PART 1 - Do you agree or disagree with the following paragraphs?

[Loose Cannon]

Yes, Agree with the Angle/Taker thing.

For me it's not so much that HHH never Jobs, it's that he jobs, gets somebody over and then gets the Title back, usually by making the guy that beat him, job to him. So you can say he's helping in one way, but in another, he's hurting superstars. And usually, when he does a job, it's eathier.

A) not a singles match

B) It's never clean (always some bullshit in the match)

He takes away superstars credibility when he gets the Title back again. It's like he doesn't understand what "pass the torch" means. Orton was right in line for that and then they turn him face and just fuck up as bad as you can fuck up after that.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon Yes, Agree with the Angle/Taker thing. For me it's not so much that HHH never Jobs, it's that he jobs, gets somebody over and then gets the Title back, usually by making the guy that beat him, job to him. So you can say he's helping in one way, but in another, he's hurting superstars. And usually, when he does a job, it's eathier. A) not a singles match He takes away superstars credibility when he gets the Title back again. It's like he doesn't understand what "pass the torch" means. Orton was right in line for that and then they turn him face and just fuck up as bad as you can fuck up after that.

Good post. I see what you're saying. Just a couple of things though:

a) Did Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit, and Randy Orton *really* lose THAT much credibility when THEIR world title ultimately went back to Triple H?

b) Assuming that guys like Benoit and Orton DID lose some credibility, are they at the point where it's IMPOSSIBLE to regain that credibility? (i.e. become credible world champions again sometime in the future).

B) It's never clean (always some bullshit in the match)

True (for the most part), but you can't ignore the FACT that Triple H tapped CLEANLY to Benoit at Mania'....but we'll not worry about this for right now.

While it's true that Triple H rarely ever jobs clean, it's not like Triple H ABSOLUTELY SQUASHES guys when he wins back his title(s) (atleast in the last few years).

-When he got the title back from Goldberg, it was via triple threat match (where he pinned Kane if I'm not mistaken).

-Against HBK (in a 2/3 falls match, HBK got one of those pinfalls if I remember correctly).

-Against Randy Orton at Unforgiven, it took MAJOR Flair and Batista interference for Triple H to regain the title.

It's like he doesn't understand what "pass the torch" means. Orton was right in line for that and then they turn him face and just fuck up as bad as you can fuck up after that.

I agree with the Orton thing. IMO - the WWE missed a GOLDEN opportunity to push Orton as a major main-event heel (however - it's not like Orton can't be a major main-event heel...or face somewhere down the road I guess).

I think one reason why the WWE elected to turn Orton face instead of Triple H, was because Triple H has failed as a face in the past.

At the same time - It would've been a TERRIBLE move on the WWE's part to have Triple H continue to be heel without the world title.


In terms of Triple H "passing the torch", I still think the guy is great. As long as he (on meaningful occassions) elevates certain superstars at crucial time periods, then what more can we ask of him? (at the risk of killing the "novelty" of defeating Triple H).



p.s. Here's an early PREDICTION: Triple H will job cleanly at Wrestlemania to either Benoit, Orton, or even Benjamin.....on a one-on-one singles match.