Kurt Angle Conference

[KingofOldSchool]

Originally Posted by Avenger I can see where you're coming from KK but Angle has said, and it has always been obvious, that while he was a "prized asset", he was often thrown into stupid angles and used to elevate others.

Stupid angles? And whoelse in the company hasn't been booked into stupid angles?

Kane? There is so many holes in his storyline.
HHH? Meet Katie Vick.
HBK? Putting over that young Hulk Hogan.
The Undertaker? Take your pick.
Austin? The Alliance.

Elevating others? Oh my what a horrible concept! Who needs to elevate other workers?

They constantly used him to make Cena look good, they did that stupid 3 minute match thing where the obvious build up was who would beat him. In the last couple years I can't remember an angle where the purpose was to put Angle properly over and make him the top guy.

He was the top guy for most of 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006 when he wasn't hurt. Yeah cause he wasn't they didn't care about putting Angle over.

It was always either HHH, Rock, Austin, Brock or Cena who were going to be the eventual top guy with Angle just as the fall guy who put them over.

Austin put Angle over HUGE in 2001, but Angle's babyface heat died out quickly after they put the title on him. So what do they do? They put the title back on Austin (which wasn't their plan).

The Rock also put Angle over on numerous occasions. Angle dropped the title to Rock in 2001, was because EVERYONE knew it was going to be Rock/Austin at X-7. It was *THE* money match and they were right.

Brock and Angle had a nice feud going on and they wanted to get Brock over even more. So after Angle helped get the guy over, it's not like they knew he would bolt on the company.

HHH and Angle never had a proper 1 on 1 feud. When they did feud in 2000, The Rock was thrown in to the mix.

Once again they wanted Cena to be the top face so naturally they paired him with Angle so he could get a rub. Why is that so bad?

Plus he isn't a politician, as he himself says, he is a wrestler, an athlete, and a good man. I don't understand why people are crapping on this guy? Maybe we've just become so immune to HHH, HBK, Austin etc. running the show backstage and getting whatever they want. Let me remind you of a few things - HBK treated the business like shit when he was younger. He was involved in screwing Bret and held down so many guys with the Kliq. He is one of the worst backstage politicians and still to this day I doubt he gives many of the young guys the time of day. HHH is HHH. For two years he held the title which he DID NOT deserve to hold. He fucked us all over by ruining possible credible title runs for RVD, Booker etc. HHH is HHH. Stone Cold Steve Austin walked out on the business. He shat on the business when he stormed out over a little hissy fit about losing to Brock.

This isn't about backstage politics, get over it.

Now Vince would do anything for these guys, ANYTHING. Because they are top, top guys. Moneymakers. But they all treat the business like shit and have some sort of problem with letting us move into the next era in WWE. They won't let go. Look at this whole Austin/Hogan thing. Austin won't wrestle Hogan because of his "principles", Hogan wants to wrestle Austin for the payout which he undoubtedly doesn't need. Which of these two guys cares about wrestling?

Yet you make no mention of guys like Benoit, Edge, Holly, RVD, among others who had injuries and were given PLENTY of time off to heal. Where is the mention of them in your rant of "Waaaah they only care about Austin, Hogan, and HHH. Waaaaah"

When did Angle ever walk out? When did Angle ever refuse to lie down? When to Angle ever refuse to put a young guy over?

Once again this has nothing to do with Angle's dedication.

If Austin had an ounce of Angle's talent do you think he would use it to make others look good? NO.

*cough*AngleRockHHHBret*cough*

But this is what Kurt Angle did, he made others look good. But was he ever going to be the biggest draw in the world? Probably not. Just like Bret wasn't the biggest draw ever. There's one little thing they lack, and although they are probably the two best wrestlers - TECHNICALLY - they don't have the X-Factor that Austin, Taker, Rock, HHH have that enables them to draw so well.

Duh.

So you can talk about how Vince always looked after his prized talents so well. But Angle was not one of them. Sure Vince needed him so badly because without him who else could get him out of shitty situations?

Sounds pretty important to me.

Batista gets injured - stick the title on Kurt for a month as a transitional champ.

Angle held the title for around 3 and a half months. That's a little bit longer than 1 month, pal.

Then have him lose it to Rey FUCKING Mysterio. Easy. Problem + Angle = Problem Solved.

Well he was going to drop it to Orton, before the company realized that Orton is a prick. Oh and Mysterio held the title just as long as Angle did (only a few weeks longer).

Vince used Angle like this because he knew Angle wouldn't kick up a fuss. He went out there every night, did what he was told to do, gave 110% and never said two words about it. Angle never asked for anything from Vince.

Didn't Angle say that he asked Vince for time off to heal his injuries?

Vince treated Angle's body like shit and didn't give him time off because HE DIDN'T THINK ANGLE WOULD LEAVE. Why? Because Angle is not a politician.

He gave Kurt time off in 2003 to get his neck surgery, which Angle opted to go get the quick surgery done so HE could come back faster. Whereas guys like Austin and Benoit opted to do the longer surgery and they were out for over a year. Angle was out for a month or two, that was on his own accord. He could've taken the longer route. So yeah...

Now the second Angle comes out and decides - "I've had enough of Vince and his shit, I'm going to ask for something and I'm going to put my family and my health ahead of the business" - you all shit all over him. Instead of this why aren't we embracing a man who cares about this business, wants to see real wrestling on TV, wants to get rid of "ass kissing and strip poker" on wrestling shows, a man who is the best wrestler in the world, a man who wants to see guys like Samoa Joe wrestle for World Titles as opposed to a white rapper. WHY ARE WE PISSING ON ANGLE?

Yeah cause TNA Wrestling is sooooo "Real."

If you ask me he deserves to let off a little steam, and although he's bitter - GIVE HIM A CHANCE! Bret's been doing this for the last ten years and he is still some kinda' God to all you people! Austin says this shit every few months but still seems to have a job at WWE (God knows why?!). Cut Angle a little slack and just enjoy the fact that there is someone who wants to see wrestling on TV spelt - W-R-E-S-T-L-I-N-G!

Bret isn't my God.

[KingofOldSchool]

Originally Posted by TerranRich I love how the IWC thinks they know everything. Everybody wants to jump on the bandwagon and call bullshit on Kurt Angle and defend Vince. Defend Vince? Are you fucking KIDDING me?

Just like the part of the IWC, who bashes Vince at every opportunity.

"OMG TNA ISN'T GETTING GOOD RATINGS!1!11 LET'S BLAME VINCE1"

[Avenger]

Ok firstly I don't bash Vince at every opportunity.

Second of all your reply is to my argument is repetitive and loses all credibility when you say things like "Waaaah".

Really though, go ahead, let's bury the best wrestler in the world. Sounds like a plan.

BTW RVD, Holly, Show etc. all got time off because they are NOT essential like Angle was and had injuries which did not allow them to wrestle.

Seriously though KooS I'm just letting off a little steam about how Angle shouldn't get so much crap from people. You really shouldn't take it personally.

Ok kid?

[Avenger]

btw, you probably said loads of other stuff in there I could comment on but I pretty much stop paying attention to your reply when you said "Waaah, Austin, Waaah".

OK

[TerranRich]

Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool Just like the part of the IWC, who bashes Vince at every opportunity. "OMG TNA ISN'T GETTING GOOD RATINGS!1!11 LET'S BLAME VINCE1"

Er, huh?

Yeah, I wasn't bashing Vince, but come on, he's a businessman. It makes more sense, from what we all know about him, for him to say "Work through your injury and rehab on the road on your own time, we need you" than to say "Oh, no, you're one of our most prized men! *smooch smooch* We care about you!"

[Lara Emily]

Originally Posted by TerranRich Er, huh? Yeah, I wasn't bashing Vince, but come on, he's a businessman. It makes more sense, from what we all know about him, for him to say "Work through your injury and rehab on the road on your own time, we need you" than to say "Oh, no, you're one of our most prized men! *smooch smooch* We care about you!"

Except in almost every past instance (if not every) of a guy needing time off to recover from injury they have given it to him, from Benoit to Austin.

[TerranRich]

Meh. I got nothin'.

[Avenger]

I think Angle is a huge exception to how Vince treats wrestlers as NO-ONE was as good as him and NO-ONE wanted it as much as Kurt did.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Lara Emily Even most minor stars got the time off, granted some of them ended up gettign fired during that time off but they still got the time off.

I was more saying few wrestlers of his stature have problems. He could feasibly make the argument if he was a small star because it does happen SOMETIMES.

[Lara Emily]

Originally Posted by Avenger I think Angle is a huge exception to how Vince treats wrestlers as NO-ONE was as good as him and NO-ONE wanted it as much as Kurt did.

Now you're just grasping at straws.

[Avenger]

lmao what are you talking about?

I feel it's safe to say I'm entirely right.

How the fuck is that grasping at straws?

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by TerranRich Er, huh? Yeah, I wasn't bashing Vince, but come on, he's a businessman. It makes more sense, from what we all know about him, for him to say "Work through your injury and rehab on the road on your own time, we need you" than to say "Oh, no, you're one of our most prized men! *smooch smooch* We care about you!"

Yeah, but Vince in the past has deomonstrated no such thing. He's shown that, as a businessman, he's been willing to preserve talent. Which makes me ask--Why would Angle be so different? Why would they work him to death, but not Austin or Michaels or Holly or Benoit...

[Lara Emily]

Originally Posted by Avenger lmao what are you talking about? I feel it's safe to say I'm entirely right. How the fuck is that grasping at straws?

Because your statement is homerism pure and simple, Angle is not and never will be the biggest draw (great as he is), he is not heads above every other wrestler that has ever stepped in the ring though he is an amazing talent, fact of the matter is every main event guy that went down with an injury in the past was given the time off they needed to recover, why would Vince all of a sudden decide that Angle was the only guy he wouldn't give time off to, it's not logical.

Angle is thw only guy woh lives and breathes wrestling, Angle isn't the only guy who can put on 5* at will (one of few mind you), Angle is one of the best but he is not the undeniable like omg best wrester in the history of wresling

[TerranRich]

I'm gonna have to side with Avenger on this one. Nothing about the conference call seemed to ring as bullshit or hyperboled to me. Angle has consistently been a man of his word, honor, and all that, so I'm gonna have to trust Angle when he says what he says. Never given me any reason to doubt him.

[TerranRich]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Yeah, but Vince in the past has deomonstrated no such thing. He's shown that, as a businessman, he's been willing to preserve talent. Which makes me ask--Why would Angle be so different? Why would they work him to death, but not Austin or Michaels or Holly or Benoit...

All I can say is that, maybe, we never heard the whole stories with Austin, Michaels, et al. Holly isn't exactly a main-eventer and I don't think Benoit is high on Vince's list of main-eventers. I'm guessing that Vince is currently in a semi-desperate state of mind and wanted to keep Angle no matter what. Maybe the old man's finally lost it.

[Lara Emily]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Yeah, but Vince in the past has deomonstrated no such thing. He's shown that, as a businessman, he's been willing to preserve talent. Which makes me ask--Why would Angle be so different? Why would they work him to death, but not Austin or Michaels or Holly or Benoit...

Duh because Angle is just way better than anyone else, in every way

[Lara Emily]

Originally Posted by TerranRich I'm gonna have to side with Avenger on this one. Nothing about the conference call seemed to ring as bullshit or hyperboled to me. Angle has consistently been a man of his word, honor, and all that, so I'm gonna have to trust Angle when he says what he says. Never given me any reason to doubt him.

Russo is the greatest writer in wrestling, they've done a great job with Jarrett, yeah certainly no hyperbole/BS in there.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by TerranRich All I can say is that, maybe, we never heard the whole stories with Austin, Michaels, et al.

And maybe Mick Foley screwed Bret.

We can throw out hypotheticals, but main eventers have consistantly gotten time off for their injuries. That's a lot of "maybe we didn't hear their stories" to go through.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Lara Emily Duh because Angle is just way better than anyone else, in every way

True. ECW did jump up to "Attitude Era" ratings with Kurt there.

Not to mention Smackdown. He single-handedly turned that show around.

[Avenger]

Originally Posted by Lara Emily Because your statement is homerism pure and simple, Angle is not and never will be the biggest draw (great as he is), he is not heads above every other wrestler that has ever stepped in the ring though he is an amazing talent, fact of the matter is every main event guy that went down with an injury in the past was given the time off they needed to recover, why would Vince all of a sudden decide that Angle was the only guy he wouldn't give time off to, it's not logical. Angle is thw only guy woh lives and breathes wrestling, Angle isn't the only guy who can put on 5* at will (one of few mind you), Angle is one of the best but he is not the undeniable like omg best wrester in the history of wresling

Because Angle was a company man more than Austin, HBK, HHH, Hogan in the sense that he wasn't working to get what he wanted for himself out of the company, he was working to make his matches look good, make sure there was a good product going out on the air.

Vince knew this. He knew Angle wouldn't stop. Angle is the go-to guy when you need a transitional champion. Angle is the guy who can make someone like Cena look like a good credible champion. The fact that Angle isn't the biggest draw ever shows exactly what point I am making.

To be succint here are two points -

(1) Vince had nothing to lose with Angle. Vince could work him to death, squeeze every 5* match out of him. Then when Angle was done and couldn't wrestle anymore Vince could cast him aside without the worry of losing ratings or PPV buyrates. Had Vince done this to Austin or HHH he would've lost millions.

(2) Vince, in my opinion, took advantage of Angle's spirit. Angle was never going to stop pushing himself unless someone made him stop. Angle was, for the last few years, in such a bad personal situation that wrestling was his life. He had no time for anything else. He knew he had to stop but couldn't. Vince knew this and knew Angle would keep wrestling as long as Vince asked him to.

BTW before you say Angle isn't the best wrestler of all-time, why don't you ask the guys he's stepped into the ring with? So many wrestlers have said in shoots and other interviews that they had their best matches with Angle, that they had never felt as safe with anyone else in the ring than Angle.

Thats my opinion and what I believe to be true. BTW all that "omgh Angle is teh best everr" is not how I talk. That's grasping at straws.

[Lara Emily]

Tagging anyone with Best-wrestler of all time is pointless as there exists no single wrestler who stands above everyone else.

BTW how do you know Angle so personally?

[Avenger]

Originally Posted by Lara Emily Duh because Angle is just way better than anyone else, in every way

Ok I never said that was a reason as to why Kurt wasn't given time off.

Kurt isn't anywhere near my favourite wrestler. I am just sticking up for what I believe the truth and I think it's unfair for people to shit all over him.

I have gained a lot of respect for Angle this past couple weeks.

[Avenger]

Originally Posted by Lara Emily Tagging anyone with Best-wrestler of all time is pointless as there exists no single wrestler who stands above everyone else. BTW how do you know Angle so personally?

Tagging anyone with Greatest-writer of all time is pointless as the exists no single writer who stands above everyone else.

Since when were you such the wrestling expert that you were able to make such generalisations about the history of the business.

[Lara Emily]

Originally Posted by Avenger Tagging anyone with Greatest-writer of all time is pointless as the exists no single writer who stands above everyone else. Since when were you such the wrestling expert that you were able to make such generalisations about the history of the business.

Angle is the one who tagged Russo as the greatest writer of all time, I was using that to point out the existence of hyperbole/bs in Angle's conference call

[Avenger]

Ok.

Well the fact he said one stupid comment does not make the WHOLE conference bullshit.

Here look, you have your opinion I have mine. You seem to get quite personal about it. But hey, that's your prerogative.

[Lara Emily]

Originally Posted by Avenger Ok. Well the fact he said one stupid comment does not make the WHOLE conference bullshit. Here look, you have your opinion I have mine. You seem to get quite personal about it. But hey, that's your prerogative.

You're the one writing essays. I never said the whole thing was complete BS but a lot of it came off as hyperbole.

[Avenger]

yeah that is a big word.

try not to wear it out however.

I feel personally about the Angle situation as I care about his health etc. etc.

You seem to feel personal about the fact I disagree with you.

[TerranRich]

Off topic, but Kane Knight, I've noticed that you always argue your point as if your life depended on it, like you're in a debate college course and you're aiming for a 4.0 grade point average. Not complaining, just noticing.

[TerranRich]

Oh, and...ahem...Vince Russo is one of the greatest writers in wrestling history...IF he has a filter or someone to control him like Vince McMahon. I'm thinking that's what Angle meant. When Russo was allowed to run amok in WCW, we got crap and more crap. Because he wasn't going through anybody like he was in the WWF.

Kurt is acting like a crybaby.

[Avenger]

Originally Posted by Gulak Kurt is acting like a crybaby.

LMAO

thanks for your input

[Jeritron]

Kind of disgusts me. I'm not sure how I feel about the injury/release aspect of it, but the part where hes talking about what the WWE allowed him to do and his "run" and what not. Benoit and Jericho are the guys who should be bitching about that, not Kurt whos been pushed as a top guy regularly since his introduction.

[tucsonspeed6]

Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool That's why TNA will never succeed. In wrestling you have got to have the asshole factor to be successful. Look at Bischoff, Heyman, and McMahon. They were all assholes in their own way, they were all successful in their own way. If Dixie wants TNA to succeed she has to say "Fuck families, TNA is my family."

if TNA is to succeed, they need to get rid of that creepy vibe the fans give off. I can't watch a single Impact without feeling like I'm watching an infomertial or being coaxed into joining a cult. Sure, WWE tries to smudge over the fact that their guys aren't getting over, but at least the WWE fans don't cheer the janitor.

[Disturbed316]

BREAKING NEWS: Kurt Angle is proven NOT to be God, marks everywhere start jumping to his pointless defence...CLICK FOR MORE!

[Fox]

Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool He's a guy who competed in the Olympics with a BROKEN FREAKIN' NECK. If you think he's the kind of guy that would rather rest than compete, your a bigger moron than I thought you were.

When Kurt Angle won the Gold Medal in 1996 he was not married. He was still a young man in the limelight of his prime, and wrestling with a broken neck was only a major risk for himself.

When he won the World Heavyweight Championship after Batista went out with injury in January 2006, Kurt Angle was not only a much more broken down man (having undergone multiple neck surgeries, wrestling 2-3 nights a week, and traveling constantly), but he had a wife (married in 1998) and a four year old daughter.

I think that some things, like a wife and young child, are more important than wrestling. Even to a perfectionist work-a-holic like Kurt Angle, who has admitted this himself.

But I guess I'm just a moron.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Fox When Kurt Angle won the Gold Medal in 1996 he was not married. He was still a young man in the limelight of his prime, and wrestling with a broken neck was only a major risk for himself.

Right. And how did his marriage work out?

Oh, right. He put wrestling before it.

[Jeritron]

I mean what else did Kurt Angle want. He never got a run? Bullshit. He got the title in his first year off the rock and held it for 4 months, a long time for the attitude eras height among HHH,Rock,Austin and Taker. Then he got his crack at it as a face, but his face heat died out so whos fault is that, then they re-established him as a heel. He went on to hold the belt 3 more times, and main event 3 wrestlemanias, with a victory over Shawn Michaels inbetween. He was the top guy of Smackdown and they've given him the world since he debuted in 99, his bitching is uncalled for. Hes just upset he wasnt a superface like Hogan or Austin, but shit happens. Not everyone can be that, he was just accepted better as a heel and his role in the company was similar to that of HHH over the past few years, and hes the bosses fuckin son.

[RGWhat316]

Originally Posted by Fox When Kurt Angle won the Gold Medal in 1996 he was not married. He was still a young man in the limelight of his prime, and wrestling with a broken neck was only a major risk for himself. When he won the World Heavyweight Championship after Batista went out with injury in January 2006, Kurt Angle was not only a much more broken down man (having undergone multiple neck surgeries, wrestling 2-3 nights a week, and traveling constantly), but he had a wife (married in 1998) and a four year old daughter.

I kinda have to disagree here. He usually puts himself and wrestling over his family. Back in 2003, he was married and had a daughter, yet he put his life on the line to main event Wrestlemania. Any wrong move on his neck could have paralyzed him forever. He took that chance, and thankfully nothing happened to him. But even that is just one occasion where its been documented that he put wrestling over anything else.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by RGWhat316 I kinda have to disagree here. He usually puts himself and wrestling over his family. Back in 2003, he was married and had a daughter, yet he put his life on the line to main event Wrestlemania. Any wrong move on his neck could have paralyzed him forever. He took that chance, and thankfully nothing happened to him. But even that is just one occasion where its been documented that he put wrestling over anything else.

And his marriage has certainly tanked, so to say he values his wife over wrestling is insane.

[KingofOldSchool]

Originally Posted by Disturbed316 BREAKING NEWS: Kurt Angle is proven NOT to be God, marks everywhere start jumping to his pointless defence...CLICK FOR MORE!

It won't let me click.