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Old 12-24-2004, 08:44 PM   #41
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Yeah why is there even a discussion about Moss?
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Old 12-24-2004, 08:50 PM   #42
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Because he missed three games altogether and in about three more played three snaps and still had 11 touchdowns. Because when he was healthy he was the most dangerous player in the league. Because teams had to change their total defensive schemes in order to guard him. Because when he was healthy the Vikings were 5-1 and since they have been 3-6.
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Old 12-24-2004, 08:55 PM   #43
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So, thats nothing new. He didn't play enough and didn't put up usual Moss numbers because of that. Plain and simple. So he didn't make it this year, big deal.
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Old 12-24-2004, 09:15 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Gonzo
So, thats nothing new. He didn't play enough and didn't put up usual Moss numbers because of that. Plain and simple. So he didn't make it this year, big deal.
Word. He still isn't healthy...
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Old 12-25-2004, 01:25 AM   #45
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I think it DIllon was shafted the most. He has had a spectacular year, but I htink being on a team that is considered a "defensive team" really hurt him. He should have made it instead of LT. TDs are nice, but if you remember Bettis had a game where he had like 1 yd and 3 TDs so I think a better gauge of skill is yardage.
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Old 12-25-2004, 01:41 AM   #46
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Well its pretty obvious TO won't be playing..so whos going to take his spot?

Also, a ton of other guys are gonna make the probowl since people won't play because of injuries
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Old 12-25-2004, 01:53 AM   #47
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Maybe an AFC back will drop and Taylor can go.
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Old 12-25-2004, 01:54 AM   #48
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Actually, forget those shifty eyes, Taylor did deserve to go, if only he had scored more than 2 touchdowns.
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Old 12-25-2004, 01:57 AM   #49
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Yeaaaah I suppose Tiki's good too. I dunno, just seems so weak compared to AFC is all.


Hmmmm Owens... I'd say probably Holt is the best choice. 8 TDs, 1100+ yards, 80 catches. I mean, playing on St. Louis is always gonna give great stats, but isn't stats what the Pro Bowl picks are all about anyways?
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Old 12-25-2004, 01:58 AM   #50
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Receiving numbers seem to be down this year, I guess they're spreading the ball around more or something.
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Old 12-25-2004, 02:12 AM   #51
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Yeah Tiki is having a great year. I think its because he changed his off season workout program (I read before this offseason he could barely bench 225 pounds, and the last time he did an upperbody workout was college ) and he holds the ball different. I don't know, it still looks mad funny how he holds it now. Whatever though, it works.
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Old 12-25-2004, 02:15 AM   #52
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Yeah I guess I'm just like most people and have a hard time shaking off the whole "fumble" label that has been stuck to him. Like even with Fred Taylor, who has been healthy and played like 3 straight seasons or somethign now, still has that whole "Fragile Fred" image stuck in my head. Maybe after this year I'll be convinced that Tiki is the man or somethingg
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Old 12-25-2004, 02:18 AM   #53
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haha yeah I guess. I don't know, you said yourself Freds been healthy yet you still consider him "Fragile Fred"..Kinda wierd

I think if Tiki didn't change his running style, and wasn't fumbling, I would be a little more skeptical but that isn't the case.
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Old 12-25-2004, 02:50 AM   #54
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Like, the entire KC O-Line is on there.

No Holmes though Granted, he did get hurt after the 6th game or something.
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Old 12-25-2004, 02:53 AM   #55
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Probably didn't help when Blaylock and Johnson both got pretty good numbers in his absence.
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Old 12-25-2004, 03:00 AM   #56
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Yeah. It's that O-Line, you could stick a midget behind it, and he'd get 100 yard games every week.

If only we had a defense to match the O-line
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Old 12-25-2004, 03:39 AM   #57
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It seems to me that you guys are basing who you think is Pro Bowl worthy and not too much on statistics. While stats are a nice thing to look at for consistency and such, they don't really show how good a player really is. A player that had 1,400 receiving yards isn't necessarily better than a player that had only 1,100 yards, especially if the 1,100 yard receiver blocks better than the 1,400 yard one and played teams like the Eagles on the road compared to the 1,400 yard receiver who played San Fransisco at home.

Sure, Corey Dillon is a great running back, but he is also backed up by the best O-Line in the league. He probably wouldn't be having the season he's having if he was playing for, say the Dolphins (look at Clinton Portis: awesome with Denver but not as great when behind Washington's O-Line). LaDamien Tomlison, this year and past years, has been great even if his team is shit. He is also one of the reasons why the Chargers are going to the play-offs; the Patriots probably would be 12-2 even without Corey Dillon.

I also agree with Moss not making the pro bow. Sure, he is one of the best receivers in the league, but he didn't really do a lot to prove that he was one of the four best receivers in the NFC. Mushin Muhammad, with Steve Smith and every Carolina running back out for the season, was the only player the Panthers had to go on, and he helped his team go from being 1-7 to being play-off contenders. Should he be out of the Pro Bowl just because Randy Moss had eleven touchdowns, even though he has only played 60% of the season? Come on.

If anyone was snubbed it would have to be Jevon Kearse, but they already have 34875374354759 Eagles in the Pro Bowl so it evens out ok. Rodney Harrison also should have gone instead of John Lynch. John Lynch hasn't even had that great of a season so I don't know why he's going other than for his reputation.
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Old 12-25-2004, 04:03 AM   #58
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Quote:
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Receiving numbers seem to be down this year, I guess they're spreading the ball around more or something.
Negative. With Joe Horn and...somebody else? Getting to 1,000 yards last week, it sets a record for most receivers with over a thousand yards in a season. We still have two weeks as well.
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Old 12-25-2004, 05:05 AM   #59
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Quote:
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Well its pretty obvious TO won't be playing..so whos going to take his spot?
I VOTE KEYSHAWN!
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Old 12-25-2004, 01:58 PM   #60
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How funny would it be if someone else got in instead of Hines Ward, and Ward took TO's spot
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Old 12-25-2004, 02:24 PM   #61
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DrA? I guess you never saw Dillon tear shit up in Cinnci when they sucked? Patriots dont have a great line that does crazy work like Denver or KC. Granted they are still good, but saying he wouldn't have a good year on a shitty team is pretty ridiculous. Since that is what he did for his entire career before coming to the Patriots. I am not saying he should have def made the Superbowl, its still debatable between him and Tomlinson though.

Doesn't Kearse only have a few sacks this season? I am sure there is D-Ends having better years then him this year.
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Old 12-25-2004, 02:27 PM   #62
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Quote:
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How funny would it be if someone else got in instead of Hines Ward, and Ward took TO's spot
Yea that would be pretty funny since Steelers play in the AFC and Eagles are in the NFC
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Old 12-25-2004, 02:40 PM   #63
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Yea that would be pretty funny since Steelers play in the AFC and Eagles are in the NFC
.. Take that Y2Ant!!!! How bout that Vikings game..
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Old 12-25-2004, 02:50 PM   #64
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DrA? I guess you never saw Dillon tear shit up in Cinnci when they sucked? Patriots dont have a great line that does crazy work like Denver or KC. Granted they are still good, but saying he wouldn't have a good year on a shitty team is pretty ridiculous. Since that is what he did for his entire career before coming to the Patriots. I am not saying he should have def made the Superbowl, its still debatable between him and Tomlinson though.

Doesn't Kearse only have a few sacks this season? I am sure there is D-Ends having better years then him this year.
Yeah, some of that is true. I'm just saying that people shouldn't their opinion on how good a player is on stats. I was just using some examples there.
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Old 12-25-2004, 03:04 PM   #65
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It would be funny if Hines played cornerback and intercepted a McNabb pass intended for a healthy Owens then

Gay ass Packers
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Old 12-25-2004, 03:05 PM   #66
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James Hall on Detroit has mad sacks, I forget if he got in or not
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Old 12-25-2004, 03:06 PM   #67
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It would be funny if Hines played cornerback and intercepted a McNabb pass intended for a healthy Owens then

Gay ass Packers
Its ok my man I have a shoulder for you to cry on.. Even though the Vikings will still make the wildcard.

LOL at the Hines Ward thing..
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Old 12-25-2004, 04:41 PM   #68
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I can't believe Stima's facts, 225 is so low for an NFL player in any position
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Old 12-25-2004, 04:51 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCWWF
I can't believe Stima's facts, 225 is so low for an NFL player in any position
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...st_person1213/

Quote:
• ON HIS OFF-SEASON WORKOUT REGIMEN Before this year I hadn't done upper-body work since I was at Virginia. In May [running backs coach] Jerald Ingram asked me how much I could bench-press. I had no idea. Turns out I could barely bench 225 pounds. It was embarrassing. I started working hard with weights, and the results were immediate. By training camp I was benching more than 325, and I'd added 12 pounds of muscle in my chest and arms.
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Old 12-25-2004, 04:56 PM   #70
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That is just unbelievable, wow, well no wonder he improved so much, strength is so important to any sports. I don't understand though, don't the Giants have a weight training program? How could they not, they are a football team? Its just weird because usually when you hear how much a pro athlete can lift it surprises you how much it is. For example Tiger Woods can bench over 300. Its also kind of funny because that means that Earl Boykins is stronger than Tiki.
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Old 12-27-2004, 02:49 PM   #71
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Torry Holt Deserves to be in the pro bowl, and what about orlando pace?! i mean my god, just cuz the team isnt doin good doesnt mean the good players have to get screwed over
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Old 12-27-2004, 02:59 PM   #72
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Torry Holt Deserves to be in the pro bowl, and what about orlando pace?! i mean my god, just cuz the team isnt doin good doesnt mean the good players have to get screwed over
I agree! Marc Bulger was fucked over!
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Old 12-27-2004, 03:42 PM   #73
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I dunno, I kind of have to trust their picks with linemen, mainly because nobody pays close attention to what they do regularly. Orlando Pace is a big name, but its hard to say how good he played because unlike a WR or QB you don't notice what they do significantly
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Old 12-27-2004, 03:55 PM   #74
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Yeah thats true, but still cmon, he shoulda got voted in. rams-eagles tonight... hopefully the rams show up
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Old 12-27-2004, 04:08 PM   #75
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Well the Rams running game was pretty bad so that has got to work against Pace
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Old 12-27-2004, 05:10 PM   #76
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Yeah they look at the teams with a really good running game, see Kansas City.
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Old 12-27-2004, 05:54 PM   #77
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If the rams just played steven jackson more, there u have a running game. steven jackson is the future of the franchise
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Old 12-27-2004, 07:23 PM   #78
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I am kind of surprised that Matt Birk made it, he missed quite a bit of time
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Old 12-27-2004, 07:28 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCWWF
That is just unbelievable, wow, well no wonder he improved so much, strength is so important to any sports. I don't understand though, don't the Giants have a weight training program? How could they not, they are a football team? Its just weird because usually when you hear how much a pro athlete can lift it surprises you how much it is. For example Tiger Woods can bench over 300. Its also kind of funny because that means that Earl Boykins is stronger than Tiki.
NFL Players pretty much train however they want. I'm guessing he focused more on leg strength and running all that. I heard he used to do boxing training in the off season aswell.
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Old 12-27-2004, 07:33 PM   #80
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That really surprises me that that pro football teams don't have set weight training programs
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