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Old 03-21-2006, 12:08 AM   #361
Kane Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
But who knows? If Piledrivers were still around, who knows how many more Wrestlers could have gone out with serious neck injuries? That decision has reduced neck injuries I believe, because I have not seen as many wrestlers out with neck injuries as from the era when piledrivers were common.

And I think profoesional trained athletes in good shape are a good thing.
Yeah, neck injuries could be worse. And piledrivers could have summoned forth the devil, who would banish all wrestlers to the ninth circle of Hell...

Meanwhile, "safer" wrestling has lead to injuries, especially from unprofessional wrestlers like Mark Henry (The guy was an unprofessional Olympic competitor, he's unprofessional as a wrestler) who were often the cause in the first place.

So why is wrestling so much more dangerous now? I mean, if the same serious injuries seem to be sustained when removing high risk moves from the pool, that means the remaining pool is somehow magically more dangerous.

And LOL at you saying trained professional atheletes is a good thing.

Also, when there neck injuries go down, they shouldn't simply transfer to other body parts. Back injuries are up, and can be just as serious.
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Old 03-21-2006, 02:34 AM   #362
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Vermaat, you gotta stick to your guns one way or another. You say Vince cares, then you say some wrestlers train for riskier moves and are thus allowed to do them. That makes less sense than you think. If it was all about care, woudln't Vince just eliminate dangerous bumps period? After all, the best way to fight an injury is to prevent it (just as you say).

I mean, if you say Shane trains for that bump, then why can't people train to receive pile drivers properly? It's not that hard... take them on a very soft stunt mat so that even if they're done wrong, no one gets hurt.

HBK doing the move the Shane makes no difference. It's still dangerous!!! If HBK did a pile driver to people, would you say that's okay?

See, this is why you're being trashed. You're saying two different things wihtout even realizing it. And if you try to argue against what I just said, then it proves you're being delusional, because you can't pick apart an argument better than I just did (not that it was hard).

Of course, you might just accuse me of being stubborn or something.
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Old 03-21-2006, 01:21 PM   #363
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I think he knows exactly how much he's contradicting himself.
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Old 03-21-2006, 01:26 PM   #364
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kalyx triad sucks the cock and is gay
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Old 03-21-2006, 01:56 PM   #365
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no matter how many times i read it, this thread title never gets old
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Old 03-21-2006, 02:15 PM   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohan3k
no matter how many times i read it, this thread title never gets old
The title obviously MAKED this thread.


Yeah, I used "Maked" on purpose.
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Old 03-21-2006, 04:33 PM   #367
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MADE
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Old 03-21-2006, 05:14 PM   #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corkscrewed
In short: Vermaat continues to take his own assumptions and opinions and use them as fact, but he refuses to accept reputable sources and arguments that go against his point of view, dismissing any such things as invalid. He tries to use academic tactics to support his case, but every instance contains an occassion where he asserts his opinion as fact.

This assertion of one's own opinion as fact while ignoring or dismissing any conflicting points is the basis of Vermaat looking like an illogical and ignorant fool who continues to stubbornly argue a lost cause.
(Been sick a few days, so just catching up.)

Corkscrewed, this statement is 100% CORRECT! That's why it's pointless to keep this debate going with Vermaat. The dude just back tracks himself into a corner with his own bullshit...then walks across all the bullshit and pretends none of it gets on his shoes. As long as he keeps using his "logic" as a rational producer of "facts" and defense for his arguments, this can go on forever.
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Old 03-21-2006, 08:40 PM   #369
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Thanks.
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Old 03-21-2006, 09:24 PM   #370
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This thread is MAKE IT OR BREAK IT BAH GAWD for Vermaat.
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Old 03-21-2006, 10:15 PM   #371
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If that's the case, then I think Vermaat is in the process of breaking it.
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Old 03-21-2006, 10:22 PM   #372
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You've been KKK'd!
Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
If that's the case, then I think Vermaat dun broke it.
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Old 03-21-2006, 10:25 PM   #373
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This...Is the Kolbert Report!
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Old 03-21-2006, 10:27 PM   #374
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LOL
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Old 03-21-2006, 10:29 PM   #375
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On a scale of Awesome to Godlike, how do you rate John Cena's championship?
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Old 03-21-2006, 10:31 PM   #376
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John Cena: Great Champion...or GREATEST Champion?
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Old 03-21-2006, 10:33 PM   #377
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I'll put you down for Godlike.
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Old 03-22-2006, 12:05 AM   #378
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Guys have you noticed that Vermat has yet to grace this page?

Does this mean someone has done the humane thing and banned the pleb?

If not may I suggest that this be done.

Or that all those half intelligent posters out there just completely ignore anything he posts!

I mean come on! There are some guys on here who have great opinions and make intellectual posts that I love to read. All of this talent (for lack of a better word) is being wasted on this ridiculous CUNT (for lack of a better word)
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Old 03-22-2006, 12:44 AM   #379
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I think he forgot his password.
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:11 AM   #380
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I can't believe I missed this thread! I've missed out on some good discussion. Alright, first I'm going to try and take some new approaches to the old arguments Vermaat presented:

You claim Akio can't talk. Why? I've heard reports that he can talk fine to people before and after shows. He's doing a promo segment in ROH soon. I think it's a part of the Straight Shootin' Series, or something.

You claim the cruiserweights are lazy? That is why Paul London VISIBLY puts 110% effort into every move he does? Watch his dropsault in the Fatal Fourway Match this past Velocity. The guy really wanted to get it noticed.

Another way to disprove your crazy lazy theory is to simply point out that the cruiserweights are stuck on Velocity. If pulling out "innovative" moves means they get World Title shots, don't you think they would have done it by now?

You want evidence that the WWE scripts the cruiserweights' matches for them? Paul London's standing shooting star press. I am not a trained professional wrestler, but wouldn't a standing SSP be harder to pull of due to the lack of time to adjust? If London had a choice between the visually impressive leap into the air before graciously landing on his opponent which impressive momentum, or flipping pointlessly for a two count looking move, which do you think he would choose?

Sliced Bread #2 is more innovative than the 619. The 619 has been done for years as a taunt. Hardly innovative. The Shiranui looks like it could kill someone.

Every match these guys get, they try to get the fans to take notice of them, but you are just too blind to see it. That is not an insult, that is fact. As for why the WWE would limit these guys? Because they don't want two little guys trained by Shawn Michaels showing up Triple H or John Cena in terms of ring ability. Sad, but true.

You say that Randy Orton is a bastard for saying what he said. The guy probably has no control over what he says. I doubt he would choose to say it. I'm not trying to bash Rey Mysterio here, because I am not close to the Guerrero family and have no clue what they wanted, but I find Rey equally at fault (if there is fault) as Randy Orton. You can't accuse one and not the other.

If Rey Mysterio had refused the angle, he would have been fine. The media was all over Eddie Guerrero's death, so Rey doing something with morals attached to it and leaving the company would not have looked good for the WWE.

Now for your John Cena arguement:

I could sit here all day and point out the same thing other people have, but I am simply going to say this. Assuming your "entire arenas are at the mercy of a small group of fans" is true (and that is a huge unrealistic assumption to make), then don't you think it would be smart for the WWE to target these small groups?

One of the first things you learn about business is "cool hunting", and how you target your product at people who can persuade other people that your product is "cool". If the "cool" thing is to boo John Cena, then the WWE would be smart to turn him heel. Fighting the fans which "control everything" assuming they exist on such a powerful scale as you say (I'm not doubting their are guys who start "Cena Sucks" just because they think it's funny), is stupid, because in reality you're only preventing your business from making money.

I don't see your logic in keeping John Cena pushed as the top face of the company, I really don't.

You mention "TRADITIONAL". I don't know what you mean. Are you assuming there is only one way to build a face? Are you trying to say that the Rock 'n' Wrestling era was the only true era, and that the Attitude era was all wrong? Did it ever occur to you that fans broke away from "TRADITIONAL" for a reason, in the first place?

My uncle stopped watching wrestling a while ago "because Stone Cold Steve Austin didn't drink beer anymore". My cousin stopped because it "got shit". Are they not TRUE WRESTLING FANS? I fail to see your logic there.

1) They stopped watching for reasons, not because it stopped being cool. Both stopped watching after the "cool" fans left.

2) It should not be the fans job to change themselves to fit the WWE product. The WWE product should change to fit the fans.

Your logic says that if Coca Cola stops selling soft drinks it is because of the consumer, and that they are not worth the company's attention. Your logic says no investigation or no modification to the product is needed.
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:16 AM   #381
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Vermaat is beginning to regret pissing off fans who live in their mother's basement and spend twelve hours a day on wrestling websites and forums.
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Old 03-22-2006, 09:32 AM   #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavo Classic
fans who live in their mother's basement and spend twelve hours a day on wrestling websites and forums
Whatever happened to you getting kidnapped and ransomed back to your family?
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Old 03-22-2006, 10:54 AM   #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
Your logic says that if Coca Cola stops selling soft drinks it is because of the consumer, and that they are not worth the company's attention. Your logic says no investigation or no modification to the product is needed.
To be fair, if you like WWE's programming right now (And some people love the wigger John Cena who makes poopy jokes and sucks up to the fans), why would you argue they should change?

Assuming he is a legitimate tardboy, of course.
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Old 03-22-2006, 10:57 AM   #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavo Classic
Vermaat is beginning to regret pissing off fans who live in their mother's basement and spend twelve hours a day on wrestling websites and forums.
Come on, this guy's a wrestling forum Godsend. Even the most retarded poster or n00biest newb can trash this guy. Who would be pissed off at that?
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Old 03-22-2006, 01:10 PM   #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XL
Guys have you noticed that Vermat has yet to grace this page?

Does this mean someone has done the humane thing and banned the pleb?

If not may I suggest that this be done.

Or that all those half intelligent posters out there just completely ignore anything he posts!

I mean come on! There are some guys on here who have great opinions and make intellectual posts that I love to read. All of this talent (for lack of a better word) is being wasted on this ridiculous CUNT (for lack of a better word)
This thread was make it or break it for Vermacelli... unfortunately the result was break it for him.
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Old 03-22-2006, 01:27 PM   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XL
Guys have you noticed that Vermat has yet to grace this page?

Does this mean someone has done the humane thing and banned the pleb?

If not may I suggest that this be done.

Or that all those half intelligent posters out there just completely ignore anything he posts!

I mean come on! There are some guys on here who have great opinions and make intellectual posts that I love to read. All of this talent (for lack of a better word) is being wasted on this ridiculous CUNT (for lack of a better word)
No, he's not banned yet, but when he sees this post he'll play the "I have a life" card.
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Old 03-22-2006, 04:46 PM   #387
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If Vermaat doesn't admit finally that he contradicts himself after the following example, I will give up. This guy is too much:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
WCW could not handle the competion because all of their top stars were OLD and they were listening to the fans too much, like they kept nWo around because the fans cheered it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
lol !!! nWo were HEELS. HEELS are meant to be hated. When I said that everyone hated them, I meant hated them as heels.
When a crowd truly hates a heel, they don't "cheer" them. Thus, the blatent contradiction of your two statements. THe FACT is that the crowd bood their asses off at the NWO by the end. Was it because they were still effective heels? Partially. Was it because fans were sick to death of them? Partially. Either way the fans BOO'D them. Fans did not "cheer" them as you claim. You argue and contradict your own point.....of course when you said "cheering" them, I "misunderstood" you right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
Edge won the title and the ratings went up. TRUE. Because of Edge? In a way, TRUE. Because Edge won the title? FALSE. The ratings went up because Edge promised LIVE SEX.
Listen, the live sex was ONE night. Edge had higher ratings than Cena THROUGHOUT THE DURATION OF HIM HAVING THE BELT. So this flushes your argument right down the toilet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
It's not based on my opinions, it's based on my experience. And guess what, your side of the argument has to be abandonded too then, because you don't have any better source then I do. You too are making judgements why people did this and that. At least my theory plays out logically. I talked to a good pool of people and granted, wCw people were not all like them, but they were a cut away representation of wCw fans. Now, what you said about the issue does not even have THIS backing.
For one, I don't need to ask anyone's opinion on what WCW was like because I actually watched it. You didn't, so no...you couldn't possibly have based your opinion on "your experience." Another thing, the source I was getting my information from is a little DVD called "The Monday Night Wars." This talks in detail about why WCW went out of business. This CLEARLY is not a better source for the argument then your "theory" based on interviewing a few teenagers. Damn, what was I thinking?
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Old 03-22-2006, 04:56 PM   #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold HamNegger
Listen, the live sex was ONE night. Edge had higher ratings than Cena THROUGHOUT THE DURATION OF HIM HAVING THE BELT. So this flushes your argument right down the toilet.
FALSE.

By the end of his reign, Edge's Raw ratings were the SAME as Cena's. This was addressed, and several people even admitted they were wrong when they saw the REAL Neilsen ratings at that point.

It's bullshit to say that they stayed up, because they were back down to their original ratings over a course of THREE FUCKING WEEKS.
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:00 PM   #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
FALSE.

By the end of his reign, Edge's Raw ratings were the SAME as Cena's. This was addressed, and several people even admitted they were wrong when they saw the REAL Neilsen ratings at that point.

It's bullshit to say that they stayed up, because they were back down to their original ratings over a course of THREE FUCKING WEEKS.
Well, I haven't heard that. I stand corrected then if it's true. All I've gone by is what I've heard from WWE and they advertise Edge as the "Highest Rated Champion in the Past Five Years." I've heard this on TV a couple times. I guess I'm just a jackass for believing anything WWE says in the first place.
Last edited by Arnold HamNegger; 03-22-2006 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:09 PM   #390
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He was using that before they even had ratings on Raw. He was using it on the first Raw after he won. He was using the figures of PPV rates and WWE.com visits.
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:10 PM   #391
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Also, that first Raw was legitimately highly rated, which probably counts for the highest rating in 5 years.
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:16 PM   #392
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I wasn't totally because of promised sex either I'm sure alot of people said "CENA FINALLY LOST THE TITLE!" to others which brought it up.
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:22 PM   #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Also, that first Raw was legitimately highly rated, which probably counts for the highest rating in 5 years.
Do you know if the ratings were higher than Cena's the Raw after the Live Sex episode? That's really an important factor. If they're higher, that still blows the "Live Sex Only" theory out the window.
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:23 PM   #394
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:33 PM   #395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold HamNegger
Do you know if the ratings were higher than Cena's the Raw after the Live Sex episode? That's really an important factor. If they're higher, that still blows the "Live Sex Only" theory out the window.
It went down a bit, but it was still higher than Cena's, yes. But one week later, it was back to the pre-NYR ratings.

The problem is, you're looking at like a .6 difference, and to lose that in 3 weeks kind of disproves the notion that Edge was a better draw.
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:51 PM   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
It went down like a full point, but it was still higher than Cena's, yes. But one week later, it was back to the pre-NYR ratings.
Still, that's 2 weeks higher than Cena and shows that WWE's product as a whole did nothing to keep the viewers when they had them back. You can't blame Edge for that because his ratings never fell below Cena's. I'm really suprised that WWE was willing to put that "Highest Rated Champion in the Past Five Years" promo on TV, because that makes HHH look bad too. Should be interesting to see the ratings after Mania when HHH has the strap.
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:02 PM   #397
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:33 PM   #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold HamNegger
Still, that's 2 weeks higher than Cena and shows that WWE's product as a whole did nothing to keep the viewers when they had them back. You can't blame Edge for that because his ratings never fell below Cena's. I'm really suprised that WWE was willing to put that "Highest Rated Champion in the Past Five Years" promo on TV, because that makes HHH look bad too. Should be interesting to see the ratings after Mania when HHH has the strap.
2 weeks higher than Cena, at least one by a margin of like .2 or .3 (I don't remember, they don't keep their ratings up for long), the other after which live sex was promised.

Further, not being worse than a face who couldn't get people to cheer him isn't saying much for your own star power. Edge ended up with the same ratings as the man who couldn't draw a face pop to save his life. HAd they stayed even a little above Cena's before they swapped it back to him, you'd have a decent point, but within a week, ratings were almost back to normal.
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:34 PM   #399
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RAW Ratings

January 2, 2006 (3.7)
January 9, 2006 (4.3) <-- First RAW with Edge as champ, Live Sex episode
January 16, 2006 (4.3)
January 23, 2006 (4.5)
January 30, 2006 (4.5) <-- After Royal Rumble when Cena regained title
February 6, 2006 (4.5)
February 16, 2006 (3.3) <-- Monday had the Dog Show
February 20, 2006 (4.0)
February 27, 2006 (4.0)
March 6, 2006 (4.0)
March 13, 2006 (4.1)

Source: Wrestling Information Archive
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:35 PM   #400
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Quote:
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Ku Klux Kane
I felt left out.
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