Title Discussion Thread

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by ColdwaVer But consider what it was that Bischoff said, and his reasons for awarding the title to HHH. While he was spouting off about disputing the Undisputed Title, he said that HHH was the last one to hold the World Title before the unification, therefore he was giving it back to him. That would seem to me that he was reinstating the World title that previous to Survivor Series '01 been the WCW title. This differs from the matter of SD's tag title belts because those belts have neither the appearance nor name of the WCW world titles, and nobody has ever said anything to connect them to the WCW titles. The point of Bischoff's administrative power is a storyline point, so it doesn't really affect which title is which. When it comes right down to it, this is sports entertainment and not actual competition, so belts are really just props. Bischoff didn't really come up with the idea of having a champion exclusive to Raw, that was decided by the creative team (actually wasn't it HHH and Stephanie's idea?) Physical appearances of belts do make a bit of a difference, so it should also be mentioned that when the World Title came to Raw, the design of the Undisputed/now WWE belt was changed. You could say that it was now disputed by HHH's belt, but I think it more likely that it was due to the fact that half of the title's value had been extracted.

Obviosuly when talking about this we all know wrestling is a work and trying to figure things like this out is difficult when they themsleves dont care about the history of the titles. However, some people do like to track the history of the titles in a sports manner. Its a little crazy at times, but hey nobody on here claimed to be 100% sane.

The main reason I dont think the RAW title carries the WCW title lineage is because of the storyline power involved. WCW as a brand was dead, so unless they restarted a WCW brand, you cant take a WCW title from an existing championship. You can get your hands on a similar looking title, but that doesn't mean you get to claim lineage. Yes Bischoff said HHH was the last guy to hold the (physical) big gold belt, that was just a storyline reason to hand him the title. I dont see where it gives Bischoff the right to arbitralily take away part of the lineage of the other title.

I mean say I started a promotion, and I somehow got a hold of the old WWF Title that Austin, Rock and HHH traded in the late 90s. Could I then claim my championship dates back to Buddy Rogers and Bruno Sammartino?

Now, I realize this is different because its all WWE, but like I said, there was no WCW to remove that part of the Undisputed Championship. Furthermore, there was no match that Brock missed in order to justify stripping half of his title.

And you made my point with the SD tag belts. Since they are called the "WWE" tag titles, doesn't that mean they have the lineage of the WWF tag titles and RAW has the lineage of the WCW tag belts? I mean that would be the logical next step if we are to say the RAW title is the WCW title. But again you seem to go back to the fact that the physical belts look different, which is meaningless when talking about lineage. And since they never claim the SD tag titles have any history beyond the tourny in '02, then thats how I see the RAW title.

Bottom line is that nobody beat Brock to take part of his Undisputed title, he didn't miss a match that he was scheduled to wrestle in, and therefore just because another "promotion" creates a new World Title, that doesn't automatically mean they get lineage rights.