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Old 03-22-2006, 07:28 PM   #1
Kane Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey-Rey
EDIT: Ha ha ha ha ha. Holy shit. I lose. I just checked it up. So why the hell do they spike the ratings like that then?
I don't know, actually. It doesnt'make sense for otherwise legit sources (PWInsider, for example), to give false ratings.
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:37 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
I don't know, actually. It doesnt'make sense for otherwise legit sources (PWInsider, for example), to give false ratings.
I have been getting my rating numbers from Wrestling Information Archive...which apperently is guilty of spiking their ratings. Oops. I had no idea.
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:47 PM   #3
Kane Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
I have been getting my rating numbers from Wrestling Information Archive...which apperently is guilty of spiking their ratings. Oops. I had no idea.
EVERYONE's been doing it. People have gotten their numbers from PWI with the same result. And PWI is like the major source of most net news.
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:16 PM   #4
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The Shiranui is not a Dudley Dog. That's like saying a piledriver and a powerbomb are the same thing because they both start in the same position.
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:50 PM   #5
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Now look! You made him come back!

And we have another post full of quotes and dumb as fuck retorts!

Worse of all he took the piss out of me boo-hoo

Vermount, I don't know what 6th grade is!

Fortunately I do not have the displeasure of sharing the same soil as I am English.

I take it I am supposed to be offended by your oh so cutting (and clever) response but as I haven't done any homework in the 5 years since I finished school I've decided not to take offence.
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:50 PM   #6
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At this point, Arnold, I really hope HHH wins the title at Mania just so we can see if VErmaat's right, and it breaks WWE.
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Old 03-22-2006, 08:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
At this point, Arnold, I really hope HHH wins the title at Mania just so we can see if VErmaat's right, and it breaks WWE.
LOL, yeah me too. I can't wait to see him flip the script and start becoming a WWE basher.
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Old 03-22-2006, 10:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold HamNegger
LOL, yeah me too. I can't wait to see him flip the script and start becoming a WWE basher.
He'll probably still claim they're flawless, and at the same time, blame their failures on not pushing Cena or something.
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Old 03-22-2006, 09:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
At this point, Arnold, I really hope HHH wins the title at Mania just so we can see if VErmaat's right, and it breaks WWE.
The proof will be when they re-sign Rikishi. Then the crack that leads to the break will begin.






That works in so many ways....
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Old 03-22-2006, 08:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
I do not see 110% effort. It was good, but it was not Mysterio level of effort.
ROFLMAO. The completely subjectivity dripping from that statement pretty much destroyed any shread of argument you might have retained before that.

I see effort from John Cena, but it wasn't as good as Kurt Angle, or Chris Benoit, or Finlay, or Bobby Lashley, or Paul Burchill, or the Spirit Squad, or Randy Orton, or Triple H, or Shelton Benjamin, or Shawn Michaels. Yup, I can say it too!
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Old 03-22-2006, 08:04 PM   #11
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Cena could retain and the WWE still breaks.
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Old 03-22-2006, 08:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD
Cena could retain and the WWE still breaks.
Naw. VErmaat was explicit.
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Old 03-22-2006, 08:06 PM   #13
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And another thing Vermin, don't call people 'kid'

Especially if you dont check their actual age.

Especially if you're likely to be younger. I base this on two things, 1. You are a mark, 2. You are a John Cena mark.

In my original post I was actually doing you a favour by calling for people to STOP posting here.

I find it absolutely ridiculous that people are spending more time pointing out just how wrong you are than posting in serious, topical threads.

Now I find myself doing the same.
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Old 03-22-2006, 08:11 PM   #14
Kane Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XL
And another thing Vermin, don't call people 'kid'

Especially if you dont check their actual age.

Especially if you're likely to be younger. I base this on two things, 1. You are a mark, 2. You are a John Cena mark.

In my original post I was actually doing you a favour by calling for people to STOP posting here.

I find it absolutely ridiculous that people are spending more time pointing out just how wrong you are than posting in serious, topical threads.

Now I find myself doing the same.
He claimed to be 19.

To be young again...
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Old 03-22-2006, 09:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
He claimed to be 19.

To be young again...
He's 19? O.K. I'm 20. And he has a crack about my age for saying Biatch at the end of a post and says something about doing my homework in the 8th grade. Oh, I cannot beleive this has made it to 11 pages. And Page 10 was completely void of him but still funny.















BIATCH!
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Old 03-22-2006, 10:30 PM   #16
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What's going to happen when the ratings (and show quality) steadily rise with Hunter as champion? I mean besides all of us kicking ourselves for even liking Cena in the first place...
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Old 03-22-2006, 10:32 PM   #17
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I won't kick myself for liking Cena. He was worth it for a long time.
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Old 03-22-2006, 10:34 PM   #18
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But it lead to one of the worst face runs in years and may have ruined him forever (non-smark-wise)...
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Old 03-22-2006, 10:37 PM   #19
Kane Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126
But it lead to one of the worst face runs in years and may have ruined him forever (non-smark-wise)...
Naw. The Rock recovered...It's doable.

Then again, they've manged to botch both their Rock (Orton) and Austin (Cena) of this generation.
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Old 03-22-2006, 10:35 PM   #20
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Sadly, Hunter's actually been entertaining of late. Cena's been shite.

It's sad when the best thing on wrestling is a pirate.
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Old 03-22-2006, 10:39 PM   #21
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I don't see how Rock was ever crap in the Cena sense and don't see what he actually recovered from. The only time I can remember him completely bombing is as Rocky Maivia, but that was his first gimmick and he wasn't the main event (or even near the main event)...
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Old 03-23-2006, 01:27 AM   #22
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Vermaat, you said you know wrestling is scripted. Guys cannot go out and talk whenever they want to, management has to OK it. Akio NEVER had the chance to talk. He can't just go and talk because he wants to.

Your statement about it being easier to talk to a small group rather than a larger group is not fact, by the way. Want an example? Johnny Carson. I've heard numerous statements from people close to him that claim Carson was far more comfortable in front of a larger crowd than a smaller crowd.

I also find it much easier to express myself in front of larger crowds. Smaller crowds can be full of people you know, and opinion is more easily expressed to you. When you can see the faces of each and every person listening to what you have to say, it is far worse (in my opinion) than faceless people up the back (which makes projection much easier). I think you'd find a lot of guys that cut effective promos look at the people in the back much more than the people in the front. It is more off-putting to see expressionless shapes in the upper section rather than people laughing at a serious comment you make in the front row.

You say that Paul London's standing SSP is more impressive because less people do it. I disagree with that. Johnny Nitro has done it once (correct me if I'm wrong). Who in the WWE does the Shooting Star Press? No one. And besides, why is it that almost every time Paul London or Brian Kendrick come off the top rope, we don't see a Shooting Star Press or a Spinning Frog Splash? If London has the determination to pull off a standing version of the move, shouldn't it be easy to hit it off the top rope? Why wouldn't he do it? Laziness cannot be an excuse, as he does it off the ground (which would be harder, I image). He doesn't do the London Calling because the WWE won't let him!

Have you actually seen Sliced Bread #2? Your saying that the 619 has never been done in the WWE, but I think you would be able to find it. Go pla any of the N64 WWE games and it is a taunt. The Shiranui has never been done in the WWE to my knowledge. I might be wrong, and someone in Kaientai may has whipped it out once or twice, but I didn't watch then, so I am not going to make claims.

The Shiranui is not a Dudley Dog (as has been already stated). It starts as an ace crusher (like the Dudley Dog, yes), the applier than runs the turnbuckle (like the Dudley Dog, yes), and then backflips (unlike the Dudley Dog) into a modified reverse DDT (the variation Christian does). You're telling me a light kick to the face is more innovative than that? You may not like SB#2, but as far as impressiveness goes, SB#2 should technically be considered better.

You've turned everyone here against Rey Mysterio. No one says he is bad, but you have basically said he tries harder than everyone else. You do realise his matches are the same stuff over and over again. Not innovative stuff. The West Coast Pop he has not done in AGES! His finishing moves right now are the Booyaka Bomb, as I like to call it (springboard senton pressy move) the Droppin' the Dime (springboard leg drop, WOAH! Innovative!) and the springboard splash. I got board of writing springboard. None of those moves is innovative. Victoria's slingshot flipping leg drop is more creative.

Randy Orton didn't know Eddie Guerrero as well as Rey Mysterio. Orton is detached from this whole thing. I'm not trying to say that means it's OK, but certainly you can't give him MORE responsibility for the situation than Rey Mysterio. I said they are both equal, you said they are different and then changed your story to match mine, while presenting it as your own arguement. Huh? Rey Mysterio & Randy Orton should both take blame of the situation (if blame need be given). Rey Mysterio is JUST AS RESPONSIBLE as Randy Orton for being involved in the "Eddie is in Hell" angle than Randy Orton, if not more, depending on which morals you apply to the situation. I want to see how you reply to that. What morals do you have which make participating in a storyline which insults a close friend, better for you than it does the person insulting them. I'm not trying to say Mysterio or Orton was wrong, because the Guerreros may have been fine with it, but if they were not, I want to see why you would give the blame to Randy and not Rey.

Keep in mind that Randy Orton would have been given a script, and that Rey Mysterio would have known what was going to be said.

This brings up my next point, only the best being in the WWE. Test, why is he back? If he wasn't "good enough" to stick around, why do you think he was asked back to the WWE. And don't say he improved, because I would like you to find the evidence. Test has worked very few shows, so it would be more likely Test would have DECREASED in ability. Sure, they had him work dark matches, but why did they wait so long?

When wrestlers with potential are released you claim they need to be good talkers, wrestlers and have good characters. You do realise that Aaron Aguilera and Matt Morgan are fantastic talkers don't you? You do realise that said wrestlers were never given a chance to talk (properly). You do realise that the wrestlers do not talk when they want to, nor do they have ANY control over their character.

If Brian Kendrick were released tomorrow, why would that be? Give me one good reason based on Kendrick's abilities. He's a good wrestler, good talker, charismatic and had a good crowd reaction when he first (re)debuted and when he is allowed to wrestle and speak. What reason would you give to protect the WWE? I want you to find one fault with Paul London that Rey Mysterio doesn't have.

Please do not mention effort, because all of Mysterio's matches, whilst being good, are definately not more innovative than Paul London's. Want an example? Paul London hitting a quebrada over the top rope to Billy Kidman who was standing on the outside (!). What, did he not get lazy for one night? He was given a chance and he ran with it.

Another example? Paul London kicking off the back of Chad Dick and hitting James Dick with a similar move (!). You said The Dicks & The Heartbreakers sucked? No they didn't! The WWE made them suck. Watch Romeo Roselli and "The Promise" Antonio Thomas in OVW. They were over HUGE. These guys are the funniest tag team since Booker T & Goldust. The WWE fucked them up. What? The Heart Throbs got lazy? Their first match in the WWE was as "The Heartbreakers", and they were actually the highlight of the night in my opinion. They were good. The WWE fucked them up.

Tank Toland is an amazing wrestler. So there goes your "the sucked" comment. Chad Toland while not being as good as John Toland, was still decent at the very least. The gimmick the WWE wrote for them sucked, the fans didn't like it, the WWE didn't drop it, who suffers? The talent involved.

You said my cousin and my uncle were not true wrestling fans because they stopped watching because they stopped for reasons not related to the wrestling. My uncle stopped because the entertainment in sports entertainment stopped (in his opinion, which he is entitled to have) and my cousin for reasons I did not fully specify. How do you know he stopped because of reasons other than the product?

You claim that real wrestling fans don't stop watching. We keep watching, and the majority of us are shitting all over your "facts". Sorry buddy, but real wrestling fans don't like what they see either.

John Cena is aimed at mature fans? The guy looks SIX YEARS OLD! His clothing is ridiculous try-hardish. He cannot throw effective looking punches and he looks like a horse trying to stand up for the first time when he moves. I LIKE John Cena. I do not like the character the WWE have given him.

You claim people watched because of the promise of sex. That is stupid. If it were true, would the WWE not have sex promises on every show he does? Would Val Venis not be given the WWE Title? Or has the WWE not realised people watch only when sex is promised?

The fans that boo John Cena are not troublemakers. Some may be, but you seem to forget, they are obviously plenty enough in number to pursuade such a large number of fans. They are obviously better at controlling a crowd than John Cena. Shouldn't the WWE go with these fans? And don't say they'd boo whatever the WWE throws at them, because (and I believe this is a point you have avoided since the beginning of the topic) so many main eventers are cheered. Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker, Kurt Angle & Rey Mysterio to name a few. Why are they not booed? Explain that to us. I think you said John Cena is an easy target. Why? Why is the guy you claim to be the best face in the company an easy target for fans to boo? Fans "cheer" good faces.

I don't want to bring up contradiction again, because you never seem to set the record straight with those points, but you say a good face connects with the fans. Cena hasn't done that. He gets booed. Is that connecting? A good face (The Rock, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Shawn Michaels, etc.) has the fans eating out of their hands. Why doesn't Cena? Do not say troublemakers, that is retarded. Troublemakers, if they exist in the quantity you say they do, should have the product based around them, because they are making up a HUGE number of ticket sales.

And if you say that they are only a small number and have since spread via the television, you basically have to go by the arguement that John Cena has been poisoned as a face, and he is always going to get booed unless he turns heel and freshens himself up. How does having a face that gets booed, which sends messages to "the sheep" that are watching, boost business? I fail to see that. Either Cena gets booed, and sucks as a face OR he gets booed because people are not strong enough to like him. Either way, Cena is not the guy you want to be basing your business around.

I think you see a good face as someone who mechanically plays the role well. Someone who can go out there say "Never give up!" and family friendly stuff and wins all the time. I think the rest of the people here see a face as someone who gets cheered and captures energy within every motion they make. Someone who organically fits the role.

Just thought I'd bring up Batista. Why isn't he booed? He was the top guy last year, yet he always got cheered. Where were the troublemakers?
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Old 03-23-2006, 01:28 AM   #23
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Sorry about the long post. This topic is great for long posts, though.
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Old 03-23-2006, 09:10 AM   #24
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I agree with the crowd thing though. While I think my record was only about 300 people, I've a much easier time jumping up on stage than I do addressing a single person or group of like, 3.
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Old 03-23-2006, 09:29 AM   #25
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I've been watching this thread and I don't even know where to begin with a response, so I think I'm just going to sit this one out for now.

Vermaat, you are a God damn retard. Mere words cannot begin to describe how fucking stupid you are. Unlike other morons who have posted here, just seeing your name makes me angry. Angry, yet excited how some of the TPWWers are going to take your little opinions and rip them to shreds with facts. Basically, with you, I'm hoping you get a searing case of herpes from a truck stop bathroom. Go fuck yourself.
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Old 03-23-2006, 09:40 AM   #26
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Sorry to bring up the issue about Edge and the ratings when he was champ, but what else was going on with Raw at that time? Specifically, what was McMahon doing during that time. There are a lot of people on that roster, and you really can't say that the ratings for a show are based entirely on who was champ at the time. Maybe something turned people away, or it might be that absolutely nothing else important was happening at the time and the fans got bored. I just don't want to make a decision about Edge's championship until I know what the big picture was.
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Old 03-23-2006, 06:49 PM   #27
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Funny you keep mentioning him in the same breath as Stone Cold. Your whole "theory" about Cena and the basis of this thread is that WWE needs to make him more invincible. You want him to go on a "Goldberg" like streak. You claim that people don't like Cena because he seems weak after losing to Edge. You claim that if he loses, WWE will start to fall from the top. The HUGE flaw in your logic involves Stone Cold. He managed to get total fan approval and turned face BY LOSING to Bret Hart at Mania 13. Thus this makes your theory total bullshit.
Just because it worked for one guy doesn't mean it will work for another. Yes losing can make a guy into a big face like with Stone Cold, however, it can also make a guy not hold his ground as a face. It depends on their characters and it fit Stone Cold but doesn't fit Cena or Goldberg (no wonder WWE ruined him and he wasnm't as over).

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Listen, did you watch SNME? Your theory on peer pressure goes out the window with the simple fact that people that boo Cena DO IT SIMULTANIOUSLY! It's not a slow, peer pressure inducing boo that builds up strenght like fans starting "the wave." One of the biggest face pops of the night was HHH giving Cena the Pedigree. Those aren't "troublemakers", those are fans that genuinly don't like Cena. Accept it and quit making excuses.
Yes now they are doing it automatically because they are used to doing it as a cool thing and because they watched it from home.

Quote:
People HAVE stopped watching. This has been pointed out intelligently to you by numerous posters. Ratings are way down from what they used to be. But again, you discard ALL OF OUR OPINIONS and facts. You think it's "best" right now because you're a Cena Mark. No change is needed? That's not what you said in your original post when you created this thread. Make up your fucking mind!
I didn't say there needed to be a big change in my original post. I said that WWE needs to watch what they are doing because doing the wrong thing at Mania can lead to trouble later on. I looked at some areas where WWE may do wrong.

Quote:
Again, another bullshit excuse to avoid admitting you were wrong. If that's the case, then you've made alot of "typo's" throughout this entire thread.
I wasn't wrong. I made a typo. The rest of my post suggests the same thing that I am saying now, so if I didn't make a type, wouldn't I write something else there in the rest of the post ? But of course you guys just love to pick on typos anything to avoid the FACTS.

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Are you psychic?
Not psychic, I just know people's psychology. Sex sells. Proven FACT.

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FACE IT, your argument is not valid to anyone but you. Again, you're arguing against DOCUMENTED FACTS on a DVD regarding this subject!! These are actual WWE employees (including Vince) and former WCW employees telling what exactly happened.
I'm not arguing against the DVD. The DVD didn't say "The WWE had absolutely nothing to do with wCw going out of business". That's what I said. And former wCw employees are going to be biased because they want to be viewed as good workers. I would need to watch the DVD to give you a more concise reasoning on the fans idea, however, even if they did not mention it, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. They may have just not mentioned it !!!

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Fortunately I do not have the displeasure of sharing the same soil as I am English.

I take it I am supposed to be offended by your oh so cutting (and clever) response but as I haven't done any homework in the 5 years since I finished school I've decided not to take offence.
Well, you obviously act with the maturity of a 6th grader. And wow, bringing in nations into this, real mature.

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At this point, Arnold, I really hope HHH wins the title at Mania just so we can see if VErmaat's right, and it breaks WWE.
It would start the WWE on a bad road, but WWE will have a chance to recover!

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I see effort from John Cena, but it wasn't as good as Kurt Angle, or Chris Benoit, or Finlay, or Bobby Lashley, or Paul Burchill, or the Spirit Squad, or Randy Orton, or Triple H, or Shelton Benjamin, or Shawn Michaels. Yup, I can say it too!
I disagree with that assertion. You might disagree with mine. However, I think WWE knows what they are doing most of the time and if what I said was false, then they would see this insane talent in the wrestler you like and push him.

Quote:
And another thing Vermin, don't call people 'kid'

Especially if you dont check their actual age.
If you don't want to be called kid, then maybe you need to act your age. All I see is someone immature acting like a little kid who just learned some "bad" words. Your actual age might be high, but your mental age is low, in the single digits.

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Vermaat, you said you know wrestling is scripted. Guys cannot go out and talk whenever they want to, management has to OK it. Akio NEVER had the chance to talk. He can't just go and talk because he wants to.
True. I know this. However WWE is not stupid. If a guy can talk, then they will let him talk. WWE knew Akio couldn't, so they didn't let him.

Quote:
Your statement about it being easier to talk to a small group rather than a larger group is not fact, by the way. Want an example? Johnny Carson. I've heard numerous statements from people close to him that claim Carson was far more comfortable in front of a larger crowd than a smaller crowd.
That might be true, but wouldn't the WWE know it? If Akio could talk, then I think they would let him. He probably had a bad attitude about it.

Quote:
You say that Paul London's standing SSP is more impressive because less people do it.
It's more impressive to me because he needs to jump into the air and do it. The regular SSP he does the same thing in effect but he gets in the air by climbing the ropes. This is why the regular SSP seems to be less impressive. I mean, big guys like Lesnar can (Could?) do the SSP, but I doubt they can do it standing. It is hard.

Quote:
Have you actually seen Sliced Bread #2?
Yes I have. So basically, based on what you said, it is all like the dudley dog except the last part. This is why I don't think it's innovative. It is derived and quite similar to a move another wrestler did in the WWE a long time ago. And a move doesn't need high impact to be innovative.

Quote:
None of those moves is innovative. Victoria's slingshot flipping leg drop is more creative.
I haven't seen anyone do these moves like Rey Mysterio does it, thus they are innovative. Mysterio takes them to a new level because he does them with such speed and in a different fashion. It just looks cool when he is doing it and I don't remember other cruisers doing it. Thus it is Innovative.

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I want to see why you would give the blame to Randy and not Rey.
Because Rey did not say ONE offensive thing about Eddie.

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Keep in mind that Randy Orton would have been given a script, and that Rey Mysterio would have known what was going to be said.
Ok so he should have protested Orton's part, but not his own as he didn't say anything bad i.

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This brings up my next point, only the best being in the WWE. Test, why is he back?
Neither of us know if he increased or decreased in ability. I think he will increase, you think he decreased. Neither of us is right, we don't know. However, I think WWE hired him back because he has agreed to try and improve.

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When wrestlers with potential are released you claim they need to be good talkers, wrestlers and have good characters. You do realise that Aaron Aguilera and Matt Morgan are fantastic talkers don't you?
Morgan and Aguilera were likely released for other reasons other then talking. Matt Morgan was a pretty generic hoss and Aguilera was a terrible brawler. I mean, I remember his match with Cena, it was pretty poor. I guess WWE didn't see potential in them or maybe, just maybe, they refused to even show it.

I don't see why you guys are all like "WWE is evil" and all wrestlers are right. Some guys are just plain poor in some fields.

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If Brian Kendrick were released tomorrow, why would that be? Give me one good reason based on Kendrick's abilities.
He isn't. However, I could see WWE releasing him because they only have two hours of a show to fill and sometimes, there is more people then they can have there, even if they are all good. That's the only good reason I can think of as Kendrick is a pretty awesome wrestler.

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Watch Romeo Roselli and "The Promise" Antonio Thomas in OVW.
They started off good but went DOWNHILL fast. Why? We don't know. I suspect they said "we're at the top let's stop putting any more effort in"

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How do you know he stopped because of reasons other than the product?
Because that's the reasons you gave me. Have nothing to do with the product lol.

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John Cena is aimed at mature fans? The guy looks SIX YEARS OLD! His clothing is ridiculous try-hardish.
John Cena can't throw punches? Then HHH can't do the pedigree. His punches look cool and he doesn't look like he is six years old. He looks like a normal young guy today. He dresses hip hop because that's what the culture is today. He is T-O-D-A-Y. Literaly.

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I think you said John Cena is an easy target. Why? Why is the guy you claim to be the best face in the company an easy target for fans to boo? Fans "cheer" good faces.
Because Cena has been going against ineffective heels. If he went against effective heels, then he wouldn't be an easy target.

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Cena hasn't done that.
He was getting INSANE cheers feuding with JBL, until he started going against bad heels.

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Troublemakers, if they exist in the quantity you say they do, should have the product based around them, because they are making up a HUGE number of ticket sales.
ONe day they like one thing, another day another. You can't build a product aimed at pleasing them, they never like one thing, they are not true fans.

Quote:
Just thought I'd bring up Batista. Why isn't he booed? He was the top guy last year, yet he always got cheered. Where were the troublemakers?
Batista had a better progression. He feuded with Triple H and Triple H was playing his role well (no stupid jokes about reebok).

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Vermaat, you are a God damn retard. Mere words cannot begin to describe how fucking stupid you are. Unlike other morons who have posted here, just seeing your name makes me angry. Angry, yet excited how some of the TPWWers are going to take your little opinions and rip them to shreds with facts. Basically, with you, I'm hoping you get a searing case of herpes from a truck stop bathroom. Go fuck yourself.
What do we have here? Oh a little kid that's insecure of himself. Getting angry at a message board? LOL !!!

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Wouldn't it be awesome though? To see Mania break WWE? I mean, bad apples are already destroying it from the inside...
You are not understanding the point. WWE won't break instantly, it will just go on a road that can lead to it's destructon later.
 
Old 03-23-2006, 08:16 PM   #28
Arnold HamNegger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
Just because it worked for one guy doesn't mean it will work for another. Yes losing can make a guy into a big face like with Stone Cold, however, it can also make a guy not hold his ground as a face. It depends on their characters and it fit Stone Cold but doesn't fit Cena or Goldberg (no wonder WWE ruined him and he wasnm't as over).
Are you that stupid? Don't you see that I can turn your own logic against you? Just because it worked for Goldberg doesn't mean it would work for Cena. And the cold hard fact is that it didn't. You seem to ignore the fact that Cena held the Title for a LOOOONNNGGG time before losing to Edge. This is why people got sick of him, because he was booked as to "cartoonish and Superman like." Ironically, if WWE were to listen to your "theory" and "logic", your precious Cena would get even more boo's than he is now. You single handedly are trying to fuck your own hero. Keep up the good work!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
Yes now they are doing it automatically because they are used to doing it as a cool thing and because they watched it from home.
LOL!!!!! This might be the dumbest thing you've said on this thread. (And that's saying ALOT.) If you really believe this then you are fucking hopeless. So, according to your theory....pretty much everyone in attendance in Detroit at SNME is not a "REAL WRESTLING" fan? Because the response when Cena's face smacked the canvas was deafening. Even worse, the "sheep" are actually Cena fans....but have watched what "cool" people are doing from home...and decide to boo their favorite wrestler to seem cool. Your theory is fucked up on so many levels it's hilarious. Do you remember RAW a couple weeks ago? He actually didn't get boo'd that much, if at all. Those people in the crowd obviously watch the same "bad apples" at home as everyone else....yet, they didn't conform to your theory. The fact is that in every town, the boo's are at a different level each time....you know why? Because in each town, individual people with individual taste's pay their hard earned money to watch RAW and they boo who they want to boo and they cheer who they want to cheer. Each town has a different amount of people that don't like Cena. That's the explanation. There is no conspiracy theory against Cena as you suggest. Individuals that don't like him, express their individual opinion by booing him. The ONLY logical SANE conclusion to anyone that's not a brainwashed, delusional Cena mark is that alot of people don't like Cena in Detroit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
I didn't say there needed to be a big change in my original post. I said that WWE needs to watch what they are doing because doing the wrong thing at Mania can lead to trouble later on. I looked at some areas where WWE may do wrong.
Newsflash Junior...they are serving up Cena to HHH on a silver platter. Deep down you know it, that's why you felt the need to make this thread. The "change" is that you want Cena to win. Simple enough for you?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
But of course you guys just love to pick on typos anything to avoid the FACTS.
There's nothing to avoid, you haven't provided one FACT the entire thread.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
Not psychic, I just know people's psychology. Sex sells. Proven FACT.
Again, lumping people into a "flock of sheep" and ignoring the fact that people have individual tastes and opinions....WHICH YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY KNOW IF YOU AREN'T PSYCHIC! If every wrestling fan is just after sex, then explain why Candice has been getting NO REACTION from the fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
I'm not arguing against the DVD. The DVD didn't say "The WWE had absolutely nothing to do with wCw going out of business".
That's not the point I'm arguing you jackass, obviously WWE had ALOT to do with WCW going out of business. I think jacking off to your Cena posters is making you blind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
And former wCw employees are going to be biased because they want to be viewed as good workers.
What in the blue flying christ are you talking about? Seriously? THEY RIP INTO THE WCW!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
I would need to watch the DVD to give you a more concise reasoning on the fans idea, however, even if they did not mention it, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. They may have just not mentioned it !!!
Until you watch the DVD, please shut up. Interviews with people such as Eddie, Benoit, Big Show, Jericho, etc. state their displeasure with WCW because the fact is that the only people Bischoff listened too were Bischoff and the Political monsters behind the curtain that controlled the NWO. All of these people state that everyone was getting sick of the NWO! A quote from the DVD is "On our show, you couldn't tell what month it was." Thus, as the DVD goes on to point out....WCW didn't listen to the fans. The fans LOVED the cruiserweights, luchador's, etc.....but they got ignored. Hell, the fans LOVED Bret Hart when he came to WCW, but it took WCW over a year before they took him seriously and gave him a title shot. Also, on the DVD, a HUGE point is confirmed that proves your theory wrong as well. The only time that WCW listened to the fans and pushed anyone other than the NWO is Goldberg. Thus, eventually fans jumped ship to watch the WWE and lead to WCW getting crap ratings and going out of business. Is that simple enough for you? Therefore, your opinion...which was an assumption based on talking to a few people to begin with, is DEAD WRONG. End of discussion.
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:35 PM   #29
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Just because it worked for Goldberg doesn't mean it would work for Cena. And the cold hard fact is that it didn't. You seem to ignore the fact that Cena held the Title for a LOOOONNNGGG time before losing to Edge.
It didn't work for Cena because THEY DID NOT USE IT FOR CENA. Goldberg had a whole streak with a count. Cena didn't.

Quote:
This is why people got sick of him, because he was booked as to "cartoonish and Superman like."
"People" got sick of him because the heels were not doing their job right. And if you want to talk SNME, GUESS WHAT, I heard a lot of cheers for Cena besides the boos. This proves that Cena has a lot of fans and that not everyone is out to screw up the show for giggles like you.

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LOL!!!!! This might be the dumbest thing you've said on this thread. (And that's saying ALOT.) If you really believe this then you are fucking hopeless. So, according to your theory....pretty much everyone in attendance in Detroit at SNME is not a "REAL WRESTLING" fan? Because the response when Cena's face smacked the canvas was deafening.
Like I said above I heard a lot of cheers as well. And the cheers are because HHH is not playing a proper heel. The whole thing about reebok PROVED it. He is trying to be funny because HHH doesn't like Cena because Cena is the biggest thing WWE has got in a while and he sees him as a threat so he is playing a bad heel.

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There is no conspiracy theory against Cena as you suggest. Individuals that don't like him, express their individual opinion by booing him.
Some do. However, a lot of people just do it for giggles or because the heel is playing a bad role !!!

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Newsflash Junior...they are serving up Cena to HHH on a silver platter.
The match is 50-50 it can go either way. And that is not a change, if HHH wins and I say it, then yeah, I want a change.

Quote:
If every wrestling fan is just after sex, then explain why Candice has been getting NO REACTION from the fans.
There's a difference between a chick that's hot and sex. There are a lot of hot chicks in wrestling, but never do they promise live sex. People want to see the actual act, that's why they decided to look. A lot of people were curious to see how WWE would do such a thing

Quote:
That's not the point I'm arguing you jackass, obviously WWE had ALOT to do with WCW going out of business. I think jacking off to your Cena posters is making you blind.
Ahh, a personal insult. I'm sorry you have confidence issues.

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What in the blue flying christ are you talking about? Seriously? THEY RIP INTO THE WCW!
That's right, they want to show that they are good workers to the WWE. WWE doesn't want hire someone who likes a rival, they want to hire guys who hate their rival, even if they did take it out of business. That's why these wrestlers are saying these things there

Quote:
Interviews with people such as Eddie, Benoit, Big Show, Jericho, etc. state their displeasure with WCW because the fact is that the only people Bischoff listened too were Bischoff and the Political monsters behind the curtain that controlled the NWO. All of these people state that everyone was getting sick of the NWO! A quote from the DVD is "On our show, you couldn't tell what month it was." Thus, as the DVD goes on to point out....WCW didn't listen to the fans. The fans LOVED the cruiserweights, luchador's, etc.....but they got ignored. Hell, the fans LOVED Bret Hart when he came to WCW, but it took WCW over a year before they took him seriously and gave him a title shot. Also, on the DVD, a HUGE point is confirmed that proves your theory wrong as well. The only time that WCW listened to the fans and pushed anyone other than the NWO is Goldberg. Thus, eventually fans jumped ship to watch the WWE and lead to WCW getting crap ratings and going out of business. Is that simple enough for you? Therefore, your opinion...which was an assumption based on talking to a few people to begin with, is DEAD WRONG. End of discussion.
But the fans hated the NWO as heels. This shows it. wCw pushed the nWo because the fans disliked it so much and the role of a heel is to be disliked.

And it is not an opinion, it is a little something called logic that you lack. It seems to me, based on YOUR post, the biggest problem with wCw was pushing the nWo and I showed how wCw pushed the nWo because they listened to the fans and thought they were a good heel. It is very simple to see really.

And luchadors got ignored? That's why wCw was having so many luchador matches. lol !!!
 
Old 03-23-2006, 09:33 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
Some do. However, a lot of people just do it for giggles or because the heel is playing a bad role !!!
So now the best heel in recent memory, HHH....the darling of WWE management is suddenly playing a bad heel. You're too much, really.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
That's right, they want to show that they are good workers to the WWE. WWE doesn't want hire someone who likes a rival, they want to hire guys who hate their rival, even if they did take it out of business. That's why these wrestlers are saying these things there
AGAIN YOU DISCOUNT WORDS COMING OUT OF ACTUAL WRESTLERS MOUTHS BECAUSE IT PROVES YOU WRONG! You have issues, seek professional help.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
And it is not an opinion, it is a little something called logic that you lack. It seems to me, based on YOUR post, the biggest problem with wCw was pushing the nWo and I showed how wCw pushed the nWo because they listened to the fans and thought they were a good heel. It is very simple to see really.
I don't need logic you ignorant fucking asshole! The facts are on the DVD, there's no logic to be used!! You keep repeating your same bullshit "logic" over and over again..EVEN THOUGH IT IS 100% WRONG! You aren't debating the issue, you're looking like a raving delusional idiot! How can I spell it out any different for you......on the DVD they state that THE ONLY ONES AT THE END WHO WANTED THE NWO WERE BISCHOFF AND THE NWO! There are COUNTLESS people who testify to this and admit that the fans as well as alot of the wrestlers within the company were ignored! THIS IS WHY FANS QUIT WATCHING AND WHY WRESTLERS JUMPED SHIP TO WWE!
This is NOT MY OPINION, this is NOT a subject that you can "logically" come up with a different scenerio and claim to be right. I'm quoting actual facts from actual professional people involved...WHICH YOU CAN WATCH YOURSELF AT ANYTIME...and you're telling me I'm wrong because I lack logic? WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
And luchadors got ignored? That's why wCw was having so many luchador matches. lol !!!
There weren't that many matches at the end of WCW and they were never used as anything more than filler. They took a backseat to the older, big name wrestlers....BUT OH, you wouldn't know that because YOU DIDN"T WATCH IT!

How you continue to argue with me when #1you didn't watch WCW and know nothing about them and #2 have never watched the DVD I'm refering too, yet keep discarding documented facts from everyone that was ever involved on the subject and INSIST that you are right is beyond me! How are you an expert on something that you know nothing about? You're gonna discard professional opinions and facts based on "logic" you've obtained from asking a few teenagers?

Seriously, all you have to do is say "OK, I was wrong. I didn't know that there was a DVD that discusses this subject THOROUGHLY and I was mistaken." Is that so hard? I really try not to resort to name-calling, but it's this attitude of yours that makes it impossible not to get upset and call you a fucking idiot...because there's no other explanation.
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Old 03-24-2006, 09:41 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
Quote:
Have you actually seen Sliced Bread #2?

Yes I have. So basically, based on what you said, it is all like the dudley dog except the last part. This is why I don't think it's innovative. It is derived and quite similar to a move another wrestler did in the WWE a long time ago. And a move doesn't need high impact to be innovative.

Quote:
None of those moves is innovative. Victoria's slingshot flipping leg drop is more creative.

I haven't seen anyone do these moves like Rey Mysterio does it, thus they are innovative. Mysterio takes them to a new level because he does them with such speed and in a different fashion. It just looks cool when he is doing it and I don't remember other cruisers doing it. Thus it is Innovative.
So basically what you're saying is that Mysterio is more innovative than sliced bread (think about that part for a second) because he does a lot of the same moves that every other Lucha Libre wrester does... Oh, wait.. He does them a little different (sliced bread is A LITTLE DIFFERENT than the Acid Drop) and he does them faster (Luchadores are fast. Watch something other than WWE and you'll know this, you fucktard.)

Cena is a wigger. Wiggers piss off a lot of people because they are fucking pathetic. Theres a word for what a wigger really is: POSER.

There is a way to redeem Cena: Fans boo him, so he says (I'm not going to use wigger-speak for this): "You wanna boo me? Fine. Fuck you. I'm still the champ and theres not a damn thing you can do about it but sit on your fat ass and watch me take all challengers." Then he goes back to the way he was during his US title buildup.
Thats the only way I can see him being over. He shows sparks of wrestling talent, but he has gotten fucking lazy since he won the title.

...AND THAT FUCKING SPINNER BELT PISSES ME OFF! Sure, go ahead Cena, shit on the reputation of the belt. Your fanbois and fangirls will love you for it. Wrestling fans will say fuck you and you'll quickly find yourself completely unrespectable.

But, I suppose there is a way that I can insult a wigger horribly (I roomed with one when I was in the military, definately not my choice, he was wigger/metrosexual. After his pedicure/manicure, he was thuggin around with his homies.) CENA IS A SELLOUT. Plain and simple. Just like FEminem. Fucking sellout.

Of course, I hate rap, so.... yeah, he gets no bonus points in that department.

In closing, Vermaat.. I'm gonna keep praying for something in your brain to snap and you join the rest of society. Now, until then, go wear your baggy pants around your knees, a negro league baseball jersey, a do-rag, a sideways baseball cap.... Then go to your room... Take all that off... roll it into a little ball.. And give yourself a "stupid clothes enema." Then jerk off to your Word Life Poster.

*Fap fap fap fap* oohh.... yeah Cena... THIS IS BASIC THUGANOMICS!!! */fap*
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Old 03-24-2006, 12:31 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BelfastBomber
Cena is a wigger. Wiggers piss off a lot of people because they are fucking pathetic. Theres a word for what a wigger really is: POSER.
Yeah, another concept that Vermaat is in denial of. It's a simple formula really: "If you are white + acting black = wigger"
Cena has even admitted in an interview a while ago (I believe it was Byte, could be wrong) that he had only gotten into rap just prior to his character with WWE. Get that Vermaat, Cena is playing a character...and it's not a direct representative of his culture...he's playing a wigger. People are generally sick of wiggers and that's why they love to see Cena get his ass beat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BelfastBomber
There is a way to redeem Cena: Fans boo him, so he says (I'm not going to use wigger-speak for this): "You wanna boo me? Fine. Fuck you. I'm still the champ and theres not a damn thing you can do about it but sit on your fat ass and watch me take all challengers."
This has actually been touched on a couple times by Cena and the WWE. He started a promo defending the troups backstage in the Angle feud with "Hell, half the people out their don't like me....." Cena even cut that promo in the ring where he told everyone that was "drinking Hateraid" that they could kiss his ass.

J.R. on SNME started a line with "Whether you like Cena or not....."

So, fans are booing Cena....Cena admits that people out there don't like him...J.R. knows that people don't like him....thus, WWE realizes people don't like him. YET, Vermaat continues to argue otherwise. I think he needs to stop arguing with us and email Cena, J.R. and WWE and tell them that they are idiots and lack "logic."
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Old 03-24-2006, 01:45 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
He is T-O-D-A-Y. Literaly.
Literally? Then I guess that mean's they're interchangable...

Say, it sure is lovely weather we're having John Cena.

Oh, we're out of milk. Can you pick some up John Cena after work?

Uh oh. The electric bill is due John Cena! I better get that in soon.

Don't put off til tomorrow what you can do John Cena


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
Because Cena has been going against ineffective heels. If he went against effective heels, then he wouldn't be an easy target.
Yeah, feeding him clean wins over every heel in the business will surely make the heels effective.
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Old 03-24-2006, 03:16 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tucsonspeed6
Literally? Then I guess that mean's they're interchangable...

Say, it sure is lovely weather we're having John Cena.

Oh, we're out of milk. Can you pick some up John Cena after work?

Uh oh. The electric bill is due John Cena! I better get that in soon.

Don't put off til tomorrow what you can do John Cena
That last one...

Keep in mind, Vermaat is LITERALLY a WWE mark. Meaning that since JR always says that someone was "literally" broken in half (bah gawd stunner baby back ribs), of course he'll infer the wrong reason.

Anyway, the funny thing is, rap is YESTERDAY. I mean, pretty much, we're seeing a decline in rap. Beyond that, you look at popular rappers, and Cena doesn't resemble them. Except maybe Will Smith, or as I like to call him, "Whitey Bored." OMG, see what I did there?

Quote:
Yeah, feeding him clean wins over every heel in the business will surely make the heels effective.
Well, DUH! How else do you establish them than by feeding them to the most over face evar?
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Old 03-23-2006, 09:46 AM   #35
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PEople will always attribute the success or failure of a show to the champion, since he's supposed to be the main draw.
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Old 03-23-2006, 12:32 PM   #36
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Un-fricking-believable.
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Old 03-23-2006, 04:37 PM   #37
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Wouldn't it be awesome though? To see Mania break WWE? I mean, bad apples are already destroying it from the inside...
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Old 03-23-2006, 06:51 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Wouldn't it be awesome though? To see Mania break WWE? I mean, bad apples are already destroying it from the inside...
I wish some bad apples would go to TNA show tapings. Just boo somebody for christ sakes. (other than JJ obviously.)

I can't wait to see Cena on Velocity at this time next year.
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Old 03-23-2006, 07:02 PM   #39
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Cena will NEVER EVER go that low on the card. He is NEVER going to be a jobber.
 
Old 03-23-2006, 07:11 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
Cena will NEVER EVER go that low on the card. He is NEVER going to be a jobber.
Unfortunately.
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