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Old 07-24-2004, 04:36 AM   #41
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I think they should delay the Orton/Evolution/Benoit thing. If it's rushed, they could lose future talent. I'd have a controversal "title win" by Triple H on RAW. Have Triple H take the lead and have him go outside as the timer runs out. Earl Hebner counts Triple H just as the buzzer goes off. Since the ref never made the call during the duration of the match, Triple H crowns himself the new World Heavyweight Champion. Out comes Vince McMahon who says that officially Triple H was counted out, even if the bell wasn't rung before time. He restarts the match under sudden death format.

During the restarted match, out runs Orton, which accidentally leads to Triple H getting put in the Crippler Crossface and having to tap out. This puts heat between Triple H and Orton. Triple H does his demanding the title skit, and Bischoff says he just can't give the shot to Triple H. He will crown a new contender in a Battle Royale. In my dream world, The Rock would stampede to the ring and give Triple H some competition. Triple H wins the Battle Royale, but only after massive interference by Evolution (namely Batista). Vince McMahon makes the match at Summerslam in a Triple Threat Match. Maybe a 2/3 Falls-ish stipulation could be introduced. BBenoit retains cleanly with a final submission over The Rock. Orton accidentally costs Triple H the match again, as Batista enters a full-fledged program with The Rock.

Also at Summerslam, Batista not only goes over Chris Jericho again, but also teams with Ric Flair against William Regal & Eugene (in which the faces go over). If you are deadset against Batista doing double duty, you can have Bischoff take his place alongside Ric Flair.

Anyway long story short. Eventually Orton takes the title away from Benoit under Triple H's nose, leading to a big match between the two at WrestleMania.
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Old 07-24-2004, 05:24 AM   #42
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As far as Orton not being "ready" for the world title, I think that once he got a clean win over Mick Foley (In a hardcore match no less) that should have solidified him as "ready". Granted, WWE hasn't really built on the momentum from the Foley match but it was still HUGE.
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Old 07-24-2004, 07:21 AM   #43
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am I the only one here who think Orton is not even worth of the world title mean i want tink Y2j or edge to get it before some dam rookie who doesn't even desiver to be in wwe get it come on we need people like mick foley and Rock winning titles not begin beat by asshole like Orton
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Old 07-24-2004, 10:47 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teenager-icon
am I the only one here who think Orton is not even worth of the world title mean i want tink Y2j or edge to get it before some dam rookie who doesn't even desiver to be in wwe get it come on we need people like mick foley and Rock winning titles not begin beat by asshole like Orton
TS6 termination mode: ON.
Target Set.
Begin Sequence.


"Y2j is worth of the world title and Orton is free of any sivers and we need old guys who don't even work for the company anymore except on a biyearly basis come on go guys win titles and dont let newguys win the titles cause they dont even get rid of sivers like you do"

Let me begin, dumbass, by saying . I say that because people like you make me sad. How many times must I repeat myself here? READ A BOOK! Face v. face doesn't work except at WrestleMania. You want to know why? Who would you root for? Personally, I think you'd be a dumbass and would try to start a "What" chant and laugh to yourself about the clever originality of the gag while everyone around you wished you were dead. But everybody else in the arena would be split. Some would chant "Benoit" while others "Y2J" or "Rocky!" and the match would lose something that we who don't live with our heads up our asses call "HEAT" that is, the enjoyability of the match. YOu see, at Wrestlemania, the matches have a kind of immunity. It's an oppertunity for us fans to find out who would win in a fight. Both men shake hands respectfully afterwards, and we cheer for the winner. At any other PPV it doesn't matter who wins...both men lose overness. There will always be somebody who will say "I think Y2J should have won. He's obviously better!" And suddenly to the individual, Benoit is no longer a credible champion, and for as long as he's champ, he will be a heel to them.
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Old 07-24-2004, 11:18 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Teenager-icon
am I the only one here who think Orton is not even worth of the world title mean i want tink Y2j or edge to get it before some dam rookie who doesn't even desiver to be in wwe get it come on we need people like mick foley and Rock winning titles not begin beat by asshole like Orton
lol.
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Old 07-24-2004, 12:27 PM   #46
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Maybe it's too early, but I sure would love to see Orton with that big gold belt around his waist.
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Old 07-24-2004, 12:50 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teenager-icon
am I the only one here who think Orton is not even worth of the world title mean i want tink Y2j or edge to get it before some dam rookie who doesn't even desiver to be in wwe get it come on we need people like mick foley and Rock winning titles not begin beat by asshole like Orton
Your typing makes my eyes sad.
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Old 07-24-2004, 12:50 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaton
Maybe it's too early, but I sure would love to see Orton with that big gold belt around his waist.
Team him up with Rico. I'm sure that guy's got a ton of gawdy jewelry in his closet.
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Old 07-24-2004, 01:23 PM   #49
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THis Viacom renegotiations for Raw really makes me believe that an Orton/Benoit main event would be more likely than a HHH/Benoit main event. The Orton/Benoit match opens up a whole can of storyline worms, while the HHH/Eugene angle can come to a climax sometime in the near future moving into the breakup of Evolution. If I were Vince, here's how I'd do it.

Booker: Say, Vince, the writing staff and I have come up with a good idea for the breakup of Evolution.

Vince: Evolution breakup? Sounds good, but save it until after Summerslam so we can get the most ratings for Raw before our contract with Viacom gets up.
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Old 07-24-2004, 06:10 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
Actually, if Benoit loses the Title this Monday, there is a good chance HHH will not face hum at Summerslam. But, it's wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy to early for Orton to be in a World Title match. Orton has got "Rock" momentum that he had right before Summerslam 98. He needs to go babyface before he gets the Title.
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Old 07-24-2004, 06:14 PM   #51
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I dunno... this rumor about HHH vs. Eugene and Benoit vs. Orton @ SummerSlam is on the main page now. I'm thinking it's true.

I will SO go LC if Orton wins the title!
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Old 07-24-2004, 06:15 PM   #52
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Oton beating Benoit now would be stupid. There'd be no build up to Orton's big title win plus it's way to early
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Old 07-24-2004, 06:21 PM   #53
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^^Yeah, exactly.
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Old 07-24-2004, 06:30 PM   #54
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Both valid points.

But RANDY ORTON WOULD BE WORLD CHAMPION.

If it wasn't for the way they have misused Orton since the Foley match, it wouldn't be too soon. There wouldn't need to be a huge build to a Benoit-Orton feud. The background could just be that Orton and Benoit have both looked unstoppable and now they go one on one to see who can be stopped. I'd prefer that over some lame "I cost you some matches, you cost me some matches, then we wrestle at the PPV" feud.
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Old 07-24-2004, 06:34 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
^^Yeah, exactly.
I love your ladder match idea. Mostly because that would rule live and I could see Benoit's first real big title defence that doesn't involve HHH or HBK.
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Old 07-24-2004, 08:38 PM   #56
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Rock won the WWE Title before it was clear that he was ready to headline. He went form dropping the IC title as a heel to Hunter at Summerslam to winning the WWE Title not even 3 months later at SurvSer. If this scenario plays out as is being talked about, Orton would be in a very similar situation. He's just dropped the IC title to a babyface rival, and 6 weeks later he'll be World Champion. Granted thats a little less time then Rock had between titles, but in terms of "being ready" I think they are close to the same.

I will say, I think Rock was more over in terms of mic skills, but he had never main evented before winning the title, so in a lot of ways they are similar.

The good thing I can see coming from this is that I can come up with a ton of matches Orton can have between now and Mania (assuming thats against Hunter). The most obvious will be a rematch with Benoit, which can probably be done at No Mercy and maybe again at the 2nd PPV in Oct. Then you've got Edge, who can claim a title shot based on the fact that he's got several wins over Randy. Whenever Shelton gets back they could have some matches (probably not worthy of PPV, but would make very good TV matches). And then they've got HBK, who could be built back up with his program with Kane in the Fall, and then maybe set up a title match in Nov, or Jan against Orton. So there's a lot of stuff there that looks promising.

Of course a lot depends on how they handle Evolution after Orton gets the title (if it happens). Will they do a turn right away? Or do they do the smarter thing and play off tension between Orton and Hunter. Orton would act like the leader now that he's the champ, but HHH would say "no kid, I'm still in charge". That leads to tension, and an eventually break up.

The only concern I have is that this will mean Hunter will be the one to turn babyface and he'll take the title from Orton at Mania, which will suck.

What might be better is to have Orton go into Mania as the champ, and instead of facing Hunter, he faces Rocky for the title. Orton gets the big win, and then perhaps after Mania Hunter takes the title from Orton. Or better yet, Hunter never gets the title again.....too mcuh to ask for.
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Old 07-24-2004, 08:44 PM   #57
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I'd love if Orton won the belt. Especially if he got if off Benoit.
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Old 07-24-2004, 08:53 PM   #58
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The more and more I think abou tit, the more and more I like the idea of Orton being champ. He's green gold in the ring, not to mention easily having the charisma to get anyone into his matches. I can see Orton vs. Triple H, Orton vs. Batista, Orton vs. Jericho or Orton vs. Benjamin at Mania 21. Orton could really help the business if he had the title.
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Old 07-24-2004, 08:55 PM   #59
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Summerslam is in like 3 weeks though. I really don't see the Orton/Benoit Title match because there is no build. The only way I see the match happening is if HHH wins the Title on Raw (which I am almost convinced he will) and Orton somehow gets involved in the match, which leads to Orton/Benoit at Summerslam. But, it wouldn't be for the Title. If this were the case, Orton has to go over Benoit.

Well, things will be a lot clearer Monday night.
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Old 07-24-2004, 08:56 PM   #60
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And everyone get off the Orton bandwagon Where were you people 6 months ago when I needed backup in defending him?
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Old 07-24-2004, 09:03 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
And everyone get off the Orton bandwagon Where were you people 6 months ago when I needed backup in defending him?
I've always liked Orton, but I haven't loved him. I don't really either now. Orton has entertained me endlessly with his promos and matches. I'm still sure he did that slip on the turnbuckle at Bad Blood before his match with Benjamin deliberately.
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Old 07-24-2004, 09:06 PM   #62
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I don't think Benoit should be in a ladder match at SS, especially since he'll have a recent gimmick match under his belt with the Ironman match on Monday
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Old 07-24-2004, 09:25 PM   #63
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Quote:
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And everyone get off the Orton bandwagon Where were you people 6 months ago when I needed backup in defending him?
I've been on the Orton bandwagon ever since I saw his match against Smooth Robby D at OVW Christmas Chaos.

I just didn't like the wrestling forum when you had to defend him.
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Old 07-24-2004, 09:26 PM   #64
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BTW, I honestly don't think they'd give Edge a Ladder Match so soon after his neck surgery.
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Old 07-24-2004, 09:54 PM   #65
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I've been on the Orton bandwagon ever since I saw his match against Smooth Robby D at OVW Christmas Chaos.

I just didn't like the wrestling forum when you had to defend him.
I've been, I've always. YEAH YEAH YEAH. So you didn't like the wrestling forum since last year? I want answers

I'm j/k guys, I could care less if you like him now and hated him before. At least most of you have finally seen the light.
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Old 07-24-2004, 09:58 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
And everyone get off the Orton bandwagon Where were you people 6 months ago when I needed backup in defending him?
When's the last time I backed anyone up in the wrestling forum?

Besides, a lot of the OPrton opponents have valid points. Orton is being shoved down our throats. Oversaturation is one of the surestways to killoff interest. It's a miracle that Orton's over.
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Old 07-24-2004, 10:09 PM   #67
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Yeah, you never liked Orton, so I would't expect backup from you.

Oversaturation is what the WWE loves to do these days anyway. Look at Brock, Eugene, Cena. You can't really say it's a "miracle" Orton is over. What's the WWE suppossed to do to get someone over? Just let them sit back and do nothing. In this day and age, wrestling fans don't have a lot of patience. You can't build guys up for years like back in the day anymore. Once a guys hot, you push him.

And if the fans were getting tired of Orton being shoved down "our" throats, I don't think they would be cheering him as a heel now. So the WWE's plan worked if he's getting cheered as a heel.
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Old 07-24-2004, 10:23 PM   #68
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I actually don't hate Orton, I find him to be funny at times, mostly with his facial expressions, he's hit and miss on the mic. His ring work will be fantastic one day, you can see glimpses of this in hos current ring work, he's still a ltitle green that's all. In a yera or two he'll be great. Right now though him getting the world title is just a bad bad idea, he's over but what next? He needs to chase it, his first title win needs to be as a face and in needs to be much later.

The one only thing that really has gotten on my neres was the incessant posts about Orton, I'm suprised we didn't get any with titles like: Orton uses Colgate Total Details Inside, I think this moslty stems from a lot of the newer posters wanting to get acknowledged by LC (half of them even pretty much said so in their posts, see what you've done LC ) Actually I lied there's two tings, the other is that the RKO lacks impact, something that will come with time I hope.
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Old 07-24-2004, 10:24 PM   #69
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I think, looking back, I really didn't start liking Orton until he started becoming a heel, with the RNN stuff, but I really started liking him when he joined Evolution.

His career path is very, almost eerily similar to The Rock's career. When he first started off as a face, it was very Rocky Maivia-ish.
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Old 07-24-2004, 10:25 PM   #70
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yeah, like I said once before, once Orton goes babyface, I think he'll do the RKO's like DDP's Cutters. He'll start hitting them from various spots. It's more of a babyface kind of thing.
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Old 07-24-2004, 10:25 PM   #71
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Same thing annoyed me with all of these posts about Carmella out of nowhere. I kinda hope that none of em get hired.
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Old 07-24-2004, 10:26 PM   #72
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I wouldn't say Eugene was really shoved at us as aggressively as Orton.

However, oversaturation with Eugene caused him to start losing cheers really fast.

A lot of people DID get tired of Randy Orton being shoved down their throats, so I'm wondering if you're making this argument just to sound like a fuckwit, or if you can't stop humping his leg long enough to dial in reality for a sec.

In fact, most of the people complaining were complaining about him being shoved down our throats, undeserving, etc. This is why it's a Miracle that it worked.

Incidentally, there is a difference between marketing someone and oversaturation of the market. Please try to understand that there is middle ground between force feeding and not promoting at all.

If you can't get even that minor concept, then I guess I have nothing more to say.
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Old 07-24-2004, 10:27 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
yeah, like I said once before, once Orton goes babyface, I think he'll do the RKO's like DDP's Cutters. He'll start hitting them from various spots. It's more of a babyface kind of thing.
It's onot even the out of nowhere bit, it's just the whole look of the move. It reminds me off the old Ace Crusher from No Mercy. It just doesn't have that impact factor that a move like that should have.
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Old 07-24-2004, 10:31 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara Emily
It's onot even the out of nowhere bit, it's just the whole look of the move. It reminds me off the old Ace Crusher from No Mercy. It just doesn't have that impact factor that a move like that should have.
Yeah, it doesn't look that devastating as a finisher.
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Old 07-24-2004, 10:33 PM   #75
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neither did the Atomic Leg Drop of Doom
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Old 07-24-2004, 10:39 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator
neither did the Atomic Leg Drop of Doom
So what you're saying is that Orton would have been over in the 80s?
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Old 07-24-2004, 10:40 PM   #77
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Look, I'm not going to start calling you names or anything. I'm making the argument based on what I'm seeing on TV and on PPV. Orton is getting cheered against the babyfaces. Cheering usually means that people like you. People might of gotten tired of Orton being shoved down our throats in the begginning, but now they're starting to come around. It's not a "miracle" at all that he's over. Orton has been improving ever since he turned heel and people see that. Orton got over because he's good in the ring and he has a good presence. I'm not being ignorant because the facts are right in front of you. If the fans didn't like him, they would give him no reponse at all. If that was the case, I would agree with you, but it's not.

Hell, even Lara, who hated Orton in the begginning, says he's getting good. And it's hard for me to say Orton is still green. Because if you say he's green, you're kind of putting him in the same catagory as guys like Tomko, Cade, Luther etc.. Now, those guys are what I consider Green.
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Old 07-24-2004, 10:41 PM   #78
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So what you're saying is that Orton would have been over in the 80s?
fuck yeah he would have, lame finisher or not
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Old 07-24-2004, 10:42 PM   #79
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And I love how Orton sets up the RKO. The way he ducks down and gestures his hands as if saying "come on" and then BAM. Works for me. Hell, Cena does a weak impact finisher on Smackdown too and he's over. And while I'm there, how do you feel about Cena? He's getting shoved down people's throats even more then Orton and he's way over.
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Old 07-24-2004, 10:44 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
Look, I'm not going to start calling you names or anything. I'm making the argument based on what I'm seeing on TV and on PPV. Orton is getting cheered against the babyfaces. Cheering usually means that people like you. People might of gotten tired of Orton being shoved down our throats in the begginning, but now they're starting to come around. It's not a "miracle" at all that he's over. Orton has been improving ever since he turned heel and people see that. Orton got over because he's good in the ring and he has a good presence. I'm not being ignorant because the facts are right in front of you. If the fans didn't like him, they would give him no reponse at all. If that was the case, I would agree with you, but it's not.

Hell, even Lara, who hated Orton in the begginning, says he's getting good. And it's hard for me to say Orton is still green. Because if you say he's green, you're kind of putting him in the same catagory as guys like Tomko, Cade, Luther etc.. Now, those guys are what I consider Green.
Facts are rigtht in front of me.

Man, you really are a full of shit fanboy.

Lara's saying he's getting good. That doesn't have a God Damn thing to do with my argument. That doesn't change the oversaturation. That doesn't change the fact that it IS a fucking Miracle that they weren't permanently turned off by him being shoved at us.

"Bricks don't fly. Therefore, sunrise is pretty." --Lovely logic there, but totally stupid.
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