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Old 10-01-2006, 02:30 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
And you're entitled to it. There are some guys that can only play one character as well. Ricky Steamboat was a babyface for all his career. Kurt Angle used to make an awful babyface. Triple H in 2002 was pure shit. The Miz will probably be a heel for life, at least until he gets some better wrestling skills, but I don't think his natural annoying level should be held against him.

He does get a reaction. The crowds are all over him. Maybe they pipe in the boos, but it looks like they at least find him dislikeable.

I can see why you'd say he has no charisma. His personality if very mechanical (as opposed to CM Punk, who has natural charisma), and the guy's personality is very "MTV-ish". I think that's the point, though. We're not supposed to see this guy as anything more than "Who's ready to get funky with the funkiest chicken in the world!?! Hoo-rah!".

I think everyone's just being too hard on the guy too early. Wait until he has a feud, can cut a few direct promos, and wrestle a match designed to make Mizanin look like anything more than a fluke wrestler. I think the guy will be at least a note-worthy heel in a few months.
Even if Angle was an awful face, you could still establish him as a face. The Miz just doesn't even come off as a heel, the way his character acts and everything else and he just doesn't get real heel heat. Also, I can't stand Miz on the mic either. He is just fucking awful.
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Old 10-01-2006, 10:19 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
Not really. It's not like Mike Mizanin has done anything to hurt the product, it's more people being douches about him. Most of the people who complain about him don't even watch SmackDown!, or think he's meant to be a babyface.

I'm just pointing out that the guy is MEANT to be annoying. He's doing his job. I'm sure he's good at it in real life, but if it can be focused into a character, I'm all for it.
Wow. He hasn't hurt a sagging, half-assed product. THERE'S A BRIGHT SIDE!

I wouldn't sya he's doing a good job. Half of the people who complain about him aren't watching Smackdown. half the rest of them are changing the channel. I had to MAKE myself pay attention to him this week to verify that they're still dubbing crowd reactions for him. That's not good heel work. Heel work is not "Change the channel, this guy sucks." Yet this is largely the reaction he seems to be getting. If he's supposed to do that, then yes, it's brilliant.

But then, if turning people off your program is brilliant, then you're a good booker.
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Old 10-01-2006, 10:21 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
He does get a reaction. The crowds are all over him. Maybe they pipe in the boos, but it looks like they at least find him dislikeable.
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Old 10-01-2006, 10:22 AM   #44
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I didn't read any of this thread yet, but before I do..I'd just like to point out that The Miz can go to hell. He's horrible, his match with Tatanka on SmackDown this week was utter garbage. I'd normally blame that on Tatanka, but not this time.
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Old 10-01-2006, 10:29 AM   #45
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Injuns>Negroes.
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Old 10-01-2006, 10:38 AM   #46
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I only wanted to post in this thread to reveal how much I hate the miz. I hope he realises how fucking awful he comes off on tv/ in the ring.

They better change his gimmick soon or just release him, cause i just can't stand that guy.
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Old 10-01-2006, 10:47 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Wow. He hasn't hurt a sagging, half-assed product. THERE'S A BRIGHT SIDE!

I wouldn't sya he's doing a good job. Half of the people who complain about him aren't watching Smackdown. half the rest of them are changing the channel. I had to MAKE myself pay attention to him this week to verify that they're still dubbing crowd reactions for him. That's not good heel work. Heel work is not "Change the channel, this guy sucks." Yet this is largely the reaction he seems to be getting. If he's supposed to do that, then yes, it's brilliant.

But then, if turning people off your program is brilliant, then you're a good booker.
Do the ratings actually drop doing his segments? I mean, you may turn the TV off during his segments, but you don't really account for everybody. He probably wouldn't have been given a second chance in the reality TV business if he caused viewers to switch off. Granted, reality TV viewers will watch anything, but it's all about what's "hip" and "edgy".

The guy hasn't even been given a chance to show good heel work. He's been given a chance to say a few spazzed out "Hoorah!" lines and run to the ring screaming "This is a true story", etc. They just turned the guy heel. I'm not telling you to like him, I'm just saying give him a chance, he's shown talent in OVW, DSW and in his matches.

Once he's given a feud, and we can actually see him go somewhere with his shit, it may get over more with the online community. I don't know, I just think this Miz hate is completely uncalled for. Statements like "this guy doesn't entertain me" are fine, I just think people insulting him like he has no ability what-so-ever are being a little extreme.

If people can call me out on me being extreme when it comes to seeing the potential in things like TV deals, and underused talent, I can call them out on doing the exact opposite.

I wouldn't say the guy is over like rover, but the fans boo him. They add a few of their own, but they add cheers with Batista, Lashley, etc. You can see people in the crowd reacting the way they're meant to. For a guy who hasn't wrestled a real match, or cut a real promo, that is pretty good.

I'm reluctant to use this as evidence, because I haven't seen it, but the guy apparently played a brilliant heel in OVW against Seth Skyfire. He stole his girlfriend, etc. The guy can play a character. He hasn't truly been given one other than "annoying guy" yet. If he's annoying you, he's doing his job.
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Old 10-01-2006, 10:53 AM   #48
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Alienoid, I hate the miz so much I don't want to see him in a feud. And, I also turn the channel over when he's on. I'm sure many others do to.
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Old 10-01-2006, 10:56 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
Do the ratings actually drop doing his segments? I mean, you may turn the TV off during his segments, but you don't really account for everybody. He probably wouldn't have been given a second chance in the reality TV business if he caused viewers to switch off. Granted, reality TV viewers will watch anything, but it's all about what's "hip" and "edgy".

The guy hasn't even been given a chance to show good heel work. He's been given a chance to say a few spazzed out "Hoorah!" lines and run to the ring screaming "This is a true story", etc. They just turned the guy heel. I'm not telling you to like him, I'm just saying give him a chance, he's shown talent in OVW, DSW and in his matches.

Once he's given a feud, and we can actually see him go somewhere with his shit, it may get over more with the online community. I don't know, I just think this Miz hate is completely uncalled for. Statements like "this guy doesn't entertain me" are fine, I just think people insulting him like he has no ability what-so-ever are being a little extreme.

If people can call me out on me being extreme when it comes to seeing the potential in things like TV deals, and underused talent, I can call them out on doing the exact opposite.

I wouldn't say the guy is over like rover, but the fans boo him. They add a few of their own, but they add cheers with Batista, Lashley, etc. You can see people in the crowd reacting the way they're meant to. For a guy who hasn't wrestled a real match, or cut a real promo, that is pretty good.

I'm reluctant to use this as evidence, because I haven't seen it, but the guy apparently played a brilliant heel in OVW against Seth Skyfire. He stole his girlfriend, etc. The guy can play a character. He hasn't truly been given one other than "annoying guy" yet. If he's annoying you, he's doing his job.
Yeah....No.
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Old 10-01-2006, 11:26 AM   #50
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A6, please provide me with evidence of QH ratings.

Meanwhile, my statement that others do comes from direct feedback. More than not appear to.

Otherwise, you're just making yourself a larger apologist.
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Old 10-01-2006, 11:49 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
A6, please provide me with evidence of QH ratings.

Meanwhile, my statement that others do comes from direct feedback. More than not appear to.

Otherwise, you're just making yourself a larger apologist.
Ah, covered yourself pretty well there. I was going to ask you to show me proof that the ratings drop when he shows up. But seeing you're playing the direct feedback line, everyone here pretty much dislikes Cena. Does the RAW Rating drop when he's around.

I'm pretty sure if The Miz was affecting the WWE's ratings, they'd have booted him before his second match with Tatanka.

You're all allowed to hate him, go right ahead. I have to admit his personality drives me up the wall, too. The guy is probably an asshole in real life, too, but I'm just saying he's not the death of wrestling. He's pretty decent in the ring.
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Old 10-01-2006, 11:55 AM   #52
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HE DOESN'T HELP RATINGS AND NO ONE CARES ABOUT HIM. FIRE HIS ASS IMMEDIATELY OR WE WILL HAVE ANOTHER WCW ON OUR HANDS.
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Old 10-01-2006, 12:05 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianCrippla
HE DOESN'T HELP RATINGS AND NO ONE CARES ABOUT HIM. FIRE HIS ASS IMMEDIATELY OR WE WILL HAVE ANOTHER WCW ON OUR HANDS.


Yeah, he certainly doesn't help the ratings. I just think he could develop into something. I also think Val Venis could develop into something. I give up.

FIRE THE MIZ!!!!!
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Old 10-01-2006, 12:23 PM   #54
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WOOOOOOOOO!!! On a serious note, WWE dropped the ball on Val for real. He should be in the main event by now. Venis is talented and is decently entertaining but The Miz will never amount to anything.
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Old 10-01-2006, 12:45 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
Ah, covered yourself pretty well there. I was going to ask you to show me proof that the ratings drop when he shows up. But seeing you're playing the direct feedback line, everyone here pretty much dislikes Cena. Does the RAW Rating drop when he's around.
You tell me. His championship reigns don't seem to drawe, and he's been champ during some of the lowest ratings in a crappy time span...But I don't have access to QHs.

Basically, you're now arguing to disprove a negative. That's a no-no in debate, but that's okay. You don't have any hard facts to counteract.

Quote:
I'm pretty sure if The Miz was affecting the WWE's ratings, they'd have booted him before his second match with Tatanka.
I'm pretty sure WWE doesn't care about QHs. So regardless, your argument is moot.

Quote:
You're all allowed to hate him, go right ahead. I have to admit his personality drives me up the wall, too. The guy is probably an asshole in real life, too, but I'm just saying he's not the death of wrestling. He's pretty decent in the ring.
Who said he was the death of wrestling? The only one with such an extreme comment was you, crying about all the sheep.
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Old 10-01-2006, 08:35 PM   #56
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I don't change the channel...but I do pay a helluvalot more attention to JBL's commentary than I do the actual matches he's involved in.
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Old 10-01-2006, 10:13 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
You tell me. His championship reigns don't seem to drawe, and he's been champ during some of the lowest ratings in a crappy time span...But I don't have access to QHs.
I don't have access, either, but you have to assume that John Cena wouldn't be WWE Champion if he did more harm than good to the WWE. Believe it or not, they do like money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Basically, you're now arguing to disprove a negative. That's a no-no in debate, but that's okay. You don't have any hard facts to counteract.
You don't have the hard facts to back up anything you've claimed. People hate The Miz and turn off their TVs when they see him? Great general statement. It proves true on these boards, but we all know how little these boards' opinions matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
I'm pretty sure WWE doesn't care about QHs. So regardless, your argument is moot.
I'm pretty sure the WWE does care about ratings, so therefore your arguement is moot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Who said he was the death of wrestling? The only one with such an extreme comment was you, crying about all the sheep.
You're the one who complains you want to switch off when you see him (despite the fact your ignorance on whether or not The Miz was a face or a heel proves you haven't even been watching him) is a pretty extreme comment wouldn't you say? You switch off when you see him, you're turning away from the WWE product. That implies he scares people away from the product. No one watches the WWE, it dies. Hence my "death of wrestling" statement.
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Old 10-01-2006, 10:44 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
I don't have access, either, but you have to assume that John Cena wouldn't be WWE Champion if he did more harm than good to the WWE. Believe it or not, they do like money.
Which is why they kept it on Edge...

...And why they kept it on Cena when the numbers tanked down into the 2s...

But enough logic, as you're clearly right. These logical fallacies clearly do not exist because Alienoid says so.
Quote:
I'm pretty sure the WWE does care about ratings, so therefore your arguement is moot.
Ratings =/= QHs. Sorry, the argument is not moot.

Quote:
You're the one who complains you want to switch off when you see him (despite the fact your ignorance on whether or not The Miz was a face or a heel proves you haven't even been watching him)
If you were paying attention, you'd be confused like everyone else. The fact that you make up statements to confirm he's a heel...

Quote:
is a pretty extreme comment wouldn't you say? You switch off when you see him, you're turning away from the WWE product. That implies he scares people away from the product. No one watches the WWE, it dies. Hence my "death of wrestling" statement.
Strangely, changing the channel isn't a one way process, something you need to grasp. But whatever.
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Old 10-01-2006, 10:46 PM   #59
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That is to say, before you try and twist it, that QH are not the only form of ratings.
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Old 10-01-2006, 11:20 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Which is why they kept it on Edge...

...And why they kept it on Cena when the numbers tanked down into the 2s...

But enough logic, as you're clearly right. These logical fallacies clearly do not exist because Alienoid says so.
Weren't you the one talking about how Edge didn't really boost ratings? Or was that someone else? Cena sells merchandise, and I'm not the first to defend Cena, but I think a lot of his segments have been the highest rated on RAW. If John Cena was a failure, people would constantly remind the WWE of that fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Ratings =/= QHs. Sorry, the argument is not moot.
Yes...

*Slow clap*

You figured out the blatantly obvious.

Seriously, you can't say The Miz turns people off without offering evidence. It's not my job to defend the guy's employment. If you disagree, you prove that he shouldn't be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
If you were paying attention, you'd be confused like everyone else. The fact that you make up statements to confirm he's a heel...
No, if you were watching you'd know the guy is meant to be a heel. I believe this is why I called people sheep. JBL and Michael Cole have spiced things up with commentary. Yes, their commentary implies The Miz is a face. Their commentary also implies Sylvan is a face, and MVP is a face. It's not hard to look at the actual components of his matches, and see he is bonafided heel material.

I know you're a proud guy, and you're not going to admit it, but you're wrong about this. Let's move on.

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Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Strangely, changing the channel isn't a one way process, something you need to grasp. But whatever.
That makes no sense.

Sure, changing the channel on Mizanin shows he's turning you off, which is the point you were trying to make, weren't you? That's the whole purpose of my "death of wrestling" statement. He's turning people away = doing his part to kill the WWE. That's why I'm asking you to find me evidence that he is. If you can find it, I'll jump onto your boat. Until I see it I'm not going to believe it.
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Old 10-01-2006, 11:21 PM   #61
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Oh, and before you twist it, I'm not being blind. No evidence has actually been presented that he's harmful to the WWE, like many people are implying.
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Old 10-02-2006, 01:16 AM   #62
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Seriously....I wanna sex the Doug.
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Old 10-02-2006, 01:25 AM   #63
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Why does no one want Danny is my only problem with this
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Old 10-02-2006, 09:29 AM   #64
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Dog's the one with the look, duh.
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Old 10-02-2006, 09:30 AM   #65
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You heard me. DOG, the Basham Hunter.
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