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Old 11-27-2012, 05:14 PM   #41
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I thought Simon Dean would at least have a mid card title run. Loved that gimmick. Was gutted when he just disappeared.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:17 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
I don't get all the test love. He was pretty average.
He had a great look with the long hair. Was alot better in the ring than people give him credit for. And the angle was pretty hot with the marriage and then HHH "stealing" Stephanie.

Could have been a big fucking angle and elevated Test to the top.

I think its less of a "Man we love Test and wish he had a better run" and more of a "Man, that could have been a big angle" mentality.

so basically you have a Hoss, not bad in the ring, good look. You had a top Heel. You had a Hot angle. And somehow all that came from it was Test facing Shane and sticking in the mid card, and annoying Stephanie. Typical HHH/MacMahon "spotlight" stealing.

Test was the first person to hit HHH's class ceiling
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:18 PM   #43
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The Brood had a guy designated as their leader and they had a good talker. The big issue with the Brood was that the leader and the talker were two different people.

That said, I would have bought the SHIT out of a "The Freaks Come Out at Night" shirt.
Right, but they could have gotten by as a face stable for a nice little run selling some merch and then turned Gangrel on Edge and Christian. Essentially the same thing they did, but keep the brood together longer before splitting them.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:20 PM   #44
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MVP should have been drafted to Raw in 2007/08. He was a big heel, he was over, and had just won over a lot of the doubters with some epic battles with Benoit. Instead they left him on Smackdown, turned him face and then drafted him to Raw. By then all his momentum was dead and so was his career. Guy could have been big.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:35 PM   #45
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He had a great look with the long hair. Was alot better in the ring than people give him credit for. And the angle was pretty hot with the marriage and then HHH "stealing" Stephanie.

Could have been a big fucking angle and elevated Test to the top.

I think its less of a "Man we love Test and wish he had a better run" and more of a "Man, that could have been a big angle" mentality.

so basically you have a Hoss, not bad in the ring, good look. You had a top Heel. You had a Hot angle. And somehow all that came from it was Test facing Shane and sticking in the mid card, and annoying Stephanie. Typical HHH/MacMahon "spotlight" stealing.

Test was the first person to hit HHH's class ceiling
I LOVED Test towards the end of his first run and was pretty geeked to see him in ECW. Him and Knox were a bad ass tag team.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:44 PM   #46
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Every WCW guy who game in after the invasion and was fed to Trips.

Still think Steiner/Goldberg should of been bigger deals than they were.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:51 PM   #47
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Still disappointed that Taz was relegated to the Hardcore Division when his talent, mic work and attitude could have placed him in the mid to upper-mid card. ECW Taz was one of my all time favorites and as soon as he came in and got beat by HHH it was over.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:58 PM   #48
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Loved the Brood. I never liked Test, everytime he came on it was very meh to me.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:46 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanso View Post
He had a great look with the long hair. Was alot better in the ring than people give him credit for. And the angle was pretty hot with the marriage and then HHH "stealing" Stephanie.

Could have been a big fucking angle and elevated Test to the top.

I think its less of a "Man we love Test and wish he had a better run" and more of a "Man, that could have been a big angle" mentality.

so basically you have a Hoss, not bad in the ring, good look. You had a top Heel. You had a Hot angle. And somehow all that came from it was Test facing Shane and sticking in the mid card, and annoying Stephanie. Typical HHH/MacMahon "spotlight" stealing.

Test was the first person to hit HHH's class ceiling
You pretty much said it for me. He was over because of the angle. Not because of his individual talent. He wasn't bad. Certainly intercontinental champion worthy, but he lacked the charisma, and personality to be a top guy. While good in the ring, he wasn't near good enough to make up for the previous mentioned problems.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:50 PM   #50
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I thought the whole "Testicles" thing was silly, stupid, and forced.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:18 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLVH84 View Post
I thought the whole "Testicles" thing was silly, stupid, and forced.
Who is the biggest money making rassler in Japan in terms of most yen made? Is it Giant Bernard (jap albert) or Stan Hansen or Bobby Jaggers?
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:37 PM   #52
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Col. Debeers racist gimmick in the AWA. If he were promoted as a face he would have probably been the biggest star in wrestling.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:38 PM   #53
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Who is the biggest money making rassler in Japan in terms of most yen made? Is it Giant Bernard (jap albert) or Stan Hansen or Bobby Jaggers?
That's easy. It's Brad Armstrong.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:41 PM   #54
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They're dropping the ball right now by not hiring Bobby Eaton to lead them into a new era.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:44 PM   #55
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He has so much to offer.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:11 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
You pretty much said it for me. He was over because of the angle. Not because of his individual talent. He wasn't bad. Certainly intercontinental champion worthy, but he lacked the charisma, and personality to be a top guy. While good in the ring, he wasn't near good enough to make up for the previous mentioned problems.
Fair. though he wouldnt be the first guy to ever get over on angle and opponent alone. Maybe he grows into it. Maybe not. But I dont think he veer should have been a top guy, but could have had a nice program at the top and gotten some big matches out of him. Some guys just need the chance to run with the ball to ever break free.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:58 PM   #57
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Who is the biggest money making rassler in Japan in terms of most yen made? Is it Giant Bernard (jap albert) or Stan Hansen or Bobby Jaggers?
Stan Hansen
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:19 PM   #58
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Raven in the WWE.

He'd been in Federation earlier in his career, but never with his Raven character. They brought him in and immediately put him into a feud with fellow ex-ECW star Tazz, which wasn't a horrible idea, but certainly a waste of talent of both men. If they had pushed Raven as a main event star and given him his loyal following in the Flock, Raven always had the mic skills and in-ring skill to be a big time player.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:25 PM   #59
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Raven was too much of a dopehead to ever give a meaningful push. He peaked in WCW and would have achieved more if it wasn't for him being an arrogant jackass.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:29 PM   #60
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Col. Debeers racist gimmick in the AWA. If he were promoted as a face he would have probably been the biggest star in wrestling.
Fucking LOVED Col. Debeers. He should have been huge, dammit.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:29 PM   #61
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lol. Incredible.
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:18 AM   #62
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Feel like Raven is a bit overrated.
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:38 AM   #63
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I don't. The biggest problem with WWE Raven was that he wasn't put in a position to do anything of note: you know, be that psychologcal heel in a meaningful feud (could have had some "mind games" shit with Taker, for example) or even just some straight up matches. Instead, he was relegated to the requisite "bring a shopping cart full of random shit to throw in the ring" Hardcore matches that Vince seemed to think made up the entirety of ECW.

Also, as to the subject of Taz(z): even well before the HHH potential goldmine in the champion vs champion match... he was white hot ON HIS SUPPOSED SURPRISE DEBUT! You have the whole arena going "WE WANT TAZZ!" during Angle's promo, and the place going monkeyshit when the Red Hook Midget comes out and goes over Kurt freakin' Angle. Then, suddenly, he's on Heat duty... meanwhile, they tried to build Rodney Mack up: basically a black Tazz, at the same time they're burying the real one. Would be like (hypothetically- I'm using some anacronisims) if they pushed a debuting Jack Swagger as a major player now on RAW while still having Kurt under contract and jobbing out on NXT.
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:39 AM   #64
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Stan Hansen
Haha it was a trick question. The correct answer is Vader. I looked it up on Japrasslershavemostgoodworkrate.jp
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:19 AM   #65
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Quote:
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I don't. The biggest problem with WWE Raven was that he wasn't put in a position to do anything of note: you know, be that psychologcal heel in a meaningful feud (could have had some "mind games" shit with Taker, for example) or even just some straight up matches. Instead, he was relegated to the requisite "bring a shopping cart full of random shit to throw in the ring" Hardcore matches that Vince seemed to think made up the entirety of ECW.

Also, as to the subject of Taz(z): even well before the HHH potential goldmine in the champion vs champion match... he was white hot ON HIS SUPPOSED SURPRISE DEBUT! You have the whole arena going "WE WANT TAZZ!" during Angle's promo, and the place going monkeyshit when the Red Hook Midget comes out and goes over Kurt freakin' Angle. Then, suddenly, he's on Heat duty... meanwhile, they tried to build Rodney Mack up: basically a black Tazz, at the same time they're burying the real one. Would be like (hypothetically- I'm using some anacronisims) if they pushed a debuting Jack Swagger as a major player now on RAW while still having Kurt under contract and jobbing out on NXT.

Rodney Mack was well after Tazz was retired and announcing. And Rodney was nothing like Tazz...Not sure at all what you are getting at here.

Tazz - Suplex Machine with Submission Finisher.

Rodney Mack - Angry Black man going after the white authority.

Two Years apart.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:19 AM   #66
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Basically the same thing.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:21 AM   #67
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Quote:
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Feel like Raven is a bit overrated.
Raven was very good at times, but the boat sailed on him years before.

His gimmick in 1996 was great in a post grunge world where he was basically a Heel Kurt Cobain in ECW. In WCW they rehashed it. By 2000 he was completely stale.

WHAT ABOUT ME? WHAT ABOUT RAVEN? gets old after 5 years of no character development.

Though I dug his look when he went blonde and wore a kilt.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:35 AM   #68
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He was doing good stuff on Heat, the Seven sins stuff from what I remember, but pretty much everyone from ECW was lumped into the same jobber/mid card slot regardless of ability or overness.

Plus Raven is great
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:47 AM   #69
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Raven was great from 96 to 98.

Then he was stale bread.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:49 AM   #70
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I liked Tazz, but as soon as he left ECW he was on borrowed time. He is a product of Heyman and ECW. You saw the same thing with Raven, Sandman, Douglas etc.

Leave Heyman and the thing giving you success and the flaws show and its all over.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:13 AM   #71
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Sandman was never going to be as big anywhere but ECW, his gimmick wasn't going to be allowed to work anywhere else and take away his entrance and you're left with a drunk guy swinging a cane. Taz and Raven coulda been used better, most guys being brought incould of been, feel like they really dropped the ball with Rhino though, last holder of the ECW title and they didn't make use of it, could of been a nice gimmick if they let him go over a few higher ups.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:57 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanso View Post
I liked Tazz, but as soon as he left ECW he was on borrowed time. He is a product of Heyman and ECW. You saw the same thing with Raven, Sandman, Douglas etc.

Leave Heyman and the thing giving you success and the flaws show and its all over.
Yeah, I hear you.

Good Performer + Proper Booking = Strong Showing

Good Performer + Improper Booking = Mediocre Showing
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:27 PM   #73
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Tazz was very limited in alot of ways.

His in your face threats and violence was going to be toned down i nthe WWE (no Fuck the World Champion)

He was a goddamn midget. Thats all you can say. He wasnt big enough to translate his style onto the bigger WWE wrestlers.

He had flaws, but Heyman worked around them, like with most of his misfit toys. Vince didnt care to even try that.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:29 PM   #74
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WWE is notorious for that.

Instead of taking a circle piece and trying to find a circle hole to go through, they present a square hole and if you can fit through it, Good Luck in your future en-devours.
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:48 PM   #75
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Right to Censor was awesome, looked a threat at first but meh in the end.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:15 PM   #76
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Rhino is another good example. The guy was a monster in ECW - if they had translated that into his stint in the WWE he could have been a big player. The problem is that he was an ECW/Paul Heyman guy and he wasn't the right height or weight for them to ever consider him anything more than a mid-card player. The fact is that Rhino had the in-ring skill, the look and the intensity in the ring to be a major player, but they just let it slip by without ever cashing in.

The same thing goes for Sandman. If they had let him do his thing in the WWE like he did his thing in ECW, he would've gotten over huge. If ECW had the money to buy the rights to use "Enter Sandman", there's no excuse for WWE not buying the license to use it as well. Remember that his entrance into the WWE world was before the PG-Era, so having him come through the crowd drinking beer and caning himself in the face would've been acceptable. Imagine a gigantic audience screaming the lyrics to "Enter SAndman" as he made his way to the ring. It could've been an awesome mid-card attraction at the very least.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:25 PM   #77
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I'm not sure ECW did buy the rights to Enter Sandman, or any of the well-known songs they used for themes actually. Pretty sure I read somewhere that they just used them and were just small enough to stay under the radar and get away with not being sued.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:51 PM   #78
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Sandman is a different beast, though. I can see them not "risking" the investment in him aside from the cigs and the self-mutilation, or even the personal issues that would absolutely prevent him from EVER being anywhere near a top draw for WWE...I mean, if a little weed stopped RVD from being champion, then Sandman... nevermind. Sandman's job was to get the crowd pumped and present the "everyman". WWE already had presented that in spades with Steve Austin in his prime.

Also, it was part of the whole feeling of ECW for the crowd to sing along and witness Sandman's 5 minute entrance (was awesome to get it again at the original One Night Stand, even though it apparently has been overdubbed on the DVD release), or have New Jack's theme play the whole time he's in the ring pelting people with random bullshit weaponry. With WWE crowds, not only would that would have "gotten old" like R-Truth's rapping entrance (even if you liked it or not, you have to admit it was pretty damn over when he first returned), but he would have been relegated to jobber entrance status everywhere except for PPVs just from it being too damn long for their format. Sure, they could take some TV time away from some backstage skit going nowhere... but we know that doesn't happen even at the expense of possibly adding another match somewhere. They'll drop a match before they drop a setup.

Add into that the fact that he was about as limited as a new-age Honky Tonk Man, but it could be hidden a lot better in the ECW roster than WWE. Could Sandman have been "bigger" in WWE? Yeah, but honestly, I'm surprised he lasted even as long as he did just to do the beating up of the random SyFy spoof jobbers.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:15 PM   #79
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The entire ECWWE brand should have been bigger, a completely seperate entity that was allowed to be pushed as an alternative and even a competitor to Raw/Smackdown on occasion, there are/were so many PPVs that catered to the interpromotional feuds that it would have filled enough air time without any serious booking issues. The first few shows drew ratings that weren't far off Raw, the roster was fairly diverse and it gave guys somewhere to make a name for themselves before the draft and older guys somewhere to rejuvenate themselves like the original ECW did, it's a pity it got sanititized and killed off really.
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Old 11-29-2012, 05:04 PM   #80
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Would’ve probably been multi-time world champ, but then 7/7/5 happened, and people bitched (about a fucking fake-ass wrestling character no less...)
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