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Old 06-27-2007, 06:30 PM   #41
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You know, I'm not going to claim to know who does and doesn't use steroids or any other drug of any kind. I'm not backstage at WWE or any other pro wrestling promotion, and I don't know these guys personally. Sure, there's a lot of steroid use in wrestling, and yes, there are a lot of people with suspicious physiques, but I've seen looks prove to be deceiving way too many times in life to claim to be certain who does what, when I don't see these people on any kind of regular basis off of television.
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Old 06-27-2007, 06:34 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman
Um, just pointing out that they did have gyms back then.
Um, just pointing out that they weren't the same. They had cars and televisions back then too, even computers. Not as good though.
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Old 06-27-2007, 06:37 PM   #43
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Nothing was the same back then. But they did have gyms. You said they didn't.
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Old 06-27-2007, 06:45 PM   #44
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No I didn't. Read my post again
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Old 06-27-2007, 06:46 PM   #45
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hint: keywords are "the same", "quality" and "amount"
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:03 PM   #46
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Jeritron, Stickman is like, phenomenally stupid.

Don't be surprised that he's claiming you said something any literate person would know you didn't.
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:13 PM   #47
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Ya my bad.
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:20 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FourFifty
It's not a sport.... Sports have rules and ways to enforce them.
And yet, often those rules are as well enforced as pro wrestling.
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:34 PM   #49
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I love how people feel they're able to judge others. And then they get to the next level after that - we're they don't judge anyone anymore and go on about it - thus becoming the judges of the judgers. Can't we just allow Chris Benoit be? He's laughing right now with Eddie and such about how silly he was, and it really has nothing to do with anyone else other then those involved.
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:39 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Rodrigues
I love how people feel they're able to judge others. And then they get to the next level after that - we're they don't judge anyone anymore and go on about it - thus becoming the judges of the judgers. Can't we just allow Chris Benoit be? He's laughing right now with Eddie and such about how silly he was, and it really has nothing to do with anyone else other then those involved.
Don't be silly. We've all got a moral high ground to shout from. Some round here have little wings you know, and little halos so they can easily judge others. I mean, we all KNEW him didn't we? Never done a bad thing in their lives some of them.

I'll let others call him a 'sick fuck' etc, and I'll judge the man on how I really knew him - as a performer in the ring.
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:44 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addy2hotty
Don't be silly. We've all got a moral high ground to shout from. Some round here have little wings you know, and little halos so they can easily judge others. I mean, we all KNEW him didn't we? Never done a bad thing in their lives some of them.

I'll let others call him a 'sick fuck' etc, and I'll judge the man on how I really knew him - as a performer in the ring.
Touché. One of the greatest in ring technicians of all time.
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:53 PM   #52
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How can you tell people to not judge a situation that took place in reality, but pass off complete claims like that he's "laughing about all this with Eddie" in some dream world you've made up? You're just as out of line as anyone.
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:54 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addy2hotty

I'll let others call him a 'sick fuck' etc, and I'll judge the man on how I really knew him - as a performer in the ring.
Oh you must have missed the part where he killed his seven your old son in his bed
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:56 PM   #54
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Seriously though, you say you only knew him as a performer in the ring. But you know him as a murderer just as much as you know him as a performer.

None of us have ever "known" the man in either department. I always have stressed that we don't "know" these people. But that doesn't mean we don't know what happened.
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:03 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron
How can you tell people to not judge a situation that took place in reality, but pass off complete claims like that he's "laughing about all this with Eddie" in some dream world you've made up? You're just as out of line as anyone.
I hate discussing organised religion with people - because it just gets out of hand as everyone has the right book and everyone thinks they're right. So I'll just say this and any further argument you bring up I'll just ignore.

Why wouldn't he be with Eddie, Owen and the rest? So God not only in his infinite intelligence and creator of everything (as it goes) - created not only evil, but evil on the same level as him. And is so shallow and vain, as to choose his favourites to join him in the 'Kingdom of Heaven' and banish those who don't worship or follow "his" teachings, that have been retold so many times over the years that they're nowhere near what they originally were written as.
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:09 PM   #56
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I'm not gonna get into this, but he didn't die from lingering health effects, or a harness mishap. I don't think I have to go into it any more.
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:13 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Rodrigues
I hate discussing organised religion with people - because it just gets out of hand as everyone has the right book and everyone thinks they're right. So I'll just say this and any further argument you bring up I'll just ignore.

Why wouldn't he be with Eddie, Owen and the rest? So God not only in his infinite intelligence and creator of everything (as it goes) - created not only evil, but evil on the same level as him. And is so shallow and vain, as to choose his favourites to join him in the 'Kingdom of Heaven' and banish those who don't worship or follow "his" teachings, that have been retold so many times over the years that they're nowhere near what they originally were written as.


Fine. Everyone goes to Heaven.
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:14 PM   #58
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No, just people who've had great matches I suppose
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:14 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight


Fine. Everyone goes to Heaven.
Exactly.
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:15 PM   #60
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Is that a fact?
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:18 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron
Is that a fact?
Nope because who am I to determine what is truth? Everyone has their own path - as long as it makes you happy. There are enough paths for everyone.
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:21 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron
No, just people who've had great matches I suppose
Would you be so angry if a shit wrestler had done this?
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:31 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron
No, just people who've had great matches I suppose
Fuck, I guess I'd better hit the weights.

(sorry, no offense meant to either you OR Ben; just had to take the opening there.)
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:41 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Rodrigues
Nope because who am I to determine what is truth?
That would be a great argument if you didn't affirmatively assert that Benoit was in Heaven. As it is, it's pretty retarded.
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:46 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
That would be a great argument if you didn't affirmatively assert that Benoit was in Heaven. As it is, it's pretty retarded.
For you to say he's not - I could say that's pretty retarded in itself.
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:46 PM   #66
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For the record I don't believe in hell or heaven for that matter. Just afterlife, where we are pure positive energy.
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:49 PM   #67
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That's my view though - I'm sure you have a book that says otherwise.
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:50 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Rodrigues
For you to say he's not - I could say that's pretty retarded in itself.
You could, but you'd be retarded to.

I'll give you three guesses as to why.
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Old 06-28-2007, 05:39 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addy2hotty
Would you be so angry if a shit wrestler had done this?

I would view him and judge him the same, so yes. Of course, it wouldn't have the attention, shock value and connection to me and all of us. It's being discussed, and it's a big thing. Since it's being talked about so much, my views are more spoken.
But to answer your question simply, yes I would be. A murderer is a murder regardless if hes a main eventer in WWE, an indy wrestler, or works as a Clerk somewhere in 711. Since the action is known to me, as is the culprit (know of him, not him personally) I have a stronger mind on the matter. But my view and judgement is the same.

I've stated in other threads a similar thought as yours by asking "would you defend him if he was a shitty wrestler" towards people who have defended him and/or his now meaningless career (IMO which I feel is sound).
Bottom line is it doesn't matter who it was, it matters what they did.

As for my comment about "no they just have to have great matches" was a sarcastic remark for those who didn't pick up on it. It was in response to the belief that all of those guys are in the same place regardless of their lives, but linked by what they did as wrestlers. Which to me was an absurd statement.

I don't know what I believe in fully. But if there is a heaven, he aint there. If there is a hell, he is. If there's nothing, then his last acts as an existing being was probably the worst that can be committed by a human being. And if we all turn into positive energy as Ben Rodrigues claims, then for that I really got nothing for you other than a big

But addy, you seem to have a problem with my view of the situation or at least my desire to let it be known. That's fine, I will stop for the most part.

p.s. How does positive energy gather around as persons and laugh about matters. Does positive energy have a sense of humor and a set of lungs and vocal cords? Enlighten me on these facts.
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Old 06-28-2007, 12:54 PM   #70
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Some religious broad told me that hell doesnt' exist but heaven does. I thought you couldn't have one without the other.
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Old 06-28-2007, 03:44 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Stickman
Some religious broad told me that hell doesnt' exist but heaven does. I thought you couldn't have one without the other.
Meh, not necessarily, it just depends on your view of the universe.
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Old 06-28-2007, 04:59 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman
Some religious broad told me that hell doesnt' exist but heaven does. I thought you couldn't have one without the other.
You consider that Hell in the modern sense is only around a Thousand years old. Which means it's only about half as old as the Christian religion itself.

For thousands of years, there was Heaven without Hell.
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Old 06-28-2007, 05:23 PM   #73
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I'm just waiting for Ragnarok, personally. But anyway, about the steroids thing: no-one, unless i missed it, mentioned Edge. He, in my eyes, is (despite the small issue of being a heel, and sleeping with matt hardy's girlfriend (although it WAS matt hardy, so whatever)) a good role model for kids. He's blatantly not on steroids, (apart from when he injured his neck, but that was for healing purposes) and he's such a nice bloke outside of wrestling as well.



It's possible i just made my own argument redundant there
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Old 06-28-2007, 06:02 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Slow
I'm just waiting for Ragnarok, personally. But anyway, about the steroids thing: no-one, unless i missed it, mentioned Edge. He, in my eyes, is (despite the small issue of being a heel, and sleeping with matt hardy's girlfriend (although it WAS matt hardy, so whatever)) a good role model for kids. He's blatantly not on steroids, (apart from when he injured his neck, but that was for healing purposes) and he's such a nice bloke outside of wrestling as well.



It's possible i just made my own argument redundant there

Are you a close friend of him or what?

Also, anytime you here of a tragedy like this the first thing people say, "He was such a nice person I would never expect this out of him."
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Old 06-28-2007, 07:44 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow
I'm just waiting for Ragnarok, personally. But anyway, about the steroids thing: no-one, unless i missed it, mentioned Edge. He, in my eyes, is (despite the small issue of being a heel, and sleeping with matt hardy's girlfriend (although it WAS matt hardy, so whatever)) a good role model for kids. He's blatantly not on steroids, (apart from when he injured his neck, but that was for healing purposes) and he's such a nice bloke outside of wrestling as well.



It's possible i just made my own argument redundant there
If he's not on steroids, why does he still have more or less the same build as the "recovery" period?

By the way, I'd wager more people than you'd expect are on steroids. Since, you know, not everyone's aiming for "brock Lesnar."
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Old 06-29-2007, 01:35 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Stickman
Some religious broad told me that hell doesnt' exist but heaven does.
Tell her to tune into Spike TV 9pm on Thursdays.
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Old 06-29-2007, 12:41 PM   #77
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Good topic.

IMO, this world would be a better place if people looked for Heroes in their everyday lives. Children should be role modeling themselves after the people working their fingers to the bone to put a roof over there head, cloths on their back and food on their tables. They should be quoting things learned in school from their teachers, not catchphrases from cartoonish bulked up Entertainers or Professional Athletes.

How we have become so obsessed with other peoples lives who most of us will never even meet, let alone know...is totally beyond me. It's even sad to hear things like people on ECW (so I heard) chanting things like "WE WANT BENOIT!" Seriously, what is wrong with people? Are we so selfish that we value ourselves being entertained over the value of human life? What are going through peoples heads? "Yeah, it's a little sad about him murdering his wife and son, then killing himself...but what I'm really sad about is that he wil no longer be here to entertain ME!"

To a certain extent, I'm guilty of the same feelings as well. I think that's why this whole thing has hit me so hard, because it's made me analyze my own priorities in life. Why does this bother me so much? Yes, the loss of 3 lives is tragic...but why do I feel so justified in throwing my speculated opinions around about a man's character who I've seen on TV for over a decade...BUT NEVER EVEN MET. And why are people more concerned with how this is going to affect the Wrestling Industry over finding out the truth of what happened in this tragedy. The loss of actual human lives seems to take a back seat to a variety of different priorities. "I'm mad at Benoit because this is a huge blow to wrestling!" Come on now, doesn't that seem a little absurd? God forbid you think of the loss of 3 lives before you are concerned with someone damaging an entertainment outlet for your own selfish life.

Things we run to for entertainment escapes, such as wrestling...we are so quick to defend and fight for to the bitter end. Why? Would it really be so bad if Wrestling came to an end? Is it so bad that we as people would have to do something as far fetched as, oh I don't know...live our own lives on Monday, Tuesday's, Thursday's and Sundays? I've loved wrestling my whole life and I don't think that will ever fade away. But I don't feel comfortable right now in my own skin knowing that I selfishly am angry at the fact that I will never be able to enjoy Chris Benoit on my TV screen...and that takes priority at times to the thoughts I have of the 3 lives that were lost. "Damn you Benoit for tarnishing your legacy and preventing me from enjoying your past matches and career! I can never again watch a DVD with you in it!" I hate that I think that briefly, rather than "Damn you Benoit for killing your wife and child." God forbid I use that time I'd be sitting on my ass watching a Benoit DVD or match and do something constructive with my life. Spend time with my girlfriend, call my parents, hang out with friends, etc.

It's easy to take the easy road and lose yourself in entertainment outlets such as wrestling, movies, TV, comedy and the like...but at some point you have to put your own life into perspective. Hell, being an entertainer myself I'm torn. I love people coming out to clubs and wanting to have a few drinks and laugh at some comedy...but I don't want you out watching me instead of spending time with your own children. This to me is where the whole process starts off, parents constantly pawning off their kids selfishly to a baby sitter so they can go off and "entertain themselves." Of course kids are gonna drift off and idolize people they see on TV. They become more familiar with the faces on TV than their own parents sometimes. The media chooses who to glorify and put in the public eye. I find it appauling in our society that a golfer can spend 4 days walking around and hitting a goddamn ball and take home a bigger paycheck that Sunday than most teachers &/or people that actually contribute something to improving society will ever make in their entire lives!

Of course kids would rather be like Tiger Woods than their own father who is a Janitor at the local school. These false idols and overpaid celebrities and athletes are turned into Gods by the media and that's the path we show to kids. "Be like Mike." Not, "Be like your hardworking Mom or Dad." Society is so quick to and seems to THRIVE off rewarding celebrities for allowing them to escape their own lives by providing endless entertainment escapes...just by the sheer fact of allowing us to sit on our asses to do so, rather than find an escape through living life itself.

Will this ever change? Probably not. My hat's off to any parents reading this, because I don't have kids and I can't comprehend what an incredible responsibility that is. I'm not saying I can do a better job than anyone out there, but my dreams for having children are simple. I'm going try my best to insure when they come home from school, the first thing they want to do is give me a hug instead of going to the couch and turning on the TV.

I need to start with turning the TV off myself.
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Old 06-29-2007, 01:01 PM   #78
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Good job Arnold.

I agree that heroes should be found elsewhere and everything you said.

But one thing I could add too is that aspiring to be like Tiger Woods is much much better than aspiring to be a fictional character who you know nothing aabout other than his in ring persona. Like fuck, pro wrestlers often times don't even go by their real name. Steve Austin is a hero whether he should be or not, but come on, that's not even his name. Same with Shawn Michaels. I'd love to be as good as those guys but they are fictional characters.

At least movie stars play fictional characters but are always interviewed as the person they are. The only time you see a wrestler not in character is on Off the Record on TSN. Idolizing people on tv is one thing, but for "grown ups" like us on the board to be pissed off and shit is lame.
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Old 06-29-2007, 01:27 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman
Good job Arnold.

I agree that heroes should be found elsewhere and everything you said.

But one thing I could add too is that aspiring to be like Tiger Woods is much much better than aspiring to be a fictional character who you know nothing aabout other than his in ring persona. Like fuck, pro wrestlers often times don't even go by their real name. Steve Austin is a hero whether he should be or not, but come on, that's not even his name. Same with Shawn Michaels. I'd love to be as good as those guys but they are fictional characters.

At least movie stars play fictional characters but are always interviewed as the person they are. The only time you see a wrestler not in character is on Off the Record on TSN. Idolizing people on tv is one thing, but for "grown ups" like us on the board to be pissed off and shit is lame.
Yeah, it's also unfortunate that the only time it becomes public with what their real name is and who they are as a real person, is when their life comes to a tragic early end. That's got to be such a toll, living your life in a profession that thrives on keeping your true identity behind a curtain. I can see how to some, reality becomes scued with the persona. Making a relationship work, raising a family and everyone being happy in that little bubble at home must be so incredibly difficult, if not impossible. The demands on their bodies, their minds, their time definitely don't seem worth the paycheck and fame IMO. I honestly don't know how they do it. I can look at myself honestly and say that I couldn't. If I tried, I'd be just another tragic story myself.

When you put it all out on paper, it seems even more ridiculous to idolize these people, because the idolization, money and fame is what fuels most of them to a tragic end. We as fans seem to just discard them when we're through, then move on to the next. Almost like a sadistic box of Kleenex.

I guess as a wrestler, if that is the passion you are born with though, you don't have much choice but to ride it out. I'd be curious to ask any of the deceased if they thought it was all worth it. To them it may be, but to their children it may be a different story. Wow, what an ironic viscious circle of life that is huh? The thing you're passionate at and what you are born to do to provide the best life that you possibly can for your family...also seems destined to take you away from them so soon.
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Old 06-29-2007, 02:14 PM   #80
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On the topic of where Benoit went after his death.....

He was Canadian. He went to the place all Canadians go when they die.....
Last edited by Felipewcw; 06-29-2007 at 02:29 PM.
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