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Old 07-04-2010, 04:53 PM   #41
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This not not, in any capacity, be blamed somehow on the referee. Lesnar came back from a bad situation and finished. End of story.
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Old 07-04-2010, 04:55 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Instant Classic View Post
My point was that at the time, neither was there under the best of circumsatnces. Lesnars got rocked and dropped, and Carwin got taken down and was gassed. Carwin came into the fight expecting to be taken down at some point, unless he's crazy, or crazy confident.
When Lesnar wins most of the time it is by GNP, so I would say taking carwin down would be in his best interest.
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Old 07-04-2010, 04:56 PM   #43
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I'm not blaming the referee or saying it should have even been stopped, I asked a question, on wheather or not you thought it might be stopped? If you watch MMA regulary, I'm guessing you've seen fights stopped for less, again not saying it should have been stopped.
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Old 07-04-2010, 04:57 PM   #44
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It's not that I thought Brock was badly hurt, he just wasn't doing what they call in MMA "intelligently" defending himself at one point. And I think we have all seen fights stopped for less.
Yeah I said somewhere else that if Herb Dean was Reffing the fight he might have stopped it.
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Old 07-04-2010, 05:02 PM   #45
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When Lesnar wins most of the time it is by GNP, so I would say taking carwin down would be in his best interest.
I think we both missed each others points. But I understand what you're saying.
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Old 07-04-2010, 05:20 PM   #46
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I was under the impression that scooting up in a arm triangle is the 'intelligent' thing to do. I'd say your BJJ friend is simply 'hating'.

I dont think the fight would have been stopped. Lesnar was rocked, and was on the ground, but he had both hands up and chin tucked in, which to me shows that he's clear headed. Now if he had one hand on the ground and another just 'up', i'd say it would have been stopped.

Lesnar balled up in defense, sure, but he pushed off and kept working (which clearly shows he's intelligently defending himself).

But yeah, championship fights do tend to get leverage when it comes to stoppage.
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Old 07-04-2010, 05:24 PM   #47
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I think we would all like to see "intelligently defending" more clearly defined.
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Old 07-04-2010, 05:26 PM   #48
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yeah, the definition is definitely loose.
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Old 07-04-2010, 07:11 PM   #49
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I dont get why you are saying its a bad technique though. He took him to the ground which is not Carwins game then put his bicep right on his throat and circled to get the good angle to choke him.
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Striking is Carwins Primary weapon. Lesnar took him out of that game. as for you your second post...Obviously he was getting punched in his face.
It's not his "game" but he can wrestle. There was just over a minute of stand up striking but that is due to the first round with Brock being pummeled by Carwin. The second round Carwin was really tired and couldn't do anything. I'd say Carwin took himself out of his "game". Not to take anything away from Brock but Carwin's stamina was his biggest enemy.

As for Lesnar's chin there was really only one well placed shot on his chin standing up and it was an uppercut. Most of the shots on the ground didn't hit his chin. He can take a pounding obviously which most people in that situation wouldn't be able to or probably wouldn't defend that good.

This match shows Lesnar won't always be able to use his strength to win fights. He's learned a lot since his fight with Mir (the first one) and I'm thinking the Cain Velasquez match will hopefully be more entertaining than this one.
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Old 07-04-2010, 07:18 PM   #50
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I'm thinking the Cain Velasquez match will hopefully be more entertaining than this one.
That's gonna be tough. This one was extremely entertaining.
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:17 PM   #51
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I know next to nothing about MMA having only seen a few fights here and there but I found that fight entertaining. From what I've seen, a lot of the heavyweight matches have a lot of "downtime" i.e. times when the guys are grappled up and it bores me/turns me off the sport.

Couldn't believe the damage Brock took to start off with, that upper was solid. I did think the ref might stop the bout but that might be down to my lack of exposure.

As soon as I head the commentator say that it was Carwin's first 2nd round I "knew" Lesnar would take it, wasn't expecting it to be in the second round though.
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:37 PM   #52
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I think there's a bit too much emphasis on Carwin apparently being gassed from some people. He didn't exactly show many, if any signs of being tired to the point that it affected his 'game', he just got taken down and choked out, nothing he could do about it.
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Old 07-05-2010, 12:56 AM   #53
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You really didnt see the heavy breaths he was taking at his corner?Or when the 2nd round started?Carwin was gasses like hell he even had to go to the hospital because if it.

Brown Pride is next he has a good chance of taking lesnar.
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Old 07-05-2010, 01:01 AM   #54
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Most fighters wind up breathing heavy in the corner, that's half the point of having a break. I'm not saying he couldn't have been tired but it strikes me as more of an excuse from people that wanted to see Lesnar get killed that their boy got choked out.
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Old 07-05-2010, 01:43 AM   #55
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I was rootig for Carwin yes but to be honest last night showed more that the heavyweights in the UFC are really really overrated lesnar has no standing game,carwin has no cardio even my boy cain only has 6 fights still fairly new to mma.
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Old 07-05-2010, 02:10 AM   #56
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It's not over rated, there are some very skilled guys in the HW division, it's just they don't seem big enough to not get bullied by Lesnar and Carwin, guys who actually cut weight to make the 265 weight limit. What the UFC needs maybe is a weight class between LW and HW. But Dana White is dead against it now, as it would hurt the first credible HW class the UFC has ever really had. Eventually you will see another class or two added, maybe closing the distance in weight between classes, nothing to the extent of boxing though, and not for a long time.
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Old 07-05-2010, 02:23 AM   #57
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Watched the first minute of the first and second round and Carwin was definitely much slower, less responsive and his punches were lacking. Looked like he threw them just for the sake of throwing a punch.
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Old 07-05-2010, 12:17 PM   #58
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Most fighters wind up breathing heavy in the corner, that's half the point of having a break. I'm not saying he couldn't have been tired but it strikes me as more of an excuse from people that wanted to see Lesnar get killed that their boy got choked out.
no he gassed himself out. He got to crazy throwing punches from the top trying to finish brock fast and punched himself out.


It happened to me in my last fight and had my opponent not tapped from the strikes I would have been real tired in the second round.
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Old 07-05-2010, 01:13 PM   #59
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no he gassed himself out. He got to crazy throwing punches from the top trying to finish brock fast and punched himself out.


It happened to me in my last fight and had my opponent not tapped from the strikes I would have been real tired in the second round.
I haven't fought, YET, but it would seem like a judgemen call. You're in the fight, you know when you have somebody on the ropes...how much do you think in that moment 'I may need to pull off the gas', or once you get in that 'dominant position', you're just gonna work you GNP?

Like how quickly do you go primal, as opposed to being able to logically see that somebody is defending your punches?
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Old 07-05-2010, 01:54 PM   #60
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I dont think theres really a good answer. When you have a guy as dangerous as lesnar on the ropes, you shouldnt miss the opportunity. However if you dont finish him right away, then your guna be in trouble.
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Old 07-05-2010, 02:00 PM   #61
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I would figure it's a feel type of thing. High risk = high reward. Interesting.
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Old 07-05-2010, 02:06 PM   #62
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its like going for a risky submission or risking taking a serious hit to deliver one. no guts no glory i guess.
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Old 07-05-2010, 02:17 PM   #63
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no he gassed himself out. He got to crazy throwing punches from the top trying to finish brock fast and punched himself out.


It happened to me in my last fight and had my opponent not tapped from the strikes I would have been real tired in the second round.
You just would have raped him in the second round, and than fucked his wife in the cage.
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Old 07-05-2010, 03:23 PM   #64
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And I would have filmed it.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:45 PM   #65
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At one point Lesnar put his huge ass forearms crossed over his face and Carwin threw about 15-20 punches and hit nothing but arm. And Lesnar was actually throwing a hammer fist or two while he did this to let the ref know he was still fighting. It was rather brilliant. When he jumped out of mount position in the 2nd round, everyone in the house yelled " WTF IS HE DOING! " then we all noticed the choke and were like " oh holy shit! this guy ".
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Old 07-05-2010, 07:59 PM   #66
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Great ppv..

WAR Leban

Carwin/Lesnar will be a classic feud.. Good to see Lesnar show some humility after the fight also..
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Old 07-05-2010, 08:00 PM   #67
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Sherdog is an absolute mess right now. It's so awesome.

Every thread is either shitting all over Lesnar, making excuses for Carwin, or explaining why Fedor is better than Lesnar.
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Old 07-05-2010, 08:04 PM   #68
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I like how Carwin winked at Lesnar and Lesnar smiled before the start of the first round. It's like they knew they were putting on a good show for everyone and felt good about it.
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Old 07-05-2010, 08:11 PM   #69
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Sherdog forums are always a mess..
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Old 07-05-2010, 08:19 PM   #70
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True that homes.
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Old 07-05-2010, 08:25 PM   #71
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I love how focus immediately changes to the next guy that's going to "beat the fuck" out of Lesnar. Now all of the Cain nuthuggers are rearing their ugly heads.

Personally, I don't think Cain has the size or the power to win against Brock. If he doesn't have an expert game plan, it's curtains.
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Old 07-05-2010, 08:27 PM   #72
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Cain better have the technique to counter Lesnar's size. I have not seen any of his fights but he looks like Lesnar can just sit on him and make him submit. What's his deal? Boxer? Ju-Jitsu?
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Old 07-05-2010, 08:46 PM   #73
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wrestler
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Old 07-05-2010, 09:19 PM   #74
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wrestler
I want to say he will die in the ring, I really do.. But I will see some of his matches first.
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Old 07-05-2010, 09:34 PM   #75
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Great ppv..

WAR Leban

Carwin/Lesnar will be a classic feud.. Good to see Lesnar show some humility after the fight also..
Leban, Bonner...holy fuck these matches delivered! and they had to because the undercard was absolutely electrifying!

I can't wait for a Brock/Carwin 2
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Old 07-05-2010, 09:36 PM   #76
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I like how Carwin winked at Lesnar and Lesnar smiled before the start of the first round. It's like they knew they were putting on a good show for everyone and felt good about it.
That was the second, and it was awesome! Alsmost like Carwin got it (what it feels like to hold an entire crowd in the palm of his hand ala Wrestling) Brock was right at home with this shit.

I agree with Dana, and I quote, 'Holy Shit".
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Old 07-05-2010, 09:38 PM   #77
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Leben is extremely adamant about wanting to coach TUF and go against Wandy. I wonder if Dana will grant the wish.
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Old 07-05-2010, 10:22 PM   #78
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Leban is a tough guy and all but I still can't stand him.
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Old 07-05-2010, 11:36 PM   #79
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Leben is extremely adamant about wanting to coach TUF and go against Wandy. I wonder if Dana will grant the wish.
Leben is extemely adamant about coaching, and it seems to have had a profound effect on his own progression. I hope he gets the chance to go on the Show with Vandy, who is also an excellent coach. and then they can bang it out.

After pulling such double duty, and delivering on each card, it's the LEAST Dana could do for the guy...even if he's just considering it. FFS, Leben is hot right now, why wouldn't zuffa wanna cash in on that wave of popularity (not to mention he's barking up the tree of a man nicknamed the AXE MURDERER)
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Old 07-06-2010, 12:10 AM   #80
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Just watched it. Awesome awesome shit.
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