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Old 04-28-2008, 08:14 PM   #41
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This has nothing to do with the thread, but I'll ask here anyways - is HBK scheduled to take any time off soon? RAW is in DC on 7/28 and I'm considering going if HBK makes an appearance. Just didn't know if there were any plans for him to get a break anytime soon.
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:15 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
The wrestlers are lazy, he writers are yesmen, and the management are retards/
The wrestlers get lazy (mainly) through disillusionment and the writers are yes men because their jobs depend on it, meaning the latter is the root of all WWE's problems. And it starts at the very top with the dictatorial and out of touch McMahon family. Unfortunately, this is something which will never change.

Re: Jericho. He has lacked spark since his return, but in the currently heavily scripted world of WWE where deviation from the plan is a fatal sin and balls are constantly on the line, where politicians have their knives out waiting for any opportunity to pounce, it does not bode well for any wrestler to go beyond the words and actions written down on the page for them. Not neccessarily defending Jericho per se, but the whole roster bar the tippy top crew... they can only work with what they are given, and you can't polish a lump of shit.
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:22 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Class Act Carl View Post
The wrestlers get lazy (mainly) through disillusionment and the writers are yes men because their jobs depend on it, meaning the latter is the root of all WWE's problems. And it starts at the very top with the dictatorial and out of touch McMahon family. Unfortunately, this is something which will never change.

Re: Jericho. He has lacked spark since his return, but in the currently heavily scripted world of WWE where deviation from the plan is a fatal sin and balls are constantly on the line, where politicians have their knives out waiting for any opportunity to pounce, it does not bode well for any wrestler to go beyond the words and actions written down on the page for them. Not neccessarily defending Jericho per se, but the whole roster bar the tippy top crew... they can only work with what they are given, and you can't polish a lump of shit.
Hit the nail on the head imo. Jericho was 'screwed' out of the WWE title, and yet in todays storyline terms of 100 rematches for screwed Wrestlers, he hasn't mentioned it since. He's IC champ and doesn't even defend the title. Not Jericho's fault that he's in the role of game show host and referee.

His match with MPV was good imo, his match with Punk wasn't. I can't understand why they didn't give Punk the win over Hardy before his suspension and Jericho the MITB.

I mean, have we ever had a Jericho/Taker feud? I don't recall it.

The writers are pretty much clueless, which is why I'm surprised that Regal even won KOTR.

Pretty random and fragmented thoughts, but its late.
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:41 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addy2hotty View Post
The writers are pretty much clueless, which is why I'm not surprised that Regal won KOTR.
Fixed.

But yeah, it's no good ripping on Jericho (and Carlito, and Shelton, and all the rest of the so-called "lazy" crew) for not producing the goods when they're given a pile of wank to work with.

No more than you could blame an actor for a film being absolutely abysmal. If the script is abysmal, the premise is abysmal, the support cast is abysmal and in some cases the actor has been horribly miscast (say Jack Black as James Bond, or Samuel L. Jackson as The Joker in a Batman movie) then it should come as no surprise if the movie sucks even if the lead acts his heart out in it.

I'm not saying they deserve NO blame for not trying harder to turn the lemons into delicious lemonade, but when you're banging your head against a brick wall 365 days a year, it must be pretty easy to become disheartened. When you're told you need to "step up your game", yet every step of your 3 minute match is pre-planned, the interviews are scripted word-for-word and you're having no leeway to bring anything of your own into the equation, what the fuck are they supposed to do?
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:17 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Class Act Carl View Post
The wrestlers get lazy (mainly) through disillusionment and the writers are yes men because their jobs depend on it, meaning the latter is the root of all WWE's problems. And it starts at the very top with the dictatorial and out of touch McMahon family. Unfortunately, this is something which will never change.

Re: Jericho. He has lacked spark since his return, but in the currently heavily scripted world of WWE where deviation from the plan is a fatal sin and balls are constantly on the line, where politicians have their knives out waiting for any opportunity to pounce, it does not bode well for any wrestler to go beyond the words and actions written down on the page for them. Not neccessarily defending Jericho per se, but the whole roster bar the tippy top crew... they can only work with what they are given, and you can't polish a lump of shit.

Well,m of course it starts at the top, but if you can't be professional enough to do your job, part of the blame is still yours.
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:25 PM   #46
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That's why I said
Quote:
Originally Posted by Class Act Carl View Post
I'm not saying they deserve NO blame for not trying harder to turn the lemons into delicious lemonade, but when you're banging your head against a brick wall 365 days a year, it must be pretty easy to become disheartened.
You're right, but do you really think even if Jericho was at his peak (call it WCW 1998, WWF 2000, whatever you may believe was his prime year) it would have made any difference to his position on the card today? The answer is most likely no more so than it ever did then.
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Old 04-29-2008, 09:20 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Class Act Carl View Post
Fixed.

But yeah, it's no good ripping on Jericho (and Carlito, and Shelton, and all the rest of the so-called "lazy" crew) for not producing the goods when they're given a pile of wank to work with.
Shelton's not lazy, he just gets sloppy in ring. Carlito has been doing better to be fair.
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Old 04-29-2008, 09:42 AM   #48
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It's deffinatly a double edged sword with Jericho. He is lazy, deffinatly more so on TV, from what I hear, but if you are given 5 minutes, with a shitly written finish, then it must be hard to motivate yourself to perform 100%. Not to mention what Carl said about most of the talent being shite anyway.

That said though, he gets paid a very good wage, and should put maximum effort in.

And the main point, the one I see as the crucial one. A wrestler who is supposedly one of the finest at his craft, should be able to carry pretty much ANYONE to a good quality wrestling match. Simple as that, as long as the other guy does as he's told, and has a few limbs, Chris Jericho should be able to make him look like a star. And himself for that matter.

He has his hardcore defenders, as can be seen in this thread. But not one of you are really saying he has been that great, just throwing out the excuses.
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:35 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabien Barthez View Post
It's deffinatly a double edged sword with Jericho. He is lazy, deffinatly more so on TV, from what I hear, but if you are given 5 minutes, with a shitly written finish, then it must be hard to motivate yourself to perform 100%. Not to mention what Carl said about most of the talent being shite anyway.

That said though, he gets paid a very good wage, and should put maximum effort in.

Not to mention, he's supposed to be a professional. And as you go on to point out, he's supposed to be an artist. A Michaelangelo of the Mat. He's supposed to be able to get a great match out of anyone, but when he doesn't, his defenders instead say "Well, look what he had to work with!"

I don't know how anyone can delude themselves into thinking Jericho's anywhere near the level he was or could be.
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:47 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
Not to mention, he's supposed to be a professional. And as you go on to point out, he's supposed to be an artist. A Michaelangelo of the Mat. He's supposed to be able to get a great match out of anyone, but when he doesn't, his defenders instead say "Well, look what he had to work with!"

I don't know how anyone can delude themselves into thinking Jericho's anywhere near the level he was or could be.
It is even more confusing when you say look at who he had to work with and it is CM Punk or another smark darling.
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Old 04-29-2008, 11:22 AM   #51
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Oh, but his matches with Punk were brilliant! The crowd was on fire...
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:03 PM   #52
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...as in a marshmellow on fire
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Old 04-29-2008, 07:00 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volare View Post
...as in a marshmellow on fire
Well, they had a rather lively dueling chant going on for about 20 seconds on Raw the one time I saw them. Too bad it was only like 30 people or so, and didn't last. And that was in a smart city.
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