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Old 12-11-2015, 01:13 PM   #1
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Exactly. Actually putting forth effort to make a character appeal to as many demographics as possible draws in fans. Going out of your way to not do that is fucking dumb. I feel like I'm repeating myself but this point is clearly not getting through.

Like I said when that quote was first made, I'm pretty sure that was CyNick setting the wheels in motion so that whenever WWE fails to produce a face of the company who is universally loved he can say "It's not that they're bad at writing a character that appeals to grown men and women who actually need depth and a story to be entertained. They're INTENTIONALLY making the character unappealing. It's genius. You guys don't get it."
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Old 12-11-2015, 09:16 PM   #2
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Exactly. Actually putting forth effort to make a character appeal to as many demographics as possible draws in fans. Going out of your way to not do that is fucking dumb. I feel like I'm repeating myself but this point is clearly not getting through.

Like I said when that quote was first made, I'm pretty sure that was CyNick setting the wheels in motion so that whenever WWE fails to produce a face of the company who is universally loved he can say "It's not that they're bad at writing a character that appeals to grown men and women who actually need depth and a story to be entertained. They're INTENTIONALLY making the character unappealing. It's genius. You guys don't get it."
I would say its harder now to create a universally liked star than anytime in history. The fans who dont like Reigns I believe will reject anyone who they feel the company is behind.

You have to trick those people into thinking they created the star, like Daniel Bryan.
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Old 12-11-2015, 09:25 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I would say its harder now to create a universally liked star than anytime in history. The fans who dont like Reigns I believe will reject anyone who they feel the company is behind.
Or they're grown adults who enjoy more depth in a TV character than 9 year old kids will settle for. But let's pretend the only people who Roman Reigns doesn't appeal to are marks. That must be why more and more casual fans are swarming to the product on a weekly basis, right? Because Reigns is so appealing to them.
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Old 12-11-2015, 09:34 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I would say its harder now to create a universally liked star than anytime in history. The fans who dont like Reigns I believe will reject anyone who they feel the company is behind.

You have to trick those people into thinking they created the star, like Daniel Bryan.
Let's ignore your first sentence because nothing in the history of anything has ever been universally liked.

If the obvious manufactured "stars" are failing then why would you not actually get behind those guys that get over organically? There's a long list of guys WWE could actually push and wouldn't have a backlash over, not even just at the top of the card. Why actively try to cool somebody off by removing them from TV or having them job every week or bury them beyond repair when you can use that positive reaction to improve your overall product top to bottom? They very reluctantly went with Bryan last minute after Punk quit and HHH had nothing to do at Mania, then again went all the way with him when the crowds shit all over Bryan vs HHH being the end game of that years TV while the lukewarm Orton took on a rusty manufactured babyface in Batista. If you want to believe that it was all genius anti booking then fine, but Bryan himself has stated he was going to face Sheamus and ignoring that just makes your counterpoint pure fanaticism.

Kids are the easiest to sell to because they are kids, they haven't fully formed ideas on who has a better workrate or who cuts the best promo or who is the most entertaining, they'll accept whoever is at the top of the card as evidenced by the woeful Roman Reigns selling a lot of merch just because he's being made to look STRONG and constantly telling them "Hey everyone, Roman Reigns is a good wrestler!".
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Old 12-11-2015, 01:27 PM   #5
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:52 PM   #6
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Old 12-12-2015, 08:16 PM   #7
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What do other promotions have to do with anything? Your changing the subject but I am right. Booking Roman isn't hard, but WWE is taking the easy way out and just booking him like Cena. They are actually booking to Romans weaknesses instead of the strengths and that's why people are turning away from him.
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Old 12-21-2015, 05:45 PM   #8
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Yeah he looked pretty cold at TLC and on RAW.

Terrible job by wwe building him up
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Old 12-21-2015, 06:12 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Yeah he looked pretty cold at TLC and on RAW.

Terrible job by wwe building him up
You think you might have missed just a little bit of time there, slugger? How about you start closer to where the shit hit the fan, like, let's say Royal Rumble (2015). Take us through let's say Survivor Series.

Please explain to all us plebes how forcing a guy like Reigns on the fans starting at Royal Rumble 2015 and not booking him like they have been in the past week and a half or two weeks was such ingenious booking.
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Old 12-23-2015, 03:01 PM   #10
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You think you might have missed just a little bit of time there, slugger? How about you start closer to where the shit hit the fan, like, let's say Royal Rumble (2015). Take us through let's say Survivor Series.

Please explain to all us plebes how forcing a guy like Reigns on the fans starting at Royal Rumble 2015 and not booking him like they have been in the past week and a half or two weeks was such ingenious booking.
I don't think he was forced. I think Rumble 15 was an unfortunate set of circumstances and mis step in booking. Reigns was hot in The Shield, and was a logical choice to push. Unfortunately they had Daniel Bryan (injury prone star) who the fans still wanted to see win the Rumble. Credit to WWE for getting him that over. They figured okay if Reigns beats Bryan then people will accept Roman add the new up and coming top face. Crowd didn't go for that so it made Reigns the bad guy to that element of the fanbase.

You still had Rollins out there as the face of The Authority and he had MITB. So whether it was at Mania or shortly thereafter, Rollins was the long term plan as champ. Likely with Reigns chasing to get the title back.

I think they looked at where Reigns was in terms of being over as the up and coming top babyface prior to Mania and decided to pump the breaks but still protect him. So to me the Reigns push was reset post Mania. They purposely kept him out of the storylines with Rollins. They did the build to MITB, which smoothly transitioned to the long program with The Wyatt Family. That was key to make Roman look strong in the ring to set up the showdown with Rollins. I think it was successful given the reactions to the match with Bray at HIAC. Then things got kinda messed up with Rollins getting hurt. But I felt like they really turned the heat up on him by having become the focal point going into Survivor Series and TLC. I felt like they did a good job showing his progression from being Joe Cool to Serious Bad Ass when he had enough of getting screwed by HHH.

To me it was a very well executed slow burn from Mania onwards to get him where he's the most over guy on TV right now.
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Old 12-23-2015, 05:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
To me it was a very well executed slow burn from Mania onwards to get him where he's the most over guy on TV right now.
Reigns is not the most over guy on TV right now. Ambrose and Ryback are way more over than he is.
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Old 12-23-2015, 08:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I don't think he was forced. I think Rumble 15 was an unfortunate set of circumstances and mis step in booking. Reigns was hot in The Shield, and was a logical choice to push. Unfortunately they had Daniel Bryan (injury prone star) who the fans still wanted to see win the Rumble. Credit to WWE for getting him that over. They figured okay if Reigns beats Bryan then people will accept Roman add the new up and coming top face. Crowd didn't go for that so it made Reigns the bad guy to that element of the fanbase.

You still had Rollins out there as the face of The Authority and he had MITB. So whether it was at Mania or shortly thereafter, Rollins was the long term plan as champ. Likely with Reigns chasing to get the title back.

I think they looked at where Reigns was in terms of being over as the up and coming top babyface prior to Mania and decided to pump the breaks but still protect him. So to me the Reigns push was reset post Mania. They purposely kept him out of the storylines with Rollins. They did the build to MITB, which smoothly transitioned to the long program with The Wyatt Family. That was key to make Roman look strong in the ring to set up the showdown with Rollins. I think it was successful given the reactions to the match with Bray at HIAC. Then things got kinda messed up with Rollins getting hurt. But I felt like they really turned the heat up on him by having become the focal point going into Survivor Series and TLC. I felt like they did a good job showing his progression from being Joe Cool to Serious Bad Ass when he had enough of getting screwed by HHH.

To me it was a very well executed slow burn from Mania onwards to get him where he's the most over guy on TV right now.
Ambrose is still more over after not doing shit for months. Ryback was more over until he was forgotten about. The list goes on. Next would be Ziggler.
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Old 12-21-2015, 06:14 PM   #13
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I thought it sucked. He attacks HHH for no reason and then goes way to far with Vince to the point where if he's not fired its stupid. Dudes just not ready for the main event. Give him 4 or 5 years and maybe he'll be ready then but I'm just not feeling him right now, everything he says just sounds phony.
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Old 12-21-2015, 06:25 PM   #14
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LOL, and you just gotta love how CyNick conveniently "left" after my post.

Could it be because he has no good response?
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Old 12-23-2015, 02:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
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You think you might have missed just a little bit of time there, slugger? How about you start closer to where the shit hit the fan, like, let's say Royal Rumble (2015). Take us through let's say Survivor Series.

Please explain to all us plebes how forcing a guy like Reigns on the fans starting at Royal Rumble 2015 and not booking him like they have been in the past week and a half or two weeks was such ingenious booking.
Quote:
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LOL, and you just gotta love how CyNick conveniently "left" after my post.

Could it be because he has no good response?
CyNick, would you please address my question?
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Old 12-23-2015, 03:03 PM   #16
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LOL, and you just gotta love how CyNick conveniently "left" after my post.

Could it be because he has no good response?
Sorry bud, I have to earn a living every now and then. Don't be so needy. I'll get to ya.
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Old 12-23-2015, 03:00 PM   #17
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Wasn't there a "we want Cena" chant at tlc? I'm pretty sure the live feed had a fairly stoic crowd. Wasn't till after the match and the next night that the reactions started to change. Which is nice and all, but it doesn't change the last year worth of awfulness they've produced with Reigns at the center.
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Old 12-23-2015, 05:37 PM   #18
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Ambrose is arguably the most universally over talent on the roster.
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Old 12-23-2015, 07:26 PM   #19
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cynick how old are u
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Old 12-23-2015, 07:34 PM   #20
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Ambrose is the face of the company. WWE just doesn't acknowledge that because if they did it would seem like they support him and then everyone would start disliking him.

BECAUSE STUFF AND THINGS.
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Old 12-23-2015, 08:57 PM   #21
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Hell Sheamus is so over as a heel with his look, Roman Reigns is over because of Sheamus. If Reigns was working with anyone else he wouldn't even be as over as he is now.
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Old 12-24-2015, 12:55 PM   #22
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Ziggler has been super over for years. I know he is injury prone and that is one of the main reasons he doesn't get the super push, but he is there in terms of the pops he gets. He is in a very similar situation as Daniel Bryan in a sense.
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Old 12-25-2015, 12:50 AM   #23
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Other than his concussion after winning the WHC, has he been injured much since? Feels like he's been a workhouse otherwise.
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Old 12-27-2015, 02:57 PM   #24
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James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
He had back-to-back injuries right when they put the belt on him which fucked him over. He's just taken time off to do different projects I thought.
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