|
02-03-2005, 04:11 PM
|
#41 |
|
white army
Posts: 516
|
it could have all been much simpler, after summerslam, when benoit held out his hand, another RKO, keeping Orton heel, the next night, he and triple h have a moment, and Orton gives triple h a world title shot, with the whole of evolution turning on trips,
but bygones There are probably gonna be no trades before wrestlemania, so i say an interpromotioal match between taker and orton, with orton going clean over, he can then walk on to smackdown and be heel similar to the way booker t did, when he switched |
|
|
|
02-03-2005, 05:17 PM
|
#42 |
|
Pelvic Sorcerer
Posts: 64,762
 
|
I have an idea, some one could run him over with a bus.
|
|
|
|
|
02-03-2005, 05:35 PM
|
#43 | |
|
Tongue my Fartbox
Posts: 5,363
|
Quote:
Well thats one way of getting over...run over no less. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
02-03-2005, 06:18 PM
|
#44 |
|
Now. Here. Man.
Posts: 8,370
|
This time last year I was saying that Orton would be another one of WWE's countless failed attempts at a quick-fix main eventer. And lo and behold, it came to pass. His gimmick got stale, his face turn flopped, and he can't seem to save his own hide while Batista has eclipsed him and Jericho and Benoit are still the uncrowned top faces of Raw.
But, since I can try to see the good in workers, what can be done to save Orton from going down in flames? First of all, don't try to thrust him back into the main event scene right away. The fans got really tired of having him shoved down their throats so much the first time around. Have him enter a long program for the Intercontinental Title against, say, Christian or Jericho (depending on whether he should stay face or turn heel), someone with whom he can pull off a series of really good matches, and slowly elevate him back up (not to mention elevate his opponent and the prestige of the I-C Title). Second off, don't just revert him back to the 'Legend Killer,' because there's barely anything left to be done with it. Most of the big-name legends aren't going to come back to WWE any time soon, and certainly not in any capacity to wrestle. Hogan's too damn old, Austin's got a bad neck, Rocky's going to Hollywood for good, HBK and Flair have already been done, etc. The only feasible one is the Undertaker, and I seriously doubt you could get Taker to lay down for Orton. Not to mention the only heat it generates is cheap heat, and short-term heat at that. Hell, he and Mick Foley put on one of the most brutal hardcore matches in a long time, and the heat he got from it barely lasted through the Shelton Benjamin feud. If Orton is going to be back on top, he's got to be able to generate his own heat, not get it by beating up old guys. But most of all, turn him heel again. I thought the heel Orton was the most bland and unremarkable gimmick I had ever seen, until I saw face Orton. Randy is the kind of guy people want to boo (or develop a cult following to) because he looks and acts like a pretentious dick, not because he acts like a poor man's Stone Cold/Rock. Jericho would be the perfect foil for Orton, not only because he is insanely over no matter how badly he's booked, but also because he can cover Orton's deficiencies in the ring and on the mic, and both guys can really get the crowd going. I doubt the feud would be for the World Title, but it would be a hot feud that would sell tickets, IMO. |
|
|
|
|
02-03-2005, 06:24 PM
|
#45 |
|
1-0 TPWW Chess Master
Posts: 17,212
|
Yeah I need him to go heel so I can get some more ideas for REvolution
|
|
|
|
|
02-03-2005, 06:41 PM
|
#46 |
|
One Of A Kind
Posts: 22,178
|
Hmm i havent read the second page yet but heyman no offence, but im kinda tired of the logic that as soon as someone gets boring they should go to smackdown.Thats degrading SD!, your saying basically that you should take away someone whos over on smackdown(e.g. cena or Eddie) and put him on Raw and then replace him with someone who isnt over. So by that logic, smackdown gets the boring wrestlers, while Raw gets the stars.
And then we would complain that Smackdown sucks even more. |
|
|
|
|
02-03-2005, 08:31 PM
|
#47 | |
|
Father of Hinduship
Posts: 21,083
|
Quote:
Nonetheless - I do think a HEEL Randy Orton would be enough to compensate the loss of a FACE Eddie Guerrero......especially when you consider the potential of an Orton/Cena feud. As far as the WWE is concerned, it seems like they themselves are a company who sends "boring" or "buried" wrestlers to SD, while sending the promising ones to RAW. Last year for instance - we see Matt Hardy, Chris Benoit, Edge, Benjamin, etc. all get sent to RAW......all of which have (or had) tremendous upside. Among the ones going to SD, were RVD, Booker T, and the Dudleys.......all of which who have been buried to death, or are stale as hell. Nevermind what I feel, it seems like the WWE themselves are far more biased towards RAW......their flagship station. With that in mind, I don't think its too farfetched to assume that the WWE would send Orton (a currently stale character) to Smackdown, for a guy like Cena or Guerrero. |
|
|
|
|
|
02-03-2005, 08:44 PM
|
#48 | |
|
Father of Hinduship
Posts: 21,083
|
QUESTION - How about Randy Orton vs. Christian? (Hogan, Hardy, Austin, etc.)
Quote:
 . If anything, Austin would help Orton out.  Anyways - a couple things: A) If Randy Orton (a supposed face) started feuding with Christian (a supposed heel) leading up to Wrestlemania, do you think there's a chance that the WWE can effectively pull off a "double switch"? (a la Bret Hart/Steve Austin WM-13). I know there's a snowball's chance of that happening, but I think it would be pretty cool. I still believe that Christian could be pretty 'big' as a face. If the feud stretched beyond WM, then Christian could get pretty good face reactions against a now hated Orton. As a face, Christian could also feud with brother Edge. B) Randy Orton vs. Hulk Hogan is a strong possibility. Looks like Hulk Hogan might be signing for Wrestlemania 21 (Source - Rajah.com). You have to believe that Orton vs. Hogan *WILL* happen if Hogan is signed. Orton is directionless right now, and the fans are quickly turning on him. Hogan is the biggest legend in wrestling history. Orton is the self-proclaimed legend killer. |
|
|
|
|
|
02-03-2005, 08:54 PM
|
#49 |
|
Posts: 61,634
|
I agree with ThugLife, I wouldn't like to see Randy Orton jump over to SmackDown! until AFTER WrestleMania at the earliest. That's only if they are doing a draft. I'm starting to lean more towards a ten to RAW, ten to SmackDown! draft thing, and then just have the cruiserweights from RAW sent over to SmackDown! by default since they qualify for the division (so they don't take up four of the ten slots).
Anyway, Nowhere Man brought up another point I agree with. Although I'd like tos ee Orton vs. Jericho and Orton vs. Christian, I think those feud should happen when Orton is in better shape. Jericho and Christian have found themselves, and Orton hasn't, that's where this feud would go wrong, IMO. I believe Randy should have an opponent that is also "directionless" at this time. I personally believe Shelton Benjamin could be this man. Randy Orton can have one of his moments with Stacy, then when he's walking down a corridor backstage with Stacy in tow, he stops and turns to see Shelton Benajmin leaning against a table chuckling. Randy then aks him what's so funny, and Benjamin responds with some harsh words about how Orton's splitting hairs to try and stay in the mian event and remain a fan favourite. He's got Stacy Keibler for the cheap pops, he's got his "concussion" as an excuse as to why he keeps getting made Triple H's bitch. Randy Orton then starts to get pissed off, but in a way which shows that there is A LOT of truth to what Benjamin is saying. Shelton then shows Orton his IC belt, and says that was the greatest seven months of Orton's life. He had stability, direction, and people that could help him win matches when his genetically passed talents couldn't get it done for him. During this Benjamin maintains a taunting tone, but that changes when Orton tells Benjamin he was the World Heavyweight Champion and doesn't have to listen to this crap. Benjamin snaps and starts yelling at Orton that he's beat Triple H three times, even when you were in his corner. He mentions he beat a former three-time World Champion for his IC Title. Orton stole a lot of his title wins, and yet Benjamin is winning cleanly left right and center. He's well on his way to shattering Orton's seven-month reign and he's getting absolutely no publicity for it, because Orton has a "concussion" and is pretending he cares about Stacy Keibler. Orton then goes to walk on for his match against Triple H & Batista with Shawn Michaels or just a singles match against Edge by saying "I'm above this." and Benjamin then yells down the corridor "Prove it!". Orton freezes then asks Benjamin to repeat that. Benjamin then says if Orton is truly above the IC Title, and truly at World Championship-level, he should have no problem beating Benjamin. Orton then walks off and we have a feud in the making. If you have Orton in that tag team match with Shawn Michaels, you can have Benjamin and Angle run down, playing up the current feuds in the match, and Benjamin and Angle's background together. If it's the singles match against Edge, you make it the "Best of 3" Match between the two, and have Benjamin cost Orton the match (even if it is just by standing at the top of the rampway), and this allows Edge to get a big win over a former World Champion, and it puts him above Orton. Benjamin can then say if Orton thinks he's above Benjamin, Shelton will bring him back down into his league. This feud could potentially rival Stone Cold/The Rock, and with neither guy having anything planned for WrestleMania, it will be a great match, with great mic work, and great build-up. Most of all it would be unpredictable. With both guys fan favourites, and both guys dipping down into heelism occasionally, it gives the fans the chance to make a decision. They get to choose who is the face, and who is the heel coming out of the match. The winner would also be a surprise as well. Orton can start to build-up a WrestleMania streak, and become a two-time IC Champion, and give him a character and potentially start-up a Benjamin's out for revenge storyline, or you can have Benjamin win the match, have Orton 1-1 at WrestleMania, and 0-1 in singles matches, and have Orton stay around mid-card level for a while, trying to make sure his IC Title-reign isn't beaten by Benjamin. Both open up storylines, and both guys could pull off a fast-paced match with a lot of tension as to who hits their "out-of-nowhere" finisher first. And I haven't even begun to mention how much of a role Stacy Keibler could play in this feud. |
|
|
|
|
02-04-2005, 03:28 AM
|
#50 |
|
Father of Hinduship
Posts: 21,083
|
Props to Alienoid06
That Benjamin/Orton scenerio you created was very good.
 Well done!I especially liked the part where you had Benjamin talking about Orton using Stacy as 'eye candy' to get his popularity back (the funny part of that, is that its more of a stab at the creative team on RAW than it is on Orton  ).Nonetheless - nice thinking.  If tonight's House Show was of any indication however, it looks as if *EDGE* will be Benjamin's opponent for Wrestlemania. |
|
|
|
|
02-04-2005, 03:38 AM
|
#51 |
|
Posts: 61,634
|
Thanks, I really appreicate the kind words.
I don't mind the idea of Benjamin vs. Edge at all. Who knows, maybe they could reveal Benjamin is the one that attacked Edge in the back at No Way Out 2003, putting him on the shelf. Edge and Benjamin will no doubt have a good match, but this leaves Orton with absolutely no one. Unless they set something up with Rhyno, or someone. 
|
|
|
|
|
02-04-2005, 03:42 AM
|
#52 | ||
|
Father of Hinduship
Posts: 21,083
|
Quote:
a) It's a bit too old for them to bring that up b) If that were to happen, it would be awkward since Edge is a heel right now (while Benjamin is a face). Quote:
p.s. If not Hogan (or any other legends), then I wouldn't mind seeing the WWE go with Orton vs. CHRISTIAN. Maybe they can attempt to do a 'double turn' (a la Austin/Bret WM-13). |
||
|
|
|
|
02-04-2005, 04:51 AM
|
#53 |
|
"Ask him!"
Posts: 10,075
|
How about this?
Randy Orton wins the World Title a few weeks before WrestleMania, and Bischoff turns the main event into a triple threat match: Orton vs. HHH vs. Batista. WrestleMania night. Main event comes. Batista comes out. HHH comes out. Orton comes out. The bell rings. They stand man-to-man-to-man, glaring at one another. They yell at each other. The tension is building. The crowd is on their feet for what may be the match of the night. Suddenly, Batista and Orton try to punch HHH at the same time, and he blocks both of them. He pokes them in their respective chests with his index fingers and BOOM! On the ground! HHH covers them both - 1,2,3! IT WAS A SCREWJOB! TRIPLE H REGAINS THE TITLE! EVOLUTION IS BACK! BAH GAWD!!! |
|
|
|
|
02-04-2005, 08:14 AM
|
#54 |
|
JFer Since 1999!
Posts: 35
|
^ Wow, if I paid 50 bucks to watch WM on PPV (or even more to watch it live!) and that was my main event, there'd be as big a riot as when the Raiders lost the last superbowl they were in (I don't really follow football). Sad thing is, I wouldn't put it past WWE.
Besides in my mind, Evolution is about as stale as Triple H and Orton are. But I guess that's just all factions. I sort of found myself liking JBL's cabinet, but again it got stale. To really keep a faction going, you need faction feuds, i.e. Corporation vs DX, Ministry vs Corporation, nWo vs everyone else. WWE can't even keep a decent tag division going, no way they could pull off a faction feud. What would be somewhat interesting, is if Batista didn't turn face and did go to Smackdown and then started a Smackdown division of Evolution. Almost like the many different nWo divisons. Then the Cabinet would have someone to feud with and wouldn't be so stale (Team Angle isn't big enough to pull off a feud with JBL's Cabinet) Who knows, Orton could end up joining the Cabinet or Team Angle. Anyways some more of my 2 cents. |
|
|
|
|
02-04-2005, 08:48 AM
|
#55 | |
|
Posts: 61,634
|
Quote:
Orton vs. Hogan might be alright as far as crowd reaction goes, but I think the crowd would be too much on Hogan's side leading into/during the match. And I standby my opinion that Christian and Orton could reall have a great main event feud one day, and right now it would probbably fall to shambles (although I can easily see it working, as well). I see Christian involved in a tag team match at WrestleMania, though. |
|
|
|
|
|
02-04-2005, 08:53 AM
|
#56 | |
|
Posts: 61,634
|
Quote:
Seriously. Have them really build-up a squash match at WrestleMania. No one goes into WrestleMania expecting a screwjob like that, simply because they convince themselves it won't happenBuild Batista up as a complete monster, and I guarentee when only a few minutes of Mania are left, the fans will be expecting a squash. Actually I'd rather see them set aside 30 minutes or so for the main event, then follow through with the Evolution reunion. The only thing that bugs me about this, is why Batista wouldn't go over to SmackDown! and challenge for the WWE Championship if he was still a member of Evolution. I guess they can run the "both guys aren't ready" storyline, and have Batista & Orton feud with Jericho & Benoit for the World Tag Team Championship. |
|
|
|
|
|
02-04-2005, 09:35 AM
|
#57 |
|
yes. yes. yes.
Posts: 2,753
|
It's interesting to read your views on Randy Orton, and about how to rescue him from a wrestling POV. Problem is, the WWE obviously don't view it like that. They think that nowadays if you shove someone down your throat long enough, then he'll eventually get popular.
Look at the facts, Orton is reasonably popular as a face - not Jericho level, probably not even Hardy/Dudley Boy popular and certainly not anywhere near Rock/Austin & nor will he ever be. They have tried to mould him into the new Rock (eyebrow/catchphrase's at the end of promo's/posing on the ropes) but have failed dismally, while the crowd have stayed with their normal favourites - Jericho/Benoit and grown to like people like Batista and Eugene with no effort at all. What they need to do with Orton is make people care about him. They are trying to do this with the concussion angle but again it's failing. I think a beat down of massive proportions at the hands of Evolution is a possibility. Something along the lines of smashing an ambulance with a lorry - that sort of thing. Book his match with 'whoever' at WM, then bring him back the week before as his opponent is saying it'll be a walk-over etc. Secondly, keep him off the mic. I'm sick of his face promos. They, as others have said, smack of arrogance (not just fake arrogance either, people genuinely believe he's like he is, perhaps because the rumours are that he is) and stop his geeky smiling at the crowd. How many times did the Rock smile for the fans? Same with Austin. Truth is, he hasn't got his 'face gimmick'. He's just there. Mr Wonderful. Austin was the Rattlesnake, Rock - Brahma Bull. Guerrero - lie, cheat steal/latino heat. Benoit - Rabid Wolverine. His 'legend killer' thing doesn't fit anymore as a face. It can be changed, just like Lesnar's 'next big thing' one. Face's have to be believable. Orton, in my eyes, doesn't look, act or talk like one. It's the same with someone like Christian/Angle or HHH. They CAN'T be faces. They are more popular as the heel everyone loves to hate - which is how Rock, Austin & Michaels got to where they were. |
|
|
|
|
02-04-2005, 11:38 PM
|
#58 |
|
Make the IWC Great Again
Posts: 8,922
|
It boggles my mind that they aren't going to bring in Rock. He would have been the perfect guy to face Orton.
The thing about putting Hogan on the show, is that he will likely overshadow everyone else on the card. Batista and Cena are over, but they will look like chumps compred to the pop Hogan would get. The perception would be that Hogan is the biggest star and Cena and Batista are secondary players, even if they win the major titles. I thinkt hey would be better off just having Hogan show up for the HOF and not wrestle. I would have done the Taker-Orotn thing, just so Orton could take Taker's Mania win streak. The way things are shaking down it looks like Orton is screwed. The only guy I can see him working with is Edge. I would send Orotn to SD after Mania. I would keep him face at first, and have him allign with Cena. Then do like the Mega Powers and have Orton turn heel. Then have Orton take the title from Cena around SurSer time, and then build back Cena to get the title back at Mania, assuming Cena is still over of course. Bottom line, is Orton NEEDS to be a heel. |
|
|
|
|
02-05-2005, 06:24 AM
|
#59 |
|
Posts: 61,634
|
On the topic of Hogan, does anyone think that his theme song, Real American, supports Muhammad Hassan? The lyrics of the song really help me get behind Muhammad (who I think would work excellently as a face).
Now to bring Stone Cold Steve Austin into this. He's likely going to be at WrestleMania, so they may as well use him in a storyline. Next week, why not have Triple H not show up to RAW due to sushi poisoning or something cheap like that (to avoid facing Edge), so Batista and Flair come out to talk for Triple H, and explain his absense. Out comes Austin to a presumingly loud reaction from Tokyo. Austin gets in the ring and starts ripping into Batista, asking if he thinks he looks cool in his stupid little glasses. He could go on baout how Batista thinks he kicks ass, uh-uh, Batista kisses ass, namely Triple H's. Austin and Batista then have a confrontation with Austin telling Batista he's better than what he's pretending to be. Batista then gets that sly smile when Austin tells Dave to hit him. Flair is screaming about how Batista could snap Austin's neck in a second. Batista then leaves the ring and walks back up the apron leaving Austin alone in the ring. So Batista comes off as being confident and as a guy probably able to kick Austin's ass, but above just mindless ass-kicking. What does this have to do with Orton? Nothing really. I guess they could have Orton attack Austin from behind after coming through the crowd. It just goes to show how much more of a good position Dave Batista is in than Randy Orton. I can easily see Orton playing a "Not as good as Dave Batista" character, with clips of him losing to Dave being played on RAW, and Orton kicking Austin's ass after Batista showed he was above it. Just little things that can blow-up to Orton yelling at Dave saying he stole his destiny or something. |
|
|
|
|
02-05-2005, 12:56 PM
|
#60 |
|
Less Talk, More Rokk!
Posts: 3,555
|
I wouldn't mind seeing, Orton take on Edge at Wrestlemania (All this is if they do plan on keeping him as a Face)
The way I figure it, is this, While they are in the process of making it seem like Batista might go to Smackdown, Bischoff should say, Orton get's another chance at the title, once his head get's better, which will be Set, for say, The Raw after No Way Out....This of course, will piss Edge off, because Orton keeps getting chance after chance to go after the World Heavyweight Title, while he get's nothing and gives the whole thing about how it's his time, and what not. So then, Either Edge takes out Orton before his match with Trips, or maybe hits a Edgeacution or the Edgeamatic on a chair on Orton, to farther damage his head, and cost him the match for the Title, setting up a Match between the two at Wrestlemania, possibly, for the spot to face the winner of Batista/Triple H at Backlash.... I wouldn't mind seeing it, since Edge and Orton put on a few good matches last year, espically the match, in my mind, that I throught was the Match of the Year in the IC Title Rematch on Raw back in May |
|
|
|
|
02-05-2005, 01:22 PM
|
#61 |
|
The Mink
Posts: 4,224
|
I can see Orton interfering in the HHH/Edge match in Tokyo, and Orton hitting an RKO on HHH, and then Edge spearing him out of the ring telling him to stop ruining his opportunity and trying to get him DQ'd. HHH hits a low-blow, and then pedigrees Edge for the win. Then Edge takes his frustrations out on Orton for distracting him and getting involved in his title match, which will lead to Orton vs. Edge at WM
|
|
|
|
|
02-05-2005, 04:53 PM
|
#62 |
|
Now. Here. Man.
Posts: 8,370
|
What is with all the talk about Austin? He's never going to wrestle again. We might as well start fantasy booking scenarios where Dynamite Kid leaps out of his wheelchair and main events Wrestlemania, or have Andre the Giant return from the dead just to put Orton over. All those are about as likely as a guy with a permanently injued neck coming back and jobbing himself out.
Oh, and I highly doubt Hulk Hogan is going to have anything to do with Orton. If anything, he'll do a one-shot appearance at the Hall of Fame ceremony at Wrestlemania, then disappear for another year or so. |
|
|
|
|
02-05-2005, 05:41 PM
|
#63 |
|
That's how I roll!!!
Posts: 4,437
|
THEY NEED TO GET ROCK IN FOR MANIA.
The Rock vs Randy Orton = $$$ |
|
|
|
|
02-05-2005, 06:08 PM
|
#64 |
|
Now. Here. Man.
Posts: 8,370
|
Rock's not wrestling anymore, either. He's going to be doing movies for a long time.
Which is exactly why they need to forget about all that "Legend Killer" shit and focus on making Randy Orton generate his own heat, instead of leeching off of old wrestlers' name recognition. The whole gimmick was about as long-term as Goldberg's winning streak anyways. |
|
|
|
|
02-06-2005, 02:17 AM
|
#65 | |
|
Posts: 61,634
|
Quote:
I don't know about you, but Austin staring down Batista, knowing very well he can't wrestle the big man without getting his neck broken, and Batista walking off when he knows very well he could kick Austin's ass, would be extremely entertaining for me. In a way it would unofficially pass the torch from Austin to Batista. |
|
|
|
|
|
02-06-2005, 04:49 PM
|
#66 |
|
Now. Here. Man.
Posts: 8,370
|
Being on good terms with the company doesn't mean he's going to step into the ring again. And if anything, showing up and facing off with a current wrestler, just to walk away and do nothing, would only piss off the crowd instead of make the current guy look better. It'd be like in 2003, where Jericho and Christian were constantly trying to get rid of Austin, but Austin never took it to them (except occasionally coming out and giving them Stunners) A feud with a non-wrestler guarantees that there is no payoff match, and therefore a major waste of time.
|
|
|
|
|
02-07-2005, 06:02 AM
|
#67 |
|
Posts: 82
|
TNA
|
|
|
|
|
02-07-2005, 06:18 AM
|
#68 | |
|
Posts: 61,634
|
Quote:
Well that's just my opinion, anyway. |
|
|
|
|
|
02-07-2005, 12:22 PM
|
#69 |
|
Now. Here. Man.
Posts: 8,370
|
Yeah, it's a fun question to ask, but since there's no way to answer that question, the thing won't sell.
And in the end, that's what the wrestling business is all about. It isn't about making people 'mark out' for whatever reason, it isn't about making Person A look better than Person B. It's about making money, selling tickets, merchandise, and PPVs. Every episode of Raw and Smackdown is geared towards making you want to pay more money to see the PPV, which is where you get the eventual payoff. Therefore, a feud with no payoff at all doesn't make any sense, be it from a wrestling or financial standpoint. Granted, I think Batista has a very promising future in WWE, and if Austin was in a position to 'pass the torch,' I'd be more than up for it. But he's not. And as we saw in 2003, an Austin who comes out and eats up valuable TV time without being able to start wrestling again is worse than no Austin at all. |
|
|
|
|
02-07-2005, 04:34 PM
|
#70 | |
|
Posts: 61,634
|
Quote:
There is no way Stone Cold can step into the ring, but I do think he can make money, even if it is just planting the seeds for a feud. The thing about Austin is that casual fans may buy PPVs just because Austin is on them. Granted, with no payoff there won't be a massive wave of fans, but having Stone Cold staredown Batista, with every mark anticipating Austin vs. Batista, and with smarks enjoying the storyline, even if it only goes for a few weeks, I think it might be a success. The worst that can happen is that Austin sells a few shirts (Well as long as they keep him away from the other talent on-screen). |
|
|
|
|
|
02-09-2005, 09:05 PM
|
#71 |
|
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
Give it about three months... he will disappear, return on Velocity, and stay there, for the rest of his mid-card hell career.
|
|
|
Linear Mode
