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Old 05-22-2008, 10:02 AM   #41
Fabien Barthez
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Anyone who questions their talent, is a simpleton. They are a good band, just clearly not to everyones taste. Whatever. They are good musicians though.
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:25 AM   #42
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LOL. Oh Man, Fabe, that was hilarious.

...Wait...You were serious, weren't you?
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:34 AM   #43
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i used to rock the fuck out to korn.
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:55 AM   #44
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What makes them untalented then? The fact they were a cornerstone in a breaking genre? The original drum patterns, that JD writes, that are as good as anything any other rock band puts out? Fieldy being one of the most intrquette bass players in metal? Munky creating a guitar sound, pretty much unlike any other around?

You choose, I will ignore the answer anyway.


I mean, I have worked with loads of actual, recording, working musicians. I don't know if any of them would discount Korn as untalented.

But what would they know, ya know.... compared to you?
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:59 AM   #45
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you forget that kane knight knows all and is never wrong.
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:15 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabien Barthez View Post
What makes them untalented then? The fact they were a cornerstone in a breaking genre? The original drum patterns, that JD writes, that are as good as anything any other rock band puts out? Fieldy being one of the most intrquette bass players in metal? Munky creating a guitar sound, pretty much unlike any other around?

You chose, I will ignore the answer anyway.


I mean, I have worked with loads of actual, recording, working musicians. I don't know if any of them would discount Korn as untalented.

But what would they know, ya know.... compared to you?
Wow. Talk about your strawman. I didn't know you'd get that butthurt over it. But to have to lie to defend a strawman because you're that offended...

If I placate you by pretending that the things you just said were all true...Will you stop whining? Can we go back to being friends again?
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:17 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
you forget that kane knight knows all and is never wrong.
Well, he's disguising that well in here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
Wow. Talk about your strawman. I didn't know you'd get that butthurt over it. But to have to lie to defend a strawman because you're that offended...

If I placate you by pretending that the things you just said were all true...Will you stop whining? Can we go back to being friends again?
An 'intelligent' man who cannot seem to differenciate between (misplaced) opinion and fact.

Unless you are actually THAT egotistical?
Last edited by Fabien Barthez; 05-22-2008 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:24 AM   #48
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By the way, it took like six records and nearly a decade for the bassist to learn how to play clean notes. It took me six weeks. I may not be an intricate bassist, but I know how to actually play and hold a note.

Founding a genre that doesn't really entail anything, such as nu metal, is not an accomplishment. Especially when said genre is widely accepted as a catchall for people who couldn't play real metal. It would be an accomplishment if it had been something where there wasn't such disparity within the "founding groups" or even within the definitions of the genre. They made it up so they could sell artists that would have been assraped by metal fans.

Original drum patterns...Ummm...Yeah. Are you high? Definitely not as good as any other rock band puts out. You could chalk that up to opinion, but I listen to music from a technical standpoint as well as entertainment and musicianship. But the "original" line is just...Wrong.

Oh look. Creating anew guitar sound. Another lie. No wonder you will ignore the answers...They don't hold up to any scrutiny.

But if I ignore all that and pretend it's not ironic that you called me a simpleton, will you still be my friend?
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:33 AM   #49
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The drumming is mostly more original than the flat 4/4 coming out of everything else, especially in the middle 90's when Korn took off.

The guitar did sound unique to the Korn sound.

I don't even know what you are talking about regarding the bassist.


They still aren't untalented, no matter how you butter it. As far as details, its all opinion. My argument here is you just state something you don't enjoy as talentless, and put it out like fact, not opinion.


We will be friends for ever, man. Just bickering away in our old age, on rocking chairs, on a deck in the middle of Nowhere, USA.
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:35 AM   #50
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listen i loved korn as much as the next guy but they most certainly were not original or unique in any sense.
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:40 AM   #51
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If you can recognise the sound of their songs as Korn songs, without knowing for sure in advance, then I would argue that they do have a degree of a unique sound.... The same can be said for most of the bands who seem to offer nothing, but you can tell it's them within 2 seconds of hearing it on the radio.
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:45 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
listen i loved korn as much as the next guy but they most certainly were not original or unique in any sense.
And when the lynch pin of your argument is based on their originality and creativity....
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:47 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabien Barthez View Post
If you can recognise the sound of their songs as Korn songs, without knowing for sure in advance, then I would argue that they do have a degree of a unique sound.... The same can be said for most of the bands who seem to offer nothing, but you can tell it's them within 2 seconds of hearing it on the radio.
To borrow a line from the Incredibles, if everyone is super...Then no-one is.

If the same can be said of almost anyone who has nothing to offer, then it is not anything that really constitutes a feather in the cap of Korn.
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:50 AM   #54
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No, my argument was they are not untalented, and your opinion isn't fact.

Your argument was that they aren't original or creative.



And who's talking about a feather in the cap? I was just making a valid point. Also it goes without saying that the bands you do feel have something to offer are unique in sound.
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:59 AM   #55
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It's a valid point, but so is "They have a guitarist." Doesn't change how totally useless the point is.

Most of your counterargument went on to talk about how creative and unique they were. that's the only, and I repeat only reason I started to refute it. Don't lie, it's unbecoming. You were bringing up their sound and style as part of your strawman as to how they were talented after all. Why blame me because you brought up shit that was so plainly bullshit? Or, alternatively, empty and useless (You can pck them out on the radio...Just like everyone else)?

You spewed bullshit about being a groundbreaking artist in a new genre, also worthless. Very little of what you said actually had to do with their talent, if you're now trying to separate creativity and individuality from the argument (Though, again, you brought them up, and you say your argument is based on their talent).

So...Stripped away, you don't have much of an affirmative argument made for talent.
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Old 05-22-2008, 12:11 PM   #56
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you don't have one the other way. Which is why you chose to disect my points, instead of telling me why you are right in your opinion. which I still hold to. They are creative and talented. In my eyes, and millions others. I am not pretending to speak on behalf of other people here, but these are my opinions. Nu Metal happened, and for a few years, it was massive. Kickstarting that is a huge achievement. the critisism of Nu Metal being a poor mans metal were always going to happen... but who cares? Listen to something. Like it, or don't. It is meant to be what it sounds like. You can talk it into oblivion, but it will still sound the same.

So tell me why they are talentless?
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Old 05-22-2008, 12:17 PM   #57
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Old 05-22-2008, 01:52 PM   #58
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I don't believe anyone has been able to prove the Korn is not awful. BDC wins.
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:00 PM   #59
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The original comment was intentionally simplistic. Saying that you don't need any sort of talent, that is. However, I've heard Korn live on several occasions, including boots my friends have played for me, and they have trouble with rhythm and even keeping in tune live. You know, simplistic stuff.

Beyond that, their bassist did take ten years or so to learn how to play clean. Already mentioned that.

But you know, you put forth really stupid comments in place of an argument for them actually being talented. Now you're complaining that I essentially "took the bait" and addressed what you said, which was ridiculously stupid. You can complain I'm confusing facts and opinions, but I'm not. I'm looking at this mechanically, whereas your argument seems to be "I like them, so they're talented, unique, and innovative."

Really, it's great that they can be cleaned up in the studio, which appears to involve a lot of post production, and it's great that you like them. I own everything up to Issues, so it's not like I'm saying that I hate the band. But You're either playing with a looser definition of talented than I am, or your intentionally blinding yourself based on liking the band in question. From your comments on them being unique and groundbreaking, I'd place you in rabid fanboy territory.

And that's fine, except you're trying to argue fanaticism against realiy.
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:03 PM   #60
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I can see, I can see, I'm going blind.
I can see, I can see, I'm going blind.
I can see, I can see, I'm going blind.
I can see, I can see, I'm going blind.
I can see, I can see, I'm going blind.
I can see, I can see, I'm going blind.
I can see, I can see, I'm going blind.
I can see, I can see, I'm going blind.
I can see, I can see, I'm going blind.

*sniff* Innovative lyrics, too...
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:02 PM   #61
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I don't really like them that much. I still stand by all I've said, no matter how many paragraphs of self mitigation and disection of every word written you write.
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:18 PM   #62
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used to like them. i even kind of liked a few things on issues. after that i couldn't give a shit less though. that y'all wanna single thing was the biggest pile of bollocks i've ever heard. and jonathon david looks fucking ridiculous these days, what with going bald and still having huge dreadlocks. wanker.
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Old 05-23-2008, 09:40 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabien Barthez View Post
I don't really like them that much. I still stand by all I've said, no matter how many paragraphs of self mitigation and disection of every word written you write.
Yes. You stand by it, no matter how badly your argument is decimated. Good for you, I guess?
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Old 05-23-2008, 09:43 AM   #64
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Also, if you don't like them that much, why are you making up some patently ridiculous shit like in their defense? It's dumb even if you're a rabid fanboy, but if you don't even like them that much...Why?
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:57 AM   #65
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So you could disect every word written.

Duh.

Frankly, you talk too much.
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Old 05-23-2008, 03:26 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastardikai View Post
The best Korn song ever was "Falling to Pieces."

Too bad that it was actually done by Faith No More, and was used as the template for EVERY Korn song.
For the clod who keeps saying Korn is "Unique."

Why do you think Mike Bordin (sp?) played for Korn while their original guy was out? Because the Korn drummer plays EXACTLY like him. Guess the band Mike played in? Faith No More.

Also, the shitty bassist's insistence on slapping is kind of a homage to FNM's bassist (who played that style as well as clean.)

Biggest bastardization comes from the guitarists (now guitarist) who can't even string Jim Martin's guitars, let alone play as well as him. What's the point of having 7-string guitars when you only play two of them?

And Davis doesn't even pretend to have the vocal range of Mike Patton, who is perhaps one of the best singers in Rock.

In essence: Faith No More - Good Singer - good guitar players + track suits = Korn.
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Old 05-23-2008, 03:44 PM   #67
Ninti the Mad
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I like a couple of their songs. Its nothing meaningful but it sounds alright when you are in the mood for angry music I guess you can call it. And, yes, the drumming is pretty awesome which is something I look for in music.

HOWEVER, ROLLING STONES AWFUL?????? BULLLLLLLLLLLSHITTTTTTT
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