CM Punk *Spoilers if you haven't watched ECW*

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think the people who dislike Punk because he gets a lot of credit are being a bit ridiculous. No one thinks the guy is a God. He's just a great wrestler with great mic skills and a mainstream appeal. Like it or not, the lifestyle Punk lives could garner him a pretty strong mainstream following. Just saying. His ring skills are not the greatest of all-time (they're good, though), and his promo skills are up there with the best, but he's too young to have too many memory moments, but the reason I think he could be money for the WWE is because he's one of the few characters who is actually relevent today.

Anyway, I think Punk's turn wasn't executed too badly, but it wasn't executed as brilliantly as possible. Punk's face during this was perfect. He just reeked of cockiness, and he really seems to come alive as a heel. The fans were like " ", which is actually a good sign, I think. The slate has been wiped clean, and they're ready to boo Punk. It also will give them a taste for the unpredictable. I think Punk turning heel is the most shocking thing the WWE has done in a long time.

I think Elijah Burke should remain the official leader, but have Punk become the star player. Burke leads them into battle, cuts the official promos announcing where they're going to go, and what they're going to do; Punk becomes their main wrestler, the one closest to becoming ECW World Champion.

Elijah Burke makes a great face (although you wouldn't know it by how great his heel character in ECW is), so I agree with those who suggest Punk slowly takes over Burke's role, which leads to Elijah turning face and feuding with the stable he used to lead, specifically Punk.

One thought occured to me as I was watching Punk turn heel, though: What if the WWE is just turning him heel so they can say "Well, people don't like him anymore," to justify him getting jobbed out? Hopefully they realise what a hot potato they have on their hands, and that turning Punk heel is for the good of the company, not to sabotage it.

Matt Hardy has been teasing a heel turn in recent weeks, so I wonder if there may be some intent by the WWE to eventually make Matt Hardy and CM Punk irrelevent to the WWE before phasing them out.

[Dave Youell]

The stupid thing is though, unless they give Punk the opportunity to be a heel (promo's on every show for the next 8 weeks) he's not going to get over like a heel as there's so many smart marks who want his babies. It's going to be like Rocky in 99. People may not want to boo him.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Dave Youell The stupid thing is though, unless they give Punk the opportunity to be a heel (promo's on every show for the next 8 weeks) he's not going to get over like a heel as there's so many smart marks who want his babies. It's going to be like Rocky in 99. People may not want to boo him.

That's another of my concerns.

I'm hoping that the New Breed appears on RAW, or something. Just to get them a little more known. Make them Vince McMahon's hit squad, seeing as he did endorse them on ECW and personally made Burke the leader.

A Corporation-esque stable of Vince, Shane, Umaga, Estrada, Punk, Burke, Striker, Thorn, Cor Von and Ariel, as well as some others (Nitro and Melina seem like obvious picks) could be quite entertaining. Providing the WWE doesn't job them out, or anything.

[addy2hotty]

Originally Posted by Alienoid06 I think the people who dislike Punk because he gets a lot of credit are being a bit ridiculous. No one thinks the guy is a God. He's just a great wrestler with great mic skills and a mainstream appeal. Like it or not, the lifestyle Punk lives could garner him a pretty strong mainstream following. Just saying. His ring skills are not the greatest of all-time (they're good, though), and his promo skills are up there with the best, but he's too young to have too many memory moments, but the reason I think he could be money for the WWE is because he's one of the few characters who is actually relevent today. Anyway, I think Punk's turn wasn't executed too badly, but it wasn't executed as brilliantly as possible. Punk's face during this was perfect. He just reeked of cockiness, and he really seems to come alive as a heel. The fans were like " ", which is actually a good sign, I think. The slate has been wiped clean, and they're ready to boo Punk. It also will give them a taste for the unpredictable. I think Punk turning heel is the most shocking thing the WWE has done in a long time.

I don't hate him because people around here think he's the Second Coming, I hate him because he's so medicore. I hate him more because of the head-giving. I've seen his RoH promos and stuff and tbh, they aren't anything special. Jeez, I think Chris Masters could get reaction down there. Add to that, the way OTT reporting round these ways of his 'huge' pops, his amazing in-ring matches and top promos - when none of these things have really taken place makes me chuckle. Fair enough, its ECW, but when he's appeared on Raw he's brought nothing to the table at all.

Punk's 'gimmick' (I dont really give a shit if its his real life attitude or not) is so middle of the road medicore it's ridiculous. He really is nothing special. He does that wrist rolling thing which was quite cool. But he reminds me of X-Pac sometimes when he comes out with his jumping around and no reaction.

The turn was atrocious. If he had been a tweener, it would have made sense, but to just jump in the ring and jump around with the winners of the match almost reminded me of when family members jump in when someones won a title. That's not his fault obviously, just addressing the point.

Punk doesn't step it up a gear when he needs to. He's pissed a lot of people backstage (if you believe the reports) and just gives me the impression that he's an arrogant prick. This 'better than you' shit seems to have gone to his brain.

I want him to prove me wrong, maybe as a heel he may do.

[Theo Dious]

Originally Posted by Alienoid06 No one thinks the guy is a God.

Bullshit, I saw a church dedicated to his honor just the other day.










Oh wait, you mean CM stands for "Christian Ministries?" Well who would have thought.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by DarthTeedious Bullshit, I saw a church dedicated to his honor just the other day. Oh wait, you mean CM stands for "Christian Ministries?" Well who would have thought.

You just solidified why you're one of my favourite posters on here.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by addy2hotty I don't hate him because people around here think he's the Second Coming, I hate him because he's so medicore. I hate him more because of the head-giving. I've seen his RoH promos and stuff and tbh, they aren't anything special. Jeez, I think Chris Masters could get reaction down there. Add to that, the way OTT reporting round these ways of his 'huge' pops, his amazing in-ring matches and top promos - when none of these things have really taken place makes me chuckle. Fair enough, its ECW, but when he's appeared on Raw he's brought nothing to the table at all. Punk's 'gimmick' (I dont really give a shit if its his real life attitude or not) is so middle of the road medicore it's ridiculous. He really is nothing special. He does that wrist rolling thing which was quite cool. But he reminds me of X-Pac sometimes when he comes out with his jumping around and no reaction. The turn was atrocious. If he had been a tweener, it would have made sense, but to just jump in the ring and jump around with the winners of the match almost reminded me of when family members jump in when someones won a title. That's not his fault obviously, just addressing the point. Punk doesn't step it up a gear when he needs to. He's pissed a lot of people backstage (if you believe the reports) and just gives me the impression that he's an arrogant prick. This 'better than you' shit seems to have gone to his brain. I want him to prove me wrong, maybe as a heel he may do.

He hasn't looked great on RAW, true. But who does? Seriously, the last time I was entertained by someone on RAW was...fuck, I can't remember. Of course that's just me, and you might like RAW and felt Punk still didn't deliver, but yeah.

Punk once out-popped DX. That's a fact. Sure, it was once, but for an act so "mediocre", that's pretty fucking impressive. He also got accepted into ECW, and became one of its hottest acts just by theory alone.

His Ring of Honor stuff is pretty fucking good if you ask me. Not "my God, he's the best I've ever seen," good, but compelling enough to watch and admit the guy is above average in the ring. He's also nice and confident when cutting promos. He can carry a story well, too. A lot of guys get a program, and they suck the potential right out of it. Punk never seems to do that.

Who really is fantastic in the WWE? People were talking about how bland MVP was until he proved he can hang with Benoit. If Punk were allowed to channel his ROH self, I'm sure he'd back-up what a lot of people are saying.

The guy obviously did something to get people behind him. You might not see it now, and you might not ever see it; you really don't have to believe it even if you do. A lot of people see "it" in Punk, though. No, not the next Austin or Rock "it", but a capable all-round performer with credibility and upwards momentum.

In such a barren WWE landscape, CM Punk is a rare gem. People actually give a shit about him.

[Innovator]

I can't wait for WWE to fuck this up

Though I see Punk turning on the New Breed fairly soon

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by addy2hotty I don't hate him because people around here think he's the Second Coming, I hate him because he's so medicore. I hate him more because of the head-giving. I've seen his RoH promos and stuff and tbh, they aren't anything special. Jeez, I think Chris Masters could get reaction down there. Add to that, the way OTT reporting round these ways of his 'huge' pops, his amazing in-ring matches and top promos - when none of these things have really taken place makes me chuckle. Fair enough, its ECW, but when he's appeared on Raw he's brought nothing to the table at all.

But seriously, you have to take Alienoid with a grain of salt. He's so far up the collective IWC's ass he could be in a JR surgery vignette. That's just the way he is.

And I totally agree. Despite what he claims, Punk was hyped as the second coming...And he's mediocre. The IWC tries to blow him by pretending his pops are bigger, his reactions are stronger, like he's Steve austin or the Rock.

Honestly, I called it, the same way I called the collective blowing of Burchill. Maybe the IWC is scared to be wrong. Maybe they're just so collectively caught up in the hype they can't see reality. but it's "WHAT AN AWESOME ARMBAR" All over again. Where Punk puts on lackluster matches, gets lukewarm or pretty good responses, and then they fawn all over him like he just did something amazing, or they lie and say "biggest pop of the night."

Either way, it's bullshit, but it's not the primary cause for my hatred of Punk, either.

Gosh Mr. Kane Knight, you use your mouth purtier than a $20 whore.

I am SO doing a WWE Blazing Saddles parody.

What's fake about his straightedgehood? Not trying to argue, just asking.

He's supposed to be straightedge in real life. Which means no drinking, something that's been said more than once he doesn't stick to. He looks like a heavy drug abuser, something that's gotten worse since I first took notice of him a few years ago. So maybe he went legit straightedge yesterday, but it's hard to believe he's straightedge. Especially with the talk of him actually drinking.

Of course, Straightedge is just a retarded way to label yourself special for something nobody gives a shit about. "I don't do drugs!" Yay! You want a cookie? "Hey, I'm a retarded thrillseeker who risks his body and gets tons of tattoos, but my risky behaviour's cool, unlike those stupid fucks who do things like drink..." Yup. Okay. Uhuh.

[Theo Dious]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Maybe the IWC is scared to be wrong.

Because if the IWC is wrong about Punk, then they might be wrong about other things. Like a Christian who has his head so far up dogma's ass that they think that believing in evolution equates to being an atheist.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight But seriously, you have to take Alienoid with a grain of salt. He's so far up the collective IWC's ass he could be in a JR surgery vignette. That's just the way he is. And I totally agree. Despite what he claims, Punk was hyped as the second coming...And he's mediocre. The IWC tries to blow him by pretending his pops are bigger, his reactions are stronger, like he's Steve austin or the Rock. Honestly, I called it, the same way I called the collective blowing of Burchill. Maybe the IWC is scared to be wrong. Maybe they're just so collectively caught up in the hype they can't see reality. but it's "WHAT AN AWESOME ARMBAR" All over again. Where Punk puts on lackluster matches, gets lukewarm or pretty good responses, and then they fawn all over him like he just did something amazing, or they lie and say "biggest pop of the night." Either way, it's bullshit, but it's not the primary cause for my hatred of Punk, either.

I'm not the most realistic of posters, but I'm not just big on the IWC guys. It's always been my position to be optimistic about guys' talents, and to admire their dedication to get into the business in the first place. A lot of people shit on guys like Snitsky, Albert (back before he went Japan on everyone's asses) and Heidenreich, but I respect them for just getting into the business and sticking with it. They obviously have a lot more passion for it than I do.

CM Punk was not hyped as the Second Coming. This is what pisses me off about the anti-Punk argument. Sure, a lot of people think he's good. A lot of people think he could be a main eventer (keep in mind Blackjack fucking Bradshaw, in all due respect to The One, became a main eventer) and don't want the WWE to slap him in make-up, put him in a dress and call him "Stephany the Transsexual Sports Entertainer". That doesn't mean people think he's going to be headlining WrestleMania the next year.

Punk is not mediocre. You think he is. I could say Bret Hart is mediocre, it doesn't make me right. Mediocre is average. Punk is at least a B-grade performer. Even if you hate him, you have to give him that. He went one-hour with Samoa Joe, in the first American 5-star rated match by the Wrestling Observer in a number of years. The guy isn't "mediocre".

Punk's pops are huge, too. To deny they're not is just pretty ridiculous. He's more over than RVD most of the time. That would make RVD a failure in the overness department. I don't buy that, sorry.

I've often said Mr. Kennedy and CM Punk could be the next Austin and Rock. I mean that in an analogical sense. Both Punk and Kennedy can wrestle, and they can talk, plus they're over and have upwards momentum.

People don't lie when they say CM Punk gets the biggest pop of the night. Who else is there that people care about in ECW? Rob Van Dam is the only guy, and a lot of the time Punk does out-pop him.

So his matches are lackluster? I hope you're only referring to the WWE. He's never had the chance to do anything in the WWE. Everything he's done he's done pretty competently. You can say "lackluster", others can say "as good as allowed."

Originally Posted by Kane Knight He's supposed to be straightedge in real life. Which means no drinking, something that's been said more than once he doesn't stick to. He looks like a heavy drug abuser, something that's gotten worse since I first took notice of him a few years ago. So maybe he went legit straightedge yesterday, but it's hard to believe he's straightedge. Especially with the talk of him actually drinking. Of course, Straightedge is just a retarded way to label yourself special for something nobody gives a shit about. "I don't do drugs!" Yay! You want a cookie? "Hey, I'm a retarded thrillseeker who risks his body and gets tons of tattoos, but my risky behaviour's cool, unlike those stupid fucks who do things like drink..." Yup. Okay. Uhuh.

I doubt the guy is a heavy drug-abuser. Seriously, if he was addicted to heroin, the WWE wouldn't have him. Apparently he's already rubbed some people the wrong way, so if this is the case and he's a druggie, he'd be gone. So either he doesn't do drugs, or the report of backstage heat is bullshit. I also doubt he drinks, to be honest. I've never once heard of him drinking, and if the ROHbots ever found out Punk deceived them, they'd turn on him pretty quickly. If the backstage report can be bullshit, than your reports that he drinks on occasion could be bullshit, as well.

I certainly don't live the straight edge lifestyle, and I'm not into the whole emo thing, but if Punk wants to do it, it's his life. I tend to respect people for their personal disciplines, not degrade them for it.

[Kane Knight]

See what I mean about a grain of salt?

[Afterlife]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Punktards have for years told me the reason I hate him is because he's so masterful at gaining heat (Which is primarily stupid because I hate his face role too), so if he's as Godly as the cocksuckers on this site claim, he should be able to get heel heat masterfully. Of course, he was also going to main event Mania and unify the belts, followed by walking on water, raising Eddie from the dead, and healing the ailing Bret Hart. So he'll probably fall short here.

Hey, now! I'm a cocksucker, and I've yet to be impressed by Punk.

[Afterlife]

Also...if you act like you're Emo... How can you be a punk?

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Afterlife Also...if you act like you're Emo... How can you be a punk?

Is there a difference these days?

[Afterlife]

Punks have an anti-establishment complex. Emos are depressed Romulans with longer hair and shorter ears.

[Innovator]

Originally Posted by Afterlife Emos are depressed Romulans with longer hair and shorter ears.

Jimmy Jacobs?

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Afterlife Punks have an anti-establishment complex. Emos are depressed Romulans with longer hair and shorter ears.

Emo is basically just punks who mope that they aren't suicidal enough to be goths.

Besides, Punk is the establishment these days.

[addy2hotty]

Kurt Angle was 'straight-edge' once. Look what happened to him.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Besides, Punk is the establishment these days.

I was gonna say, I think the last time punk was anti-establishment was the late 80's.

[RGWhat316]

Go figure this one out. from wrestling-edge.com

What You Didn't See On WWE RAW This Week

Written by: Andy Stevens - April 17th, 2007

Eric Ganzerli called in the following notes from RAW in Milan, Italy to PWInsider.com:

Dark Match:

- CM Punk defeated Kevin Thorn with Go To Sleep. Thorn was bleeding after the match.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Uh, what? Punk makes his heel turn, and celebrates with Thorn, yet fights him on a non-tv match?

[Mercury Bullet]

^ On ECW they'll probably pretend the heel turn never happened and the main event will be CM Punk vs. Elijah Burke