PM   #60739
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Was just coming on here to post that. I remember first watching Porky like 20 years ago. Great character.
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Old 07-27-2021, 02:20 PM   #60740
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Quote:
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The Sandow and more recently Otis MITB wins is a prime example of Vince just making a decision with no long term plan hashed out.
He’s been doing this for quite a while now. It’s clear he values “shock” over storytelling and character development. Zack Ryder winning the IC Title at WM a few years ago just to lose it the next night was another prime example. As is the Royal Rumble winner constantly being the secondary title contender. (Remember Shinsuke Nakamura eliminating Roman Reigns to win the rumble? Lol)

For all Vince’s faults it’s weird to see him do that. Constantly going with the “WTF” moment instead of using those moments to build actual stars seems like such an amateur wrestling booker practice.
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Old 07-27-2021, 02:26 PM   #60741
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If this Vince were around in ‘87 Andre would have beaten Hogan clean at WM 3 and right after the pinfall there would just be 5 minutes of crowd shots.
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Old 07-27-2021, 02:56 PM   #60742
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RIP Super Porky
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Old 07-27-2021, 03:09 PM   #60743
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Ok I totally forgot how good Palmer Cannon was in this role.
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Old 07-27-2021, 04:18 PM   #60744
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Old 07-27-2021, 04:27 PM   #60745
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Old 07-27-2021, 04:34 PM   #60746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
If this Vince were around in ‘87 Andre would have beaten Hogan clean at WM 3 and right after the pinfall there would just be 5 minutes of crowd shots.
If Hogan/Andre was happening now, the crowd would be cheering Andre and booing Hogan and crying that only one guy gets to look good.

Zack Ryder winning the IC Title was awful. I know that was just a random example, but that was the talent not knowing what is good or not and all pushing for Ryder to win the match.

Quote:
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That’s the AEW textbook right there.
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Old 07-27-2021, 04:40 PM   #60747
Bad News Gertner
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I've hated that excuse forever. There's ALWAYS going to be something else on,
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Old 07-27-2021, 04:42 PM   #60748
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1.81 million for RAW this week

635k viewers were aged 18-49 in the ever infamous tweener known as 'The Demo'
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Old 07-27-2021, 04:57 PM   #60749
drave
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Those darn tootin Olympians!




Seriously, on one of the more recent Fan Council questionnaires, the WWE wanted to know if there was any interest in having any current gold medalists on WWE TV.
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Old 07-27-2021, 05:00 PM   #60750
slik
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The Olympics had 13 million viewers last night on NBC so I could see it
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Old 07-27-2021, 05:02 PM   #60751
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Please refer to the aforementioned flow chart, sir.
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Old 07-27-2021, 05:02 PM   #60752
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And then see the follow up from COO Gertner, advising on the facts.
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Old 07-27-2021, 05:41 PM   #60753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Gertner of TPWW View Post
I've hated that excuse forever. There's ALWAYS going to be something else on,
Yeah, “people would rather watch something else” always gets me a little miffed.
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Old 07-27-2021, 05:52 PM   #60754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
If Hogan/Andre was happening now, the crowd would be cheering Andre and booing Hogan and crying that only one guy gets to look good.
No. Because the crowd would be made up of a healthy mainstream audience that enjoys what they’re seeing and is rooting for what the company has successfully made them root for.

This “blame the audience” thing would be mind-blowingly dumb for any form of entertainment. WWE is no different. It’s weird that people have latched on to it.
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Old 07-27-2021, 06:06 PM   #60755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
Zack Ryder winning the IC Title was awful. I know that was just a random example, but that was the talent not knowing what is good or not and all pushing for Ryder to win the match.
Who exactly pushed for Ryder to win the match and what dirt did they have on Vince to force him to book it?
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Old 07-27-2021, 06:33 PM   #60756
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Originally Posted by Slik View Post
You know how the old saying goes. Once a Money Mark, always a Money Mark
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Old 07-27-2021, 07:49 PM   #60757
Damian Rey 2.0
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
No. Because the crowd would be made up of a healthy mainstream audience that enjoys what they’re seeing and is rooting for what the company has successfully made them root for.

This “blame the audience” thing would be mind-blowingly dumb for any form of entertainment. WWE is no different. It’s weird that people have latched on to it.
lol blaming the audience what a shitty cop out. If the product was good and the wrestlers were booked to be better than 50/50 and they actually built up guys siii when they won it meant something, the audience would take it.
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Old 07-27-2021, 11:25 PM   #60758
Tom Guycott
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
If this Vince were around in ‘87 Andre would have beaten Hogan clean at WM 3 and right after the pinfall there would just be 5 minutes of crowd shots.
... then Hogan would get his win back on the next Saturday Night's Main Event on free TV.
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Old 07-27-2021, 11:34 PM   #60759
Lock Jaw
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Old 07-28-2021, 12:03 AM   #60760
Damian Rey 2.0
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
... then Hogan would get his win back on the next Saturday Night's Main Event on free TV.
They would then trade wins at the next 3 ppvs while also seeing action against each other in various tag matches
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