This new ECW is a FAILURE

Anyway, I laugh at how you claim ECW was all about hardcore wrestling. Just goes to show how ignorant you really were, since they also brough luchador wrestling to the U.S. and featured tons of technical wrestling as well. It's just that their hardcore matches were what got them the most attention, but that doesn't mean that's all they did. But here you come, spouting about how people like Kurt Angle don't belong, and how Vince should hire the Dudley's back and such. Um... they don't want to come back. Nice try. And "real stars like New Jack." Yeah. Because when people think ECW, the first five names they think of include New Jack.

Hardcore was the focal point of ECW. Sure, they brough other things to the table, but hardcore was the bread and butter. When people think of ECW, they think of extreme, of Sandman and Dudleys and Dreamer NOT of luchadors and dean malenko. They were there, but they weren't the FOCUS.

New Jack was just thrown in as an example of hardcore that ECW represents.

Also, Dudleys dont want back? If WWE gives them a big enough deal, they'll be over here in no time. WWE just wants to waste money on the great khali (CRAP) instead of getting the rigHt stars for their new brand which they call "hardcore" when it is not.

[Corkscrewed]

Originally Posted by Vermaat Hardcore was the focal point of ECW. Sure, they brough other things to the table, but hardcore was the bread and butter. When people think of ECW, they think of extreme, of Sandman and Dudleys and Dreamer NOT of luchadors and dean malenko. They were there, but they weren't the FOCUS.

So how is that much different from now? In your original post, you basically said that the new ECW needs all hardcore all the time. Now you're saying it should focus on hardcore, which is a much more reasonable argument.

But frankly, right now, they already have a mix of hardcore matches and non-hardcore ones.

It's just that they've toned down the hardcore matches because they don't want wrestlers injuring each other or shortening their shelf life as workers in the company. In past arguments, you've referred to that sort of thing as "Vince caring for his workers." Now you want to bust out the chainsaws and have people mutilate each other?

It's things like that that make people call you a dumbass. And you can act high and mighty and above name calling all you like, but the fact that you consistently have holes in your arguments doesn't speak much toward your favor, and the fact that you continue to ignore your own holes and simply brush other people off as being stubborn basically invites you toward insult.

It's amazing you haven't figured this out already, but then again, I've already marked you out as one of those stereotypical Americans who refuse to admit they're wrong and never take responsibility for anything, preferring instead to believe that they're always right and that the world must adhere to them.

[addy2hotty]

LMAO...'MIND THE CONTEXT'.

Should be Matt Strikers new catchphrase.

But the old ECW didn't, even though they ran concurrent with promotions that did. You said that people who bad CZW shoulddn't call themselves ECW fans (via your logic that if people call CZW garbage they call hardcore garbage). There's like, 15 different ways you contradict yourself with this little statement.

I don't see a contradiction. ProTip: Just because you want there to be a contradiction, doesn't mean there will be.

The old ECW did not but they wouldn't put it out of the picture. The new ECW would NEVER do it.

For every Sabu, there was an RVD (yeah, you could call him "hardcore", but he's as much about high flying and aerial attacks as anything else). For every Tommy Dreamer, there was a Dean Malenko. For every Balls Mahoney, there was a Lance Storm. For every Axl Rotten, there was a Steve Corino.

Like I said, they had techies but they were not the focus of the show. It was EXTREME that was the focus and extreme and dean malenko don't mix lol

Some of the greatest non-hardcore wrestlers came out of ECW, including not just technical wrestlers, but high-fliers. I mean, Vermie himself fellates Msyterio, who is a damn fine example of a fast-paced guy who is not reputed for being either technical or hardcore.

Mysterio is the total package. Like you said, he's a high flier, he doesnt need to be hardcore or techinical. I don't see any point in mentioning rey, I didn't deny that ECW had some great high fliers and total packages like Rey Mysterio.

Maybe you should learn to SPELL. It's "neutered", and do YOU have any idea what that MEANS? Not KNOWING how to spell NEUTERED is a FAILURE.

Oh wow a spelling error, yeah that makes my point false because I mispelled a word. This isn't a spelling contest. This is the internet.

The funny thing is, he needs a better grasp on ironic, too. Ironic is not "missing a post while already making another post," and the calling him "special." Too bad the only irony here is his lack of a grasp on irony.

It was ironic because you're saying others are stupid when you are doing somehing extremely stupid.

Yeah, you really didn't watch ECW did you? His original ECW promos were awesome.

I don't see anything amazing in his promos. Maybe its a DIFFERENCE OF OPINION but I think he's boring on the mic especially compared to Cena.

So how come you don't accept this same LOGIC whenever it's used to criticize your heroes, Rey Mysterio Jr and John Cena? How come you didn't accept this same LOGIC when it was used to argue why the WWE Cruiserweights were being limited?

You really wanna go back to that argument? You guys had no point. There is a clear point in my Dudley argument. They can not possibly have any other reason for not joining ECW, just not enough money because they were perfectly happy in WWE for years.

Oh, and CAPS used for EMPHASIS lose their EFFECT when you use them every OTHER sentence. Eventually, you just SOUND like you're and OLD man YELLING at the kids to get off his YARD.

I don't do this, I only use caps to emphasize points. Just because you say something false about me doesn't make it true, sorry

So try to gain a grasp of proper English writing technique and effect before you go off pretending to be better than us by whining about name calling and similar petty complaints.

I am obviously more mature then anyone resorting to name calling and spamming threads

Usually I respect the opinions of people, but every match between those 2 was utter shit.

Well maybe hardcore isn't your style then because it was an ace hardcore match.

You people really have trouble with READING COMPREHENSION. Maybe you guys should reread posts a couple of times befor responding to them. All I have said about the new ECW is true and it is clear that it is not hardcore anymore. Watch a CZW watch and watch a new ECW match you will see who is the real hardcore and who is the real innovator. Now watch old ECW and the new ECW and you will see a difference just as big. You people think my point is "ECW shouldn't have technical wrestlers because it never did" NO that is not my point and I never said that. Try to understand the point I am making before you make yourselves look any more foolish.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Vermaat I don't see a contradiction. ProTip: Just because you want there to be a contradiction, doesn't mean there will be.

You seem to be the only one who doesn't see it. Just because you choose to ignore it, claim it doesn't exist, does not make it so.

The old ECW did not but they wouldn't put it out of the picture. The new ECW would NEVER do it.

They did put it out of the picture by not doing it.

Your statements require you to ignore Paul Heyman and instead defer to your definition of what ECW was about. Sorry, but I think Heyman may know a little more than you on the matter at hand.

Like I said, they had techies but they were not the focus of the show. It was EXTREME that was the focus and extreme and dean malenko don't mix lol

Paul Heyman disagrees with you.

It was ironic because you're saying others are stupid when you are doing somehing extremely stupid.

Actually, I was challenging your mental capacity. However, what you accuse me of being "stupid" for is nothing more than a simple, commonplace event. You see, and I wouldn't need to explain this to someone who wasn't "special," In the process of replying, other people can reply too. This is what happened. It's unrealistic to expect this to never happen, and flat out retarded to try and make a big case out of it. "OH LOL I HIT REPLY BEFORE HE DID HES A MORON."

Again, just because you want something to work that way does not mean that it does.

You really wanna go back to that argument? You guys had no point. There is a clear point in my Dudley argument. They can not possibly have any other reason for not joining ECW, just not enough money because they were perfectly happy in WWE for years.

Which is why they took a pay cut to go to TNA, right? TNA doesn't pay the kind of cash they would have gotten regardless. In other words, your argument just died.

Watch a CZW watch and watch a new ECW match you will see who is the real hardcore and who is the real innovator.

How are they innovators? They're doing the same stuff Tards were doing back when Matt and Jeff debuted, back when Austin was still Stunning Steve, and back when Mick Foley was still an unknown. Again, you refer to them in terms of innovation, when their "hardcore" is the same backyard garbage that's had over 15 years of fame.

You want to know who the real innovators are? It's neither.

You people think my point is "ECW shouldn't have technical wrestlers because it never did" NO that is not my point and I never said that.

That's not what people are saying, or what they're claiming you're saying. If you're going to question comprehension, don't be such a hypocrite.

You seem to be the only one who doesn't see it. Just because you choose to ignore it, claim it doesn't exist, does not make it so.

The reason I'm not seeing it is because it's not there. It's just empty rambling from you, you haven't pointed out a real contradiction.

They did put it out of the picture by not doing it.

Just because you don't do it, doesn't mean its "out of the picture". ECW did some more violent things, they just haven't got to it yet. If ECW was still around, you bet they would have had at least one such match.

Paul Heyman disagrees with you.

And where did he say that ECW was not extreme?

The E in ECW disagrees with you. Extreme is in the name of ECW. EXTREME is E C W.

Actually, I was challenging your mental capacity. However, what you accuse me of being "stupid" for is nothing more than a simple, commonplace event. You see, and I wouldn't need to explain this to someone who wasn't "special," In the process of replying, other people can reply too. This is what happened. It's unrealistic to expect this to never happen, and flat out retarded to try and make a big case out of it. "OH LOL I HIT REPLY BEFORE HE DID HES A MORON." Again, just because you want something to work that way does not mean that it does.

UH HUH, especially after I point out to you that I adressed it, and YOU STILL don't see it. Sure thing. It's not my fault you don't know the refresh button.

Which is why they took a pay cut to go to TNA, right? TNA doesn't pay the kind of cash they would have gotten regardless. In other words, your argument just died.

Yes, TNA doesn't pay like WWE. Valid point. HOWEVER, this doesn't negate my point. Let me explain what happened. The Dudleys, knowing how extremely valuable they are, wanted a higher pay, WWE said no, so they left ON PRINCIPLE because they hoped that this will show WWE what a mistake they made and the WWE will give them the money they deserve. WWE didn't see their mistake, but if they saw it now and offered them an enormous contract, they'd take it. I mean, look at test, he said he doesnt like WWE, yet WWE offered him a big enough contract and he's back.

How are they innovators? They're doing the same stuff Tards were doing back when Matt and Jeff debuted, back when Austin was still Stunning Steve, and back when Mick Foley was still an unknown. Again, you refer to them in terms of innovation, when their "hardcore" is the same backyard garbage that's had over 15 years of fame.

They are innovators because they are putting these matches when most are not. Innovation is not just about being first, it's also about pushing something that others don't. CZW isn't afraid of doing REAL hardcore matches and their wrestlers aren't afraid either. They are HARDCORE, not "fake" Hardcore like the new ECW.

That's not what people are saying, or what they're claiming you're saying. If you're going to question comprehension, don't be such a hypocrite.

If it's not, why is everyone constantly flooding me with names of technical wrestlers in ECW?

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Vermaat The reason I'm not seeing it is because it's not there. It's just empty rambling from you, you haven't pointed out a real contradiction.

That's the "just because you say it doesn't exist" part.

See, several people have tried to explain it to you. You can't even just pin it on me.

Just because you don't do it, doesn't mean its "out of the picture". ECW did some more violent things, they just haven't got to it yet. If ECW was still around, you bet they would have had at least one such match.

It was pretty clear if you watched ECW that this isn't the case. You apparently want to pretend you watched it, but I'd say that wasn't the case.

And where did he say that ECW was not extreme? The E in ECW disagrees with you. Extreme is in the name of ECW. EXTREME is E C W.

Nice try at changing the language. You're trying to use extreme instead of hardcore. However, since HEyman has, multiple times, pointed the focus was on the talent, not the extreme...

UH HUH, especially after I point out to you that I adressed it, and YOU STILL don't see it. Sure thing. It's not my fault you don't know the refresh button.

No. Isee what you're TRYING to say. It just doesn't work that way. Again, not my fault you cannot comprehend the nature of the internet.

Yes, TNA doesn't pay like WWE. Valid point. HOWEVER, this doesn't negate my point.

It makes your point logically incongruous.

Well, it was in the first place, this just highlights the elephant in the room.

They are innovators because they are putting these matches when most are not. Innovation is not just about being first, it's also about pushing something that others don't. CZW isn't afraid of doing REAL hardcore matches and their wrestlers aren't afraid either. They are HARDCORE, not "fake" Hardcore like the new ECW.

Actually, innovation is about developing something new.

Too bad you fail at the English language.

If it's not, why is everyone constantly flooding me with names of technical wrestlers in ECW?

Uhhhh...Because you equated ECW with CZW? Insisted that the show was about hardcore? About extreme? That you can't call yourself an ECW fan if you weren't a fan of hardcore? And they're demonstrating that these numerous statements are false by indicating otherwise?

It's called LOGIC. If you can't comprehend that this is simply a counter to many of your bullshit statements about what ECW was, then you have no right to preach to people about their thought process.

[Dorkchop]

Originally Posted by Vermaat Yes, TNA doesn't pay like WWE. Valid point. HOWEVER, this doesn't negate my point. Let me explain what happened. The Dudleys, knowing how extremely valuable they are, wanted a higher pay, WWE said no, so they left ON PRINCIPLE because they hoped that this will show WWE what a mistake they made and the WWE will give them the money they deserve. WWE didn't see their mistake, but if they saw it now and offered them an enormous contract, they'd take it. I mean, look at test, he said he doesnt like WWE, yet WWE offered him a big enough contract and he's back.

Didn't the WWE just not use the Dudleys on tv for about a year, used them for the original One Night Stand, then release them shortly after? I'm not 100% positive on this, but I'm pretty sure I know more about than you know. I'm sure they talked with the WWE shortly after their release about new contracts, but basically told the WWE to screw themselves.

Money isn't always everything in wrestling. Look at Christian. He's making way less money than he was in the WWE. He made that choice on his own. He put aside money, and decided on being happy, and having more fun wrestling.

I know a lot of guys are in it for the money (Goldberg, Sabu, others), but there are guys out there who have pride and just care about wrestling (see Lance Storm).

[Goulet]

Originally Posted by Vermaat They are innovators because they are putting these matches when most are not. Innovation is not just about being first, it's also about pushing something that others don't. CZW isn't afraid of doing REAL hardcore matches and their wrestlers aren't afraid either. They are HARDCORE, not "fake" Hardcore like the new ECW.

Noun
innovation (plural innovations)

1. The act of innovating; the introduction of something new, in customs, rites, etc.

Ban this goof!

[Pepsi Man]

Originally Posted by Vermaat Like I said, they had techies but they were not the focus of the show. It was EXTREME that was the focus and extreme and dean malenko don't mix lol

Yet Dean Malenko was a part of ECW. Your argument is a FAILURE! It's a shame, too, because this thread was really MAKE OR BREAK as far as your reputation here goes. Pity.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Pepsi Man Yet Dean Malenko was a part of ECW. Your argument is a FAILURE! It's a shame, too, because this thread was really MAKE OR BREAK as far as your reputation here goes. Pity.

But Dean was not extreme and he was not the focus so therefore I am right and you are wrong! HAHA!

[Blitz]

All right, I'll see you all later tonight when this thread is 12 pages.

[Corkscrewed]

At first I was welcome because i thought it had potential.

So they kicked you out too, eh? It's prolly cuz you love John Cena and real ECW fans don't.

Anyway, I laugh at how you claim ECW was all about hardcore wrestling. Just goes to show how ignorant you really were, since they also brough luchador wrestling to the U.S. and featured tons of technical wrestling as well. It's just that their hardcore matches were what got them the most attention, but that doesn't mean that's all they did.

But here you come, spouting about how people like Kurt Angle don't belong, and how Vince should hire the Dudley's back and such. Um... they don't want to come back. Nice try.

And "real stars like New Jack." Yeah. Because when people think ECW, the first five names they think of include New Jack.



You've yet to address anything. You just think you have. But you're a funny guy. So it's quite entertaining when you pop up every month or so and make like a sensationalist tabloid mag.

[James Steele]

Here is something INNOVATIVE...shut the fuck up.

Originally Posted by JamesSteele Here is something INNOVATIVE...shut the fuck up.

Excuse me kid, isn't it time for your BEDTIME? Your mom will be pissed if she finds out youre on the computer past your bedtime!

[James Steele]

Originally Posted by Vermaat Excuse me kid, isn't it time for your BEDTIME? Your mom will be pissed if she finds out youre on the computer past your bedtime!

Shut the fuck up.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Vermaat has just made me love the new ECW.

You know why so many people shit on CZW? It's because "hardcore wrestling" (the bad kind, the kind referred to as "garbage" by most people here) is its focus. Sure, they have guys who have talent working the undercard, but they seem ashamed of this talent.

When I think of ECW, I think of a company which was based on its talent. Something very different from the WWE and WCW. I think of Dean Malenko, Chris Benoit, Lance Storm, Jerry Lynn, Rob Van Dam, Rey Mysterio, Super Crazy, Psicosis, Chris Jericho, Yoshihiro Tajiri, Little Guido, Tracy Smothers and Tony Mamaluke. I'm sorry, but I could give a shit about guys like Tommy Dreamer and The Sandman. I have nothing against them, but their contributions to ECW are extremely overrated.

When Tommy Dreamer and The Sandman probably can't arm-wrestle with their kids anymore, because they are so broken down, you need to do something else to get people interested in your show. Granted, a lot of people are probably angry that the new ECW has rules, but it was always about using those lack of rules to enhance the performances of its talent. Sabu and Rob Van Dam is a great example of this.

Kurt Angle was actually going to be in ECW when he first got started in professional wrestling, so there goes your arguement that he doesn't belong. Angle is also one of the last big stars the WWE has. He helps promote ECW. Oh, and Kurt Angle is a former WWE Hardcore Champion, plus he's had some phenominal "extreme" matches.

By the way, Rob Van Dam didn't "FAIL" as WWE Champion. He made a mistake. John Cena makes one every week when he comes out on the stage running like a retard. Rob Van Dam got caught with drugs, the company did what it needed to do. John Cena, "Lord and Saviour of Professional Wrestling" (according to you and management) has had two WWE Championship reigns, and guess what? Non-wrestling fans don't give a shit. Most wrestling fans don't even give a shit. For a man being groomed as the next Hulk Hogan or Stone Cold Steve Austin, he isn't exactly drawing.

So yeah, final thoughts on the ECW matter:

"ECW was never about hardcore wrestling. The new ECW is different from it, yes, but I feel that has more to do with limitations put on the talent than the lack of "hardcore". I agree with you on the time constraints, but the WWE doesn't control everything like you think they do. Sci-Fi is only willing to give them one hour. It is up to the WWE to make the best of it. So Heat and Velocity for how easily the WWE can fuck that up.

The new ECW would be very similar to the old ECW if they do a few things:

1) Let the talent go at their own pace
2) Remove the disqualification rules, and just have talent use their personal judgment to decide when making a match hardcore is needed.

Oh, and it is not a "FAILURE". It is doing great in the ratings. I don't like it, a lot of others here don't like it, but it is probably going to get renewed as it is. The new ECW has som steps to take before it is truly great, but it can get there without the use of the "WWE Hardcore Division", which was softcore compared to most of ECW's stuff.

[Arnold HamNegger]

Originally Posted by Vermaat Excuse me kid, isn't it time for your BEDTIME? Your mom will be pissed if she finds out youre on the computer past your bedtime!

Your Mom will be pissed when she finds out you're not using that thesaurus she bought you for Christmas.

[Xero]

Originally Posted by Arnold HamNegger Your Mom will be pissed when she finds out you're not using that thesaurus she bought you for Christmas.

Actually, he used the word "gratuitous" correctly. I must commend him.

[Arnold HamNegger]

Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126 Actually, he used the word "gratuitous" correctly. I must commend him.

Good point Xero, my post was a FAILURE.

[Volare]

Originally Posted by Vermaat Excuse me kid, isn't it time for your BEDTIME? Your mom will be pissed if she finds out youre on the computer past your bedtime!

someone give him an obliterating bitch slap

[loopydate]

No, Verm. WWE has offered the Dudleys (and Rhino and Raven...) a large sum of money to sign with ECW. And they refused. They're happier being big fish in the small pond of TNA.

Now, I'm going to try to play the peacemaker here, because I think there's a fundamental part of "our" argument that you're just not understanding. Hopefully, by my clarifying this, you'll be able to understand where people are coming from, rather than calling them first-graders.

We're not saying that ECW never had hardcore wrestling.
We're not saying that all hardcore wrestling is bad.
We're not saying that CZW isn't hardcore wrestling.

What we're saying is that CZW is bad hardcore wrestling. ECW had good hardcore wrestling. Matches that had psychology and a story that happened to include tables and chairs and canes. CZW is two idiots whacking each other over the head with lighttubes and calling themselves hardcore.

That's where the KKK comparison came in. The KKK are the farthest reach of the Christian Church, in that these are men who pretend to be Christian while performing horrible un-Christian acts. CZW is like the farthest reach of wrestling, in that they pretend to be wrestlers while performing in horrible matches.

ECW had some great hardcore moments, some arguably more brutal than CZW's "best" stuff. The Born To Be Wired match is a great example of this. But ECW also had Rob Van Dam and Jerry Lynn and Lance Storm and Chris Benoit and Super Crazy and Mike Awesome. Guys who could go hardcore, but could also flat-out wrestle. CZW has guys like Nick Mondo and Madman Pondo who couldn't wrestle their way out of a paper bag.

No, Verm. WWE has offered the Dudleys (and Rhino and Raven...) a large sum of money to sign with ECW. And they refused. They're happier being big fish in the small pond of TNA.

The reason Dudleys left in the first place was because WWE wouldn't give them the money they wanted. If WWE made an offer, it wasn't big enough because no one is going to refuse a big enough offer. The offer was obviously too small.

We're not saying that ECW never had hardcore wrestling. We're not saying that all hardcore wrestling is bad. We're not saying that CZW isn't hardcore wrestling. What we're saying is that CZW is bad hardcore wrestling. ECW had good hardcore wrestling. Matches that had psychology and a story that happened to include tables and chairs and canes. CZW is two idiots whacking each other over the head with lighttubes and calling themselves hardcore. That's where the KKK comparison came in. The KKK are the farthest reach of the Christian Church, in that these are men who pretend to be Christian while performing horrible un-Christian acts. CZW is like the farthest reach of wrestling, in that they pretend to be wrestlers while performing in horrible matches. ECW had some great hardcore moments, some arguably more brutal than CZW's "best" stuff. The Born To Be Wired match is a great example of this. But ECW also had Rob Van Dam and Jerry Lynn and Lance Storm and Chris Benoit and Super Crazy and Mike Awesome. Guys who could go hardcore, but could also flat-out wrestle. CZW has guys like Nick Mondo and Madman Pondo who couldn't wrestle their way out of a paper bag.

I understand all that, but I disagree. I don't see how CZW is bad hardcore wrestling. Hardcore wrestling is about being hardcore, about over the top gratuitous violence. Hardcore wrestling is about tables, chairs, explosions, lightubes and frying pans. That's why it's "hardcore" and not technical. This could be a matter of taste and that's fine. I'm not going to argue with anyone who says they don't like CZW's hardcore wrestling.

ECW was about Hardcore wrestling just like ECW. To say that there is no similarity between the two is simply wrong.

CZW don't pretend to be wrestlers. That's where you make the same mistake as others. They ARE wrestlers. HARDCORE wrestlers. Not technical wrestlers. HARDCORE wrestlers. Yes, ECW had all those technical wrestlers, but the main FOCUS was Hardcore, it was the image. That's why ECW had barbed wire on it's sign.

[Chavo Classic]

Originally Posted by Vermaat Hardcore wrestling is about tables, chairs, explosions, lightubes and frying pans.

No, No, No, No, No

What you are referring to is garbage wrestling.

[Chavo Classic]

Originally Posted by Vermaat Yes, ECW had all those technical wrestlers, but the main FOCUS was Hardcore, it was the image.

Which ECW events have you watched? The minority, not the majority, of ECW wrestlers were garbage wrestlers.

[Xero]

Originally Posted by Chavo Classic Which ECW events have you watched? The minority, not the majority, of ECW wrestlers were garbage wrestlers.

If I'm not gonna get him to name two non-WWE released matches, you aren't going to get that answer.

[Chavo Classic]

Vermaat, I think we should perhaps address the fact you've completely misunderstood what ECW was.

To the layperson ECW was about 'garbage wrestling', and many were drawn to it by the appeal of violent, no-holds barred wrestling from the likes of New Jack, the Baldies, Cactus Jack and the Pitbulls. However, ECw is better known in the wrestling community for being hardcore.

Now, please don't misinterpret the word 'hardcore' here. I do not refer to 'garbage wrestling', chair shots, broken tables, balcony dives (and in the case of CZW recently) broken lightubes, thumbtacks and water-containers. I refer to the Hardcore attitude. The Hardcore attitude refelected the 'up yours' attitude of the 90s, which as you might know, was replicated to some degree by the WWE.

ECW wasn't about garbage wrestling at all. And many within the industry would detest any similarities being drawn between CZW and ECW. If there was any exisiting federation around today which could be comparable to ECW in the 1990s it'd be ROH. Because at least ROH is thinking outside the box, against the convention of storylines, angles and gimmicks and breaking the mould just like ECW was 10 years ago.

[Xero]

Still haven't gotten my answer.

I'll make it easier for you. Name five ECW matches that you liked.

[James Steele]

Originally Posted by Vermaat The reason Dudleys left in the first place was because WWE wouldn't give them the money they wanted. If WWE made an offer, it wasn't big enough because no one is going to refuse a big enough offer. The offer was obviously too small. I understand all that, but I disagree. I don't see how CZW is bad hardcore wrestling. Hardcore wrestling is about being hardcore, about over the top gratuitous violence. Hardcore wrestling is about tables, chairs, explosions, lightubes and frying pans. That's why it's "hardcore" and not technical. This could be a matter of taste and that's fine. I'm not going to argue with anyone who says they don't like CZW's hardcore wrestling. ECW was about Hardcore wrestling just like ECW. To say that there is no similarity between the two is simply wrong. CZW don't pretend to be wrestlers. That's where you make the same mistake as others. They ARE wrestlers. HARDCORE wrestlers. Not technical wrestlers. HARDCORE wrestlers. Yes, ECW had all those technical wrestlers, but the main FOCUS was Hardcore, it was the image. That's why ECW had barbed wire on it's sign.

You know what would be HARDCORE and VIOLENT...shut the fuck up.

[Chavo Classic]

I think he's gone anyway. I hope that this is all a big wind-up because Vermaat seems a little too stubborn/naive to be genuine

[Volare]

well said

[Chavo Classic]

I'm starting to take bets on which poster from casual is behind the Vermaat character. Any takers?

[Volare]

That's the next hardcore innovation...loser of the match gets spooned. YES!!!!

[alvarado52]

And we all know, spooning leads to forking!

[Corkscrewed]

The reason Dudleys left in the first place was because WWE wouldn't give them the money they wanted. If WWE made an offer, it wasn't big enough because no one is going to refuse a big enough offer. The offer was obviously too small.

You do not KNOW this. This is pure SPECULATION. You do not know if it was a BIG enough OFFER or NOT. This is not FACT because you CANNOT PROVE it.


Seriously, how can you be such a huge stickler about wrestling news sites and then go out and blatantly make a biased and opinionated statement by saying it "obviously wasn't a big enough offer"?

LOL. Silly Vermaat.

[Xero]

Originally Posted by Corkscrewed You do not KNOW this. This is pure SPECULATION. You do not know if it was a BIG enough OFFER or NOT. This is not FACT because you CANNOT PROVE it.

It wasn't on WWE.com.

[Dorkchop]

So tell me, how did you feel when ECW folded? Oh wait, you never heard of it back then? I'd suggest you stop telling us original ECW fans that were there when it was originally around what ECW was really about.

Heyman himself has said that ECW wasn't just about being hardcore. Some - a lot was, but at the same some some - a lot of ECW was about everything else. Some of the best wrestlers to wrestle in North America wrestled in ECW. Guys that weren't hardcore like Benoit, Eddie, Rey, Austin, Super Crazy, and so on.

Original ECW fans (And even a lot of fans who didn't see it when it was originaly on) think of luchadores, chairs, high flying, tables, wrestling, the crowd, and so on. Not just hardcore.

You never saw an ECW match when it was originally on. You probably just heard of it just as One Night Stand came about last year.

I'd suggest that you seriously shut the hell up because you really have no idea what ECW was about and should be about, but you'll give me 7 paragraphs, each contradiction the previous on, about how you know what ECW was really about.

Keep digging that hole. How's China?

[Kane Knight]

[quote=Dorkchop]So tell me, how did you feel when ECW folded? Oh wait, you never heard of it back then? I'd suggest you stop telling us original ECW fans that were there when it was originally around what ECW was really about.[\quote]

But he knows it better than ECW fans, and even Paul E.

Keep digging that hole. How's China?

Oh, just that itching I got from Sha...Oh.

[Corkscrewed]

EXACTLY!!!! REST IN PEZ DISPENSERS!!!!!!!! X(

[Chavo Classic]

Guys, he's gone. We're just arguing with thin air. Lets call time on this catastrophic thread before it reaches 3 pages.