John Cena (Smackdown Spoilers)

[BatistaBomb]

this really sucks cause i'm going to smackdown tuesday and they are obviously pushing cena on the ads heavier than anyone else.being that john is my favorite out there i wanted to see him with that spinning belt and i wanted to see him walk out of mania with both belts but at least he'll walk out with the world title

[The Dub]

Originally Posted by The Show Off 1.) John Cena didn't lose to a jobber, he lost to the "second in command" in the second biggest faction in the WWE in the past 3 or 4 years. 2.) I'll take that bet, and I'll have fun living in your house. 3.) Once again he didn't job to crap, he jobbed to the "Second in command" of the second biggest faction in WWE in the past 3 or 4 years. 4.) You can't kill off a character with one loss after that much build up. I'm not exactly sure what your refering too with December '99, but if you mean December '98 when Kevin Nash beat Goldberg, and the whole tazer incident, then your wrong that didn't kill Goldberg. Goldberg still got swome of the biggest pops in the company after that. 5.) Orlando Jordan beat Booker T on a match on Smackdown a couple of months ago. Not to mention Jordan has a lot of heat behind him being alone with JBL. And it does help the build up to Wrestlemania, because now they can play off the fact that Jordan has his coustom belt that was iconic of John Cena, it adds feul to the Wrestlemania Main Event.

I do agree with you about JBL retaining at Mania, but I don't remember OJ beating Booker. I've seen OJ win one match EVER (excluding Velocity matches) and that was when he beat Renee Dupree right before he became Chief Of Staff. I said a while back that Cena should job the US title to Orlando to make The Cabinet look more dominant. JBL losing the title at Mania doesn't make sense because The Cabinet won't look as strong with everyone but JBL holding a title. They need to have Cena chase for the title and build the feud more. Cena will still be over with or without a title, so having him beat JBL doesn't make sense right now.

[Mr. Nerfect]

As I said, I hope JBL goes over at Mania, and it is a logical move, IMO. Cena's over right now, and there is no doubt the fans will love it if he wins. But I still think it could detract from the main event. Or the main event will completely blow it out of the water, especially since the US Title is not holding this match up now.

It doesn't really matter now, because I still think Cena is a flavour of the month, and his push still feels too forced for my liking. I might just be being overly critical, but I am a fan of Cena's skills, but I don't really think they're responsible for his push.

This would be like giving The Hurricane a push and the title, IMO. He's got the skills, and he's over like rover, but it would just be a merchandised push, and I really think that is all the WWE is thinking about at the moment.

[Loose Cannon]

I really don't understand that thinking at all. All of you wanting JBL to retain are basing it on giving Cena the Title in the "future" correct? I've seen this before and waiting can be great sometimes, but this IS NOT one of those times. You got to pull the trigger when the guy is hot. You can't wait on this. JBL has had the Title for how long now? Like I said, Mania is usually always the place where "babyface" ends "heel" run. It's happened countless times before.

I just don't understand the logic in having Cena lose Title matches twice in a row.

And no Cena is not the flavour of the month. He's been the flavor of the past two years, if you want to go by time. Name a guy who's been as over as he has the past two years?

And LOL at you comparing Hurricane to Cena. That's just really ridiculous.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon I really don't understand that thinking at all. All of you wanting JBL to retain are basing it on giving Cena the Title in the "future" correct? I've seen this before and waiting can be great sometimes, but this IS NOT one of those times. You got to pull the trigger when the guy is hot. You can't wait on this. JBL has had the Title for how long now? Like I said, Mania is usually always the place where "babyface" ends "heel" run. It's happened countless times before. I just don't understand the logic in having Cena lose Title matches twice in a row. And no Cena is not the flavour of the month. He's been the flavor of the past two years, if you want to go by time. Name a guy who's been as over as he has the past two years? And LOL at you comparing Hurricane to Cena. That's just really ridiculous.

John Cena will not be "cool" forever, and if he has the title when that happens, the WWE is in trouble. I still see the guy as a walking gimmick, which is where I draw the connection between him and The Hurricane. The only difference between the two is that The Hurricane does not win squash matches.

If the WWE turned the guy into one who was NOT so corny and pathetic, I think he would be a great WWE Champion. But "Poop" Cena would turn around 80% of the human race if they were new to wrestling.

[Loose Cannon]

NO, the difference is that Cena draws MONEY. KEY WORD: MONEY. I'll say it again: MONEY. When has Hurricane ever drawn a dime or even been over for that matter? I mean, do you see what your saying here?

This is like saying Hogan was the same as Tugboat, the only difference was Hogan won sqaush matches. COME ON.

"You" probably don't like him, but "you" are only 0.00000000000000001% of the poulation among wrestling fans. Cena has been over for two years now. So, in wrestling terms, two years is a pretty long time to be over, especially in wrestling today, where guys come and go like bus boys in a fast food restraunt.


No, he will not be "cool" forever. It's called changing characters. Rock was in the Nation, became "cool" then went Corporate.

Austin lost his "coolness" after a few years.

Nothing last forever and your right there.

[Boondock Saint]

I dunno. I'm on the fence about this. I think the obvious reason is that they want the US title defended at Mania so they took it off of Cena. But Orlando Jordan? Bah.

But wouldn't Cena having both belts after Mania, and then losing the US title make him look like a weak WWE champ, by interference or not. It would show that he couldn't hold onto a belt that was "less than" the WWE title. At least this way it was before he got the title and it was due to the Bashams and JBL. So it isn't like he lost to OJ fair and square.

I dunno. As long as Cena wins at Mania I will be happy.

[Hired Hitman]

As long as Cena doesn't change the WWE Championship into another Spinning middle title... I will be happy.

Also Cena will win at Wrestlemania, look at Benoit and Guerrero, worked good for both of them last year(both winning their brands title).

[Boondock Saint]

Originally Posted by Hired Hitman As long as Cena doesn't change the WWE Championship into another Spinning middle title... I will be happy. Also Cena will win at Wrestlemania, look at Benoit and Guerrero, worked good for both of them last year(both winning their brands title).

LOL @ spinning WWE title.

Yeah, and I cringe at what Eddie and Benoit are doing at Mania this year.

[mrslackalack]

Hopefully OJ's reign is short I would like to see him drop the title to Rey Mysterio on Smackdown or a PPV like Judgement Day.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon NO, the difference is that Cena draws MONEY. KEY WORD: MONEY. I'll say it again: MONEY. When has Hurricane ever drawn a dime or even been over for that matter? I mean, do you see what your saying here? This is like saying Hogan was the same as Tugboat, the only difference was Hogan won sqaush matches. COME ON. "You" probably don't like him, but "you" are only 0.00000000000000001% of the poulation among wrestling fans. Cena has been over for two years now. So, in wrestling terms, two years is a pretty long time to be over, especially in wrestling today, where guys come and go like bus boys in a fast food restraunt. No, he will not be "cool" forever. It's called changing characters. Rock was in the Nation, became "cool" then went Corporate. Austin lost his "coolness" after a few years. Nothing last forever and your right there.

The Hurricane draws money as well. People don't pay to see him, but you'd be surprised how much merchandise he would actually sell.

The Hurricane not over? He was over HUGE for a long time. He didn't get the "Pop of the Night", but he woke the crowds up, and his mask thing got everyone smiling.

I'm not putting Cena and Hurricane on equal grounds, but they are similiar cases. If John Cena had lost 3/4 matches he had on SmackDown! and subsequently Velocity, he would be a rapping version of The Hurricane right now.

Cena is over like rover at the moment, and he's been over for quite a while, but I very seriously doubt he's made too many new fans. I may just be being cynical, but I think Cena's overness can be attributed to the lack of stars on the current WWE roster. I have a feeling that if The Rock came back, and talked down Cena making fun of him, etc. Cena's popularity would decrease.

I don't know what point I'm trying to make here, but I still think that Cena's push is too forced, and his reaction could go any day of the week.

Character developement is something that could be used to try and save Cena if/when the fans turn on him, but completely changing it would just seem retarded, I think.

I have nothing against Cena as the wrestler, or the person, and if he retained his edge and made himself seem like a wrestler that occasionally raps, instead of a rapper that occasionally wrestles, I'd be the first in line to get behind him heading into WrestleMania. But right now, I feel like he's a cardboard cut-out of what he could really be.

[Loose Cannon]

You are really mixed up on what being OVER HUGE and drawing is. If you think Hurricane was/is both of those, then you can say that about all the roster.

I need CyNick to explain. You usually listen to him.

You're probably right on him selling a decent amount of merchendise, but so do a lot of guys.

[Savio]

They could have had the JBL interfere when Cena was having a match with Jindrak or Reigns then Cena could place the blame on JBL and Reigns could be jeaolous of Jindrak or vise-versa.

[The CyNick]

Look into a SD audience to see the difference between Hurricane and Cena.

Cena came out with that spinning US title, now every 5th sign in the crowd has some spinning element to it. Ive never seen anything associated with Hurricane have that kind of impact.

In terms of being a draw, its hard to call Cena a big draw, but outside of Eddie and maybe Taker (who is a part timer these days) he's the biggest draw on that brand (ie people who put asses into seats). That could be because the whole company is lacking stars at the moment, but the point is he is a draw. I've heard that Cena has actually moved TV ratings, which few guys in WWE (including Hurricane) are doing at the moment.

Saying that he wont be over forever is irrelevant, you can say that about anyone, using that logic you would never push anyone ever. The point is he was over last year at Mania, and he's now even more over, and I would say, against aside form Eddie, he's the most over guy on SD. So its only logical to put the title on him.

Building it up for another year is way too risky. Fans have been led to believe that no new stars will ever get over given the way the WWE booking has went over the past few years. Now you have a guy in Cena who the fans are behind, you have a heel champion who has beat all the faces on the brand and the fans want to see get beat, so you want to screw the guy the fans want to win on the biggest show of the year? Thats nuts!

If your idea is to have Cena chase next year, hey go for it, but why not have him win this year as well? Austin's first title chase story did over 700,000 buys on PPV, his third title win did over 800,000 buys and his 5th title win did nearly a million buys and set box office records. So its not like once he wins the title the first time people will automatically care less about subsequent title wins.

[snakeboss]

I sure hope JBL doesn't retain, that will spoil Wrestlemania for me. Cena has to win, that's why he's lost his US titles, so he doesn't own both. I'm guessing Orlando Jordan will lose his title to someone at Wrestlemania 21. I hope it's Rey Mysterio, but I hear he's facing Eddy, then maybe Big Show...

[Nervous Ferret]

Your wisdom is surpassed, only by your ignorance.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon You are really mixed up on what being OVER HUGE and drawing is. If you think Hurricane was/is both of those, then you can say that about all the roster. I need CyNick to explain. You usually listen to him. You're probably right on him selling a decent amount of merchendise, but so do a lot of guys.

There's no doubt The Hurricane isn't a draw, but I don't consider John Cena one either. Sure he's over, and possibly the most popular guy on the roster, but I still feel he's a cardboard cut-out character.

I know you do marketting, so you'd have a better knowledge than me on the subject, but I am still not convinced Cena should win at the biggest PPV of the year. I don't really know why, but I just don't see it as a good move. I'm probably just being ignorant, but I think Cena should have more depth when he finally wins a World Championship.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by The CyNick Look into a SD audience to see the difference between Hurricane and Cena. Cena came out with that spinning US title, now every 5th sign in the crowd has some spinning element to it. Ive never seen anything associated with Hurricane have that kind of impact. In terms of being a draw, its hard to call Cena a big draw, but outside of Eddie and maybe Taker (who is a part timer these days) he's the biggest draw on that brand (ie people who put asses into seats). That could be because the whole company is lacking stars at the moment, but the point is he is a draw. I've heard that Cena has actually moved TV ratings, which few guys in WWE (including Hurricane) are doing at the moment. Saying that he wont be over forever is irrelevant, you can say that about anyone, using that logic you would never push anyone ever. The point is he was over last year at Mania, and he's now even more over, and I would say, against aside form Eddie, he's the most over guy on SD. So its only logical to put the title on him. Building it up for another year is way too risky. Fans have been led to believe that no new stars will ever get over given the way the WWE booking has went over the past few years. Now you have a guy in Cena who the fans are behind, you have a heel champion who has beat all the faces on the brand and the fans want to see get beat, so you want to screw the guy the fans want to win on the biggest show of the year? Thats nuts! If your idea is to have Cena chase next year, hey go for it, but why not have him win this year as well? Austin's first title chase story did over 700,000 buys on PPV, his third title win did over 800,000 buys and his 5th title win did nearly a million buys and set box office records. So its not like once he wins the title the first time people will automatically care less about subsequent title wins.

I admit you and LC are right, but I still can't help but dislike his current character.

The only thing you said I don't agree with is the relevence of being over for long periods of time. The thing about a character like Edge is that he's got depth. He plays a person on screen, and he can change over time to develope new character traits, etc. Cena plays a rapper, and I just can't see him coming out one day and syaing "I'm not a rapper anymore." because the fans have turned on the gimmick.

Eddie Guerrero may not be getting massive ovations forever, but his gimmick is built around him as a person. John Cena just seems too 2D at this time. Sure, I'm probably wrong, and the WWE will receive a huge boost when he wins the WWE Championship at WrestleMania, but I'm sticking to my opinion that Cena is just lacking something that other stars had.

Maybe it's just I get the feeling his win would be anti-climatic? He earned his title shot by going over Orlando Jordan, a man who returned the favour this past week, and by beating Kurt Angle (no small feat, but it's not like a win over The Undertaker at WrestleMania).

If you asked someone "Why does Cena deserve the title shot outside of his win over Angle?" they'd probably be lost for words. If he was being built-up as a main eventer around the time he was feuding with Booker T for the US Title I'd probably be singing a different tune, but it just seems that since the Royal Rumble they've just moved him up out of desperation.

Cena was the pick to be main eventing WrestleMania for a while, but I still think they went about it in a lazy "Now he's main eventing." way. I'd rather see him end up short at WrestleMania, then win the title at Judgment Day or The Great American Bash, just to give it some build.

I'm sure you and LC are right, though, and the fans wil lbuy into him as a World Champion, and I will probably follow blowing Cena's horns for the several months Cena will likely remain WWE Champion.

[Loose Cannon]

Yea, I see the point you have. I can't stand Cena eathier right now, but the fans love him, so it's only the right thing to do.

I can't wait for Orton/Cena though

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon Yea, I see the point you have. I can't stand Cena eathier right now, but the fans love him, so it's only the right thing to do. I can't wait for Orton/Cena though

I seriously think that is the money feud in the WWE right now. Cena vs. Batista would be nice, but it just doesn't have the atmosphere of Orton vs. Cena.

I have a feeling we'll be seeing Randy Orton defending the WWE Championship against John Cena and Triple H defending the World Heavyweight Championship against Shelton Benjamin, and maybe Batista in a Triple Threat Match at WrestleMania 22.

WrestleMania 21 doesn't seem like a "weak" card, but I think it is suffering slightly due to the conversions of eras going on. I have a feeling WrestleMania 22 will be the first of the "new" and it will really be something to behold.

[John la Rock]

I think after Mania when Cena is the WWE Champ and Orton retires the Undertaker for good a feud between the 2 would be HOOOOOTTT

It would remind me so much of Rock vs Austin

[XL]

Just one thing...

Cena couldn't have lost the US title after Mania, everyone knows you can't hold both the top tier and lower tier titles.

Check 1990!

[The CyNick]

Just some food for thought

Hogan never really had any major backstory into winning the WWE Title for the first time, he just showed up on TV, kicked some ass, and got a title shot at a hated heel champion. He won, the WWE got behind him, and the rest is history.

Cena isn't Hulk Hogan, but at the same time, if the fans are into someone, give them what they want, dont complicate matters.

And about his "gimmick", I dont see him as a guy doing a "white rapper" gimmick, I just think thats how he is. The fact of the matter is probably 65% of kids in America look and act like he does. Hip hop is the most popular genre of music among the kids, so just because he wears throwbacks, sneakers and rhymes doesn't make him a gimmick like he's TL Hopper or something pretending to be a plumber.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by The CyNick Just some food for thought Hogan never really had any major backstory into winning the WWE Title for the first time, he just showed up on TV, kicked some ass, and got a title shot at a hated heel champion. He won, the WWE got behind him, and the rest is history. Cena isn't Hulk Hogan, but at the same time, if the fans are into someone, give them what they want, dont complicate matters. And about his "gimmick", I dont see him as a guy doing a "white rapper" gimmick, I just think thats how he is. The fact of the matter is probably 65% of kids in America look and act like he does. Hip hop is the most popular genre of music among the kids, so just because he wears throwbacks, sneakers and rhymes doesn't make him a gimmick like he's TL Hopper or something pretending to be a plumber.

That's all it coems down to, I think. It just occurs to me that Cena could be "bigger" than he is now, and his win at Mania seem even more important than it will at WM21.

[Corkscrewed]

Cynick and #1 WWE Fan put it really well, and I'd have to disagree with Alienoid at this point, for matters Cynick's already pointed out. And of course, I'm well aware that most of this is due to opinion.

I just wanted to take the to call out that OJ is going to come out next week with bull horns on his belt instead of the spinning thingy.

[Corkscrewed]

Or it'll be bull horns glued ONTO the spinning thingy.

[Corkscrewed]

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by The CyNick The fact of the matter is probably 65% of kids in America look and act like he does. Hip hop is the most popular genre of music among the kids, so just because he wears throwbacks, sneakers and rhymes doesn't make him a gimmick like he's TL Hopper or something pretending to be a plumber.

Yeah, there's definately more to Cena than "just a white rapper gimmick". I am about as far from a member of that 65% as you can get. I don't listen to hip hop and can't relate to the gimmick whatsoever. However, I am about as huge of a Cena fan as there could possibly be because he's just got this awesome mixture of attitude era face and old school "all about the fans" face and the man is FULL of charisma in a way that is really close to Rock-territory.

Plus, like his skill or not, he is entertaining in the ring and can put on a great wrestling match.

[The Dub]

Originally Posted by The CyNick Building it up for another year is way too risky. Fans have been led to believe that no new stars will ever get over given the way the WWE booking has went over the past few years. Now you have a guy in Cena who the fans are behind, you have a heel champion who has beat all the faces on the brand and the fans want to see get beat, so you want to screw the guy the fans want to win on the biggest show of the year? Thats nuts!

It's not like they haven't done it before. Wrestlemania 19? Booker T. vs Triple H?