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Old 07-13-2005, 10:02 PM   #41
Cactus Jack
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Cactus Jack has done some stupid things
^^Fucking retard!

Anyway what direction do I want WWE to move to....nowhere.....they're not going anywhere the way their going anyway so why put down anything? None of you give a shit what I put down here anyway so why ask me anything?......I'm a fucking dork what the fuck do I know?

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Old 07-13-2005, 10:13 PM   #42
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^^Fucking retard!

Why would you NOT want the WWE to move at all? Just sit at the shit pot it once was. They are doing GREAT things with this new "era".

And stop posting your sig, faggot.
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Old 07-13-2005, 10:15 PM   #43
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You spelled "instead" wrong, Terran.
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Old 07-13-2005, 10:30 PM   #44
Kane Knight
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What crawled up Cactus Sack's ass and died?
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Old 07-13-2005, 10:43 PM   #45
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His head?
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Old 07-13-2005, 11:16 PM   #46
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Erm...no I didn't

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Old 07-13-2005, 11:54 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
no they didn't. Well I never heard

And why you have to nit pick my comments. Just respond to the question. Not that hard.

Or at least nit-pick and respond at the same time.
Damn, dude. If I were you, I probably just would've been glad to know that someone took the time to actually read my post.

I think my opinion NOW is that a lot of fans are playing jokes on themselves by not seeing what's right in front of their faces while simultaneously trying to look deeper into things than there is depth.
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Old 07-14-2005, 12:41 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepsi Man
Damn, dude. If I were you, I probably just would've been glad to know that someone took the time to actually read my post.

I think my opinion NOW is that a lot of fans are playing jokes on themselves by not seeing what's right in front of their faces while simultaneously trying to look deeper into things than there is depth.
I don't think that there's any point in getting too in depth in this anyway. We can all say what we think, and when w3e THINK it became a work, and that''s about it.
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Old 07-14-2005, 01:29 AM   #49
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Moral of the story: DON'T THINK!
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Old 07-14-2005, 07:28 AM   #50
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I like the way the WWE finally seems to be changing instead of being "Attitude Jr.". John Cena and Batista have the fans full support, and the brands are seemingly evening out.

The next change I'd like to see int he WWE is a General Manager with a spine. Have Eric Bischoff actually punish Cena for F-Uing him on RAW (if I were Eric Bischoff, I'd strip Cena of his title and walk around the ring in a fairy costume, but yeah), to further the tension between them. Just a 6-on-1 Handicap Match where John Cena has to face Tyson Tomko, Gene Snitsky, Rob Conway, Rene Dupree, Romeo & Antonio where Cena puts up a great fight, but eventually passes out in Rene Dupree's Cobra Clutch, giving the heels a submission victory. Have the heels continue the assault on Cena until The Hurricane, Rosey, Viscera, Val Venis & Shelton Benjamin run down and clear things up. Just something to get the heels over and to get the faces on screen.

But yeah, I love the way the WWE is catering to the casual fan WHILE giving us some attention as well.
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Old 07-14-2005, 09:25 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
(if I were Eric Bischoff, I'd strip Cena of his title and walk around the ring in a fairy costume, but yeah)
Why would you walk around the ring in a fairy costume if you were Eric?

Or did you mean you'd strip Cena of his titlel and make him walk around the ring in a fairy costume?
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Old 07-14-2005, 12:52 PM   #52
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Its funny how some people can see the last week few weeks as something revolutionary, and all I was thinking was "hey this is WCW right before they died".

I'm not saying WWE will die, because they wont (at least for the next 5 years), but this shoot crap is really a bad idea.

The only people who "get" these angles are people on these message boards and people who follow wrestling very closely on the 'net. We've talked about this before, and I'm really shocked you guys haven't really mentioned it much, but they are shooting angle to play to less than 10% of their adiuence. Thats bad.

Hardy may have got a decent pop for his angle, but thats more because those 10% of the people who get the angle are the loudest people. The average fan int he stands doesn't get it. He probably thinks, why didn't Kane come after Edge like that? Or how many people know or care that Smackdown is taped on Tuesday? How many people know or care that RVD isn't allowed to go all out? How many people know or care that JBL roughed up Meanie? How many people even know who Menaie is?

The fact of the matter is this is exactly what Russo thought was such a revolutionary idea when he was desperate in WCW, and it failed.

Even ECW, who liked to do things that were based in reality, sure the smarks ate it up, but look where ECW is right now. That should tell you how successful playing to the smarks really is.

I will say the angle did seem different, which is good, and as someone who they are trying to play to, yeah I liked it. But there are a lot more people who would rather see Hogan pose, or Austin drink beer or Cena rhyme. Those are the things throughout history that have drawn money, none of this stuff ever has.

Sorry to be a wet blanket


Also, the idea that we are on the verge of another boom to me is laughable. You've got Cena who has a ton of star potential, but look where he is right. Just like every other up and comer who had a shot to be something he's stuck in the middle of the card. Look who is on top. Okay gret we dont have HHH, but look whats going to headline Summerslam....HBK vs Hogan. Thats not the way to make new stars.
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Old 07-14-2005, 01:11 PM   #53
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Meh, the reactions in arenas across the country have shown a demand for Hardy, and I've never really been a Hardy supporter myself.

Your "that's because they're the loudest" fans claim doesn't really hold up all that well, because then how come in every arena everywhere, RVD doesn't get such huge pops anymore? How come there are no "You screwed Meanie!" chants when JBL comes out?
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Old 07-14-2005, 01:23 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepsi Man
Meh, the reactions in arenas across the country have shown a demand for Hardy, and I've never really been a Hardy supporter myself.

Your "that's because they're the loudest" fans claim doesn't really hold up all that well, because then how come in every arena everywhere, RVD doesn't get such huge pops anymore? How come there are no "You screwed Meanie!" chants when JBL comes out?
Because nobody gives a shit about Meanie.
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Old 07-14-2005, 01:50 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepsi Man
Meh, the reactions in arenas across the country have shown a demand for Hardy, and I've never really been a Hardy supporter myself.

Your "that's because they're the loudest" fans claim doesn't really hold up all that well, because then how come in every arena everywhere, RVD doesn't get such huge pops anymore? How come there are no "You screwed Meanie!" chants when JBL comes out?
Because CyNick is kneejerking with the same outdated notions everyone else is kneejerking with, material that hasn't been researched since before WCW tanked, even though the environment surrounding it has clearly changed.
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Old 07-14-2005, 01:58 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerranRich
Moral of the story: DON'T THINK!
Be like Lita?
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Old 07-14-2005, 02:01 PM   #57
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Anyway, Cynick, I still think it's perfectly okay to go in this direction as long as they don't depend on it. Have a couple of storylines inspired by real life stuff, but don't have everything route on it. It's balance. Maybe a quarter of the angles on TV (i.e. 2-3) might require internetting to totally understand it, but the rest can be like normal.

I mean, we still have Eddie/Rey and Jericho/Cena as two really hot feuds right now that are totally traditional. Batista/JBL has some good potential. The Mexicools? Same thing.

So I don't think we're going the way of WCW... as long as we keep workshoots in moderation (or else people get desensitized to it as well).
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Old 07-14-2005, 02:39 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corkscrewed
Anyway, Cynick, I still think it's perfectly okay to go in this direction as long as they don't depend on it. Have a couple of storylines inspired by real life stuff, but don't have everything route on it. It's balance. Maybe a quarter of the angles on TV (i.e. 2-3) might require internetting to totally understand it, but the rest can be like normal.

I mean, we still have Eddie/Rey and Jericho/Cena as two really hot feuds right now that are totally traditional. Batista/JBL has some good potential. The Mexicools? Same thing.

So I don't think we're going the way of WCW... as long as we keep workshoots in moderation (or else people get desensitized to it as well).
See thats where I think the problem lies.

If they want to go the shoot route, then go all out. Have everyone hate on HHH because he's married to Steph, have people rundown Cena because he's just a gimmick with little wrestling talent, have a group of young guys who interfere in every segment that involves guys like Hogan, Piper and HBK because they are sick of those guys taking their spots, etc.

What I have a problem with is when you position one or two angles, and thats what there are; angles, on the show as being "real". That makes no sense in the middle of a show where everything is a work.

Nothing that happened between Hardy and Edge is a shoot, but its positioned as such. How are we then supposed to take these other angles that are "fake"?

And then on top of that you have the issue of very few fans not understanding these angles. Most people dont know that Edge and Hardy were ever together in real life, and nor do they care, so why waste time on TV with it? If you want to shoot an angle based on it, fine. But dont try to insult people by trying to position it as a shoot.
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Old 07-14-2005, 02:40 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Because CyNick is kneejerking with the same outdated notions everyone else is kneejerking with, material that hasn't been researched since before WCW tanked, even though the environment surrounding it has clearly changed.
Go to an event bro.

Its not outdated.
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Old 07-14-2005, 02:44 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick
Go to an event bro.

Its not outdated.
Yes it is.
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Old 07-14-2005, 02:46 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick
See thats where I think the problem lies.

If they want to go the shoot route, then go all out. Have everyone hate on HHH because he's married to Steph, have people rundown Cena because he's just a gimmick with little wrestling talent, have a group of young guys who interfere in every segment that involves guys like Hogan, Piper and HBK because they are sick of those guys taking their spots, etc.

What I have a problem with is when you position one or two angles, and thats what there are; angles, on the show as being "real". That makes no sense in the middle of a show where everything is a work.

Nothing that happened between Hardy and Edge is a shoot, but its positioned as such. How are we then supposed to take these other angles that are "fake"?

And then on top of that you have the issue of very few fans not understanding these angles. Most people dont know that Edge and Hardy were ever together in real life, and nor do they care, so why waste time on TV with it? If you want to shoot an angle based on it, fine. But dont try to insult people by trying to position it as a shoot.
IF nobody knows or cares, then surely this will be reflected in reaction. If not in the crowd reactions, then in the ratings.

But thankfully, we have you to tell us exactly what the wrestling demographics are, so we don't have to wait for pesky things like results. I mean, since you know the wrestling public so well (And how many people have you actually polled on this issue? 5? 6?), your guestimates and outdated logic will surely supplant logic or patience.

And why the Hell would they have to go all out?
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Old 07-14-2005, 02:50 PM   #62
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Meh, he's Canadian, so the people he encounters at events probably ARE mostly marks.

(to be fair)
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Old 07-14-2005, 03:00 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
IF nobody knows or cares, then surely this will be reflected in reaction. If not in the crowd reactions, then in the ratings.

But thankfully, we have you to tell us exactly what the wrestling demographics are, so we don't have to wait for pesky things like results. I mean, since you know the wrestling public so well (And how many people have you actually polled on this issue? 5? 6?), your guestimates and outdated logic will surely supplant logic or patience.

And why the Hell would they have to go all out?
Hey I could be wrong.....but the majority of things that I say wind up being true, go ahead find something that I was dead wrong about.

And if this does happen to spark a huge increase in ratings over the next few months, or Hardy becomes a top draw, then I'll admit I was wrong, but I really cant see that happening.

When I go to events, I can see who people cheer for. The majority of the fans who are the loudest are the small groups of smarks who are the same people who were chating for Hardy. There's a major difference between the number of people who chant for Hardy and just as an example, the fans who stand up and go nuts when Cena comes out. Again, go to a show if you doubt that.

Also, I'm a beliver in those who dont learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Vince Russo had this same idea when it came to booking angles, he wanted as many storyline that were based in reality/inernet as possible. Look how much success Russo had (post WWE of course).
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Old 07-14-2005, 04:53 PM   #64
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The Russo example you're bringing up is from 5 years ago. The Internet has become far more prevalent and is being widely used as a multimedia tool. Every show that has a viewing audience under 40 uses it to give spoilers or extra footage or backstage interviews. Being interactive is a way of hooking your audience. What the WWE is doing is common practice.

All you have to do is visit a wrestling website or to see how quickly the "news" leaked at wwe.com spreads to see that "smart" fans are not the only ones using the internet anymore.Or as I stated a week ago, EVEN THE RETARDS HAVE COMPUTERS.

Instead of fighting the net, the WWE is trying to control it by picking and choosing what information they are releasing. And its working.

Basically, this new era is just the WWE taking advantage og technology they've had for years.
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Old 07-14-2005, 05:08 PM   #65
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Also, this means that Russo wasn't a complete idiot...he was just ahead of his times.
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Old 07-14-2005, 05:18 PM   #66
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Russo was doing this in TNA as well, and it didn't work there.

The Internet hasn't grown that much since then.
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Old 07-14-2005, 07:11 PM   #67
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Yeah I think it has. There's not a segment of popular culture that does not use the web as an outlet to promote itself.

Plus, these storylines are pretty easy to understand even if you don't know the insider stuff. The Net stuff adds depth, but is really just a bonus. Its like theres an inside joke that the net savvy fans are seeing. But no one lese is really missing out on anything.

So its keeping the fans who visit the sites and the ones who don't interested.

Also, TNA's fan base is tiny. What has worked for them? It would be almost impossible to gauge the interest in an "insider" angle when 80% of the live audience is made up of tourists who wre just passing through the area.

You're right on a lot of stuff, CyNick. But I really do think you're underestimating the effect of the web on even the most basic of fans.
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Old 07-14-2005, 07:19 PM   #68
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PH summed it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PureHatred
Yeah I think it has. There's not a segment of popular culture that does not use the web as an outlet to promote itself.
And if you haven't noticed, you're fucking Amish.
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Old 07-14-2005, 07:28 PM   #69
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I don't know CyNick, I was saying what you were saying about there only being 10% net fans and it's not good to do shoots, but I can't deny the pops and cheers Matt Hardy has been getting for almost 2 solid months. Yea, maybe only a small segment really understand the angle, but wrestling fans are usually androids that just go along with everyone else. So if they keep hearong these Hardy chants, they'll just be like "Hey, this is cool, let's chant too."
Last edited by Loose Cannon; 07-14-2005 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 07-14-2005, 07:31 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
I don't know CyNick, I was saying what you were saying about there only being 10% net fans and it's not good to do shoots, but I can't deny the pops and cheers Matt Hardy has been getting for almost 2 solid months. Yea, maybe only a small segment really understand the angle, but wrestling fans are usually androids that just go along with everyone else. But Hardy is over like rover to me.
Especially the Japanese ones, all clapping together like that. You'd think the Japanese being technological as they are, they'd try and cover that.
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Old 07-14-2005, 07:48 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
I don't know CyNick, I was saying what you were saying about there only being 10% net fans and it's not good to do shoots, but I can't deny the pops and cheers Matt Hardy has been getting for almost 2 solid months. Yea, maybe only a small segment really understand the angle, but wrestling fans are usually androids that just go along with everyone else. But Hardy is over like rover to me.
Of course, the real tell is how successful the angle is. Not just fan reaction.
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Old 07-14-2005, 07:50 PM   #72
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Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
we're really just going to have to wait this out. We can make predictions and whatever, but it's just so hard sometimes to tell what will stick in wrestling.
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Old 07-14-2005, 07:57 PM   #73
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YEah, the end of the day it's all guess work. Logic is a tricky beast. It can justify anything.
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Old 07-14-2005, 08:00 PM   #74
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I'm just enjoying it as it is. Pretty sweet year in my opinion so far.
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Old 07-15-2005, 12:12 AM   #75
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Did CyNick compare ECW and TNA to WWE? I mean, I'm a CyNick mark, but even he has to agree that you can't try to gauge the success of WWE's new booking style on how it worked in the indies!

ECW didn't fail because of workshoots. ECW failed because they were independently-financed, and the money ran out. TNA isn't floundering because of workshoots. TNA is floundering because they have never had real TV exposure and the roster changes on an almost daily basis.

While this may end up backfiring on WWE (as the WCW booking did), at least WWE is doing their workshoot booking by building off of things that fans want to see rather than on finding the most elaborate ways of giving them the finger.
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Old 07-15-2005, 12:55 AM   #76
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Why do you guys keep comparing this to what Russo did? They're completely different.
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Old 07-15-2005, 12:56 AM   #77
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Thats a fair point.

But I'm not trying to say this one angle will hurt the WWE.

I just think that when you go by the history of wrestling, Ive never seen angles that are based on insider stuff draw money.

If it did, ECW would have caught on to compete with WWE, because people would tell their friends about all this stuff thats going on, and new fans would come in droves.

I just dont think this angle and the idea of using the 'net is going to increase business in any way. All its going to do is appeal to the fans who will never stop watching wrestling, like us.
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Old 07-15-2005, 08:23 AM   #78
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Reatards.
that's awesome
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Old 07-15-2005, 11:03 AM   #79
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I wasn't thinking "New Era due to Internet use" I was thinking "New Era due to Young Superstars developing".



..It's it wrong to check out a wrestler that's developing?
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Old 07-15-2005, 12:52 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick
Thats a fair point.

But I'm not trying to say this one angle will hurt the WWE.

I just think that when you go by the history of wrestling, Ive never seen angles that are based on insider stuff draw money.

If it did, ECW would have caught on to compete with WWE, because people would tell their friends about all this stuff thats going on, and new fans would come in droves.

I just dont think this angle and the idea of using the 'net is going to increase business in any way. All its going to do is appeal to the fans who will never stop watching wrestling, like us.
But isn't it possible that we're looking at a whole new ballgame?

ECW wasn't ecaxtly modern time here. Internet technology takes huge steps up every couple of years, and it's massively more prevalent. EVERYONE uses the net now, and that's the biggest difference. It's now so common that there are ads for products on TV with no phone number...Website only.

Even if it's not now, embracing the internet WILL become a necessity for survival alone, let alone success.
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