Triple H injures neck at RAW

[Jaded-Dragon]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight The thing is, there are so many scapegoats, and they're free to sit on their asses and blame those internet smarks, or the cyclical nature of the business, or the fact that Mercury's in retrograde, or the economy, or the fact that Vince got VD from a 12year old fillipino boy... Look at it this way: The music industry and movie industry have both attacked the internet as the source of their sales and piracy issues. They don't even have a son-in-law issue, they're just blaming an easy target instead of addressing the real issues. I doubt many people in the WWE want to admit that Triple H is not a draw. That's like screaming "DIE MOTHERFUCKER" at the PResident and then charging...You'll get taken down, possibly out. OF cours,e one's career suicide and the other's just plain suicide, but you get the point. The fact that the WWE is so much an old boy's club with favorites and politics makes it easier to look for excuses.

True. But it's still suicide on a business level for Vince to let it go on and on. They just keep pushing Triple H as their top draw, and no one is buying it. I would figure that it has gotten to a point where a line would have to be drawn, but I guess that would make too much sense for the WWE.

Either way, you're right. It's all about picking the easiest scapegoat and blaming it, rather than addressing the actual problem.

[Kane Knight]

Yeah, he left the company saying that Triple H was poison or summat.

[John la Rock]

Originally Posted by Jaded-Dragon . He hasn't had an entertaining match since Benoit at No Mercy.

Ok I agree that HHH has been hogging the main-event scene but this is just stupid!

That's like saying Kurt Angle hasn't had an entertaining match since 2000.

Probably the mosty ignorant thing I have ever heard in this forum

[Marcyo]

Originally Posted by John la Rock Probably the mosty ignorant thing I have ever heard in this forum

Well...

The Rock = Definition of sexiness by Cockgurl is a strong contender.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by John la Rock Ok I agree that HHH has been hogging the main-event scene but this is just stupid! That's like saying Kurt Angle hasn't had an entertaining match since 2000. Probably the mosty ignorant thing I have ever heard in this forum

Why, because someone isn't as entertained by Triple H as you?

It's not ignorant to say he hasn't had an entertaining match since No Mercy, it's an opinion based on someone's values of entertainment.

[PureHatred]

Well, if he [Jadd-Dragon]actually means that Triple H's last good match was against Benoit at No Mercy in 2000, I'd blast him too. Becuase you're ignoring both Foley matches, the 2/3 Falls special stipulations match against Austin, and any of his recent matches with HBK. I mean, be reasonable there, Dragon.

If he means that Trips last good match was against Benoit at Vengeance last year, thats actually a fairly arguable point.

[John la Rock]

also vs Taker at WM X-Seven, the tag match where he tore his quad, vs Flair in Flair country, Triple Threat at WM XX and Backlash, etc. also I thought his match with Batista was great

[John la Rock]

hopefully he meant Vengence

[olympic hitman]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight It's crystal clear if you're two people. You keep redefining what you said when challenged on it. It'd be easier if you just admitted you were clueless and moved on, but hey, I don't care. Every time you create one of your masterpiece whine fests, I amuse myself for another 45 seconds...

First off, I've never had "whine fests" and I'm not quite sure how you arrived at that conclusion

Secondly, I have to redefine what I'm saying because people try to twist my logic around. I said I would disrespect Trips if he indeed was the one keeping himself at the top[which becomes more apparent each time he appears on RAW, as the focus stays on him]. However, my sole point for arguing AGAINST calling Trips a "politician" was because it may not be ALL his fault. I'm sure Steph & Vinnie Mac are just as much to blame as good ole Hunter himself for his ridiculously insanely long title reigns[which I DON'T agree with when people like Christian, Edge, and Shelton haven't even had their FIRST title reigns].

Originally Posted by PureHatred "Patterson's decision to resign was the result of his being willing to point out to Vince McMahon what many wrestling fans have been saying for years...the mega-push of McMahon son-in-law Triple H is killing the RAW brand. He said to McMahon, in short that HHH's mega-push overshadows RAW to the detriment of the other characters. Patterson, said as so many others have said, that if a greater variety of characters and storylines were fully developed, it would benefit business. Patterson gave his opinions after traveling to several RAW house shows, with McMahon NOT being willing to hear Patterson's side of the story....."

What more proof do you need? I'm tellin' ya, it's not ALL Trips's fault. Vince seems to have some agenda for keeping Triple H at the top. His motives[besides being Trip's father-in-law] are unknown. This was my point throughout this entire thing. While it seems as though Triple H is completely to blame for his character, Vince still has the final say-so. So, you cannot blame one man for the end result of an entire team[probably mostly consisting of HHH marks].

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Jaded-Dragon True. But it's still suicide on a business level for Vince to let it go on and on. They just keep pushing Triple H as their top draw, and no one is buying it. I would figure that it has gotten to a point where a line would have to be drawn, but I guess that would make too much sense for the WWE. Either way, you're right. It's all about picking the easiest scapegoat and blaming it, rather than addressing the actual problem.

It's all about the blame and how you lay it
It's all about control and if you can fake it
It's all about the piss and who's gonna take it
Coz while Steph is my bitch and I'm gonna fake it
I am the game you can never blame me
I am control long as I let Vince take me...

Rinse and repeat.

[Kane Knight]

Peopl;e aren't twisting your words, you're too stupid to say what you mean, or yo're dumb enough to think you can backtrack after you get called on your retarded shit.

[PureHatred]

Originally Posted by John la Rock hopefully he meant Vengence

He probably meant Vengeance.

[PureHatred]

olympic hitman, maybe you should see use smaller responses. Because you're shit at conveying what you actually mean when you create these ong rambling ones.

Plus, you keep contradicitng yourself. You argue tha tTrips is on top of Raw because he's BY FAR the best talent on the roster, and then a few posts later you're talking about all the other guys that should be given a shot. Make up you mind. Or don't post. Or Admit when you're wrong or you've re-thought your position. Or don't post.

Whatever.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by PureHatred don't post.

[olympic hitman]

Want smaller posts that express my thoughts? Fine;

I said Trips was by far "The best" on RAW because he is being PUT OVER as the best. I have implied this several times throughout,but, I guess I had to spell it out.

I'm also not naive. Trips probably does want to stay at the top as much as Vince & Steph wanna keep him there. I was simply arguing against laying all the blame on HHH. Clearly, it's a conspiracy and not a one-man effort[as many have said in this post].

My view hasn't changed throughout this entire post so, how can I be back-tracking? Indeed

[PureHatred]

Putting those smiley faces at the end of your posts doesn't mean you're not a jack ass.

Although that last post was the most coherent thing you've written in this entire thread.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Purehatred don't post.

[PureHatred]

You're right, Vince as the CEO deserves as much blame or more so than Triple H for the condition of the product. But it somehow seems worse that Trips does it because, while Vince is making bad decisions based on his honest judgment of what best for the WWE, Triple H basically doesn't give a damn what's good for the WWE, he's only concerned with what's good for him.

It's the difference between accidentally committing manslaughter and committing murder with previous forethought. OR..Vince is fucking up, Triple H is being a fuck.

[olympic hitman]

Originally Posted by PureHatred Putting those smiley faces at the end of your posts doesn't mean you're not a jack ass. Although that last post was the most coherent thing you've written in this entire thread.

It may be the most coherent thing[in your view], but, it's basically a shortened version of what I've been saying all along.

Calling me a "jackass" was a nice touch too, which proves my point about respect around here; no one respects anyone around here. Honestly, did calling me a "jackass" make you feel better? I bet you're a real trooper and nice guy Bet your imaginary friends think so too huh? Well, I'm not like you. I'm not gonna take childish shots at anyone. I actually have something RELEVANT to say, oh well, it's an impossible situation anyway, so, why bother

[Kane Knight]

Dude. Why are you so concerned with respect anyway?

And if you are, why did you go out of your way to blow all of it.

[olympic hitman]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Dude. Why are you so concerned with respect anyway? And if you are, why did you go out of your way to blow all of it.

I, personally, don't care about respect. However, my opinions are what I insist on being respected. Seems everytime I post, there are tens of people here hell-bent on calling me names for me posting my OPINION.

And I've not "blown" anything, especially any respect, seeing as most posters that have flamed me have no honor to begin with. I don't know how things work around TPWW forums[as I'm new], but, at other boards, people actually respect each other's opinions without flaming them for what they choose to think[even though you may not agree with it]. I've been here a little over a week[maybe close to two] and have been flamed for my opinion over-and-over. If you disagree with my logic, go back and quote me and explain how you disagree and why.

To quote me and call me names is very unimaginative and pretty much irrelavent to the topic, after all isn't the purpose of replying to actually add your thoughts on a certain issue?

[Kane Knight]

If you don't care about respect, don't complain that you don't get any.

Jesus, is it that fucking hard to figure out? You keep posting to tell us you don't care about this or that, and it's even dumber when you complain about something.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by PureHatred You're right, Vince as the CEO deserves as much blame or more so than Triple H for the condition of the product. But it somehow seems worse that Trips does it because, while Vince is making bad decisions based on his honest judgment of what best for the WWE, Triple H basically doesn't give a damn what's good for the WWE, he's only concerned with what's good for him. It's the difference between accidentally committing manslaughter and committing murder with previous forethought. OR..Vince is fucking up, Triple H is being a fuck.

Vince is basically taking bad advice.

Triple H is one of the main suppliers of said bad advice.

Just to give your analogy another look.

I'm sure that Hitman will take this as "proof" that I'm agreeing Triple H isn't 100% to blame, but that's an irrelvent point his twisted mind game up to defend himself against the whole concept of Trips using backstage politics to keep himself on top and hurt the business.

[olympic hitman]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight If you don't care about respect, don't complain that you don't get any. Jesus, is it that fucking hard to figure out? You keep posting to tell us you don't care about this or that, and it's even dumber when you complain about something.

Ohh, I'm SO offended. I don't get ANY respect by the great KANE KNIGHT. This is exactly why I say you value your own opinion and refuse to hear anyone else's. Basically, Kane Knight only respects Kane Knight's views and no others. Which is perfectly fine with me. I could care less.....

BUT, I am however, saying that it is essentially my right to be entitled to an opinion. Whether you agree or not isn't any of my concern.....

And I basically complain about the name-calling aspect. That's the only thing I ever replied complaining about. Other than that, I've never complained about ANYTHING. So, once again, you're putting words into my mouth...... SHOCKING!!

[John la Rock]

that's KK for ya

[olympic hitman]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Vince is basically taking bad advice. Triple H is one of the main suppliers of said bad advice. Just to give your analogy another look. I'm sure that Hitman will take this as "proof" that I'm agreeing Triple H isn't 100% to blame, but that's an irrelvent point his twisted mind game up to defend himself against the whole concept of Trips using backstage politics to keep himself on top and hurt the business.

This is probably the only thing we agree on. If infact Vince is taking advice from Hunter, then, Hunter is as much to blame as Vince. Although you see my point from earlier though. I've never said I agree with what Hunter does. This is a misconception and assumption that you[kane knight] made from the beginning which was completely wrong. All I've ever said is that we cannot know if Triple H is COMPLETELY to blame for what we see on TV. Since Vince is the boss, some of the blame goes to him. See what I mean? Oh well. Basically, throughout this entire post, people have been calling me ignorant. But, it is infact the other way around. People may ASSUMPTIONS that I was defending Triple H when I was NOT. I simply said he wasn't to blame for everything. Which again, most people took Knight's side after ASSUMING what he already did; that I was defending HHH

[John la Rock]

as for as HHH being the total package I agree. He's probably the 3rd best wrestler in the company behind Angle and HBK

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by olympic hitman Ohh, I'm SO offended. I don't get ANY respect by the great KANE KNIGHT. This is exactly why I say you value your own opinion and refuse to hear anyone else's. Basically, Kane Knight only respects Kane Knight's views and no others. Which is perfectly fine with me. I could care less..... BUT, I am however, saying that it is essentially my right to be entitled to an opinion. Whether you agree or not isn't any of my concern..... And I basically complain about the name-calling aspect. That's the only thing I ever replied complaining about. Other than that, I've never complained about ANYTHING. So, once again, you're putting words into my mouth...... SHOCKING!!

You were the one complaining about lack of respect. Multiple times.

Now you're trying to be a drama Queen, and play it like I'm the one who brought it up?

Doesn't matter if you want my respect or not, but if you don't care, why not stop whining about it?

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by olympic hitman This is probably the only thing we agree on. If infact Vince is taking advice from Hunter, then, Hunter is as much to blame as Vince. Although you see my point from earlier though. I've never said I agree with what Hunter does. This is a misconception and assumption that you[kane knight] made from the beginning which was completely wrong. All I've ever said is that we cannot know if Triple H is COMPLETELY to blame for what we see on TV. Since Vince is the boss, some of the blame goes to him. See what I mean? Oh well. Basically, throughout this entire post, people have been calling me ignorant. But, it is infact the other way around. People may ASSUMPTIONS that I was defending Triple H when I was NOT. I simply said he wasn't to blame for everything. Which again, most people took Knight's side after ASSUMING what he already did; that I was defending HHH

Actually, you assumed that I assumed that. I merely confirmed a hypothetical statement you made, at which point you threw a hissyfit about how you obviously had already said that (which you didn't).

I'm still not sure if you're lying because you're too much of a coward to admit you were wrong, or too stupid to see that you're wrong. Either way, doesn't change much.

[olympic hitman]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight You were the one complaining about lack of respect. Multiple times. Now you're trying to be a drama Queen, and play it like I'm the one who brought it up? Doesn't matter if you want my respect or not, but if you don't care, why not stop whining about it?

I'm not whining, simply stating the obvious, since you are in some weird form of denial or somethin'......

And like I said, I could care less about your respect, as you have no integrity to begin with. You started this whole thing by calling me a "fuckwit". So, let me break it down for ya; You didn't call my opinion "fuckwitted", you called me 'fuckwitted' and basically went off-topic all for ME? Alot of effort for someone who claims they don't care.....

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Actually, you assumed that I assumed that. I merely confirmed a hypothetical statement you made, at which point you threw a hissyfit about how you already said that[which you didn't].

I've assumed nothing. Just merely called everything as I seen it. As you answered to each "ignorant" post of mine[as the almight Knight is the judge,jury,& executioner about who knows what] I simply called your bluff and debated what you had already said. I threw no "hissyfits" or anything and I'm not quite sure why you keep emphasizing it, other than to keep repeating yourself.

And yes, go back to my original post. I did say that I wasn't defending Triple H. I believe it went a little something like;

Originally Posted by None other than me, Olympic Hitman I'd say keep the title off him awhile though. Being a ten time champion in a short time frame is ridiculous. He's getting up there with Flair and it took Flair twenty and thirty years to become a 16-time Champ.

The "keeping the title off him awhile" thing was implying that I didn't approve of his ridiculously long reigns. Which if you connect the dots, also implies that I'm NOT defending the guy for his wrongdoing[if the rumors about his politics are infact true].

Or how about this quote where I admitted I wasn't defending "The Game" in reply #90 of this same thread;

Originally Posted by ME again I admitted earlier that I "disliked" the fact that "The Game" uses his political power. Did you conveniantly skip that part?

Again, another example of where I wasn't defending HHH. Are you blind? Or just in a new level of denial?

Originally Posted by Kane Knight I'm still not sure if you're lying because you're too much of a coward to admit you were wrong, or too stupid to see that you're wrong. Either way, doesn't change much

This is perhaps the DUMBEST reply yet, as you added "coward" and "stupid" to the names you've already called me. Any more to showcase? And no, I'm no coward. If I'm wrong, I'm the first to admit it. You're just too much of a coward to admit that you assumed alot and now are stuck between a rock and a hard place. If you admit you assumed I was defending Triple H, all this name-calling and so-called "debating" of yours goes down the drain. And if you don't, you keep looking ignorant for refusal of admission[which is more obvious each time you reply ].

[Tornado]

Originally Posted by olympic hitman I bet you're a real trooper and nice guy Bet your imaginary friends think so too huh?

Originally Posted by olympic hitman Well, I'm not like you. I'm not gonna take childish shots at anyone.

That was a pretty childish shot IMO.

Dude, just cut your losses, and either
a)Leave
or
b)Shut the fuck up.

Your call.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by olympic hitman I'm not whining, simply stating the obvious, since you are in some weird form of denial or somethin'......

The obvious being that you have to lie to make an argument?

Anyway, you quoted yourself saying you admitted Triple H was controlling the backstage through politics in defense of a post where YOU NEVER SAID IT.

I could say that my last post was about how Maven is the most underrated heel in the business, but anyone with an IQ can tell different.

Seriously, stop trying to pretend you can take any high ground here. You're clearly not smart enough to keep up with your own arguments (As Tornado has pointed out, along with me, Fox, YOUR Hero, etc.), let alone someone else's.

[Kane Knight]

Alos, Loose Cannon needs to go in that list, since he was the one that you got pissy with over your Matt Hardy/Rhyno comments, when you kept contradicting yourself.

And because he then proceeded to beat you like a sack of puppies.

[Jaded-Dragon]

Originally Posted by John la Rock hopefully he meant Vengence

Yes I did, my bad. Even so, I'll give you WMXX also. However, I still maintain that the preverbial "good Triple H match" is way too few and far between for him to continuously have the main spot on Raw.

[Corkscrewed]

Originally Posted by John la Rock as for as HHH being the total package I agree. He's probably the 3rd best wrestler in the company behind Angle and HBK

Ignoring how their pushes go, I'd put Jericho and Eddie Guerrero ahead of him easily in terms of total package (Eddie, IMO, is #1, just millimeters ahead of Angle). I'd also argue in favor of people like Christian.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Corkscrewed Ignoring how their pushes go, I'd put Jericho and Eddie Guerrero ahead of him easily in terms of total package (Eddie, IMO, is #1, just millimeters ahead of Angle). I'd also argue in favor of people like Christian.

Eddie, Angle, and Y2J are definites. In my mind, so is Christian.

I could make arguments for other, less established people too. Hurricane is GREAT in ring and great on the mic. However, he's not even an upper-mid carder, so I'm sure the marks will attack him. I'd also nominate Kane. Jacobs has mad love for the business, he's a professional, he's got good mic skills, and he's one of the few hosses who doesn't SUCK. I think he'd be a strong heel champ...

With the exception of Eddie and Angle, I'm focusing on the Raw roster, because the argument was there was nobody near his level on that show. Not JLR's argument, mind.

There are others who could probably make the list too, under different circumstances.

Simon Dean: Anyone who's seen Nova knows how capable he is. And he's done a decent job at selling us a shit gimmick in the Simon Dean character.

Eugene: Dinsmore's pretty damn good, and as above, can sell a retarded (literally) gimmick. If either one of these two weren't in idiot gimmicks/watered down...

Regal: Well, I like him. His matches probably aren't high energy enough for most though. His promo skills are damn fine though. While he's not up there with Angle or Eddie or Jericho, he's worth mentioning.

Hassan: He's a rookie who hasn't really proven himself in the ring, but is solid in the ring and on the stick.

Benoit: If he developed some personality: Rimshot.

In terms of pushes, anyone can get a huge push and whatnot. HHH needs to be jammed down our throats, where most of these people need simply to not be choked.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Jaded-Dragon Yes I did, my bad. Even so, I'll give you WMXX also. However, I still maintain that the preverbial "good Triple H match" is way too few and far between for him to continuously have the main spot on Raw.

That's the problem. trips in 2000 was awesome. Trips nowadays doesn't merit the spot he's pulling.

[The Highlander]

vs Benoit at Vengeance
vs Benoit and JBK at WMXX

Maybe somebody else is responsible for Hunter's "Good matches". I've never been bored by a Benoit match, so him having a bad match with HHH would have put me into shock. Benoit is the second coming of The Excellence of Execution.

Triple H, however, is the worst thing to happen to wrestling since Vince Russo. Jericho, probably fearing for his job, said what they're doing with HHH is no different than what they did to Hulk Hogan in the 80's. Comparing Hunter to Hogan? What's next, comparing Barry Bonds to Jackie Robinson? Hogan, like a lot of current Nascar drivers, took a fake hick sport and took it mainstream. HHH is taking the sport, and are losing fans. Even me, who used to watch it religously, now doesn't think about it much if I miss Raw or Smackdown.
Plus, in Hogan's time, they had other guys in the main event as well. Savage, Slaughter, Warrior, Andre, Hart, Bossman, Undertaker, Piper. Look at today. They build a guy, have him fued with HHH for a little bit, and throw him back in the pile. Trust me, by the end of the year, Batista will be competeing for the IC belt, and nobody will care that he had the heavyweight belt (See Benoit, Chris; Jericho, Chris; Orton, Randy)

[Kane Knight]

That's beside the point though.

They were talking about the last good matches with Hunter in it, and the point that (carried or not) he doesn't have enough good matches to justify a main event slot.

But yeah, your point about main event slots is valid. JEricho actually said the opposite, which makes me question his integrity (Obviously he wants to keep his paycheck), but Hogan was NOT the only main eventer of the Hulkamania era.

[olympic hitman]

Originally Posted by Tornado That was a pretty childish shot IMO. Dude, just cut your losses, and either a)Leave or b)Shut the fuck up. Your call.

I've never taken shots at ANYONE. The line about having imaginary friends and being a "trooper" were that new thing called *SARCASM*, which to no surprize, someone pointed out yet again and flamed me for[with the whole "b}shut the fuck up" line can't you come up with anything more original than the ole' "shut up" line?].

Secondly, back to KK. You say I "quoted myself" in defense of a post where HHH was controlling politics when I had said I NEVER said it. Again, smoke & mirror illogically statements and putting words into my mouth. I have clarified my stance on the whole HHH thing; While I do think he plays the politic game, I DON'T think he is COMPLETELY to blame for being on top all the time; which has been my base arguement this ENTIRE time, which was either A]twisted logically and made to look contradictory, when in fact it WASN'T or B]flamed for, seeing as most people either didn't get the full depth of my view on the subject or were simply looking for a reason to flame for flame's sake;

Bottom line is I have NEVER backed down nor have I contradicted myself at ANY point. You'll probably pull another page of twisted logic or smoke & mirror arguing, but, I will not. Seeing as this topic is basically dead and no longer serving a purpose[wait, better save that line, as people might quote it and say "why keep replying then", when it is painstakingly obvious KK is taking shots at me, sure, why should I reply when people are still taking shots; logically indeed ].

Can't win em all. Apparently, people on this board aren't ready for differing opinions. Obviously, I'm a HHH fan. Although I don't mark for the guy, I am a fan of his work. Sometimes, it may come across as being 'biased' by terms of others, but, it's not. I'm also a realist and realize Trips is holding guys like Edge,Christian,Benjamin and Kane back from holding the belt in which he quite oftenly holds. I went this far to explain all this so it would partly stand to reason as my logic throughout this post; but, again, most people are just looking for a reason to flame me, so, why even bother to explain my position?

Good ridance to this topic